Vega Rumors

[razor1]

500gb/sec interlinks would require some serious transceivers, much akin to the memory interface - same speed or double amount of them really! I don't see that being a nothing extra silicon wise. If it was was just caching, then the GPU would thrash memory bandwidth if both are contending while processing data and it would be a waste of time in any workload requiring processing, would it not?

IIRC the main customers for SSG cards are oil/gas and people with huge datasets. I still can't wait to see if it ends up in Navi and what implications will be for game development, sudden texture changes and teleporting around massive persistent worlds would be possible... e.g. portal 3 open world or something..

The memory to the SSD will have that type of bandwidth not to the GPU The memory is the one that acts as a L3 or L4 cache.

And those oil and gas people, you think spending 100k vs 10k to get a tesla system which hell those can cruch their numbers quite a bit faster than a single SSG, what would they want to spend their money on? Mind you software too is already done, that market is pretty much a monopoly right now, as nV has been in that market since oh 3 to 5 years.

Hah 12mV is pretty crappy. What would you say is the average and what sample size roughly (if you care to say lol).

20mV I would say.

 

[Hameeeedo]

Physix
hairworks
HBOA
CUDA

Arguably gsync

Latest version of GPU PhysX works on AMD cards, see Metro Last Light
Latest version of HairWorks works on AMD as well, see Witcher 3, Far Cry 4 .. ect
HBAO+ works on AMD since day one
PCSS+ Shadows work on AMD as well

The NVIDIA exclusive effects are HFTS, VXAO, and TXAA, some of these effects are exclusive to Pascal GPUs only.

Clearly you have never owned some of the those cards and are pretty biased in your evaluation.
7970 was released to the 580, not the 680 which came few months later. Even so, it was a little slower on launch but picked up and overtook the 680 and beats it with more margin than the 680 beat it on launch. SO it was faster than a newer card. Same happened with the old X800XT.
Same goes for the 290x vs 780Ti - compare AIB to AIB and the 780Ti is noticeably slower, let alone in VRAM limited scenarios.

Kepler aging poorly is another matter entirely, it happened well after Maxwell release. Before that 680 and 780Ti were the faster cards. The 780 even got released well before the 290X.

And no 7970 and 680 are the same generation. You don't compare the new card to the previous generation, you don't see me comparing Pascal to Fiji do you?

My point was to his bullshit claim that amd got rid of mantle because it was a failure, not how many games there were with vulkan. I called vega a failure but i don't support bullshit made up fanboy claims.

Only fanboy claim here is yours, If Mantle was a success it would have stayed till this very moment, or at least linger to achieve some of it's goals. But it didn't and it had myraids of problems, among them is it's buggy implementation on new hardware and crappy forward compatibility. Excessive loading times, and increased VRAM requirements on 2GB cards. None of these issues got fixed, most games that promised Mantle support dropped it, and didn't even bother to adopt Vulkan or DX12. These are all the marks of a failed abandoned API. Even AMD pulled the plug on it out of the blue. Hell, you can't even run Mantle on a Fury or Vega for God's sake.

 

[ManofGod]

Latest version of GPU PhysX works on AMD cards, see Metro Last Light
Latest version of HairWorks works on AMD as well, see Witcher 3, Far Cry 4 .. ect
HBAO+ works on AMD since day one
PCSS+ Shadows work on AMD as well

The NVIDIA exclusive effects are HFTS, VXAO, and TXAA, some of these effects are exclusive to Pascal GPUs only.

Kepler aging poorly is another matter entirely, it happened well after Maxwell release. Before that 680 and 780Ti were the faster cards. The 780 even got released well before the 290X.

And no 7970 and 680 are the same generation. You don't compare the new card to the previous generation, you don't see me comparing Pascal to Fiji do you?


Only fanboy claim here is yours, If Mantle was a success it would have stayed till this very moment, or at least linger to achieve some of it's goals. But it didn't and it had myraids of problems, among them is it's buggy implementation on new hardware and crappy forward compatibility. Excessive loading times, and increased VRAM requirements on 2GB cards. None of these issues got fixed, most games that promised Mantle support dropped it, and didn't even bother to adopt Vulkan or DX12. These are all the marks of a failed abandoned API. Even AMD pulled the plug on it out of the blue. Hell, you can't even run Mantle on a Fury or Vega for God's sake.

Mantle was moved into their Direct X 12 and Vulkan API paths, not as much a failure as you would think.

 

[razor1]

Mantle was moved into their Direct X 12 and Vulkan API paths, not as much a failure as you would think.

No they weren't, DX12 was already in the works well before Mantle was even conceived, that is why MS was able to get out Forza so quickly. As I stated, if you want to see the roots of Mantle all ya need to do is download the leaked Xbox SDK. More correlation on PS4's sdk but that hasn't been leaked so can't share that info.

Vulkan uses some parts of Mantle, but as time goes on it will change even more, and as I stated before, with open committees like Vulkan whom ever has more marketshare and presence it will give them the advantage.

These are the same arguments that was talked about a year ago actually more than, and back then I showed the same things, why can't people remember these things? LOL, its plainly visible to see where Mantle came from. Because people that don't want to see things won't see things even when pointed out exactly where to find that information.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

I'm kind of surprised by the zealotry over Mantle- it was a successful, real-world proof of concept for low-overhead APIs, but it was not unique and it didn't really go anywhere.

 

[razor1]

I'm kind of surprised by the zealotry over Mantle- it was a successful, real-world proof of concept for low-overhead APIs, but it was not unique and it didn't really go anywhere.

yep exactly what it is

and it failed because



Carmack even stated what I said about what he stated right here lol.

Out of the three programmers, Carmack and Sweeny have been the grandfathers of 3d graphics programming and both of them didn't see eye to eye with guess who Anderrson when it came to Mantle and the direction the industry would go if Mantle was adopted by MS and Sony.

This was the same video I showed back then, don't see why people can't remember this lol. Ya guys love 3D, ya love games, ya love the graphics industry but when ya have a conference with two of the greatest minds in the 3d gaming world talk about things, only thing left is what AMD's marketing with Mantle?

Come on guys.

 

[JustReason]

Ok. For so many of you claiming to be gods among men you sure are ignorant or attempting to obfuscate to make your own means pliable. DX12/Vulkan/Mantle are in essence the FN SAME. Low level API means in simple terms using the hardware at an architecture level. There ain't but one FN way to do that. In high level, sure, many ways to skin a cat. And don't forget AMD did not bring Mantle, DICE did. And arguing semantics is petty. DX12 was started the day DX11 came out, hell probably before that. And along the way it likely changed a million times as each iteration of DX11 ie 11.1, 11.2, 11.3... were released. Mantle PUSHED for its release as it was receiving a shit-ton of positive media coverage. The consensus was WHY WASNT DX DOING THIS. And if DX12 was well in the works, as in having a hard release date, then we would have seen far stronger support rather than this half-assed approach received thus far. At least Doom Vulkan was a resounding success.

And for the love of all that is holy take your ignorant mental states to a Mantle thread and read what it did in the games that used it. CivBE was astounding for game responsiveness especially when zooming in and out ( a huge take away for many in the industry during the game reveal ). BF1 CF was the most mindblowing as the graphs were virtually straight lines for frame rates. Theif was using some memory thing but I didn't play much of it and it didn't get a lot of press so not sure of the verdict there.

Mantle did what it was supposed to do and then retired once the replacements came. No point in wasting funds when two much bigger entities are taking the helm, not to mention adding little to them if any. And again it was Dice that forced this hand for better control that DX11 wasn't giving them. Win/win then.

 

[razor1]

Ok. For so many of you claiming to be gods among men you sure are ignorant or attempting to obfuscate to make your own means pliable. DX12/Vulkan/Mantle are in essence the FN SAME. Low level API means in simple terms using the hardware at an architecture level. There ain't but one FN way to do that. In high level, sure, many ways to skin a cat. And don't forget AMD did not bring Mantle, DICE did. And arguing semantics is petty. DX12 was started the day DX11 came out, hell probably before that. And along the way it likely changed a million times as each iteration of DX11 ie 11.1, 11.2, 11.3... were released. Mantle PUSHED for its release as it was receiving a shit-ton of positive media coverage. The consensus was WHY WASNT DX DOING THIS. And if DX12 was well in the works, as in having a hard release date, then we would have seen far stronger support rather than this half-assed approach received thus far. At least Doom Vulkan was a resounding success.

And for the love of all that is holy take your ignorant mental states to a Mantle thread and read what it did in the games that used it. CivBE was astounding for game responsiveness especially when zooming in and out ( a huge take away for many in the industry during the game reveal ). BF1 CF was the most mindblowing as the graphs were virtually straight lines for frame rates. Theif was using some memory thing but I didn't play much of it and it didn't get a lot of press so not sure of the verdict there.

Mantle did what it was supposed to do and then retired once the replacements came. No point in wasting funds when two much bigger entities are taking the helm, not to mention adding little to them if any. And again it was Dice that forced this hand for better control that DX11 wasn't giving them. Win/win then.

Don't try to rewrite history, you don't know better than Carmack or Sweeny, and Andersson is a serious newbie compared to them in the 3d world. The reason why Dice, Andersson were there was because AMD put them in that position.

Doom Vulkan was a success because its ID and they have one the best engine programmers in Industry. Dice couldn't do that with Mantle or Dx12 what ID with did Vulkan.

I just linked a video where these guys talk about, and the pros of LLAPI but 2 of the 3 stated Mantle was not the right direction for the industry as a whole, the concepts of Mantle are great, but Mantle as a whole, no. Too much control in one players hands, right now we have two organizations in control, well 3, Sony, MS, and Vulkan, all three of the organizations have no vested interest in the graphics hardware industry which is why its worked as an impartial system. These three organizations don't care about the underlying hardware nor do they directly profit from that.

AMD pulled a 3Dfx, what 3Dfx did with glide. They knew what they were doing and they also knew it wouldn't go in the favor most likely at least from MS's side, Sony on the other hand I think they thought they would be able to get that. That is just the way it is with power whom ever has it won't relinquish it. But they took the chance, because the risk reward ratio was enormous. Even though Mantle wasn't adopted as a whole, it still influenced the industry in that direction. If AMD can't capitalize on what Mantle did (push DX12 out faster and Vulkan adoption of core components) it will be a short term gain. Another words if they don't start taking serious marketshare away from nV, in the long run it will hurt them.

And now we have it, what I stated a year and half ago actually much longer think I stated in 2013 even before that video. AMD no longer has a DX12 advantage and the last hope is Vulkan where we only have one marquee game with that. Well that too will soon be going towards nV, open committee where nV traditionally has more say in such matters because they spend the time and resources to do it. All this and now look at where they are hardware wise. Minimum a generation and soon to be two generations behind nV if nV chooses to release Volta early next year. That was the risk AMD and RTG took, and now it has begun to seriously hurt them.

 

[Ieldra]

Ok. For so many of you claiming to be gods among men you sure are ignorant or attempting to obfuscate to make your own means pliable. DX12/Vulkan/Mantle are in essence the FN SAME. Low level API means in simple terms using the hardware at an architecture level. There ain't but one FN way to do that. In high level, sure, many ways to skin a cat. And don't forget AMD did not bring Mantle, DICE did. And arguing semantics is petty. DX12 was started the day DX11 came out, hell probably before that. And along the way it likely changed a million times as each iteration of DX11 ie 11.1, 11.2, 11.3... were released. Mantle PUSHED for its release as it was receiving a shit-ton of positive media coverage. The consensus was WHY WASNT DX DOING THIS. And if DX12 was well in the works, as in having a hard release date, then we would have seen far stronger support rather than this half-assed approach received thus far. At least Doom Vulkan was a resounding success.

And for the love of all that is holy take your ignorant mental states to a Mantle thread and read what it did in the games that used it. CivBE was astounding for game responsiveness especially when zooming in and out ( a huge take away for many in the industry during the game reveal ). BF1 CF was the most mindblowing as the graphs were virtually straight lines for frame rates. Theif was using some memory thing but I didn't play much of it and it didn't get a lot of press so not sure of the verdict there.

Mantle did what it was supposed to do and then retired once the replacements came. No point in wasting funds when two much bigger entities are taking the helm, not to mention adding little to them if any. And again it was Dice that forced this hand for better control that DX11 wasn't giving them. Win/win then.

Nah, this is absurd. Just because you label something a LLAPI doesn't make it identical to everything else with the same label.

CUDA is a relatively low level api. So it's the same as dx12?
What are you on about? Low level is a relative term, it doesn't actually mean anything on its own.

You still don't understand the most fundamental condition that needs to be met for a developer to choose vulkan/d3d12; they need to have the know-how to leverage the features, which means you need more experienced programmers, who expect higher salaries, which inflates production costs.

 

[razor1]

Nah, this is absurd. Just because you label something a LLAPI doesn't make it identical to everything else with the same label.

CUDA is a relatively low level api. So it's the same as dx12?
What are you on about? Low level is a relative term, it doesn't actually mean anything on its own.

You still don't understand the most fundamental condition that needs to be met for a developer to choose vulkan/d3d12; they need to have the know-how to leverage the features, which means you need more experienced programmers, who expect higher salaries, which inflates production costs.

And time, also we have seen what programmers with limited experience have done with DX12 and how much of a mess it was with new cards and current gen cards, AKA Hitman, actually all of AMD's game evolved games that came with DX12 patches had issues at launch, Hitman was the one that had the most problems.

 

[Hameeeedo]

DX12/Vulkan/Mantle are not low level APIs, they are lower level APIs, They are closer to the metal than say DX11 and OpenGL, but they are not really that close. They still retain a lot of abstractions and they still need frequent driver involvement. A true low level API won't require that.

 

[razor1]

DX12/Vulkan/Mantle are not low level APIs, they are lower level APIs, They are closer to the metal than say DX11 and OpenGL, but they are not really that close. They still retain a lot of abstractions and they still need frequent driver involvement. A true low level API won't require that.

True and closest to metal programming is ASM, and no programmer whats to go back to that lol.

 

[Ieldra]

True and closest to metal programming is ASM, and no programmer whats to go back to that lol.

Lazy bastards, real men can write machine code directly

 

[razor1]

lol yeah they can but with the complexity of software now, it will take decades

 

[Ieldra]

lol yeah they can but with the complexity of software now, it will take decades

Write a a modern shader directly in machine code is like a university assignment from hell lol

 

[NKD]

It was a failure, MS and Sony both told AMD to shove Mantle you know where. AMD tried a power play with Mantle and they didn't like it, and did their own thing. Mantle was never going to be a success, MS nor Sony will ever give up that kind of control over their own consoles or in MS's case the entire game industry. After all that then AMD decided to Mantle on its own and that didn't last long. The final breath of Mantle was giving it away free to the Vulkan committee when AMD realized it was going to be able to go against DX12.

Don't ya remember how Adorned twisted having all three consoles and then using Mantle to leverage all of them to their favor, it was part of his Master Plan, he got one thing right it was AMD's plan to do it, but noone else in the industry was going to let them do it and by the time he released that video the base of that Master Plan already failed. Carmack even stated when asked about Mantle and its adoption by the big two, it would be dangerous if Sony and MS went with Mantle.

How many times have we seen companies try to influence MS or encroach on MS's turf and its always backfired lol. Intel, nV both tried to push MS and they weren't able to do it and both got hurt by MS's decisions yet AMD is going to try and succeed, no not going to happen and it didn't happen.

What AMD wanted to do is have all consoles and PC's under one API that they controlled, that was their goal, it was easy to see because they said it was, they said in interviews it would be nice for "simplicity" reasons. But everyone in the industry could see through that, they wanted to control everything at a API level and anyone that has control right now would not give that up easily. That was the ultimate goal of Mantle, not all that LL BS, cause nV didn't even need all that because their DX11 drivers were that much better than AMD DX11 or 12's less overhead.

Just look at what happens one nV has that much control over HPC and DL markets with CUDA lol. You think AMD will play nice if they had that control in the gaming industry?

Okay!

 

[cageymaru]

Aggregate of performance metrics between high end video cards from various reviewers of the AMD RX Vega launch. You can see how some of your favorite review websites overall scored Vega's performance.
https://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/la...ega/launch-analyse-amd-radeon-rx-vega-seite-2

Here is one chart from page 3 as a sneak peek.

 

[Dayaks]

Aggregate of performance metrics between high end video cards from various reviewers of the AMD RX Vega launch. You can see how some of your favorite review websites overall scored Vega's performance.
https://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/la...ega/launch-analyse-amd-radeon-rx-vega-seite-2

Here is one chart from page 3 as a sneak peek.

Neat. They were all pretty close IMO. +/-6%? Seems reasonable.

 

[NKD]

With Hairworks AA is, AMD's chips use more bandwidth, AA more triangles, more bandwidth needed. Another weakness that was exploited.

Anything and everything that could hurt AMD with triangles was done lol, and the only way around it was to have separate settings.

Why was it done, that is business. Just like AMD did with async compute.

is it malicious code, no, its just the way it is.

Now AMD called foul on nV for not having async compute, but now it doesn't even matter even on their poster child game AOTS, nV's Maxwell architecture still is comparable to GCN equivalents even when they are running async compute and Maxwell is not. My understanding is nV did quite a bit of driver work to get that performance out of that game. For a game that has so few users now nV took it upon themselves, when they had time to do the work. Has AMD done the same with DX11 driver overhead? It would help much more than just one title, it was noticed in oh 2015. Still no changes.

nV is proactive because they can be and have the money to do it (even when they were bleeding money they pushed it to do it, a risk very few companies would take because its way different than the actual business plan). AMD can't do it because of the lack of resources. To get those resources they need to make better products, but when they had good products they weren't able to capitalize on it, even when ATi was around. Another words, this is a management problem, now that management is gone, but still doing the same things? We see it with HSA, RoCm, all the same tactics, its a blame game, then oh its not working lets go to something else. They need to invest money and sustain that investment without changing course mid way through because nothing has happened in short term.

Simply put resources! nvidia probably pays people more, has better talent than AMD. While AMD seems to be doing things in China! They just might not have the same supervision that nvidia has on their products. Nvidia does what they put their mind to it. Whether is driver magic or hardware. Both teams aren’t just in sync. While AMD outsources everything it seems.

 

[Presbytier]

Simply put resources! nvidia probably pays people more, has better talent than AMD. While AMD seems to be doing things in China! They just might not have the same supervision that nvidia has on their products. Nvidia does what they put their mind to it. Whether is driver magic or hardware. Both teams aren’t just in sync. While AMD outsources everything it seems.

Which is actually a good thing. The easy thing for NVIDIA would be to get complacent but they genuinely try to keep pushing themselves in both the hardware and software department. Sure like all companies they screw up from time to time, but with very little consumer GPU competition we could be far worse off.

 

[razor1]

Simply put resources! nvidia probably pays people more, has better talent than AMD. While AMD seems to be doing things in China! They just might not have the same supervision that nvidia has on their products. Nvidia does what they put their mind to it. Whether is driver magic or hardware. Both teams aren’t just in sync. While AMD outsources everything it seems.

That is part of it, but when a plan fails or falls short for AMD, they do a 360 and start something else, that is not a good way to do business. It takes time to monetize a project, it doesn't happen over night. Even in one year if that group can show they are starting to make money, then two years show so more, three years is when they really should be able to start forecasting accurately their growth rate and by 5 years turn around profit. We see within 2 yeas AMD flip flopping on their projects. Of course they have more information then we do when it comes to the financial side of their projects but still, how many times have we seen that? That is disconcerting. Why burn resources for a new project which will also be cut down in a couple of years.

We see this in AMD marketing and branding, changing names left and right lol, you don't get anywhere in branding when ya do that. The only time ya change a name is when something fails, like Pentium 4. Like Geforce FX.

Intel with Core series started when 10 years ago, still the same core series. nV with Geforce, that is there thing. AMD has multiple names for CPU's for the past few generations, and then you have Radeon r, rx, hd, and what ever else. Too many names, switching too fast.

Zen was a hail mary, if they didn't do Zen and put all their eggs in one basket they would be dead. But its still not over yet, we don't know how Intel will respond for another year or two. We don't really know AMD's future roadmap products in-depth yet either.

AMD can't sustain themselves on hail marys, yeah short term will help them keep going but a one off never works well, they need a track record that keeps on going for numerous generations both on the GPU and CPU side for any pressure to be put on Intel and nV. Otherwise its just AMD playing in a sand box and Intel and nV are the parents watching over them.

 

[Captain Newmackwa]

The problem with AMD is that they simply don't have the financial resources to back their initiatives which they end up throwing out there as "open standards" or "open source" and hope the software industry would be willing to adopt them. Obviously, AMD's direct competitors lack the incentive to support them as well and AMD know this. In reality, if we look at whats happened to Mantle (Vulkan?), HSA and OpenGPU, either adoption is painfully slow or hit a dead end altogether.

Big companies like Microsoft, Apple and Nvidia have the money, marketshare and support infrastructure for their proprietary tech to encourage the ISVs to adopt them hence, these move forward at a faster pace and have a higher chance of avoiding becoming vaporware. All of this is done to serve their own interests without a doubt, but it also follows that these features usually may offer additional value to their partners and customers

It's only FreeSync that seems to have gained any traction in the industry and even then, the implementation of the variable refresh rate experience seems to be fragmented with varying freesync ranges and LFC support across monitor models since AMD's Freesync certification requirements seems to be very lax at the moment. For now, it's just a checkbox to be ticked by monitor OEMs to be able to market their monitors to the gaming crowd. On the other hand, Nvidia seems to have settled on positioning G-sync as a premium variable refresh solution since they don't want to compromise the experience whatsoever and it looks like G-sync won't be going away anytime soon since Nvidia is still in a position to allow it to continue its course. Regardless, right now, there seems to be a place for both variable refresh solutions in the market.

 

[Presbytier]

The problem with AMD is that they simply don't have the financial resources to back their initiatives which they end up throwing out there as "open standards" or "open source" and hope the software industry would be willing to adopt them. Obviously, AMD's direct competitors lack the incentive to support them as well and AMD know this. In reality, if we look at whats happened to Mantle (Vulkan?), HSA and OpenGPU, either adoption is painfully slow or hit a dead end altogether.

Big companies like Microsoft, Apple and Nvidia have the money, marketshare and support infrastructure for their proprietary tech to encourage the ISVs to adopt them hence, these move forward at a faster pace and have a higher chance of avoiding becoming vaporware. All of this is done to serve their own interests without a doubt, but it also follows that these features usually may offer additional value to their partners and customers

It's only FreeSync that seems to have gained any traction in the industry and even then, the implementation of the variable refresh rate experience seems to be fragmented with varying freesync ranges and LFC support across monitor models since AMD's Freesync certification requirements seems to be very lax at the moment. For now, it's just a checkbox to be ticked by monitor OEMs to be able to market their monitors to the gaming crowd. On the other hand, Nvidia seems to have settled on positioning G-sync as a premium variable refresh solution since they don't want to compromise the experience whatsoever and it looks like G-sync won't be going away anytime soon since Nvidia is still in a position to allow it to continue its course. Regardless, right now, there seems to be a place for both variable refresh solutions in the market.

People are buying freesync monitors because they are cheap and generally don't cost extra {that was my reason}, but honestly how many of those freesync owners actually use Radeon cards? If you look up high refresh rate gaming monitors for the exception of the ridiculously expensive gsync monitors all have freesync as it does not cost the panel makers any extra money. It is an adoption that really does not actually benefit the majority of gamers as most PC gamers use NVIDIA. So like you pointed out freesync is just a check mark for the box.

 

[razor1]

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/xfx-am...ess-3-0-graphics-card/6084601.p?skuId=6084601

100 bucks more for the 56, nothing about games.

 

[ir0nw0lf]

Before everyone flies off the handle about Vega 56 not coming out at $399 or whatnot, Newegg supposedly had them for that price, according to other sites.

 

[Gideon]

Before everyone flies off the handle about Vega 56 not coming out at $399 or whatnot, Newegg supposedly had them for that price, according to other sites.

They will be gone, miners will be all over them.

 

[Ocellaris]

I like how your view of Mantle is that AMD w

Before everyone flies off the handle about Vega 56 not coming out at $399 or whatnot, Newegg supposedly had them for that price, according to other sites.

Yes for like 2 minutes.

"Plenty of stock for gamers" - AMD 2017

 

[cageymaru]

I like how your view of Mantle is that AMD w


Yes for like 2 minutes.

"Plenty of stock for gamers" - AMD 2017

Can't stop the miners. They bought everything instantly.

Now to go read the trail of tears on the AMD Reddit how AMD should identify miners and stop them from using buying scripts to purchase all the video cards in less than 15 seconds.

 

[ir0nw0lf]

Yes for like 2 minutes.

"Plenty of stock for gamers" - AMD 2017

2 minutes or not, point was that people are whining already about the pricing on these cards being >$399 just like they did about Vega 64 pricing. I have read rumblings of the $399 being a launch-day only price bait-n-switch fiasco like the Vega 64 launch day pricing.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Before everyone flies off the handle about Vega 56 not coming out at $399 or whatnot, Newegg supposedly had them for that price, according to other sites.

And if we're going to be honest, that price must be ignored until available stock and competition force the price back down.

 

[razor1]

They will be gone, miners will be all over them.

Its not miners there is no stock of these cards, AMD is having serious supply issues or holding back supply.

That guy that bought Vega for mining, and talking about solar panel, he didn't do the math, otherwise he would have know solar panals he will not be able to get his money back.

 

[cageymaru]

And if we're going to be honest, that price must be ignored until available stock and competition force the price back down.

Why? AMD doesn't make more when retailers jack the price up. I don't understand that logic. Now I wouldn't recommend spending over the MSRP on these things. But in the end:

Vega 56 (regular edition) is a $399 card.
Vega 64 (regular edition) is a $499 card.

Paying over that is validating retailers that jack up prices. Now the extra value that bundles have is something else entirely and I would only spend MSRP on those also.

 

[cageymaru]

Its not miners there is no stock of these cards, AMD is having serious supply issues or holding back supply.

That guy that bought Vega for mining, and talking about solar panel, he didn't do the math, otherwise he would have know solar panals he will not be able to get his money back.

The cards sell out in less than 15 seconds. I really doubt that consumers are using purchasing scripts to get through checkout that fast. Try to buy something from NewEgg and see if you can get through the entire checkout process in 15 seconds or less with your CC or PayPal information saved in the system. Maybe some gamers have really fast fingers?

 

[pandora's box]

wtf, already $100 over MSRP....

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Why? AMD doesn't make more when retailers jack the price up. I don't understand that logic. Now I wouldn't recommend spending over the MSRP on these things. But in the end:

Vega 56 (regular edition) is a $399 card.
Vega 64 (regular edition) is a $499 card.

Paying over that is validating retailers that jack up prices. Now the extra value that bundles have is something else entirely and I would only spend MSRP on those also.

You don't understand not using a price that you can't actually pay?

 

[cageymaru]

You don't understand not using a price that you can't actually pay?

I would wait for the correct price point to come into stock. I got my Vega64 for $499. The problem is that there are people that absolutely REFUSE to wait and are ready an willing to spend $700 on a $400 card. That's my rough estimate for where the Vega56 pricing is going to end up.

Those are the people that retailers are waiting for and giggling like children when they click their store page and buy one.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

I would wait for the correct price point to come into stock.

So you do understand the logic behind ignoring unavailable MSRP prices, then?

 

[cageymaru]

So you do understand the logic behind ignoring unavailable MSRP prices, then?

Hmm. In Houston, Texas there was a man selling bottled Dasani water for $15 or $20 a package before the hurricane hit and subsequent flooding that happened. This water sold for $3 a package in the store across the road from him. People who went to the store were unable to purchase water because this guy bought it all up and was scalping it at a huge markup.

So do we march with our pitchforks against the store for not having water at $3 MSRP?

Do we march against Dasani for pricing their water crazily above MSRP?

Do we go to the retailer in the parking lot selling water for crazy prices and tell him that he is a bastard for purchasing all the water and reselling it for prices that people can't afford?

Who do you blame?

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Hmm. In Houston, Texas there was a man selling bottled Dasani water for $15 or $20 a package before the hurricane hit and subsequent flooding that happened. This water sold for $3 a package in the store across the road from him. People who went to the store were unable to purchase water because this guy bought it all up and was scalping it at a huge markup.

So do we march with our pitchforks against the store for not having water at $3 MSRP?

Do we march against Dasani for pricing their water crazily above MSRP?

Do we go to the retailer in the parking lot selling water for crazy prices and tell him that he is a bastard for purchasing all the water and reselling it for prices that people can't afford?

Who do you blame?

The companies that didn't send enough bottled water.

 

[_mockingbird]

Hmm. In Houston, Texas there was a man selling bottled Dasani water for $15 or $20 a package before the hurricane hit and subsequent flooding that happened. This water sold for $3 a package in the store across the road from him. People who went to the store were unable to purchase water because this guy bought it all up and was scalping it at a huge markup.

So do we march with our pitchforks against the store for not having water at $3 MSRP?

Do we march against Dasani for pricing their water crazily above MSRP?

Do we go to the retailer in the parking lot selling water for crazy prices and tell him that he is a bastard for purchasing all the water and reselling it for prices that people can't afford?

Who do you blame?

The authorities are probably too busy to arrest him for operating a business without a license and price gouging.