Poll: AMD RX 5700 Series vs NVidia RTX Super. Which gets your money?

[Factum]

Nvidia's solution didn't work (How is ray tracing implemented in Battlefield..? ...), so Nvidia is now backtracking away from their own proprietary pre-baked AI learning effects and now showing Turing trying to use a limited set of the industry standard DirectX RT. (Do you understand this?)

And... how well do you think Turing implements DXR ? (which was NOT designed with Microsoft DirectX Ray-Tracing API). Turing coughs, hiccups and slows down your gameplay, because Turing uses Nvidia's ad-hoc ray-tracing solution. Doesn't matter what games come out in the future, the current crop of RTX cards will always choke when using ray tracing. As such, Nvidia's marketing gimmick "RTX On" doesn't just work...

Subsequently... until the next generation of 7nm ray-tracing GPUs come, the term "raytracing" is nothing other than a catch phrase for cheerleaders.

You are full of shit:

Direct3D 12 feature checker (July 2019) by DmitryKo (x64)
https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1840641/

Windows 10 version 1903 (build 18362.239 19h1_release) x64
Checking for experimental features SM6 TR4 FL1 META

ADAPTER 0
"NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080"
VEN_10DE, DEV_1E87, SUBSYS_1E8710DE, REV_A1
Dedicated video memory : 8010.0 MB (8399093760 bytes)
Total video memory : 40734.5 MB (42713180160 bytes)
Video driver version : 26.21.14.3136
Maximum feature level : D3D_FEATURE_LEVEL_12_1 (0xc100)
DoublePrecisionFloatShaderOps : 1
OutputMergerLogicOp : 1
MinPrecisionSupport : D3D12_SHADER_MIN_PRECISION_SUPPORT_NONE (0) (0b0000'0000)
TiledResourcesTier : D3D12_TILED_RESOURCES_TIER_3 (3)
ResourceBindingTier : D3D12_RESOURCE_BINDING_TIER_3 (3)
PSSpecifiedStencilRefSupported : 0
TypedUAVLoadAdditionalFormats : 1
ROVsSupported : 1
ConservativeRasterizationTier : D3D12_CONSERVATIVE_RASTERIZATION_TIER_3 (3)
StandardSwizzle64KBSupported : 0
CrossNodeSharingTier : D3D12_CROSS_NODE_SHARING_TIER_NOT_SUPPORTED (0)
CrossAdapterRowMajorTextureSupported : 0
VPAndRTArrayIndexFromAnyShaderFeedingRasterizerSupportedWithoutGSEmulation : 1
ResourceHeapTier : D3D12_RESOURCE_HEAP_TIER_2 (2)
MaxGPUVirtualAddressBitsPerResource : 40
MaxGPUVirtualAddressBitsPerProcess : 40
Adapter Node 0:    TileBasedRenderer: 0, UMA: 0, CacheCoherentUMA: 0, IsolatedMMU: 1, HeapSerializationTier: 0, ProtectedResourceSession.Support: 1
HighestShaderModel : D3D12_SHADER_MODEL_6_4 (0x0064)
WaveOps : 1
WaveLaneCountMin : 32
WaveLaneCountMax : 32
TotalLaneCount : 2944
ExpandedComputeResourceStates : 1
Int64ShaderOps : 1
RootSignature.HighestVersion : D3D_ROOT_SIGNATURE_VERSION_1_1 (2)
DepthBoundsTestSupported : 1
ProgrammableSamplePositionsTier : D3D12_PROGRAMMABLE_SAMPLE_POSITIONS_TIER_2 (2)
ShaderCache.SupportFlags : D3D12_SHADER_CACHE_SUPPORT_SINGLE_PSO | LIBRARY (3) (0b0000'0011)
CopyQueueTimestampQueriesSupported : 1
CastingFullyTypedFormatSupported : 1
WriteBufferImmediateSupportFlags : D3D12_COMMAND_LIST_SUPPORT_FLAG_DIRECT | BUNDLE | COMPUTE | COPY | VIDEO_DECODE | VIDEO_PROCESS | VIDEO_ENCODE (127) (0b0111'1111)
ViewInstancingTier : D3D12_VIEW_INSTANCING_TIER_3 (3)
BarycentricsSupported : 1
ExistingHeaps.Supported : 1
MSAA64KBAlignedTextureSupported : 1
SharedResourceCompatibilityTier : D3D12_SHARED_RESOURCE_COMPATIBILITY_TIER_1 (1)
Native16BitShaderOpsSupported : 1
AtomicShaderInstructions : 0
SRVOnlyTiledResourceTier3 : 1
RenderPassesTier : D3D12_RENDER_PASS_TIER_0 (0)
RaytracingTier : D3D12_RAYTRACING_TIER_1_0 (10)
AdditionalShadingRatesSupported : 1
PerPrimitiveShadingRateSupportedWithViewportIndexing : 0
VariableShadingRateTier : D3D12_VARIABLE_SHADING_RATE_TIER_2 (2)
ShadingRateImageTileSize : 16
BackgroundProcessingSupported : 1
Metacommands enumerated : 8
Metacommands [parameters per stage]:
Conv (Convolution)
[84: DescIn.DataType, DescIn.Layout, DescIn.Flags, DescIn.DimensionCount, DescIn.Size[0], DescIn.Size[1], DescIn.Size[2], DescIn.Size[3], DescIn.Size[4], DescIn.Stride[0], DescIn.Stride[1], DescIn.Stride[2], DescIn.Stride[3], DescIn.Stride[4], DescFilter.DataType, DescFilter.Layout, DescFilter.Flags, DescFilter.DimensionCount, DescFilter.Size[0], DescFilter.Size[1], DescFilter.Size[2], DescFilter.Size[3], DescFilter.Size[4], DescFilter.Stride[0], DescFilter.Stride[1], DescFilter.Stride[2], DescFilter.Stride[3], DescFilter.Stride[4], DescBias.DataType, DescBias.Layout, DescBias.Flags, DescBias.DimensionCount, DescBias.Size[0], DescBias.Size[1], DescBias.Size[2], DescBias.Size[3], DescBias.Size[4], DescBias.Stride[0], DescBias.Stride[1], DescBias.Stride[2], DescBias.Stride[3], DescBias.Stride[4], DescBias.IsNull, DescOut.DataType, DescOut.Layout, DescOut.Flags, DescOut.DimensionCount, DescOut.Size[0], DescOut.Size[1], DescOut.Size[2], DescOut.Size[3], DescOut.Size[4], DescOut.Stride[0], DescOut.Stride[1], DescOut.Stride[2], DescOut.Stride[3], DescOut.Stride[4], Mode, Direction, Precision, Stride[0], Stride[1], Stride[2], Dilation[0], Dilation[1], Dilation[2], StartPadding[0], StartPadding[1], StartPadding[2], EndPadding[0], EndPadding[1], EndPadding[2], DimensionCount, OutputPadding[0], OutputPadding[1], OutputPadding[2], OutputPadding[3], OutputPadding[4], GroupCount, Activation.Function, Activation.Params.first, Activation.Params.second, Activation.IsNull, BindFlags]
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CopyTensor
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2x2 Nearest neighbour Upsample
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[1: Unused]
[2: DstResource, SrcResource]

MVN (Mean Variance Normalization)
[67: DescIn.DataType, DescIn.Layout, DescIn.Flags, DescIn.DimensionCount, DescIn.Size[0], DescIn.Size[1], DescIn.Size[2], DescIn.Size[3], DescIn.Size[4], DescIn.Stride[0], DescIn.Stride[1], DescIn.Stride[2], DescIn.Stride[3], DescIn.Stride[4], DescScale.DataType, DescScale.Layout, DescScale.Flags, DescScale.DimensionCount, DescScale.Size[0], DescScale.Size[1], DescScale.Size[2], DescScale.Size[3], DescScale.Size[4], DescScale.Stride[0], DescScale.Stride[1], DescScale.Stride[2], DescScale.Stride[3], DescScale.Stride[4], DescScale.IsNull, DescBias.DataType, DescBias.Layout, DescBias.Flags, DescBias.DimensionCount, DescBias.Size[0], DescBias.Size[1], DescBias.Size[2], DescBias.Size[3], DescBias.Size[4], DescBias.Stride[0], DescBias.Stride[1], DescBias.Stride[2], DescBias.Stride[3], DescBias.Stride[4], DescBias.IsNull, DescOut.DataType, DescOut.Layout, DescOut.Flags, DescOut.DimensionCount, DescOut.Size[0], DescOut.Size[1], DescOut.Size[2], DescOut.Size[3], DescOut.Size[4], DescOut.Stride[0], DescOut.Stride[1], DescOut.Stride[2], DescOut.Stride[3], DescOut.Stride[4], Precision, CrossChannel, NormalizeVariance, Epsilon, Activation.Function, Activation.Params.first, Activation.Params.second, Activation.IsNull, BindFlags]
[1: PersistentResource]
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This is the part that debunk your sorry lies:
RaytracingTier : D3D12_RAYTRACING_TIER_1_0 (10)

 

[Stoly]

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/direct3d-feature-levels-discussion.56575/page-9#post-1840641

hmm dunno what that means... maybe upcoming features?


yup it seems like upcoming features.

BTW hadn't visited beyond3d forums in years

 

[kirbyrj]

Getting to know the tech from their side...and it saves the devs a LOT of time doing DXR like they did in Metro 2033.
Use the sun a global raytraced illumination...done!
To make the rasterized version an artist had to manually place lights, taking time (= $$$).
You should really start following devs on twitter...DXR are the new black to them.

No offense, but I don't like paying extra $$$ to "Get to know tech from their side." If they want MY money, I want to see a tangible benefit to ME.

 

[Factum]

No offense, but I don't like paying extra $$$ to "Get to know tech from their side." If they want MY money, I want to see a tangible benefit to ME.

Sure, sure you will wait until AMD supports DXR...but why do you bother to post now?

 

[Factum]

hmm dunno what that means... maybe upcoming features?


yup it seems like upcoming features.

BTW hadn't visited beyond3d forums in years

It a far better place for info than the “sour grapes” posters on most forums and quite the technical bunch.
They would ban a poster like Gamer X in a heartbeat if he posted the crap he posts here there though

 

[Factum]

And D3D12_RAYTRACING_TIER_NOT_SUPPORTED basically means it doesn't support raytracing.

Yes...like I said...NAVI

 

[CyberJunk]

View attachment 175171

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt/32.html

Some sites have lower, but generally temps are all over the place. Its this inconsistency that should worry potential buyers of ref cooler cards.

Well I actually own the card and i get a boost of 2021mhz at 83 degrees with a slight bump on the 70degree to 30% fan profile with high ambient room temps. My GTX 1080 would get in the low 80s too just for reference. I doubt any of these reviewers played with the voltages and clocks in wattman. For some reason AMD sets the gpu clock and voltage extremely high by default in Wattman. Like mine was set to 1208mv @ 2060mhz max clock with the stock fan profile which again AMD set extremely conservative! No wonder the reviewers see temps in the 90s and idle at 50's LOL ! you bump the fan speed up like 5-10% and the temps come down to comparable to what i had with a GTX 1080. So i take most of these reviewers with a grain of salt. Anything with a blower cooler they think is a POS with out testing it.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Anything with a blower cooler *[from AMD] they think is a POS with out testing it.

*they don't need to, AMD's never made a good one

 

[OutOfPhase]

Well I actually own the card and i get a boost of 2021mhz at 83 degrees with a slight bump on the 70degree to 30% fan profile with high ambient room temps. My GTX 1080 would get in the low 80s too just for reference. I doubt any of these reviewers played with the voltages and clocks in wattman. For some reason AMD sets the gpu clock and voltage extremely high by default in Wattman. Like mine was set to 1208mv @ 2060mhz max clock with the stock fan profile which again AMD set extremely conservative! No wonder the reviewers see temps in the 90s and idle at 50's LOL ! you bump the fan speed up like 5-10% and the temps come down to comparable to what i had with a GTX 1080. So i take most of these reviewers with a grain of salt. Anything with a blower cooler they think is a POS with out testing it.

Is it then a conclusion that the board as-shipped is compromised? I don't know why you lay this at the feet of the reviewers, and not AMD.

 

[CyberJunk]

I don't agree that they should have used a blower cooler. I'm not excusing that but doesn't mean the cooler is 100% total fail either it's fine for what it is. The problem i have with some of the reviews out there is it appears just ploped the card in and just ran benchmarks without really spending time with the card. There are some good reviews out their and those reviewers spent time with the card and play around with wattman and saw the potential in the card. it's a really great card for $399. I'm just saying i don't really miss my GTX 1080's cooler and the 5700XT is not the leaf blower that they make it out to be.

 

[Snowdog]

The problem i have with some of the reviews out there is it appears just ploped the card in and just ran benchmarks without really spending time with the card.

The purpose of reviews is to run cards at stock settings. Not spend time tinkering to improve on potentially weak stock settings. That was AMDs job.

 

[5150Joker]

But who are you?

Attack the messenger, then give your opinion on a broken Turing cards as proof as to how Nvidia is going to dominate consoles, cloud, and gaming? Your saying this with a strait face & your a techie..? Sound to me like you've blown so much smoke over your posting career, it's also become your life?

In respect, I will respond since you attempted to form a rebuttal. (Even though you actually didn't look at my post cadence, or frequency.)




I am not acting like Nvidia is coming out with 7nm, because they aren't.

Nvidia's 7nm GPU is about a year away from shelves. And Nvidia's answer to AMD's 7nm 2nd generation GPU was Turing SUPER. That is all Nvidia has... is just more Turing. Turing isn't any more powerful than Pascal, Turing doesn't do much more in Battlefield, than Pascal for upgrading for $800. As such, Turing doesn't do anything more for the gamer than Pascal. Turing and RTX are flops for Gamer's, because ad-hoc ray-tracing is not what any gamer wanted for their hard earned dollars. Three years after Pascal's high-end, Gamers were looking for more performance, not more pseudo fluff & marketing.

What I am saying is mirrored in nearly every review and everywhere else in the industry. Nvidia's ray tracing is ad-hoc attempt which didn't pan out. Where as Microsoft's DirectX Ray Tracing is the future and the next GPUs to be released, will have real raytracing implemented. (And not using nvidia's pseudo "RTX On" shenanigans.)



Subsequently, it seems like what you are actually trying to defend: is that Nvidia use to be the Premium Brand.

And having to argue those has-been facts, angers you that AMD's RDNA was kept so secret, and was so well developed, with so many game Developer's needs/wants..... that AMD's RDNA simply outclasses and outshines anything else. The entire Gaming Industry is on board with RDNA. So, the tides have changed... and such nvidia's dlss isn't the best (just more of Jensen marketing), while AMD's FidelityFX will be standardized in all games soon. Because Nvidia is no longer the leading force in the Gaming industry, AMD is..!!


Gamers today are looking forward at all the games coming out. And it is obvious RDNA is a better choice.

I'm convinced this is a troll account.

 

[Chimpee]

I'm convinced this is a troll account.

Or a bot or a blind fanboy, frankly I just don't know. Half the stuff he said is utter nonsense, like the part "The entire Gaming Industry is on board with RDNA.", what does that even mean? Last time I check, the gaming industry still create games to runs on AMD and NVidia.

 

[Snowdog]

I'm convinced this is a troll account.

I put him on ignore a couple of days ago. Not feeding him.

 

[Algrim]

I doubt any of these reviewers played with the voltages and clocks in wattman.

Launch day reviews are not going to be in-depth affairs unless the released card is so stable there are no last-minute BIOS and/or driver updates needed. An overclocking review; yeah, I'd hope the reviewer would take the time to get to know the card and its potential, overclocking and/or undervolting the card to see what it's capable of.

For some reason AMD sets the gpu clock and voltage extremely high by default in Wattman. Like mine was set to 1208mv @ 2060mhz max clock with the stock fan profile which again AMD set extremely conservative!

AMD sets voltages for the aggregate batch of cards and what it takes to make all cards in that batch stable. You say it has too much voltage and that's true for you but if AMD set all cards to the voltage that works for you and the card for someone else doesn't get past POST, well that would be on AMD. So they need to set it to a voltage that all cards can pass POST. You've been on these forums long enough to know better.

No wonder the reviewers see temps in the 90s and idle at 50's LOL ! you bump the fan speed up like 5-10% and the temps come down to comparable to what i had with a GTX 1080. So i take most of these reviewers with a grain of salt. Anything with a blower cooler they think is a POS with out testing it.

Of course they tested it; that's how you got to see the review in the first place. Noise is a subjective thing. I hate fan blower noise but I have no problem with the Harriers and F-35s that fly right over the house from the marine corps air base about two miles away.

 

[CyberJunk]

Launch day reviews are not going to be in-depth affairs unless the released card is so stable there are no last-minute BIOS and/or driver updates needed. An overclocking review; yeah, I'd hope the reviewer would take the time to get to know the card and its potential, overclocking and/or undervolting the card to see what it's capable of.



AMD sets voltages for the aggregate batch of cards and what it takes to make all cards in that batch stable. You say it has too much voltage and that's true for you but if AMD set all cards to the voltage that works for you and the card for someone else doesn't get past POST, well that would be on AMD. So they need to set it to a voltage that all cards can pass POST. You've been on these forums long enough to know better.



Of course they tested it; that's how you got to see the review in the first place. Noise is a subjective thing. I hate fan blower noise but I have no problem with the Harriers and F-35s that fly right over the house from the marine corps air base about two miles away.

I agree with all your points. I was expecting a harrier jet from this blower cooler but it wasn't that loud or had any kinda whine. It was quiet now if you boost the fan profile up to above 30% yeah you will hear a fan but it's not a jet or whiney noise. I don't think AMD should have used a blower style cooler. they're just asking for it.

 

[Susquehannock]

I'm convinced this is a troll account.

I put him on ignore a couple of days ago. Not feeding him.

My troll meter on that poster was pegged out in the review roundup thread long ago. Solidified when they called anyone running 1080p a little kid. No need for ignore since I can scroll past and not feed.

Back on track ... if I were to buy a card now it would probably be an RTX super just because of the 5700's noise/cooler. Six months from now when better cooling solutions are available, and Vulkan performance numbers in Doom: Eternal are known, most likely buy a 5700 XT.

 

[Dayaks]

But who are you?

Attack the messenger, then give your opinion on a broken Turing cards as proof as to how Nvidia is going to dominate consoles, cloud, and gaming? Your saying this with a strait face & your a techie..? Sound to me like you've blown so much smoke over your posting career, it's also become your life?

In respect, I will respond since you attempted to form a rebuttal. (Even though you actually didn't look at my post cadence, or frequency.)




I am not acting like Nvidia is coming out with 7nm, because they aren't.

Nvidia's 7nm GPU is about a year away from shelves. And Nvidia's answer to AMD's 7nm 2nd generation GPU was Turing SUPER. That is all Nvidia has... is just more Turing. Turing isn't any more powerful than Pascal, Turing doesn't do much more in Battlefield, than Pascal for upgrading for $800. As such, Turing doesn't do anything more for the gamer than Pascal. Turing and RTX are flops for Gamer's, because ad-hoc ray-tracing is not what any gamer wanted for their hard earned dollars. Three years after Pascal's high-end, Gamers were looking for more performance, not more pseudo fluff & marketing.

What I am saying is mirrored in nearly every review and everywhere else in the industry. Nvidia's ray tracing is ad-hoc attempt which didn't pan out. Where as Microsoft's DirectX Ray Tracing is the future and the next GPUs to be released, will have real raytracing implemented. (And not using nvidia's pseudo "RTX On" shenanigans.)



Subsequently, it seems like what you are actually trying to defend: is that Nvidia use to be the Premium Brand.

And having to argue those has-been facts, angers you that AMD's RDNA was kept so secret, and was so well developed, with so many game Developer's needs/wants..... that AMD's RDNA simply outclasses and outshines anything else. The entire Gaming Industry is on board with RDNA. So, the tides have changed... and such nvidia's dlss isn't the best (just more of Jensen marketing), while AMD's FidelityFX will be standardized in all games soon. Because Nvidia is no longer the leading force in the Gaming industry, AMD is..!!


Gamers today are looking forward at all the games coming out. And it is obvious RDNA is a better choice.

This delusional dribble brings me back to the Vega Rumor thread.

Anyone else enjoy reading that monster? Kept me entertained for years. There was a guy in that thread that also loved to choke on AMD’s girthy marketing.

Brings me back to good times lol.

Anyways - I think they should have launched with at least a dual fan design. I thought they learned from the 290x:

 

[sabrewolf732]

Nvidia's solution didn't work (How is ray tracing implemented in Battlefield..? ...), so Nvidia is now backtracking away from their own proprietary pre-baked AI learning effects and now showing Turing trying to use a limited set of the industry standard DirectX RT. (Do you understand this?)

And... how well do you think Turing implements DXR ? (which was NOT designed with Microsoft DirectX Ray-Tracing API). Turing coughs, hiccups and slows down your gameplay, because Turing uses Nvidia's ad-hoc ray-tracing solution. Doesn't matter what games come out in the future, the current crop of RTX cards will always choke when using ray tracing. As such, Nvidia's marketing gimmick "RTX On" doesn't just work...

Subsequently... until the next generation of 7nm ray-tracing GPUs come, the term "raytracing" is nothing other than a catch phrase for cheerleaders.

 

[5150Joker]

Picking on the GPU side I can get because they dont have a top competitor to the 2080Ti but bashing Ryzen shows your true colors as they are quite competitive there. I also dont get talking up RTX when your all into Multiplayer games that are first person shooters, where it's going to be the first thing you turn off to keep the fps up.

BTW Gideon, I hate AMD so much I recommend their processors to friends:

 

[DooKey]

5150Joker you just can't talk bad about AMD or recommend AMD when they have a bad/good product. The fanbois won't allow it.

 

[CyberJunk]

5700 XT blower cooler is not that loud

 

[OutOfPhase]

5700 XT blower cooler is not that loud

It's not loud compared to a jet or anything absurd, but it is noticeably and considerably louder than other options.

I have my own forum war in my house with my oldest kids. One prefers AMD and one prefers NV. Yeah, sometimes dinners are fun.

For a good school year I upgraded them both, so we have a 2060 Super and 5700XT in their boxes.
The 5700XT makes a significant amount of sound, while the NV is all but inaudible. Both are vendor editions, not third party.

To be fair - while considerably louder, the 5700XT's tone is not that irritating. I would call it "loud" for a video card, but not loud for a Harley or anything truly loud.

Everyone can make their own judgement on how much this matters - but it is absolutely not nothing. I personally would not want that sound in my office. But that's just my opinion, I am fussy about acoustics. My kiddo doesn't give two poops - and has headphones on anyway, and loves it. The other one plays with speakers and loves his NV, and never misses an opportunity to call his brother's machine a hair-dryer.

The point of all this - don't have kids.

 

[N4CR]

*they don't need to, AMD's never made a good one

Your blower hatefudboner is showing.
Funny how mine is fine and pretty quiet on a v64 'electric furnace'.

 

[5150Joker]

Sure, sure you will wait until AMD supports DXR...but why do you bother to post now?

I bet if the tables were turned and Navi had dxr but not Turing they would hype it to the moon. This is why I can't stand AMD fans--they're especially bad on reddit.

 

[Brackle]

I wont pick up an AMD. I still do recommend Nvidia as of right now. But the potential is there....Gotta give AMD props, the price/performance is great.

There are even some people getting 2ghz+ clocks on this thing.

All I know is, having a choice finally is what is needed. Now in some ways RDNA will be in more homes soon than any Nvidia card.....When you count consoles. You can already see the benefit of AMD Cards over Nvidia cards when it comes to games built on console first. Look at Forza!

All in all competition is good, and we need it.

 

[Factum]

I bet if the tables were turned and Navi had dxr but not Turing they would hype it to the moon. This is why I can't stand AMD fans--they're especially bad on reddit.

Yeah, just look at Asynchronous Computing...it got blasted all over...until NVIDIA beat the performance without...then suddenly...crickets.

 

[5150Joker]

Yeah, just look at Asynchronous Computing...it got blasted all over...until NVIDIA beat the performance without...then suddenly...crickets.

Yeah I remember how they trumpeted async as the next coming of Jesus for gaming and that one rts game nobody ever played (ashes of nobody cares) was in every review. Just goes to show what hot garbage most reviews are and biased.

 

[noko]

The purpose of reviews is to run cards at stock settings. Not spend time tinkering to improve on potentially weak stock settings. That was AMDs job.

Yes but also to find the potential for a card a good reviewer will consider temperature and results when cooled better. The stock fan curve for the 5700XT holds it back significantly.

Definitely differences in what people find useful, loud etc. Personally I wanted a blower card due to the fact it will be going into a small case (HTPC) later. It is definitely quieter than the A/C unit sitting next to it so in my case the noise is immaterial. For others the noise maybe not so acceptable.

 

[N4CR]

Yes but also to find the potential for a card a good reviewer will consider temperature and results when cooled better. The stock fan curve for the 5700XT holds it back significantly.

Definitely differences in what people find useful, loud etc. Personally I wanted a blower card due to the fact it will be going into a small case (HTPC) later. It is definitely quieter than the A/C unit sitting next to it so in my case the noise is immaterial. For others the noise maybe not so acceptable.

If I had an AC unit next to my case I'd be piping at least some of that through the case. Depending on if I can get away with minimal/no dielectric grease.

 

[noko]

If I had an AC unit next to my case I'd be piping at least some of that through the case. Depending on if I can get away with minimal/no dielectric grease.

Don’t understand the minimal/no dielectrics grease part. Meaning keeping card 100% stock?

 

[Factum]

If I had an AC unit next to my case I'd be piping at least some of that through the case. Depending on if I can get away with minimal/no dielectric grease.

Condensation might be an issue too.

 

[N4CR]

Don’t understand the minimal/no dielectrics grease part. Meaning keeping card 100% stock?

As per Factum dielectric grease stops condensation on sub-ambient cooled electronics. But can make changing components around affected areas a bitch.
That's why if you only partially divert it, it'll be not so liable to condensate.

 

[noko]

As per Factum dielectric grease stops condensation on sub-ambient cooled electronics. But can make changing components around affected areas a bitch.
That's why if you only partially divert it, it'll be not so liable to condensate.

An enclosed system as in keeping the moisture out condensation is not an issue. Also the coolest point in the system is the A/C unit evaporative coils which means the dew point of the computer and hotter parts are way above that. Unless the computer is exposed to humid air like opening up outside air flow into it the computer it will stay moisture free. I previously ran for almost a decade on the cold side, normally I kept it at 8c-12c, could go below freezing at the time but it wiped out two hard drives and figure mechanical devices and any lubricates did not like being too cold. GPUs and CPUs on the other hand did well. I always meant to design an easier better and more versatile configuration but never got around to it.

 

[Factum]

An enclosed system as in keeping the moisture out condensation is not an issue. Also the coolest point in the system is the A/C unit evaporative coils which means the dew point of the computer and hotter parts are way above that. Unless the computer is exposed to humid air like opening up outside air flow into it the computer it will stay moisture free. I previously ran for almost a decade on the cold side, normally I kept it at 8c-12c, could go below freezing at the time but it wiped out two hard drives and figure mechanical devices and any lubricates did not like being too cold. GPUs and CPUs on the other hand did well. I always meant to design an easier better and more versatile configuration but never got around to it.

It is not the temperature you have to watch out for as much as it is the delta.

 

[noko]

It is not the temperature you have to watch out for as much as it is the delta.

What do you mean the delta?

The dew point for an enclosed A/C cooled system will be set by the lowest temperature of the system as in the evaporative coil where any moisture that can come out at the lowest temperature would occur. Once the air warms up as in a computer case it will be above that dew point thus no moisture can come out. In this case the delta with the A/C unit being the coldest and Computer the warmest -> it will remain dry.

Second part is it is enclosed as in no mixing of air from external to internal thus no moisture added keeping the system dry.

As a note, I slightly pre-heated the air from the air conditioner to the computer case on a previous build (corrugated plastic pipe not insulated) to raised the temperature above the dew point - I found out that was not needed at all and just insulated everything. I could run sub-zero and have zero water inside the case, dry as a bone so to speak. The problem was only when the computer was cold and computer was opened up letting warmer more moist air in - you could literally see water droplets form on the motherboard and other surfaces since the system was no longer enclosed. Instead I would turn off the A/C unit and let the system warm up to ambient or higher and then open up the system -> no moisture would form.

So the bottom line here is keeping the computer above the dew point for the air circulating inside of it - it will remain dry.

 

[Factum]

Delta is delta?
I work in datacenters and we avoid big delta's (the span between cooler incomming air and hooter outgoing air) even if we control the humidity too.

 

[noko]

Delta is delta?
I work in datacenters and we avoid big delta's (the span between cooler incomming air and hooter outgoing air) even if we control the humidity too.

Is that more for keeping CPUs and components working as identical as possible to allow for easier management and optimizations broadly?

As for a single computer A/C cooled case there was a consistent variation, up/down of temperature like 8c to 12c and repeat due to thermostat controlling the A/C compressor. I figure over time solder joints being worked, even on a small scale over the repeated temperature changes and thus expansion and contraction as the temperature cycled. None of the CPUs, motherboards or GPUs ever failed even with years of service so I did not see that in the end as a problem. Only failure rate I had was when running too cold and lost some hard drives (twice) and some fans, once warmed up to around 10c that never occurred again. A totally SSD and fan less system other then a blower on the A/C unit may allow way below 0c temperatures consistently - never tested that theory.

Currently I don't run with an A/C cooled case but looking at doing some experiments which could make it very easy for anyone to do that if desired (as long as there is a window close by) rather cheaply. Anyways I found just an ordinary air cooler when you have 10c air going to it could be more effective then a water cooling loop for temperatures. This goes for every component in a computer, GPUs, VRMs, Power Supplies etc.

 

[Factum]

Is that more for keeping CPUs and components working as identical as possible to allow for easier management and optimizations broadly?

As for a single computer A/C cooled case there was a consistent variation, up/down of temperature like 8c to 12c and repeat due to thermostat controlling the A/C compressor. I figure over time solder joints being worked, even on a small scale over the repeated temperature changes and thus expansion and contraction as the temperature cycled. None of the CPUs, motherboards or GPUs ever failed even with years of service so I did not see that in the end as a problem. Only failure rate I had was when running too cold and lost some hard drives (twice) and some fans, once warmed up to around 10c that never occurred again. A totally SSD and fan less system other then a blower on the A/C unit may allow way below 0c temperatures consistently - never tested that theory.

Currently I don't run with an A/C cooled case but looking at doing some experiments which could make it very easy for anyone to do that if desired (as long as there is a window close by) rather cheaply. Anyways I found just an ordinary air cooler when you have 10c air going to it could be more effective then a water cooling loop for temperatures. This goes for every component in a computer, GPUs, VRMs, Power Supplies etc.

No, it because to big of a delta gives condensation...and copper, oxygen and water makes for a bad combo in any electronics.

 

[Gideon]

No, it because to big of a delta gives condensation...and copper, oxygen and water makes for a bad combo in any electronics.

Most of that will depend on humidity levels and the dew point, the more humid the climate is the more careful you need to be.