LG 48CX

Really impressive results from the C2 in that case, then.

Given the fact that my CX has made it this long in daily use without looking anything like the above pic, the C2 could be my last monitor purchase ever. :p

Kidding of course since it’s already due for a specs upgrade, but needless to say what little concern there was regarding any potential for noticeable burn-in based on my experience is gone at this point.
 
SH1 said:
I think those results are with maximum OLED light. Hopefully real life usage will be more kind...
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Yeah I don't think anyone is blasting their sets with max OLED light, this is just for science. But it shows that the EVO or EX panel whatever LG is calling it now really is more resilient to burn in over the previous panels so it wasn't just all marketing fluff.
 
Lateralus said:
Really impressive results from the C2 in that case, then.

Given the fact that my CX has made it this long in daily use without looking anything like the above pic, the C2 could be my last monitor purchase ever. :p

Kidding of course since it’s already due for a specs upgrade, but needless to say what little concern there was regarding any potential for noticeable burn-in based on my experience is gone at this point.
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The CX has been so good I've had very little reason to upgrade.

Maybe if next year they go 4K 240 Hz and brighter, that would be enough of a reason to swap it. Otherwise I'll probably use it until it dies.
 
kasakka said:
The CX has been so good I've had very little reason to upgrade.

Maybe if next year they go 4K 240 Hz and brighter, that would be enough of a reason to swap it. Otherwise I'll probably use it until it dies.
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Same for me. Brighter is always better, but the amount it's increased isn't significant enough to warrant an upgrade yet.

I would be tempted by 4k 240hz. But what would really get me is simultaneous VRR and strobing.
 
sharknice said:
Same for me. Brighter is always better, but the amount it's increased isn't significant enough to warrant an upgrade yet.

I would be tempted by 4k 240hz. But what would really get me is simultaneous VRR and strobing.
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I think 120/240 Hz BFI with low input lag without VRR would be good.
 
sharknice said:
Same for me. Brighter is always better, but the amount it's increased isn't significant enough to warrant an upgrade yet.

I would be tempted by 4k 240hz. But what would really get me is simultaneous VRR and strobing.
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I'm willing to bet that BFI will never come back. And the fact that people were championing the removal of the feature was pretty baffling. Doesn't matter if you personally don't use said feature, nobody should be cheering when features are REMOVED.
 
MistaSparkul said:
I'm willing to bet that BFI will never come back. And the fact that people were championing the removal of the feature was pretty baffling. Doesn't matter if you personally don't use said feature, nobody should be cheering when features are REMOVED.
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Baffling is putting it very kindly.

BFI is absolutely spectacular on the CX. Even the 60 Hz mode. Please LG bring it back!

I know some don't like it with HDR. And that it doesn't work at all with VRR. However, motion resolution, is a baseline more important than any of that. It's about getting back what we had for decades with CRT. And that then was taken away.
 
SH1 said:
Baffling is putting it very kindly.

BFI is absolutely spectacular on the CX. Even the 60 Hz mode. Please LG bring it back!

I know some don't like it with HDR. And that it doesn't work at all with VRR. However, motion resolution, is a baseline more important than any of that. It's about getting back what we had for decades with CRT. And that then was taken away.
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I'm pretty it can be done with VRR as LCD's already do this. It should also be compatible with HDR to some degree because the PSVR2 uses OLED displays and is supposedly HDR capable but I'm not sure how bright it actually gets. But yeah just the simple fact that BFI is used in every single VR display makes it ironic when people say BFI is useless.
 
MistaSparkul said:
I'm pretty it can be done with VRR as LCD's already do this. It should also be compatible with HDR to some degree because the PSVR2 uses OLED displays and is supposedly HDR capable but I'm not sure how bright it actually gets. But yeah just the simple fact that BFI is used in every single VR display makes it ironic when people say BFI is useless.
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Even on the LG CX series you can use BFI with HDR. It's just pointless because the brightness drop is so big that it makes them look like SDR. I don't think OLEDs will ever have the brightness reserves to make that work on a TV/monitor size display. Maybe with VR glasses it works because you need less brightness since it's so close to your eyes.

VRR is another bag of worms. Afaik there's nothing out there that truly does VRR+BFI/backlight strobing without major issues.
 
I still find HDR effective with 120Hz BFI. Maybe because my room is relatively dim? (I can see there would be less runway with 60Hz BFI.)

I mostly just love this CX so far, because it's the closest to a flat panel CRT I've ever had...
 
Just checked the service menu of my LG CX 48" as for reasons unknown European models don't show usage time. 6823 hours, or 284 days and 7h of on time. Still no burn in.
 
kasakka said:
Even on the LG CX series you can use BFI with HDR. It's just pointless because the brightness drop is so big that it makes them look like SDR. I don't think OLEDs will ever have the brightness reserves to make that work on a TV/monitor size display. Maybe with VR glasses it works because you need less brightness since it's so close to your eyes.

VRR is another bag of worms. Afaik there's nothing out there that truly does VRR+BFI/backlight strobing without major issues.
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PSVR2 doesn't do it well. By default PSVR2 has very high persistence, which makes people sick. When you actually set the persistence to what's seen in other headsets the brightness is very low and not what you would consider HDR.

On OLED VRR strobing should be much easier to solve than LCD because you don't have to worry about pixel timings and crosstalk. It's really just evening the brightness out that needs to be solved, which really doesn't seem very hard.
Yes things will be darker when using it but I would still love it. I think the clarity benefits would outweigh the brightness limitations in a lot of cases.
I think they just haven't really tried yet because OLED has only just started to become popular so it's been a niche feature upon a niche market. We'll probably see it in a few years as OLED competition continues to increase and they look for ways to set themselves apart.
 
sharknice said:
PSVR2 doesn't do it well. By default PSVR2 has very high persistence, which makes people sick. When you actually set the persistence to what's seen in other headsets the brightness is very low and not what you would consider HDR.

On OLED VRR strobing should be much easier to solve than LCD because you don't have to worry about pixel timings and crosstalk. It's really just evening the brightness out that needs to be solved, which really doesn't seem very hard.
Yes things will be darker when using it but I would still love it. I think the clarity benefits would outweigh the brightness limitations in a lot of cases.
I think they just haven't really tried yet because OLED has only just started to become popular so it's been a niche feature upon a niche market. We'll probably see it in a few years as OLED competition continues to increase and they look for ways to set themselves apart.
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Strobing has now become insanely good on LCD with the latest ULMB2 on the 360Hz and 540Hz displays. Obviously an OLED would never pass ULMB2 certification since it cannot get bright enough, but I would love to see what strobing would look like on something like the upcoming 480Hz WOLED.
 
Putting hours on mine rapidly. Got the pixel refresher message last night. Checked the counter and yup 2000 hours. I don't notice a difference before and after. Except I think I spotted a new dead pixel along the top edge. Though it's only a handful or two along the edges so far...
 
I've just paired it with a 4090. I didn't know or had forgotten that frame generation doesn't work with V-Sync. However, running Cyberpunk with path tracing with frames limited to 100 FPS via the Nvidia control panel (though DLSS set to "performance" ) appears to work ok. And the new card has restored some games that no longer worked well after the jump to 4K.

I guess the new version of Cyberpunk might be a good case for G-SYNC, but I really want BFI though.
 
SH1 said:
I've just paired it with a 4090. I didn't know or had forgotten that frame generation doesn't work with V-Sync. However, running Cyberpunk with path tracing with frames limited to 100 FPS via the Nvidia control panel (though DLSS set to "performance" ) appears to work ok. And the new card has restored some games that no longer worked well after the jump to 4K.

I guess the new version of Cyberpunk might be a good case for G-SYNC, but I really want BFI though.
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I thought FG now works with Vsync according to DigitalFoundry?
 
MistaSparkul said:
I thought FG now works with Vsync according to DigitalFoundry?
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Well, it's greyed out in Cyberpunk. Tried to enable it there last night, but no luck. You can force it on through the Nvidia control panel, but it was flickering/artifacting. Maybe just wasn't enough native frames in the mix at that low FPS. I think I tried it at 60, because I was aiming for DLSS quality mode, but now probably I'll stick with performance mode for Cyberpunk and try other combinations of settings.

Also I'm not exactly sure how it works, but if 100Hz means 50 native/50 generated, maybe 60 would be better without frame generation for example. I mean on the CX the BFI will have the same persistence either way and you'd get more real frames. Though I guess input lag would go up. And would have to turn up OLED light.
 
So 4K path traced Cyberpunk appears to work well at 60 Hz on the CX with V-Sync on/Frame Gen off. However, not sure on what display, but Alex from Digital Foundry says he'd still turn Frame Gen on. So still not sure optimal settings yet...
 
SH1 said:
So 4K path traced Cyberpunk appears to work well at 60 Hz on the CX with V-Sync on/Frame Gen off. However, not sure on what display, but Alex from Digital Foundry says he'd still turn Frame Gen on. So still not sure optimal settings yet...
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I played with PT on + DLSS Balanced and FG on. Didn't bother with trying to force VSync on since even with FG on my fps would almost never go above my monitors max refresh rate of 144Hz so I never had to worry about screen tearing. I think on the CX you would also be fine leaving VSync off with FG enabled since even 120fps is a tough ask for running PT and DLSS Balanced. If you dropped down to DLSS Performance mode then you could probably go over 120fps at certain moments. I wouldn't recommend BFI in this game since the HDR seems to be really good now.
 
Thank you. Yeah, maybe will bring back FG. And will check out HDR. (120 Hz BFI + HDR seemed ok to me with Doom Eternal though I do play in a darkened room often.
 
Been playing around with the benchmark on Cyberpunk all morning. Think I've settled on 60Hz, V-Sync on, FG off, DLSS Performance, HDR10 scRGB, BFI High.

I did try with BFI off, but it adds a lot of blur. So will play when the room is dim.:)
 
SH1 said:
Been playing around with the benchmark on Cyberpunk all morning. Think I've settled on 60Hz, V-Sync on, FG off, DLSS Performance, HDR10 scRGB, BFI High.

I did try with BFI off, but it adds a lot of blur. So will play when the room is dim.:)
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I definitely cannot use 60Hz BFI but if you can go for it. Perhaps you could also try 100Hz BFI and use see what it looks like with VSync on and FG on, maybe it will be locked to 100fps and DLSS Perfomance + FG might be capable of keeping it at 100fps majority of the time.
 
MistaSparkul said:
I definitely cannot use 60Hz BFI but if you can go for it. Perhaps you could also try 100Hz BFI and use see what it looks like with VSync on and FG on, maybe it will be locked to 100fps and DLSS Perfomance + FG might be capable of keeping it at 100fps majority of the time.
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Will retry 100Hz with those settings. I think before I was seeing some seeing artifacting, but might have been a different combination.

(I do see the flickering when first starting 60Hz BFI High, but then it seems to go away or something to my eyes...or maybe just become more subtle.)
 
100Hz BFI with FG and V-Sync (through Nvidia control panel) and DLSS Performance is viable I think. A little choppy. (5800X3D, not the latest CPU, if that's a thing.)

Too bright for me, but that's my dim lighting here though.
 
Indeed. And he shows how HDR10 scRGB setting cuts off the color space in CyberPunk. So much for it being better.

And I actually thought also it still looked good without achieving a true black. Though I guess with an OLED one might as well go for it. I'd not used Reshade before, but it seems innocuous enough. I couldn't get Plasma For Gaming's preset to load, but was able to manually update setting from the video. It seems to work. Black frames are now true black. And the crush I had noticed before seems to be alleviated.
 
HDR10 PQ with 100Hz BFI with FG and V-Sync (through Nvidia control panel) and DLSS Performance it is. After applying Plasma for Gaming's Reshade setting, 60Hz BFI is too dim for me.
 
10 Bit RGB with 300 Hz or more effective motion clarity courtesy of advanced rolling scan BFI. This thing is still such a dream.

However, the failed pixel horror stories have got me spooked a bit. I have one full pixel failed that's slightly in from the top edge. And otherwise maybe 20 subpixels in the same boat along the edges. I think it came this way. (Though I'm not sure about that one full pixel.)

Out of related curiosity, wondering if I should get a back up unit, I looked for new CX/C1 available, and nothing. Not in the 48'' size anyway. Not even on eBay where I lucked out on this one. This is reminding me of the CRT situation. Not sure why things have to be like this...
 
SH1 said:
10 Bit RGB with 300 Hz or more effective motion clarity courtesy of advanced rolling scan BFI. This thing is still such a dream.

However, the failed pixel horror stories have got me spooked a bit. I have one full pixel failed that's slightly in from the top edge. And otherwise maybe 20 subpixels in the same boat along the edges. I think it came this way. (Though I'm not sure about that one full pixel.)

Out of related curiosity, wondering if I should get a back up unit, I looked for new CX/C1 available, and nothing. Not in the 48'' size anyway. Not even on eBay where I lucked out on this one. This is reminding me of the CRT situation. Not sure why things have to be like this...
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With the return of BFI on the upcoming Asus OLEDs, there probably isn't much reason to bother with a CX anymore unless you really want something that's 48". If size isn't an issue to you and you just want the same awesome motion clarity of BFI + OLED then just get the Asus PG32UCDM. Not to mention the Asus will have much better text clarity due to better subpixel structure vs the CX + waaaay higher PPI.
 
Yeah, I think I agree the cavalry is coming. I hope so.

But not with the 240Hz ones.

I mean those products so far don't appear as impressive to me. I think it's the sizes, the screen coatings/surfaces, the cruder and more limited BFI implementation.

At the same time, their existence/impending existence maybe does make the idea of a back up CX/C1 kind of silly I suppose.
 
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SH1 said:
Yeah, I think I agree the cavalry is coming. I hope so.

But not with the 240Hz ones.

I mean those products so far don't appear as impressive to me. I think it's the sizes, the screen coatings/surfaces, the cruder and more limited BFI implementation.

At the same time, their existence/impending existence maybe does make the idea of a back up CX/C1 kind of silly I suppose.
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120Hz BFI is the same capability as the CX, it's just that the CX can also do 100Hz and 60Hz but even for a BFI lover like myself, 60Hz is an absolute no go because there's too much flicker for me and I would just get a headache within minutes. 100Hz BFI is helpful only in a niche scenario where you can maintain 100fps minimums but not 120, so overall IMO the BFI implementation on the Asus isn't really any worse than a CX. Screen coating is semi gloss and not full gloss so yeah that's a downgrade but it's not a huge deal because as long as it isn't matte. So in exchange for getting a slightly worse screen coating and no 100Hz BFI, you get a massive boost in text quality, the versatility to use VRR up to 240Hz, and the fact that it's a monitor and not a TV means you don't deal with any smart TV BS.
 
The CX/C1 BFI is further enhanced though by doing that subrefresh level of persistence. The new monitors appear to be limited to literal BFI if I'm understanding right. And that additional 60+ Hz of effective refresh with regard to blur actually seems to make a difference. If I look at BlurBuster's charts, I appear to be seeing things on the UFO on the CX beyond what should be apparent if it were limited to ~4 ms. (CX/C1 is closer to 3ms persistence best folks have been able to figure out..)

The fellow at Monitor's Unboxed reviewing one of the new units appeared to splash a little bit of cold water on its BFI. I suspect because he was comparing against LCD implementations (and possibly the C1 he had in much earlier) and their subrefresh persistence capabilities.

I'm sure I'm nitpicking. And per your above and my further consideration I won't be searching for a CX/C1 back up.

(Oh...also I get not allowing HDR with BFI, which I think is Asus's position, but I really think that should be a decision the user is allowed to make.)
 
SH1 said:
The CX/C1 BFI is further enhanced though by doing that subrefresh level of persistence. The new monitors appear to be limited to literal BFI if I'm understanding right. And that additional 60+ Hz of effective refresh with regard to blur actually seems to make a difference. If I look at BlurBuster's charts, I appear to be seeing things on the UFO on the CX beyond what should be apparent if it were limited to ~4 ms. (CX/C1 is closer to 3ms persistence best folks have been able to figure out..)

The fellow at Monitor's Unboxed reviewing one of the new units appeared to splash a little bit of cold water on its BFI. I suspect because he was comparing against LCD implementations (and possibly the C1 he had in much earlier) and their subrefresh persistence capabilities.

I'm sure I'm nitpicking. And per your above and my further consideration I won't be searching for a CX/C1 back up.

(Oh...also I get not allowing HDR with BFI, which I think is Asus's position, but I really think that should be a decision the user is allowed to make.)
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Another reason to avoid the CX at this point is because apparently it has another issue:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/1aqia7r/dead_pixels/

So really, burn in is the least concern for a CX. You are more likely to experience dozens of dead pixels and the panel delaminating itself before you ever get burn in.
 
MistaSparkul said:
Another reason to avoid the CX at this point is because apparently it has another issue:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/1aqia7r/dead_pixels/

So really, burn in is the least concern for a CX. You are more likely to experience dozens of dead pixels and the panel delaminating itself before you ever get burn in.
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This issue is what spooked me. Saw a picture of pixels failing along the sides that was a real horror show. Oh well, it will last as long as it lasts I guess.
 
Yeah I'm kinda in the same boat. Even though I have probably over 200 dead pixels by now, it's not noticeable from a proper viewing distance so it's whatever to me. Just gonna continue to use my CX but I am considering upgrading to a discounted 55" Samsung S90D next year if there is no announcement of a 48-50" QD OLED for 2025 at CES.
 
Yeah it's not cool but it's also not noticeable in my case either (aka real world use) and I still get stellar picture quality without burn-in. So I'm hoping it can stay that way for a few more years at least since while there seems to be more and more competition in the OLED space, there is nothing out there that would feel like much of an upgrade yet. Yea a bit brighter HDR... that I'll probably notice 0.1% of the time. And 240hz? I hardly play any games that could run that fast at 4k, even with a 4090. Stable 120 seems like a much more realistic target.
 
Never heard of that one. Mine seems ok so far. Any chance the delam issues are screens that have had the panel replaced? You never see any kind of flat panel screen do that these days, cheap or not. If the screen is capable of delaminating in less than 10-15 years that's just plain a design defect. That needs to be covered whether you are in or out of initial warranty.
 
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