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Why are they lower clocked? Isn't that bad? How does it happen that further revisions do worse?
Man, I hope this does not turn out like the Polaris 11 and GTX 960 comparison B.S. shown last year. I say we will have to really wait to see the real chip in a real motherboard tested before we can make any semi sure decisions on buying Zen. I also hope their power targets are actual too - a good mITX motherboard with great performing Zen (no gpu!) could give AMD a leg up on that platform - packing more cores being taking up by the internal gpu that gets unused since a superior graphics card is used can give AMD a good advantage for small more powerful builds. That is if Zen is actually powerful.
Well I just built a mITX system using Fractal Node case (10.2L), I5 6500 and have coming a GTX EGVA 1060 SC coming. The GPU in the cpu is pointless other then a potential backup if the discrete GPU dies or has issues. I rather that part of the CPU just have more cores and no GPU. So Zen offers something unique on the SFF platform if it performs well and is not too power hungry. My Nano SFF system uses a I7 6700K another wasted space gpu in the cpu. So basically saying AMD could have an area in SFF which will be more useful then Intel. Still depends upon performance and price. Intel does have the E processors and there are available mITX that support them but some significant $ goes with them as well.Internal GPU when disabled is dark silicon. Very nice for cooling. You can get HEDT MiniITX boards. So Zen offers nothing new there. Assuming it can even compete with LGA1151 to begin with.
Well I just built a mITX system using Fractal Node case (10.2L), I5 6500 and have coming a GTX EGVA 1060 SC coming. The GPU in the cpu is pointless other then a potential backup if the discrete GPU dies or has issues. I rather that part of the CPU just have more cores and no GPU. So Zen offers something unique on the SFF platform if it performs well and is not too power hungry. My Nano SFF system uses a I7 6700K another wasted space gpu in the cpu. So basically saying AMD could have an area in SFF which will be more useful then Intel. Still depends upon performance and price. Intel does have the E processors and there are available mITX that support them but some significant $ goes with them as well.
Hi all! I went into the forest recently and birds have tweeted something again. They spoke about 2 new SKUs that have just hit the post-boxes of the mainboard manufacturers. They are both A0 revisions and Engineering Samples, so there is no improvement since my last post.
The first one is an 8-core design with AMD's HT implementation and it's got a 3150 MHz base clock, it's all-core turbo is 3300 MHz and the max turbo for 1 core is 3600 Mhz. Yes, here are some improvements regarding the previous 8-core SKU under the same TDP envelope.
The second SKU is a 4-core one with AMD's HT. It's got a 65W TDP and the base clock is still 2900 MHz. All-core turbo is 3100 MHz, max turbo is 3400 MHz. I don't know if it's only an SKU for testing mainboards or something is not okay with the clock-wattage correlation. I mean on higher clocks the 4-core SKU steps into the 95W TDP envelope, AMD can't keep the wattage low. Maybe GloFo's 14nm process needs some maturing... Frankly I don't have a clue what's in the background.
Retail AM4 mainboards are under production. The whole platform will be ready to have a paper-launch at the end of the year with a real availability in February of 2017. Performance wise the Zen uarch will be around Haswell and Broadwell (except for FMA), it seems it won't catch Skylake clock for clock. It's not a big deal, but if the clocks can't go higher until the start it won't fulfill the expectations. And we all know that expectations in this case are very high...
yea but tops out at 3.6 seems more than believable on top of what we have already heard anyway (not to mention their latest gpus dont give much reason to think otherwise) well see but i wouldnt be shockedcrosspost from Overclock.net: [Anand] New Zen engineering sample numbers - 8 core tops out at 3.6GHz
A poster on anandtech who leaked previous stuff has more:
New Zen microarchitecture details
rumor....bag of salt...remember.
yea but tops out at 3.6 seems more than believable on top of what we have already heard anyway (not to mention their latest gpus dont give much reason to think otherwise) well see but i wouldnt be shocked
For a lot of [H]ardOCP people I don't think stock clocks really matter that much anyway. I mean the highest clocked Sandy Bridge at launch (2600K) was 3.4-3.8ghz, but most of them could hit upper 4ghz range and some even hit 5ghz. There's no way to know for sure until it's actually available of course but "low" stock clocks aren't necessarily a disaster for enthusiasts if they have lots of headroom. Lower clock speeds on a smaller process should help AMD in the power/heat department as well, which is what has really been killing them trying to get design wins in laptops and pre-builts.
True, but the low base clock is another indication that Zen is potentially very power hungry north of 3 GHz, like some of us have expected for some time. This explains why a higher turbo is allowed for a single core, where the max turbo for all cores is "only" 3.3 GHz.
This farther implies Zen won't OC well. This is pretty much matching my expectations so far.
Demons you say, hmmm I better watch that. Really I rather have more cores in that space instead of an inactive CPU gpu. In other words a 95w 8core/16 thread processor vice anemic 4core/8threaded one. Rather simple concept and no demons.Quicksync for example?
But I dont see your issue with the IGP die area, seems you are fixated on it and somehow trying to demonize it. Zen isn't unique, Zen just doesn't have an IGP to begin with so dont try and glorify it. Instead you can focus on the "moar cores" that may or may not be useful. One thing is certain tho, the 1-4 core performance will be lower with Zen, a lot lower.
Demons you say, hmmm I better watch that. Really I rather have more cores in that space instead of an inactive CPU gpu. In other words a 95w 8core/16 thread processor vice anemic 4core/8threaded one. Rather simple concept and no demons.
Past practice (Phenom II 955, 965, etc.. and FX-8150, 8320, 8350, etc...) You really think they're gonna come out with one CPU and that's it???
About half wrong or right however you want to put it .
The problem is that even if it would be power hungry (north of 3 ghz) would it scale enough. Lets say something silly: Zen would clock to 5 ghz and use 300Watt would that be acceptable to "many" overclockers , my estimated guess would be yes , as long as the performance scales the extra power is "trivial" . That was the problem with Bulldozer even if you got it to 5 GHZ in older DX11 games it would barely scale.
For the people who can't or won't overclock what would they care as long as stock performance is good for them at the rated price performance level.
I hope the engineers do some hand tuning for Zen and not just rely on the standard optimizing tools that net them a small percentage most times. They really need this to be a winner.
Have we heard anything regarding AM3+ cooler compatibility? I think I remember seeing the mounting position would be identical, but not the depth?
40% increase in single threaded applications over the latest bulldozer offering.
People will buy it cause AMD fanboys are like that I think alot of them switched to Intel since 2011.
Same. Waiting on my 1070 and 1TB SSD currently. Have all my other parts (6700k, 16gb ram, gene mobo, fractal node matx case, h100i).I couldnt wait, grabbed a 6800k this weekend. I hope AMD does well. This will mean my next upgrade will be a ZEN+ or 2011-v3 8 core since intel will bring the price down due to age/competition.
Crap. I misread the year. Oh well.Zen APUs are Q4 2017 or so. And for a laptop you are likely into 2018.
we will have very similar systems. I got the 6800k at 4ghz, evga ftw d 1070, 32gb 2666mhz, gigabyte phoenix mobo, noctua cpu cooler. bf1/dx11 butter smooth 3440x1440 @ 60fps.Same. Waiting on my 1070 and 1TB SSD currently. Have all my other parts (6700k, 16gb ram, gene mobo, fractal node matx case, h100i).
The first one is an 8-core design with AMD's HT implementation and it's got a 3150 MHz base clock, it's all-core turbo is 3300 MHz and the max turbo for 1 core is 3600 Mhz. Yes, here are some improvements regarding the previous 8-core SKU under the same TDP envelope.
The second SKU is a 4-core one with AMD's HT. It's got a 65W TDP and the base clock is still 2900 MHz. All-core turbo is 3100 MHz, max turbo is 3400 MHz. I don't know if it's only an SKU for testing mainboards or something is not okay with the clock-wattage correlation. I mean on higher clocks the 4-core SKU steps into the 95W TDP envelope, AMD can't keep the wattage low. Maybe GloFo's 14nm process needs some maturing... Frankly I don't have a clue what's in the background.
GF 14lpp had some metal layer defects that hurt performance/power until just recently, very possible we already have a1 and a2 revision Zen chips, their is a new revision of polaris 10 that is 50% better on power consumption, very likely same situation for zen.
GF 14lpp had some metal layer defects that hurt performance/power until just recently, very possible we already have a1 and a2 revision Zen chips, their is a new revision of polaris 10 that is 50% better on power consumption, very likely same situation for zen.