School Punishing Students For Refusing RFID Tracking

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Zarathustra[H];1039220683 said:
Freedom and liberty are not just worth it, but ESSENTIAL...

...for adults.

Kids and teens need to be monitored every second, and giving them any level of privacy is just asking for trouble.


When the kids are in school, the teachers and school officials are the authority figures. They are - in a way - the substitute parents.
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...IF the actual parents want them to be. You seem to be assuming that just because children need guidance and monitoring, that automatically gives government schools a mandate to track them, without the individual consent of parents. Combined with the points others have made about truancy laws and forced schooling, this is absolutely a violation of both children's and parents' rights.
 
With all the people complaining about government interference in education maybe the Republicans are right ... we should get rid of the public school system and let people go to private school like the rest of the world ... since I have had to use badges for access at work my entire career I don't think using that technology to help manage people in school would be that bad ... also people forget the upside ... if you require these badges to move around then unauthorized access to the school would also be detectable ;)
 
Mini-Me said:
...IF the actual parents want them to be. You seem to be assuming that just because children need guidance and monitoring, that automatically gives government schools a mandate to track them, without the individual consent of parents. Combined with the points others have made about truancy laws and forced schooling, this is absolutely a violation of both children's and parents' rights.
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I would also point out that, like everything else the state does, truancy laws are nothing but a racket designed to steal money from the hapless subjects.

Texas is particularly notorious for this; they make tens of millions of dollars a year in profit from truancy tickets (where you get fined $500 per day).
 
kbrickley said:
With all the people complaining about government interference in education maybe the Republicans are right ... we should get rid of the public school system and let people go to private school like the rest of the world ... since I have had to use badges for access at work my entire career I don't think using that technology to help manage people in school would be that bad ... also people forget the upside ... if you require these badges to move around then unauthorized access to the school would also be detectable ;)
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Yes, we should get rid of "public" schools because they are funded with stolen money.

There is a difference between a private place of employment and a "public" government run school. The former is voluntary, the latter, for most people, is not.
 
you know the best fix for this would be to give them all cell phones with unlimited texting. Use that for all of your tracking and attendance needs.
 
damicatz said:
Yes, we should get rid of "public" schools because they are funded with stolen money.

There is a difference between a private place of employment and a "public" government run school. The former is voluntary, the latter, for most people, is not.
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Be careful what you ask for ... I don't think we are currently the Police State you seem to think we are ... but if you create an uneducated underclass we might actually get there ;)

I think most, if not all, states allow home schooling so public school isn't mandatory except in those states with no home schooling requirement ... also taxes aren't stolen money :cool:
 
damicatz said:
I would also point out that, like everything else the state does, truancy laws are nothing but a racket designed to steal money from the hapless subjects.

Texas is particularly notorious for this; they make tens of millions of dollars a year in profit from truancy tickets (where you get fined $500 per day).
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Interesting.

I don't think they issue tickets for truancy in Massachusetts.

If your kid goes missing you earn yourself a date with the school resource officer though, and if that doesn't take care of the problem they might choose to refer the matter to social services.
 
Zarathustra[H];1039218993 said:
The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is our best explanation for the FACT of evolution. It has been tested and scrutinized for over 150 years, and is supported by all the relevant observations.
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Sounds good except for evolution has not been PROVEN as FACT.

To teach ANYTHING related to religious belief in a science class is absolute insanity. It doesn't matter what parents believe in.
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So, all of the ten commandments are insane?



NEVER teach any facet of religion as established fact, or even remotely elevate it to the same level of truth as established scientific paradigm.

If you do this, then you are no better than the Taliban.
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Really? I never knew that.

I always thought I was at least a little better than the Taliban, since I do not do the evil acts they do, like kill people they did not religiously agree with (including 14 yr old little girls and their friends), take child brides, mutilate little girls reproductive organs, etc...

On the other hand, Jesus was the most documented person in history, I am pretty sure we can count his existence as fact and we can expound on his teachings. I do not think he taught anything that was not morally or scientifically acceptable.

All 'estabilished scientific paradigm' is composed of nothing more than man made theory based on loose observations and assumptions to explain those observations. It is inherently flawed precisely because of this. Science is nothing more than an analogy of nature.
 
damicatz said:
Yes, we should get rid of "public" schools because they are funded with stolen money.

There is a difference between a private place of employment and a "public" government run school. The former is voluntary, the latter, for most people, is not.
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You need to get over your extremist views on taxation.

Taxation is a necessary evil.

None of us like to pay it, but it pays for absolutely crucial things for our society.

Even the founding fathers saw a need for taxation.

Even the original tea partiers realized that taxation was necessary.

Their point was no taxation without representation. So in other words, if government is going to tax me (which is OK) I get a say in how that money is spent (presumably through election).

At the time the colonies were not represented in British Parliament. The representation bit was the sticking point, not the taxation bit.

The Neo-tea partiers have misused the tea party reference to instead declare an all out war on necessary taxation, which is just plain wrong.
 
nutzo said:
+1
This is basic parenting 101.
How many time have you seen a young kid (like 3 or 4) yelling, screaming, or throwing/beaking things, and the parent basically ignores what is going on? .....
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How many times have you seen or heard of a parent disciplining a child in those same public places...and get arrested for it?

It's not just the parents, it's every adult, especially the people making the rules who have ignored thousands of years of time tested and proven child rearing methodologies in favor of a kindler gentler 'scientifically proven' don't hurt anyones feelings psychologist bullshit.

Having a child myself I realize this.
 
LOL I would politely oblige, and then put the card in my RFID cancelling/Faraday wallet. I have it on me...just can track me
 
BBA said:
How many times have you seen or heard of a parent disciplining a child in those same public places...and get arrested for it?

It's not just the parents, it's every adult, especially the people making the rules who have ignored thousands of years of time tested and proven child rearing methodologies in favor of a kindler gentler 'scientifically proven' don't hurt anyones feelings psychologist bullshit.

Having a child myself I realize this.
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There are more ways to discipline a child than immediately resorting to violence... :rolleyes:
 
Zarathustra[H];1039221554 said:
The Neo-tea partiers have misused the tea party reference to instead declare an all out war on necessary taxation, which is just plain wrong.
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I have never heard the term 'Neo-tea partiers' and I disagree with your 'tea' party reference analysis. The modern TEA party stands for TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY, has nothing to do with spilling 'tea' in boston (even though the tea was overtaxed way back then).

The war the TEA party has is against wasteful spending in the expansion of government and the stupidity of those governmental morons who believe they can 'make it all ok' by simply increasing taxes.
 
Zarathustra[H];1039221581 said:
There are more ways to discipline a child than immediately resorting to violence... :rolleyes:
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Ok, I definitely agree with you but are you trying to imply that I am calling for treating kids with violence?
 
Zarathustra[H];1039221581 said:
There are more ways to discipline a child than immediately resorting to violence... :rolleyes:
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As someone who was spanked as a child I agree. Whenever someone does something wrong I just reach for my gun and shoot them... being that physical violence is what I was taught to use to curtail bad behavior. As an adult and certainly as a child, I don't have the mental capacity to understand the difference between some temporary pain on my backside and actual physical violence.

Parents are much better off using verbal abuse instead!
 
Zarathustra[H];1039221581 said:
There are more ways to discipline a child than immediately resorting to violence... :rolleyes:
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Certainly, but there IS a different between disciplining and abusing.
 
c4v3man said:
As someone who was spanked as a child I agree. Whenever someone does something wrong I just reach for my gun and shoot them... being that physical violence is what I was taught to use to curtail bad behavior. As an adult and certainly as a child, I don't have the mental capacity to understand the difference between some temporary pain on my backside and actual physical violence.

Parents are much better off using verbal abuse instead!
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Ok...you made me chuckle...good job.
 
BBA said:
Sounds good except for evolution has not been PROVEN as FACT.
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Proven is a subjective term in the case of evolution but there is sufficient fossil evidence spanning billions of years to support the main supposition that complex life forms evolve from simpler forms and that natural and artificial selection change the overall nature of a given species over long periods of time. No competing "theory" has offered sufficient evidence to refute evolution or support an alternative theory

BBA said:
So, all of the ten commandments are insane?
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No, they are not insane but they are not the legal precedent that we follow in the USA. Our laws are based on them (and lots of other historical law systems) and they should be taught in that context but it wouldn't be appropriate for a public school to teach them as doctrine and certainly not as the "word of God".

BBA said:
All 'estabilished scientific paradigm' is composed of nothing more than man made theory based on loose observations and assumptions to explain those observations. It is inherently flawed precisely because of this. Science is nothing more than an analogy of nature.
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So you are saying that because nature seems to follow specific rules and we can determine those rules by observing nature then the whole process of observing and identifying rules (science) is not valid. If we lived in a random universe (which we apparently do not) then I would support your argument. However, since the universe we live in seems to be very orderly and follow rules reliably then I see nothing wrong with trying to observe the world and universe we live in to try and identify those rules and use them to our advantage ;)
 
BBA said:
I have never heard the term 'Neo-tea partiers' and I disagree with your 'tea' party reference analysis. The modern TEA party stands for TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY, has nothing to do with spilling 'tea' in boston (even though the tea was overtaxed way back then).

The war the TEA party has is against wasteful spending in the expansion of government and the stupidity of those governmental morons who believe they can 'make it all ok' by simply increasing taxes.
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The TEA party should have thought of that before letting their last guy fight two of the most expensive war in history on credit.
 
BBA said:
Ok, I definitely agree with you but are you trying to imply that I am calling for treating kids with violence?
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I didn't mean for reading much more into my comment than I actually wrote.

The only kind of punishment parents are going to find themselves arrested for, is violent punishment.
 
c4v3man said:
As someone who was spanked as a child I agree. Whenever someone does something wrong I just reach for my gun and shoot them... being that physical violence is what I was taught to use to curtail bad behavior. As an adult and certainly as a child, I don't have the mental capacity to understand the difference between some temporary pain on my backside and actual physical violence.

Parents are much better off using verbal abuse instead!
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I never suggested that spanking leads to violent crime later in life.

I have some concerns with corporeal punishment, though I'm not opposed to it in all circumstances. it has to be reserved for a last resort, when all attempts at reason, and punishment through taking away privileges has failed. When it is used, it also has to be explained to the child for what it is.

"I am doing this thing I really don't want to do, because your behavior is going down the wrong track, and because I love you as your parent, and it is my responsibility to make sure your behavior improves so you are not harmed, or grow up to be a bad person.

If the message is "I'm hitting you because I'm pissed you disobeyed me", that most definitely sends the wrong message. It may not necessarily turn kids violent later in life, but it does teach them the wrong life lesson.

Punishments must never come from a place of anger.

Rather than teach them to be good, well behaved people, it teaches them not to get caught.
 
Ducman69 said:
Children don't have rights.

Children in public schools have even less rights.

At my school, we had specific ways we were allowed to even get our hair cut, it could not be dyed, and we had to wear uniforms.

Somehow I survived, and on my free-time out of school I can wear fishnet stalkings, spike my hair with blue wax, and dry hump vending machines to my hearts desire... just not in class.
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Coke or Pepsi?

Our workplace is going for fingerprint scanners for a time clock system. Damn, some people are PARANOID! No way in hell do they want their fingerprint out there on a computer. I told one guy that the only people that will know will be HR and their parole officer. He asked how I knew... Oops. :|

While I have an RFID badge for work, it's a security measure to let me in certain areas (All of them). I don't really see a need for schools to have them. What's the point? Just to see where you're at in school?
 
one swell foop said:
I have an ex that grew up in Austin, she would be 25 now. She learned about evolution when she read evolution of the species while she was in high school on her own. They were teaching about how god made the earth a couple thousand years ago. She privately asked her teacher about evolution and was told that she could not discuss that on school grounds. The teacher agreed to meet her at a coffee shop after school where they talked about it and she recommended some books for my ex to read to actually learn things.

Fuck Texas schools.

Because remember, every time you don't brainwash a young person into being christian and educationally behind the other first world countries, god rips the wings off an angel.
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I went to a South Texas high school in the late 80's early 90's and we learned about evolution just fine. Actually the Bible had little to do with school life in general. Well this was true in my neck of the woods.

Regarding the "indoctrination" bit, I guess the only thing I can relate that to would be Texas History.
 
damicatz said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party
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The difference is that the Boston Tea Party was the "last resort" after almost all other options had been tried. A huge difference to the first response attitude of these posts which is "destroy property" before attempting non-destructive or non-violent resolutions.

Violence and destruction can be a necessary, though never desired, last solution. Instead, more and more people view it as a "first reaction" instead, which is sad and disheartening in our society, or lack of society when everyone wants to "disobey the man!!!"
 
BBA said:
I always thought I was at least a little better than the Taliban, since I do not do the evil acts they do, like kill people they did not religiously agree with
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The Crusades (Christians) would like to have a word with you. :D
 
Ducman69 said:
Not all schools are the same. If you're in an area that is zoned to a uhmm "urban" demographic, then expect low scores on averages and quite a few kids that herp the derp.

The best is to move to an asian neighborhood. About half my class was asian, and taken as a whole you get a much better and more serious student body. On the downside, you might be valedictorian in any other school, but in that one you may struggle to stay in the top 25%, lol!
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I am pretty sure at least 60-70% of the students who go to my school have parents that make over 6 figures, some probably over 7 or 8. It's not a shitty urban school.
 
xIronCrossx said:
This. Check out Medieval Europe as well :)
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And World War 2, and the 200 years of violence in Ireland, and the actions of Timothy McVeigh and David Koresh, and the Mar Arab Festival in Michigan, and... I could go on all day. Many Americans are too xenophobic and one-sided.
 
Azhar said:
And World War 2, and the 200 years of violence in Ireland, and the actions of Timothy McVeigh and David Koresh, and the Mar Arab Festival in Michigan, and... I could go on all day. Many Americans are too xenophobic and one-sided.
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To be fair, many Americans just have no idea because they look at the Middle East and think "bad", even though they have no idea that Christianity did the same exact stuff in Europe.
 
xIronCrossx said:
To be fair, many Americans just have no idea because they look at the Middle East and think "bad", even though they have no idea that Christianity did the same exact stuff in Europe.
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No, they look at the Middle East and think "the little rag head motherfuckers are in the way of our oil", lets supply them weapons and pitch them in a perpetual state of war with their neighbors - oops, that backfired, now they're bad people, lets go kill the fuckers.
 
Azhar said:
No, they look at the Middle East and think "the little rag head motherfuckers are in the way of our oil", lets supply them weapons and pitch them in a perpetual state of war with their neighbors - oops, that backfired, now they're bad people, lets go kill the fuckers.
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Like we would ever supply weapons or support the Taliban in the mid 90s with hopes of cheap oil. Right.
 
BBA said:
Mind you, tell me what event started the crusades? (Hint...Muslim violence).
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Those areas had been fought over back and forth for time immemorial, sometimes under Arab/Turkish control, sometimes under Egyptian control and sometimes under Byzentine Christian control.

It hardly seems fair to blame the violence on Muslims alone...

If anything, the violence in the area was due to several empires struggling for control over the region over a period of over 1000 years.
 
Azhar said:
Look up cascading events in the middle east from, say, 1950 until now.
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I suspect we could probably go all the way back to the end of WWI and the breakup of the Ottoman Empire for the roots of many of the issues ... but the west has been particularly klutzy with our dealings in the Middle East ... the enemy of my enemy is my friend approach we have practiced with all countries and regions has been particularly tragic there ... but I digress ... back to your regularly scheduled programming :)
 
Let's get back on track just a little.

The argument here is someone claiming spanking a child = violence.

Somehow, we have raised a generation or two in this country that don't understand that discipline can be physical and NOT = violence.

Can you even understand that you can spank a child and almost be in tears yourself for having to do it? You are doing it precisely BECAUSE you love them and have to instill discipline. Is the concept of love in discipline completely gone from the world?
 
Advil said:
Let's get back on track just a little.

The argument here is someone claiming spanking a child = violence.
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no, the argument is about a public school district punishing a student because they didn't want to wear a tracking device.
 
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