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I thought FG now works with Vsync according to DigitalFoundry?
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LG 48CX
- Thread starter gan7114
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I thought FG now works with Vsync according to DigitalFoundry?
Well, it's greyed out in Cyberpunk. Tried to enable it there last night, but no luck. You can force it on through the Nvidia control panel, but it was flickering/artifacting. Maybe just wasn't enough native frames in the mix at that low FPS. I think I tried it at 60, because I was aiming for DLSS quality mode, but now probably I'll stick with performance mode for Cyberpunk and try other combinations of settings.
Also I'm not exactly sure how it works, but if 100Hz means 50 native/50 generated, maybe 60 would be better without frame generation for example. I mean on the CX the BFI will have the same persistence either way and you'd get more real frames. Though I guess input lag would go up. And would have to turn up OLED light.
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I played with PT on + DLSS Balanced and FG on. Didn't bother with trying to force VSync on since even with FG on my fps would almost never go above my monitors max refresh rate of 144Hz so I never had to worry about screen tearing. I think on the CX you would also be fine leaving VSync off with FG enabled since even 120fps is a tough ask for running PT and DLSS Balanced. If you dropped down to DLSS Performance mode then you could probably go over 120fps at certain moments. I wouldn't recommend BFI in this game since the HDR seems to be really good now.
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Been playing around with the benchmark on Cyberpunk all morning. Think I've settled on 60Hz, V-Sync on, FG off, DLSS Performance, HDR10 scRGB, BFI High.
I did try with BFI off, but it adds a lot of blur. So will play when the room is dim.
I definitely cannot use 60Hz BFI but if you can go for it. Perhaps you could also try 100Hz BFI and use see what it looks like with VSync on and FG on, maybe it will be locked to 100fps and DLSS Perfomance + FG might be capable of keeping it at 100fps majority of the time.
Will retry 100Hz with those settings. I think before I was seeing some seeing artifacting, but might have been a different combination.
(I do see the flickering when first starting 60Hz BFI High, but then it seems to go away or something to my eyes...or maybe just become more subtle.)
Apparently HDR10 PQ is the option to choose as the other has a color issue. Wasn't sure what was going on with the raised black levels, but looks like Plasma TV for Gaming has a solution:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKThK63kYj0.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKThK63kYj0.
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This video is also pretty helpful for setting up HDR in this game.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okZIcgnyY1c
Indeed. And he shows how HDR10 scRGB setting cuts off the color space in CyberPunk. So much for it being better.
And I actually thought also it still looked good without achieving a true black. Though I guess with an OLED one might as well go for it. I'd not used Reshade before, but it seems innocuous enough. I couldn't get Plasma For Gaming's preset to load, but was able to manually update setting from the video. It seems to work. Black frames are now true black. And the crush I had noticed before seems to be alleviated.
And I actually thought also it still looked good without achieving a true black. Though I guess with an OLED one might as well go for it. I'd not used Reshade before, but it seems innocuous enough. I couldn't get Plasma For Gaming's preset to load, but was able to manually update setting from the video. It seems to work. Black frames are now true black. And the crush I had noticed before seems to be alleviated.
10 Bit RGB with 300 Hz or more effective motion clarity courtesy of advanced rolling scan BFI. This thing is still such a dream.
However, the failed pixel horror stories have got me spooked a bit. I have one full pixel failed that's slightly in from the top edge. And otherwise maybe 20 subpixels in the same boat along the edges. I think it came this way. (Though I'm not sure about that one full pixel.)
Out of related curiosity, wondering if I should get a back up unit, I looked for new CX/C1 available, and nothing. Not in the 48'' size anyway. Not even on eBay where I lucked out on this one. This is reminding me of the CRT situation. Not sure why things have to be like this...
However, the failed pixel horror stories have got me spooked a bit. I have one full pixel failed that's slightly in from the top edge. And otherwise maybe 20 subpixels in the same boat along the edges. I think it came this way. (Though I'm not sure about that one full pixel.)
Out of related curiosity, wondering if I should get a back up unit, I looked for new CX/C1 available, and nothing. Not in the 48'' size anyway. Not even on eBay where I lucked out on this one. This is reminding me of the CRT situation. Not sure why things have to be like this...
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With the return of BFI on the upcoming Asus OLEDs, there probably isn't much reason to bother with a CX anymore unless you really want something that's 48". If size isn't an issue to you and you just want the same awesome motion clarity of BFI + OLED then just get the Asus PG32UCDM. Not to mention the Asus will have much better text clarity due to better subpixel structure vs the CX + waaaay higher PPI.
Yeah, I think I agree the cavalry is coming. I hope so.
But not with the 240Hz ones.
I mean those products so far don't appear as impressive to me. I think it's the sizes, the screen coatings/surfaces, the cruder and more limited BFI implementation.
At the same time, their existence/impending existence maybe does make the idea of a back up CX/C1 kind of silly I suppose.
But not with the 240Hz ones.
I mean those products so far don't appear as impressive to me. I think it's the sizes, the screen coatings/surfaces, the cruder and more limited BFI implementation.
At the same time, their existence/impending existence maybe does make the idea of a back up CX/C1 kind of silly I suppose.
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120Hz BFI is the same capability as the CX, it's just that the CX can also do 100Hz and 60Hz but even for a BFI lover like myself, 60Hz is an absolute no go because there's too much flicker for me and I would just get a headache within minutes. 100Hz BFI is helpful only in a niche scenario where you can maintain 100fps minimums but not 120, so overall IMO the BFI implementation on the Asus isn't really any worse than a CX. Screen coating is semi gloss and not full gloss so yeah that's a downgrade but it's not a huge deal because as long as it isn't matte. So in exchange for getting a slightly worse screen coating and no 100Hz BFI, you get a massive boost in text quality, the versatility to use VRR up to 240Hz, and the fact that it's a monitor and not a TV means you don't deal with any smart TV BS.
The CX/C1 BFI is further enhanced though by doing that subrefresh level of persistence. The new monitors appear to be limited to literal BFI if I'm understanding right. And that additional 60+ Hz of effective refresh with regard to blur actually seems to make a difference. If I look at BlurBuster's charts, I appear to be seeing things on the UFO on the CX beyond what should be apparent if it were limited to ~4 ms. (CX/C1 is closer to 3ms persistence best folks have been able to figure out..)
The fellow at Monitor's Unboxed reviewing one of the new units appeared to splash a little bit of cold water on its BFI. I suspect because he was comparing against LCD implementations (and possibly the C1 he had in much earlier) and their subrefresh persistence capabilities.
I'm sure I'm nitpicking. And per your above and my further consideration I won't be searching for a CX/C1 back up.
(Oh...also I get not allowing HDR with BFI, which I think is Asus's position, but I really think that should be a decision the user is allowed to make.)
The fellow at Monitor's Unboxed reviewing one of the new units appeared to splash a little bit of cold water on its BFI. I suspect because he was comparing against LCD implementations (and possibly the C1 he had in much earlier) and their subrefresh persistence capabilities.
I'm sure I'm nitpicking. And per your above and my further consideration I won't be searching for a CX/C1 back up.
(Oh...also I get not allowing HDR with BFI, which I think is Asus's position, but I really think that should be a decision the user is allowed to make.)
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Another reason to avoid the CX at this point is because apparently it has another issue:
https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/1aqia7r/dead_pixels/
So really, burn in is the least concern for a CX. You are more likely to experience dozens of dead pixels and the panel delaminating itself before you ever get burn in.
This issue is what spooked me. Saw a picture of pixels failing along the sides that was a real horror show. Oh well, it will last as long as it lasts I guess.
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Yeah I'm kinda in the same boat. Even though I have probably over 200 dead pixels by now, it's not noticeable from a proper viewing distance so it's whatever to me. Just gonna continue to use my CX but I am considering upgrading to a discounted 55" Samsung S90D next year if there is no announcement of a 48-50" QD OLED for 2025 at CES.
Yeah it's not cool but it's also not noticeable in my case either (aka real world use) and I still get stellar picture quality without burn-in. So I'm hoping it can stay that way for a few more years at least since while there seems to be more and more competition in the OLED space, there is nothing out there that would feel like much of an upgrade yet. Yea a bit brighter HDR... that I'll probably notice 0.1% of the time. And 240hz? I hardly play any games that could run that fast at 4k, even with a 4090. Stable 120 seems like a much more realistic target.
I had no idea this happened over time. I have two CX's here and a C2. Will have to keep an eye on them.
Never heard of that one. Mine seems ok so far. Any chance the delam issues are screens that have had the panel replaced? You never see any kind of flat panel screen do that these days, cheap or not. If the screen is capable of delaminating in less than 10-15 years that's just plain a design defect. That needs to be covered whether you are in or out of initial warranty.
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Had my CX since it came out, gets lots of usage on my main box, still perfect.
phinix
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I have 48CX - how many dead pixels do I need to have to get warranty replacement? Is it in clusters or some amount of single pixels or something like that?
Counted over 30 dead pixels around the edges.
Counted over 30 dead pixels around the edges.
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Heading towards my first anniversary with the CX. It's my main display also. Shows 3356 hours today. Will cross my fingers as to its future longevity. It certainly still seems to me that this display was one of those rare moments when it all came together.
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That was my favorite screensaver to use with my FW-900. I can only assume it pops on that screen.
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Checked mine this morning 8,068 hours. Ordered on December 28, 2020.
Not a dead pixel in sight and no burn-in, unless you go looking for it with a very fine comb, nothing that can be seen during regular usage, and then it is from a single game.
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Ride it like you stole it. Enjoy it for what it is while you got it and don’t look back. Burn-in is an inevitability and shouldn’t stop anyone from taking the plunge and enjoying one of the best pictures you’ll ever get to see. My opinion.
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RTings just updated their burn in testing at 8400 hours. There is actually a massive difference going from the CX to the C2. Looks like the EVO panel (Or is it EX panel? I forgot) found in the C2 is much more resistant to burn in than the non EVO CX. This is 8400 hours of the same content being displayed over and over again.
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A lot of people are already aware of this but Micro lens array tech (MLA) in models that can get it going forward may have to rely on the inclusion of the white subpixels less, or at a different scale. Phosphorescent blue oleds might also provide more resilience where "cheating" a higher perceived brightness via pumping the white subpixel might not be as necessary. So in models that get it, MLA and PhOLED, including from a burn-in avoidance standpoint, might allow the design and firmware choices to fire the white subpixels less, less intensely across a range, inserting white into the higher part of the color volume less. Maybe like a different gradient, a higher gradient starting point in the range where the white starts blending in, diluting color values appreciably.
Less reliance on the white but also, just like the inclusion of white subpixel color brightness can present some higher color values at lower energy/heat states than without the white vs faster "burn down" of the emitters at the same perceived brightness levels otherwise, MLA can do the same type of thing, showing color values at less energy/heat by concentrating the light through the micro lenses. That combined with phos blue OLED, "phOLED" which is much longer lived than the fluorescent blue oleds or stacks of blue fluo-oleds used so far, could both increase the brightness levels and durations while also reducing/delaying the burn-down of the wear evening buffer. The wear evening buffer does a good job of burning all of the emitters down to even again, then pumping the output back up to normal so that you don't see how much you've burned the lifespan of your screen down. Eventually that reserved energy/brightness buffer is exhausted and you are no longer to compensate for burn down of emitters so get increasingly visible burn-in. The static red cnn log and bar on 24/7 would burn down through the wear evening buffer a lot faster than more dynamic content. Like the old corny joke where the doctor says to the patient: "So, what can I help you with? what's the problem?". the patient says to the doctor: "Hey doc, my arm hurts like hell when I hold it like this". Doctor replies: "Don't hold it like that".
Here is how the RTings burn-in test is done (pasted from their page) :
So potentially, at least in models with phosBlue OLED and better yet phOLED + MLA and depending how the resilience vs. output is balanced, we should eventually get brighter/taller color volume, longer sustained mids and highs, less of the color volume polluted by white, and at the same or most likely even longer lifespans than screens now (regular HDR gaming and media usage - the burn in tests are torture tests).
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Also incase anyone wants to see, here's the LG CX at 6 months vs the LG C2 at 14 months. At 6 months into the torture test, the CX is looking about the same as the C2 does at 14 months, maybe even worst. Really goes to show just how much LG has improved the burn in resistance on their panels. I can only imagine the MLA panels are going to be even better in this regard.
CX:
C2:
CX:
C2:
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As I understand it, the RTings tests are done at max brightness with the material left on 24/7 as a torture test.
Personally, if watching news programs and things with bars I'd switch to a different picture mode with more reasonable brightness while watching that.. RTings torture test was at max brightness with the tv constantly on. In my more normal usage case, the emitters could potentially last a very long time.
That test is useful to see which models suffer sooner than the others but real world usage should be several years before that happens with some care taken - not using a max brightness named picture setting on news banner SDR material, utilizing the "turn off the screen" emitters feature when afk, when pausing movies or games for a while, or in general when not giving the screen face time.
I think they would last a lot longer than even what I just suggested if OLED manufacturers ever chose to include some manual masking feature capability (rather than only logo dimming). Like if you could go into the osd and pick a rectangle or a circle like the rectangle or circle selection tools in photoshop, resize and drag them over an area and set the opacity to mask static things like tv channel logos, advertisment bars/windows, direct light source spot lighting in static camera position content, or other often irrelevant (and annoying) static screen elements. Then save that as one of a number of selection sets for when you go back to that material again eventually. I don't think it would be hard to do something like that as an overlay. Would be useful to me if they ever did. If I could activate different saved masking sets by voice assistant (like i can now change named picture modes) it would be even more convenient.
In the future perhaps AI could snap selections to screen elements smartly (like magic wand tool in image editing apps), and maybe AI could even fill the bar or logo areas with intelligently imagined pixels that match the actual content scene as if you deleted the bar, banner, or logo. That or allow you to control how (virtually) translucent or darkened you want them to look.
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ItzTripi
n00b
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Pretty sure 30 would be covered by warranty that seems like a ton
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Agreed, that seems crazy to me. phinix, has the panel been moved around a lot or seen big temperature deltas, like being in non-AC storage? My 48CX has 8000+ hours on it since Jan 2021, and is perfect. I wonder if something changed after LG started seeing huge movement in inventory. I also have a 65CX that I use for my living room TV, it is perfect as well. Bought it a month or two after the 48CX for the desktop because I found it so impressive.
Edit: I was wrong. I was impressed enough with the 48CX that it took me 11 days to order one for the living room.
DeathSmasher
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I have waited an waited on upgrading monitors holding out for the holy grail. i want a big high hrz 4k. i have no clue whats hot these days but i know this monitor has been nothing but good. would yall still recommend a buy for it this current day? If so what exact model am i looking for an where would you recommend i purchase it? Thank you for all input. Or if someone knows of some new latest greats that whoops this please share. And it has to be out now to order no waiting a few months anymore.\
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The most innovation, from what I've looked at for my likes anyway, is that there is:
. . G95NC 57" FALD VA super-ultrawide. A 7680x2160 s-uw (4k+4k wide) that can do 240hz on amd and 120hz on nvidia (at least nvidia's current gen. currently, prob will be capable of 240Hz on a 5000 series in 2025 but there might be a chance some fw update could allow it on 4000 series). From the different videos I watched and screenshots I took of it, I found it would be too short looking to my perspective from typical seating distance personally.
. . Various 32" 4k OLEDs and QD-OLEDs that are 240hz are just coming out and other models due to release soon, where the oled gaming tvs have been 120hz for the most part (may have been a few that could do 165hz, or when running at lower than 4k rez). The 32" 4k OLED format allows people a much higher PPD when mounted directly on a desk ( PPD is pixels per degree, a measure of the perceived pixel size of a resolution at any given distance), and viewed at more central viewing angles which is also beneficial. That higher PPD (and thus smaller perceived pixel sizes) should help with OLED tech's non-standard subpixel format's effect on fringing things, especially text where the sub-sampling method used to mask how large the pixels actually are is based on standard rgb subpixel layout. I know you said "right now", but while there are a few models just released, I believe there are more competing 32 inch 4k OLEDs due out very soon.
Usually you can look at some of the topmost threads in the "Displays" section. Several of the most interesting displays out and upcoming are usually the most active threads, with a few other threads in the mix.
There are a lot of pros and cons with so many differing specs and screen formats, usage scenarios and room environments, etc. what gpu you have and your upgrade path, even the appeal factors vs price tier, "early adopter" price vs. price later in product cycle. So imo you really have to decide for yourself which would be best, and if (and when) a candidate is a worthwhile upgrade from what you have right now.
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