Blackstone
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Ampere?
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LG 48CX
- Thread starter gan7114
- Start date
Ampere?
XoR_
[H]ard|Gawd
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I was talking about scaling on monitors.
Nvidia also took their sweet time implementing the damn feature. Threads about people begging for integer scaling for their 4K monitors were getting quite long. They did it only because Intel announced they will do it.
Personally I prefer 1080p integer scaled to 2160p than 1440p. I like square pixels and absolutely hate bilinear upscaling. Nvidia added some sharpening features (just because AMD had it...) and those are ok I guess but I still prefer pixel perfect rendering.
XoR_
[H]ard|Gawd
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AI frame interpolation can look really good
This however works pretty much the same way as any motion interpolation you can already find on modern TVs, just with more oomph added by superior processing. It require "future" frames so even if they managed to make it work in real time it would still add few frames of latency.
Proper input-lag-less motion interpolation would require to predict future frames.... and this has been already done and available on Oculus headsets. If your game cannot run at 90fps it will render at 45fps and Oculus driver will recreate missing frame based on motion of objects by warping parts of image. It works surprisingly well and often I didn't even realize I was not running 90fps. It can be guessed from small artifacts under hands/weapons when waving them quickly but most of the game scene is processed without any visual artifacts. Also keep in mind it is VR headset so input lag is critical and it still worked. So yeah, this kind of processing is actually possible and with AI thrown at it who knows... maybe something like it will be future of gaming...
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Since we already talk about AI upscaling how well can LG C9/CX upscale lower resolutions like 480i/720p/1080i/p to 4K?
I guess that since they also use some form of "AI" then at the very least it may try to reconstruct edges or some details and effect might be actually pretty good for video and passable for game consoles? Also does this ai upscaling even work in game mode? Probably not...
As for motion interpolation on C9/CX I would assume it works better than what I have on my Panasonic plasma but probably still sucks and adds tons of input lag.
N4CR
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Mostly but tests of processing features is of interest, you can still drive it at 120Hz.
I know it's weird but also interested if it can handle 240p composite aka ps1.
elvn
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x!
Once we have hdmi 2.1 gpus, you would be able to get 4k 120hz VRR(10bit, 444 at that). The "your frame rate" everyone talks about is your frame rate average and it can be a roller coaster +/- 15 to 30 fps from that. Unless you are running a game at low-ish graphics settings or playing a game with low graphics detail, older game like CS:GO, L4D2, etc that gets over 300fps average - then you are probably going to have a hard time keeping your frame rate minimum at 120fps in order to match the 120hz capability of the monitor. If you did keep your frame rate minimums mostly to 120fps at 120Hz that would be 8.3ms per frame shown so as long as the input lag is less than that it shouldn't be an issue unless you are a blind samurai or something reacting to things you can't see. Based on what you see or not, you are still subject to server side latency normalization/balancing code between you and the server and other players' latencies in competitive games too. Most people aren't playing on a LAN vs other LAN players. If these LG TVs as monitors get 6.x ms of input lag that is below a single shown frame of 120FPS solid at 120Hz ~ 8.3ms per frame. I suspect most people will be struggling to get 100fps100Hz (10ms per frame) average let alone minimum at 4k. Though DLSS could help with that, people would probably start turning on RTX and tank their frame rate graphs all over again
Size is something that can be fixed with a custom resolution though, use that today already. It is details mainly about the actual difference in input lag I am looking for here as I have seen both things be claimed here, both that the difference now is so small that not even a pro would notice it (and I am far from being a Pro
Once we have hdmi 2.1 gpus, you would be able to get 4k 120hz VRR(10bit, 444 at that). The "your frame rate" everyone talks about is your frame rate average and it can be a roller coaster +/- 15 to 30 fps from that. Unless you are running a game at low-ish graphics settings or playing a game with low graphics detail, older game like CS:GO, L4D2, etc that gets over 300fps average - then you are probably going to have a hard time keeping your frame rate minimum at 120fps in order to match the 120hz capability of the monitor. If you did keep your frame rate minimums mostly to 120fps at 120Hz that would be 8.3ms per frame shown so as long as the input lag is less than that it shouldn't be an issue unless you are a blind samurai or something reacting to things you can't see. Based on what you see or not, you are still subject to server side latency normalization/balancing code between you and the server and other players' latencies in competitive games too. Most people aren't playing on a LAN vs other LAN players. If these LG TVs as monitors get 6.x ms of input lag that is below a single shown frame of 120FPS solid at 120Hz ~ 8.3ms per frame. I suspect most people will be struggling to get 100fps100Hz (10ms per frame) average let alone minimum at 4k. Though DLSS could help with that, people would probably start turning on RTX and tank their frame rate graphs all over again
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elvn
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...
They've quoted as low as 6ms. Unless you have a common frame rate LOW of 120fps at 120hz you aren't even getting 8.3ms per frame so it's pretty negligible input lag. Most people use VRR (g-sync, free-sync, HDMI variable refresh rate) in order to pump the graphics settings a bit higher and ride a fluctuating frame rate plus and minus 15, 20, even 30fps from "my framerate" which = your frame rate average. That is unless you are playing CSGO or L4D2 or something that gets like 300fps to start with.
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5 to 6ms is well under the fluctuating wave of frame rates most people are going to be rolling at 4k resolution when using VRR and a moderate frame rate average where the lower ranges of their actual frame rates aren't above 100fps-Hz.... (10ms per frame).
I'll be happy with ~6ms on a monitor with such great OLED per pixel visuals and other features (hdmi 2.1, VRR, 120hz 4k 4:4:4, etc.) while also not being limited to a slim ~13' tall or so belt model .
120hz is 8.3ms per frame and that is only if, even if ignoring a few frame rate "potholes" in your graph, you are getting 120fps solid all of the time as a common frame rate low.... which most people aren't in any kind of demanding games and settings near or at 4k resolution.
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120fps-Hz (solid, not average):
.................8.3ms per frame
.................50% reduction in sample and hold blur to a "soften blur" compared to baseline 60fps-Hz smearing blur (~ 8ms persistence vs 16ms persistence)
.................double the motion definition 2:1 ("# of unique pages~action states in a flip book flipping twice as fast"), incl. viewport movement, path articulation
................. 10 frames shown to every 5 at 60fps-Hz solid
................. 10 frames to every 8.3 shown at 100fps-Hz solide
................. 10 frames to every 10Hz refresh on a 120hz screen at 120fps solid (1:1)
115fps-Hz rate cap (solid frame rate, not average)
................. 8.7ms per frame
................ ~ 45% +?? reduction in sample in hold blur (8.7ms image persistence)
100fps-Hz (solid, not average):
................. 10ms per frame
................. ~40% reduction in sample and hold blur (10ms image persistence)
................. 10 frames to every 6 shown at 60fps-Hz solid (1.6:1)
................. 10 frames to ever 10 shown at 100fps-Hz solid
................. 10 frames to every 12 shown at 120fps-hz solid (1.2:1, 20fps-hz short of 120fps-hz)
75fps-Hz (solid, not average):
................. 13.3ms per frame
................. 15 ??? % reduction in sample and hold blur? (13.3ms persistence) .. still smearing blur, slightly moderated
................. 10 frames to every 8 shown at 60fps-Hz solid (1.25:1)
................. 10 frames to every 13 shown at 100fps-Hz solid (1.3:1)
................. 10 frames to every 16 shown at 120fps-Hz solid (1.6:1)
60fps-Hz (solid, not average):
................. 16.6ms per frame
................. baseline "100%" smearing blur "outside of the lines" of individual objects as well as viewport movement of the whole game world at speed
................. 1:1 motion definition vs 60fps-Hz baseline
................. 10 frames at 60fps-Hz to every 16.6 frames shown at 100fps-Hz
.................. [6 frames to every 10 shown at 100fps-Hz solid (5:3)]
..................10 frames at 60fps-Hz to every 20 frames shown at 120fps-Hz
.................. [5 frames to every 10 shown at 120fps-Hz solid (2:1, half)]
40fps-Hz (solid, not average):
................. 25ms per frame
................. baseline smearing blur (or worse) page-y choppy motion , sluggish
................. 10 frames to every 15 shown at 60fps-Hz solid (1.5:1)
................. 10 frames to every 25 shown at 100fps-Hz solid (2.5:1)
................. 10 frames to every 30 shown at 120fps-Hz solid (3:1)
30fps-Hz (solid, not average):
................. 33.3ms per frame
................. smearing blur, page-y/choppy animations ~ "molasses" movement and FoV movement ~ motion definition
................. 10 frames to every 20 shown at 60fps-Hz solid
................. 10 frames to every 30 shown at 100fps-Hz solid
................. 10 frames to every 40 shown at 120fps-Hz solid
(source of image below: back2gaming.com)
DrekkenRidge
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OLED gaming "monitors"? 240HZ? --- Not trying to be a smart alec, serious question, is there any evidence something like this exists or is in development? I've heard there's a couple of OLED "monitors" on the market for thousands of dollars, but I mean are there some "semi mainstream" ones targeted towards gaming being developed? Links?
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IdiotInCharge
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None that I know of. Mostly, there's nothing stopping such a product once panels are produced in volume at those sizes. 240Hz is small potatoes for OLED, while it's stretching LCD to it's limits.
XoR_
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Sooner or later we will have gaming OLEDs and by that time I guess they will be 240Hz and of course no one will even want to run them with current GPU's and current bandwidth limitations.
Unfortunately those are just my opinions and predictions and there were no announcements
Oh really, G-Sync doesn't work in 4K/120 4:2:0 mode on HDMI 2.0b? That is a huge bummer. I guess I will wait for Ampere to release before getting the 48CX...
Question for you since you are the first 48CX owner I've seen online: How is the motion clarity at 4K/120Hz 4:2:0 with the Trumotion BFI settings turned on? And how bad is the brightness drops between settings?
antonlissone
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I’ll try later today. But i think i prefer gsync...
I cannot seem to be able to enable the true motion menu... it's disabled..
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If you aren't familiar with this site, it is great for testing motion clarity:
https://testufo.com/ghosting
antonlissone
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I've tried many things - but the option doesn't un-grey/out. Different picture modes, different resolutions, HDR no HDR etc... maybe it requires a newer version of the software? See: . At 1:44 you see it enabled - on mine it's not...
Well that is not good news. What about using different input icons? I assume you are using "PC input" at the moment? Trumotion isn't working even at 60 Hz 4K? Something seems off. Try turning off Auto Low Latency Mode and see what happens.
antonlissone
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Thanks. Killing 'instance game response' did the trick
antonlissone
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Ok. Here's the result. I'm not sure what to think. Or maybe it's just my bad eyes
@60 Hz:
Off vs Low: i don't notice a difference. Slight drop in brightness. But let's call that irrelevant. Images (ufo) not crisp)
Low vs Medium: No noticable difference in motion blur. Further drop in brightness. Not too bad - close up to the screen.
Medium vs High: The images are now crisp. Massive difference. BUT the screen flicker is noticable to the eye. Especially for the brighter colors and white.
@120Hz:
Off vs Low: Slight motion blur Better than Mediun on 60HZ, but not as crisp as HIGH on 60Hz.
Low vs Medium: Good. Sweetspot. Drop in brightness not too bad. Looks like HIGH on 60Hz.
Medium vs High: No difference with Medium other than brightness drop. No flicker like on 60Hz.
Ok - now with playing Doom:
* 120HZ is much smooter than 60Hz.... But i prefer HDR in DOOM vs higher framerate. I think....
* Playing on 60HZ and setting true motion to HIGH reduces brightness to a degree that overall it still looks good. But lights in ceilings or neon signs, distant flames etc. things that really pop-up in HDR are now boring. I don't think this is an option. Also - i don't notice a sharper image when moving... and the flicker is less visible in darker areas but when larger areas are bright - it is noticable in game.
* At 120hz, the brightness on Medium (as high is no difference in Blur) is not that much lower than Off/Low. Although in this case none of it is HDR because of the bandwith limitations - and as i said HDR looks good in DOOM. For me - i just don't see less motion blur when moving my crosshair. Fast/slow.. doesn't really matter. Nor does flying debree, enemy rockets etc.
So - i'll stick to G-Sync HDR 60Hz for now... Until 3080Ti's become available. Then i'll do 120HZ HDR. I don't see any gaming value in BFI.
@60 Hz:
Off vs Low: i don't notice a difference. Slight drop in brightness. But let's call that irrelevant. Images (ufo) not crisp)
Low vs Medium: No noticable difference in motion blur. Further drop in brightness. Not too bad - close up to the screen.
Medium vs High: The images are now crisp. Massive difference. BUT the screen flicker is noticable to the eye. Especially for the brighter colors and white.
@120Hz:
Off vs Low: Slight motion blur Better than Mediun on 60HZ, but not as crisp as HIGH on 60Hz.
Low vs Medium: Good. Sweetspot. Drop in brightness not too bad. Looks like HIGH on 60Hz.
Medium vs High: No difference with Medium other than brightness drop. No flicker like on 60Hz.
Ok - now with playing Doom:
* 120HZ is much smooter than 60Hz.... But i prefer HDR in DOOM vs higher framerate. I think....
* Playing on 60HZ and setting true motion to HIGH reduces brightness to a degree that overall it still looks good. But lights in ceilings or neon signs, distant flames etc. things that really pop-up in HDR are now boring. I don't think this is an option. Also - i don't notice a sharper image when moving... and the flicker is less visible in darker areas but when larger areas are bright - it is noticable in game.
* At 120hz, the brightness on Medium (as high is no difference in Blur) is not that much lower than Off/Low. Although in this case none of it is HDR because of the bandwith limitations - and as i said HDR looks good in DOOM. For me - i just don't see less motion blur when moving my crosshair. Fast/slow.. doesn't really matter. Nor does flying debree, enemy rockets etc.
So - i'll stick to G-Sync HDR 60Hz for now...
Until 3080Ti's become available. Then i'll do 120HZ HDR. I don't see any gaming value in BFI.
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Thanks. Killing 'instance game response' did the trick
That's a shame. My understanding is that "Instant game response" is basically enabling low latency mode for whatever preset you are using so it disables some processing to give you lower input lag. For the C9 Rtings.com reports 50.6 ms input lag outside game mode which is going to be annoying to play with. My previous Samsung KS8000 TV was about 20 ms in SDR and 35 in HDR with game mode on and the difference was noticeable whereas the 20ms I was not bothered by at all and played plenty of input precise games through just fine.
So I guess BFI is not going to be an option for gaming but might give you slightly better motion on movies and TV. The C9 only has an on/off toggle for this and personally I did not notice any relevant difference when watching some HDR TV series.
If you are trying to spot BFI on vs off, it's best to look how a game is when the game runs at high framerate and you are moving faster. Everything will just stay in focus better.
RPGWiZaRD
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Would be curious how the 2020 motion smoothness settings stack up for TV use compared to last year, like do you notice any difference with low-medium setting for TV useage at all? Debating whether to go for CX or C9 for my parents, they are used to the motion smoothness of a plasma TV which really is brilliant for sports I have to say which is what they spend a lot of time watching. So far they always tend to say "our TV looks better" (mind you they are watching 720 or 1080p content most of the time which Plasma does brilliant job in regards to sharpness/artifacts of lower res content) watching some LCD based TVs in store so figured OLED is the way to go for them but unsure how much extra it's worth spending on CX over a C9.
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antonlissone
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I'd almost say i like motion less sharp in doom... on 60hz High it almost looks like stuttering when moving crosshair vertical. Like movies panning a camera at 24p... At 120HZ it kills HDR. I'll do another test at 1440p With HDR at 120hz. See if that yields different results for me.
You can tell the difference easily here: https://testufo.com/photo#photo=toronto-map.png
Try your luck at this one if you are up to it: https://testufo.com/mprt
At 1 ms persistence the map is basically as clear as if it were a still image. At best they are probably doing 50% duty cycle at 120 hz so the persistence is 4 ms with the highest setting. They didn't say there would be any new improvements à la Sony's X-Motion Clarity so there probably aren't any for now.
Given the high peak brightness of the panels now they could theoretically do 1 ms persistence and give 100 nits average brightness with 1/8 of the frame being active at 120 hz. Of course it would only be an SDR display then and the emitters would wear out a lot faster. So not really worth it for them. With better processing you could isolate the moving parts of the image and work with that like Sony probably did.
Try your luck at this one if you are up to it: https://testufo.com/mprt
At 1 ms persistence the map is basically as clear as if it were a still image. At best they are probably doing 50% duty cycle at 120 hz so the persistence is 4 ms with the highest setting. They didn't say there would be any new improvements à la Sony's X-Motion Clarity so there probably aren't any for now.
Given the high peak brightness of the panels now they could theoretically do 1 ms persistence and give 100 nits average brightness with 1/8 of the frame being active at 120 hz. Of course it would only be an SDR display then and the emitters would wear out a lot faster. So not really worth it for them. With better processing you could isolate the moving parts of the image and work with that like Sony probably did.
antonlissone
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I know in the UFO test you see a difference.... but in game i'm not so sure.
I just did 2540x1440p DOOM HDR/GSync with True Motion at High. You do notice things stay sharper at higher movement speed and when things get 'busy'... but the dimmer display is also visible in HDR mode. I don't know what i prefer at this point
I just did 2540x1440p DOOM HDR/GSync with True Motion at High. You do notice things stay sharper at higher movement speed and when things get 'busy'... but the dimmer display is also visible in HDR mode. I don't know what i prefer at this point
Ok. Here's the result. I'm not sure what to think. Or maybe it's just my bad eyes
@60 Hz:
Off vs Low: i don't notice a difference. Slight drop in brightness. But let's call that irrelevant. Images (ufo) not crisp)
Low vs Medium: No noticable difference in motion blur. Further drop in brightness. Not too bad - close up to the screen.
Medium vs High: The images are now crisp. Massive difference. BUT the screen flicker is noticable to the eye. Especially for the brighter colors and white.
@120Hz:
Off vs Low: Slight motion blur Better than Mediun on 60HZ, but not as crisp as HIGH on 60Hz.
Low vs Medium: Good. Sweetspot. Drop in brightness not too bad. Looks like HIGH on 60Hz.
Medium vs High: No difference with Medium other than brightness drop. No flicker like on 60Hz.
Ok - now with playing Doom:
* 120HZ is much smooter than 60Hz.... But i prefer HDR in DOOM vs higher framerate. I think....
* Playing on 60HZ and setting true motion to HIGH reduces brightness to a degree that overall it still looks good. But lights in ceilings or neon signs, distant flames etc. things that really pop-up in HDR are now boring. I don't think this is an option. Also - i don't notice a sharper image when moving... and the flicker is less visible in darker areas but when larger areas are bright - it is noticable in game.
* At 120hz, the brightness on Medium (as high is no difference in Blur) is not that much lower than Off/Low. Although in this case none of it is HDR because of the bandwith limitations - and as i said HDR looks good in DOOM. For me - i just don't see less motion blur when moving my crosshair. Fast/slow.. doesn't really matter. Nor does flying debree, enemy rockets etc.
So - i'll stick to G-Sync HDR 60Hz for now...
Interesting. High Trumotion at 4K/120 Hz should be quite noticeable increase in motion clarity. I believe from what I've read in the past, that is a 50% black frame insertion, so motion clarity should be doubled and in theory lose half the brightness. 60 Hz BFI shouldn't really be tested IMO, as 60 Hz is always too low of a frequency for non-irritating viewing. Remember; to properly test BFI your FPS should be locked to the refresh rate and V-Sync=ON. Otherwise you will get visual artifacts. So for 120 Hz BFI mode, make sure your DOOM FPS is locked at 120 with V-Sync ON.
Another good test like posted above is:
https://testufo.com/photo#photo=toronto-map.png&pps=960&pursuit=0&height=0
Now switch between the Trumotion settings at 4K/120. See the readability differences like on the "Union Station" text on the above moving map.
That is not correct. Only "Game" picture mode gives you the really low input lag with low latency mode. Testing with my high speed camera on my C9, every picture mode outside of "Game Mode" with low latency mode on gave a noticeable increase in input lag. I highly doubt it is any different on the CX considering they both have the same HDMI processor.
I know in the UFO test you see a difference.... but in game i'm not so sure.
I just did 2540x1440p DOOM HDR/GSync with True Motion at High. You do notice things stay sharper at higher movement speed and when things get 'busy'... but the dimmer display is also visible in HDR mode. I don't know what i prefer at this point
Could you double check that G-Sync and 4K/120Hz 4:2:0 doesn't work? What happens, the G-Sync check-mark in NVIDIA control panel becomes grayed out or what? I understand that with the G_Sync chip monitors that G-Sync does take some bandwidth overhead. But I thought the G-Sync compatible (chip-less) displays which are basically Freesync didn't have this overhead...
G-Sync is the strong suit. The CX having 120 hz BFI is however undoubtedly superior for ye olde 24 hz content with proper 5:5 pulldown. The C9's advantage at 12-bit 120 hz in 4:4:4 probably won't materialize given that the most recent 120 hz 4K 3D film in Gemini Man was an utter flop so there is no want or demand there at all for any Dolby Vision releases in that format for likely the next decade along with the movie industry being utterly destroyed. I also can't imagine that Nvidia would give LG the coveted G-Sync certification just to screw them over by relegating their freshest displays to 8-bit. So await driver/firmware updates which will most likely give you full use of the display.I know in the UFO test you see a difference.... but in game i'm not so sure.
I just did 2540x1440p DOOM HDR/GSync with True Motion at High. You do notice things stay sharper at higher movement speed and when things get 'busy'... but the dimmer display is also visible in HDR mode. I don't know what i prefer at this point
antonlissone
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At 4k 120hz 4:2:0 gsync will still state its on in the nvidia control panel. However if you run the nvidia pendulum demo? The gsync checkbox is off and you cannot enable it. Also the pendulum move isn’t as smooth.
Sorry, it looks like I got in the way of your reply to Vega above...
antonlissone
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He reports 3 things:
* EARC issues. Cannot test - not using this in my setup
* Black Levels in Dolby vision broken - i can test tonight when it's dark outside just running Nightflyer or something on netflix.
* Black levels in VRR are broken - i'll test this tonight as well in doom or any other game.
Other suggestions? I've looked at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php#blacktest.png but that seems to work perfectly (althought that is on the desktop).
elvn
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Non-BFI 60fps is a smearing mess at 16.6ms, but 120fps solid at 120hz is more like a "Soften" blur effect in photoshop, more "within the lines" of on screen objects and architecture's shapes or "Shadow masks". The sample and hold blur "image persistence" generally is most fuzzy when moving the viewport at high speed.
If using high BFI setting is flickering (as mentioned by multiple sources now) I'm sure it is eye fatiguing over time even when you aren't "noticing" the flickering.
That's not to say that very high BFI doesn't cut the blur down by a lot more...
... it's that there are massive tradeoffs imo: essentially reintroducing PWM/flicker, muting color brilliance and losing detail-in-colors, incompatibility with HDR color heights "HDR color volume" ~ HDR detail in colors, and apparently considerable additional input lag on these TVs. Medium sounds like it introduces tradeoffs more than it gains, low sounds like it suffers less but has negligible gains so why bother.
It does cut the color brightness down by a lot like that.
I also want to make sure you realize that OLED BFI is different than the old LCD backlight strobing as it is a per pixel strobe. I wasn't sure how it worked and looked that up earlier in this thread:
"rolling strobe on OLED can be fractional refreshes, so OLED BFI can actually be arbitrary lengths unrelated to refresh cycle length. Since the off-pass can chase behind the on-pass simultaneously on the same screen at an arbitrary distance""
Non-BFI 60fps is a smearing mess at 16.6ms, but 120fps solid at 120hz is more like a "Soften" blur effect in photoshop, more "within the lines" of on screen objects and architecture's shapes or "Shadow masks". The sample and hold blur "image persistence" generally is most fuzzy when moving the viewport at high speed.
If using high BFI setting is flickering (as mentioned by multiple sources now) I'm sure it is eye fatiguing over time even when you aren't "noticing" the flickering.
That's not to say that very high BFI doesn't cut the blur down by a lot more...
... it's that there are massive tradeoffs imo: essentially reintroducing PWM/flicker, muting color brilliance and losing detail-in-colors, incompatibility with HDR color heights "HDR color volume" ~ HDR detail in colors, and apparently considerable additional input lag on these TVs. Medium sounds like it introduces tradeoffs more than it gains, low sounds like it suffers less but has negligible gains so why bother.
It does cut the color brightness down by a lot like that.
I also want to make sure you realize that OLED BFI is different than the old LCD backlight strobing as it is a per pixel strobe. I wasn't sure how it worked and looked that up earlier in this thread:
"rolling strobe on OLED can be fractional refreshes, so OLED BFI can actually be arbitrary lengths unrelated to refresh cycle length. Since the off-pass can chase behind the on-pass simultaneously on the same screen at an arbitrary distance""
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Can confirm the Dolby Vision Black Crush. It's really bad.
Unable to test the other items.
(Owner of a CX 55")
Has any manufacturer actually managed to get 2020 models that is a clear improvement over the 2019 ones? I'm guessing we can't really blame this on COVID19 either since these sets should have been finalized well before that (although it could affect manufacturing and delivery of course).
Must say that I am also feeling more and more doubtful about replacing my gaming monitors with current TVs, they just does not feel ready even when they should be more than capable on a "panel level".
I don't have a C9 to compare to, but the reason I got the CX compared to the C9 was the 4k@120hz over HDMI 2.0 and the capability of using VRR/Freesync with next gen consoles. My mentality is it's worth it to spend a little extra and get the state-of-the-art, rather than getting last years model and wondering what I'm missing (and eventually it overwhelming me and I purchase the newest model anyway).
From what I've heard, picture quality between the two is a wash. The CX supposedly has a slightly different WRGB subpixel matrix, and the brightness is ever so slightly lower than the C9... both of which supposedly improve durability and increase resistance to burn-in. Only time will tell if this is true.
Also, I moved from a Dell 27" TN 144hz monitor to the CX. Even with the slightly lower refresh rate, the CX is a MASSIVE upgrade in picture quality and clarity. It also feels just as responsive as my previous Dell monitor, which is amazing considering the OLED is a lower refresh rate.
elvn
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 5,341
0
Ugh... ....... some comments from that video said the VRR black levels in both dolby and HDR10 are broken on the C9 as well as the CX, and that it has been broken from the start - ever since the VRR update itself came out (Oct. 2019 ?).
- DolbyVision, HDR10, HDR Black levels outside of VRR should work correctly on a C9, but Dolby vision black levels are broken on a CX currently
- eARC pass-through of uncompressed audio formats does work on the C9 from Rtings' review of the C9 (DTS-Master, ATMOS, etc) but not on the CX , at least as of now
- 48Gbps hdmi 2.1 can send 12bit 4k 120hz 444 which will translate to 10bit on a C9, so there is less question there about nvidia 10bit support to the TV's native specs (10 bit 4k 444 120hz) if nvidia releases 7nm hdmi 2.1 gpus. The CX has 40Gbps so needs nvidia to support 10bit hdmi 4k 120hz 444 off of a hdmi 2.1 gpu. So far nvidia supprts 8bit and 12bit over hdmi but only supports 10bit over displayport.
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There might be some enhancements to dark area details and color mapping for HDR1000 material down to OLED HDR ranges/limitations that are better on a CX for one thing.
BFI on the CX for the people who that is important to I guess though it doesn't matter to me.
The 48" size obviously
Will have to wait on professional reviews for a more direct comparison of new and updated features.
------------------------------------------------
They need to fix the
-VRR black level bug on both the C9 and CX
-Dolby Vision black level overall on the CX
-the uncompressed audio pass-through over eARC support on the CX
-confirm 10bit 4k 120hHz 444 VRR HDR support over hdmi 2.1 is coming from Nvidia (via Nvidia/LG partnership) for people considering buying it for that feature.
---------------------------------------------------
Ugh... ....... some comments from that video said the VRR black levels in both dolby and HDR10 are broken on the C9 as well as the CX, and that it has been broken from the start - ever since the VRR update itself came out (Oct. 2019 ?).
- DolbyVision, HDR10, HDR Black levels outside of VRR should work correctly on a C9, but Dolby vision black levels are broken on a CX currently
- eARC pass-through of uncompressed audio formats does work on the C9 from Rtings' review of the C9 (DTS-Master, ATMOS, etc) but not on the CX , at least as of now
- 48Gbps hdmi 2.1 can send 12bit 4k 120hz 444 which will translate to 10bit on a C9, so there is less question there about nvidia 10bit support to the TV's native specs (10 bit 4k 444 120hz) if nvidia releases 7nm hdmi 2.1 gpus. The CX has 40Gbps so needs nvidia to support 10bit hdmi 4k 120hz 444 off of a hdmi 2.1 gpu. So far nvidia supprts 8bit and 12bit over hdmi but only supports 10bit over displayport.
-----------------------------------------------
There might be some enhancements to dark area details and color mapping for HDR1000 material down to OLED HDR ranges/limitations that are better on a CX for one thing.
BFI on the CX for the people who that is important to I guess though it doesn't matter to me.
The 48" size obviously
Will have to wait on professional reviews for a more direct comparison of new and updated features.
------------------------------------------------
They need to fix the
-VRR black level bug on both the C9 and CX
-Dolby Vision black level overall on the CX
-the uncompressed audio pass-through over eARC support on the CX
-confirm 10bit 4k 120hHz 444 VRR HDR support over hdmi 2.1 is coming from Nvidia (via Nvidia/LG partnership) for people considering buying it for that feature.
---------------------------------------------------
delita
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2014
- Messages
- 1,897
To you guys who are planning on using the CX as a PC display...why do you care about eARC? I use it on my 65 C9 because its my living room TV routing my speaker set up thru the receiver which works perfectly...but for my PC application I use studio monitors routed through my Schiit DAC/AMP combo and could care less about eARC on that one.
Are you guys on same firmware??
I have instantaneous mode ON, picture set to game mode, simultaneously I have BFI set to auto which gives basically medium level blur reduction with only low brightness reduction. Both HDR and BFI auto do not add very much input lag, though it is discernable. I'm downloading Doom now to try it in game.
Wondering why you guys are getting different options than me. I'm using 65CX HDMI 1 input with an HTPC that has a 1060 6gb - PC mode.
One thing that is driving me absolutely nuts is screen shift keeps activating even though I have it off. I have to reset resolution and the screen shift settings sometimes multiple times to turn it off.
I have instantaneous mode ON, picture set to game mode, simultaneously I have BFI set to auto which gives basically medium level blur reduction with only low brightness reduction. Both HDR and BFI auto do not add very much input lag, though it is discernable. I'm downloading Doom now to try it in game.
Wondering why you guys are getting different options than me. I'm using 65CX HDMI 1 input with an HTPC that has a 1060 6gb - PC mode.
One thing that is driving me absolutely nuts is screen shift keeps activating even though I have it off. I have to reset resolution and the screen shift settings sometimes multiple times to turn it off.
antonlissone
Weaksauce
- Joined
- May 15, 2020
- Messages
- 85
I can confirm black is bugged with netflix dolby vision.
elvn
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 5,341
I have a 7.1 surround setup on small klipsch surround speakers and a different subwoofer in my pc room. I have some decent headphones (AKG 712's) I can plug into a receiver too. I am looking forward to "full" hdmi 2.1 with eARC support, which would avoid having to use the "phantom monitor" trick in order to get hdmi audio output from nvidia which I find buggy with my window placement software since the phantom monitor disappears any time I turn off the receiver, shuffling window positions, blinking monitors , and screwing up all memorized window positions and position hotkey placement. It also wastes a hdmi output on my gpu. The C9 has uncompressed audio format pass-through via e-ARC, 48Gbps hdmi 2.1 which is more guaranteed to get 120hz 4k 444 to the 10bit native monitor from a hdmi 2.1 gpu, and at least the black levels all work on non VRR HDR right now.
I'm dedicating the 48"CX (or 55" C9 if these support issues don't pan out) to being a gaming and media stage, with other monitor(s) in the array for static desktop/app windows. The OLED will be playing games, showing movies and videos, streams, and even high resolution photo and art slideshows/screensavers and perhaps audio visualizations at times. Some of those sources are uncompressed audio, 7.1 DTS-HD, uncompressed PCM 7.1, ATMOS, etc.
Btw Tidal and Amazon also have ATMOS music libraries that they market as "growing". (cordcutters article about Tidal ATMOS music). I'm mainly going to be using uncompressed audio for movies and FLAC audio files, but the Tidal ATMOS music support is intriguing if the library grows a lot in the future.
I want the display to be able to show uncompressed native video, and to pass through uncompressed audio sources untouched.
That means 10bit over nvidia hdmi 2.1 to the native 10bit 4k 120Hz 444 panel uncompressed. No DSC compression,not 8bit dithered~banding, not being forced to lower chroma, lowering Hz or upscaling of lower resolution. No cutting it down from 1:1 source material with available sources.
That also means uncompressed audio formats passed through untouched, uncompressed, uncut from the original source fidelity.
HDMI 2.1 inclusion was supposed to check all the boxes for eventual hdmi 2.1 gpus and other hdmi 2.1 sources. LG decided to take away or omit a bunch of those check-boxes on the CX, at least as it stands right now.
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Testing in game (Doom) - there's definitely an improvement in motion with BFI (use auto or high). It's most noticeable when strafing rather than aiming.
The problem is it gets thrown off by low frame rates or input lag not sure what exactly. Like it worked well at 1080p 120fps regardless of vsync. But if I ran at 4k with lower frame rates, input lag increased (not sure if just due to lower FPS itself) and the BFI gets thrown off to the point where it actually makes the motion worse. HDR itself didn't seem to affect. Also below 120hz the flicker is terrible.
The problem is it gets thrown off by low frame rates or input lag not sure what exactly. Like it worked well at 1080p 120fps regardless of vsync. But if I ran at 4k with lower frame rates, input lag increased (not sure if just due to lower FPS itself) and the BFI gets thrown off to the point where it actually makes the motion worse. HDR itself didn't seem to affect. Also below 120hz the flicker is terrible.
Enhanced Interrogator
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2013
- Messages
- 1,434
Were you monitoring your frame rates? Your frame rate has to precisely match your refresh rate to get proper motion on strobing/scanning displays.
Also try using "scanline-sync" from RTSS. It achieves v-sync without the input lag.
And have you tried any refresh rates between 60hz and 120hz with BFI? I'm wondering if all refresh rates are compatible, or just a select few.