WannaCrypt Makes an Easy Case for Linux

[heatlesssun]

Since I'm retired I can't measure productivity since I count a good day as waking up and getting up ( ), but have you found that your efficiency/productivity is increased and how are you measuring that? I'm interested because before I retired one of things I did was right justifications for desktop upgrades for myself and the people I supervised when the need arose. Efficiency and productivity were to points I always included. Then I had better show that those goals were met in a reasonable period of time, or further upgrades were out of the question.

Efficiency and productivity are driven by what people are used to or can adapt to generally speaking I think. How fast someone bangs out a document or code, not really sure how much that has to do with the OS if one is comfortable with the general layout of the OS UI and basics. Otherwise almost all productive work is done inside of applications and those, where they are cross-platform like almost all of the good productivity apps under Linux, work identically across platforms.

 

[Qchan]

comp.os.linux.help ›

OK so the oldest Unix related post of mine I can find on short notice is http://ftp.pwr.wroc.pl/pub/software/mail/pine/pine-info/pine-info.1995.11 search for "From: Karoly Negyesi <chx@turan>" also https://groups.google.com/forum/#!s....hu/alt.bbs.internet/DomMmrHjUHg/xgc4P15Ar8YJ was posted from an Ultrix box late 1993 (turan.elte.hu was a Solaris box and gallai was a Decstation, check the list https://listbox.elte.hu/pipermail/eltenet-l/1999-May/000107.html here). Hard to find any Linux related postings of mine this old but yes I was doing Unix stuff back then. Probably the oldest Linux post would be from the paper Chip Magazine in early 1994 which no longer has an official archive online... an unofficial scanned archive is at https://mega.nz/#F!n1JUACzT!3a3RZFWxHlQDvIiXn1Aqkg but I doubt you'd understand much unless you speak Hungarian.

Edit: this is http://www.team.net/html/british-cars/1994-06/msg00878.html from 1994 where my brother announced his auto picture archive but what matters here is that I am posted as root@ a public facing server. That was a 486 with Slackware which I installed and maintained. Nothing is hard proof but what do you expect from this many decades back?

Edit2: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/"ktud.elte.hu"|sort:relevance/comp.os.linux.help/uKzPHYhlhNU/LzkVwAZcfG8J https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.os.linux.help/"Charlie$20Negyesi"|sort:relevance/comp.os.linux.help/X6HzbLLMqRw/rN6Pvvnvvi8J these are little, struggling me posting in comp.os.linux.help in 1994 April. If I am trolling, I sure as hell prepared long for it. And kept appearances up because even if you don't speak Hungarian, there's a steady stream of Linux posts to the Hungarian Linux list https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/hun.lists.mlf.linux/negyesi|sort:relevance here from 1996 to 2007.

You might disagree with my opinion on Linux but my experience is real and impossible to deny. If you author search chx on bbs.archlinux.org you will find quite a few posts since 2012 when I switched to Arch complaining about update breaking this or that. I switched to Arch because .... the Samsung printer I had then stopped working on Ubuntu after a dist-upgrade.

I replied to this, but the post was reported and deleted because I had called you a troll in that post. I said quite a bit and pointed out why I believed your intentions are not necessarily honest. Though I wasn't attempting to belittle you, I should've said your _post_ was a troll post instead of saying that you, yourself, were a troll. So, I apologize for that.

I'm not exactly politically correct, and I've visited many message forums in the past that have been highly sensitive to political correctness. I'm not sure I can defend my points without explaining why I think the way I do (I've already expressed my thoughts on your character). So, I'm just going to drop it.

I wish you luck with Windows 10, and once again I apologize that I've commented.

 

[Qchan]

I'm glad to hear that the laptop is working out for you. I know that the two used laptops I bought used off of Ebay and upgraded the RAM and threw in 128GB SSDs in place of the HDDs run pretty smoothly.

Since I'm retired I can't measure productivity since I count a good day as waking up and getting up ( ), but have you found that your efficiency/productivity is increased and how are you measuring that? I'm interested because before I retired one of things I did was right justifications for desktop upgrades for myself and the people I supervised when the need arose. Efficiency and productivity were to points I always included. Then I had better show that those goals were met in a reasonable period of time, or further upgrades were out of the question.

Well... I'm a Linux Computer Systems Engineer.... So, Linux and Unix systems is what I deal with. So, in that regard, Linux has been a great boon in my productivity. It's a pain using putty (or any other windows terminal client) when interfacing with *nix boxes. I can store ssh key files directly on my machine as-is as opposed to converting them or pointing a UI to them.

VLC doesn't support encrypted BD discs. You can decode the files and setup an SBS player and I have no idea what the state of 3D Vision support under Linux is. So it's nothing as simple as popping in a disc and playing it.

No one mentioned encrypted BD discs, but it still supports 3D bluray. You can still play encrypted bluray discs from other software such as dvdplayer which has 3D support.

Sure you can drivers for Wacom devices and use a pen to replicate drawing with a mouse but there's nothing I know of under Linux that comes close to approximating something like OneNote with true ink awareness.

Well, that's your opinion. However, that is not fact.

Fair enough.

Sure Linux can work great if you don't use stuff that doesn't work great under it. Same could be said of Windows.

And your original point becomes moot....

And VR is new to Windows as well. And sure it's niche but for where it is I think the content available is pretty good. No necessarily for everyone, deeper story driven games aren't there yet but still some compelling titles.

So... What can you do Linux users can't do? I'm still waiting for that revelation....

 

[Chuklr]

Well... I'm a Linux Computer Systems Engineer.... So, Linux and Unix systems is what I deal with. So, in that regard, Linux has been a great boon in my productivity. It's a pain using putty (or any other windows terminal client) when interfacing with *nix boxes. I can store ssh key files directly on my machine as-is as opposed to converting them or pointing a UI to them.
...

It sounds like a good fit for you. I'm surprised they didn't get you a Linux laptop to begin with. That's management!

 

[heatlesssun]

Well... I'm a Linux Computer Systems Engineer.... So, Linux and Unix systems is what I deal with. So, in that regard, Linux has been a great boon in my productivity. It's a pain using putty (or any other windows terminal client) when interfacing with *nix boxes. I can store ssh key files directly on my machine as-is as opposed to converting them or pointing a UI to them.

Then desktop Linux is obviously the tool that fits your needs. Regardless of the OS, if it doesn't support well what the user needs or wants there's no point in using it.

No one mentioned encrypted BD discs, but it still supports 3D bluray. You can still play encrypted bluray discs from other software such as dvdplayer which has 3D support.

What exactly is dvdplayer? Do you have a link? Thanks!

Well, that's your opinion. However, that is not fact.

Pen ink input is a much different animal than a mouse or trackpad with concepts such as pressure sensitivity.

And your original point becomes moot....

People should use what works for them. I don't praise Microsoft or Windows, I'm just acknowledging that it works for the things I do as well as countless millions.

So... What can you do Linux users can't do? I'm still waiting for that revelation....

So Linux can play 3D BDs and when I look up the subject I find questions with iffy maybe sort of answers and no Linux user who seems to have actually done it or has a step by step guide on how to do it reliably. It costs money but for a Windows user you download PowerDVD and done. At least that's how I do it and it works very well.

 

[Qchan]

Then desktop Linux is obviously the tool that fits your needs. Regardless of the OS, if it doesn't support well what the user needs or wants there's no point in using it.

Uhh... That wasn't for you, but OK....

What exactly is dvdplayer? Do you have a link? Thanks!

It's the media player built into KODI.

Pen ink input is a much different animal than a mouse or trackpad with concepts such as pressure sensitivity.

It's no different than a Wacom tablet.

People should use what works for them. I don't praise Microsoft or Windows, I'm just acknowledging that it works for the things I do as well as countless millions.

A superior product is a superior product. Every Linux user has extensive experience with Windows. We know Windows like the back of our hands, however, not all Windows users have Linux experience. So, after making the plunge into Linux, I've definitely understood the differences and the drastic improvement Linux makes over Windows. So, it's more than just a preference. It's just smart business sense.

So Linux can play 3D BDs and when I look up the subject I find questions with iffy maybe sort of answers and no Linux user who seems to have actually done it or has a step by step guide on how to do it reliably. It costs money but for a Windows user you download PowerDVD and done. At least that's how I do it and it works very well.

Look... Even Raspberry Pis support it. This isn't something that Linux cannot do. You do understand that many Bluray players run Linux, right? This is another moot point.

Source: http://kodi.wiki/view/3D

 

[DeathFromBelow]

When's the last time any Linux user here played a 3D BD on a Linux machine? Or took a handwritten note on a desktop Linux device?

Oh god, how will I ever live without Onenote and my gigantic collection of 3D Blu Rays?

Or a CoD game?

I have, actually. I also sometimes use my Android phone to reply to your posts while I'm on the shitter, does that count?

 

[heatlesssun]

Oh god, how will I ever live without Onenote and my gigantic collection of 3D Blu Rays?

Like I said, stuff that desktop Linux folks just don't use. Nothing wrong with that, just saying.

 

[heatlesssun]

It's no different than a Wacom tablet.

Inking on screen is a much different experience than using a standalone pen digitizer. No one would ever take handwritten notes with the latter for instance because it just doesn't work well. And even with a Wacom tablet, there are specific pen capabilities that are more than replacing a mouse with a pen.

A superior product is a superior product. Every Linux user has extensive experience with Windows.

Every Linux user has extensive experience with Windows? I guess if a person installs their own desktop operating systems they probably have used Windows so I don't disagree with that. But extensive experience with everything supported by Windows? No one person has that much experience.

We know Windows like the back of our hands, however, not all Windows users have Linux experience. So, after making the plunge into Linux, I've definitely understood the differences and the drastic improvement Linux makes over Windows. So, it's more than just a preference. It's just smart business sense.

Linux drastically improved things for you and doesn't support fully much of the hardware and doesn't natively run about 80% of the software I use. These aren't mutually exclusive things. If you stick to what works well with Linux then sure it'll work well. It's not going to work well for the things it doesn't have support for.

Look... Even Raspberry Pis support it. This isn't something that Linux cannot do. You do understand that many Bluray players run Linux, right? This is another moot point.

Source: http://kodi.wiki/view/3D

And if you look at that guide for greater detail it references this: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=229692. Which is Windows specific. And that's just unencrypted SBS stuff, I've got a million ways to playback that stuff including VR playback under Windows. Just popping in a 3D BD and playing it, still no compressive or straightforward answer to that and what you're providing here not only isn't that it's focused on Windows.

 

[Qchan]

Inking on screen is a much different experience than using a standalone pen digitizer. No one would ever take handwritten notes with the latter for instance because it just doesn't work well. And even with a Wacom tablet, there are specific pen capabilities that are more than replacing a mouse with a pen.

If you say so. A wacom tablet is a wacom tablet.

Every Linux user has extensive experience with Windows? I guess if a person installs their own desktop operating systems they probably have used Windows so I don't disagree with that. But extensive experience with everything supported by Windows? No one person has that much experience.

I never said extensive experience with everything supported by Windows. Linux users don't have extensive experience with everything supported by Linux. That would be unrealistic. Heck, YOU don't even have extensive experience with EVERYTHING supported by Windows either :/

Linux drastically improved things for you and doesn't support fully much of the hardware and doesn't natively run about 80% of the software I use. These aren't mutually exclusive things. If you stick to what works well with Linux then sure it'll work well. It's not going to work well for the things it doesn't have support for.

You do realize that Linux has much more native hardware support than Windows, right? The hardware support is found in the kernel itself. Windows hardware support is in its drivers, and the drivers for Windows aren't compatible from version to version. So, that old printer you once had on Windows 7 won't be compatible to Windows 10 - and certainly vice versa. I've found hardware that simply does not feature any Windows 7 driver support whatsoever. That's really not the case for Linux at all.

And if you look at that guide for greater detail it references this: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=229692. Which is Windows specific. And that's just unencrypted SBS stuff, I've got a million ways to playback that stuff including VR playback under Windows. Just popping in a 3D BD and playing it, still no compressive or straightforward answer to that and what you're providing here not only isn't that it's focused on Windows.

You do realize that Linux runs dvdplayer natively on Linux only, right? The codec support comes from mplayer and it's library files.

 

[heatlesssun]

If you say so. A wacom tablet is a wacom tablet.

No one that's ever used ink technology would say this and I do mean literally no one. Wacom isn't even the only provider of pen tech.

Heck, YOU don't even have extensive experience with EVERYTHING supported by Windows either :/

I said this exact thing.

You do realize that Linux has much more native hardware support than Windows, right?

Ok, then everything that works in Windows and more should just work under Linux. That's just not the reality of it.

You do realize that Linux runs dvdplayer natively on Linux only, right? The codec support comes from mplayer and it's library files.

And that all works under Windows as well.

 

[Qchan]

No one that's ever used ink technology would say this and I do mean literally no one. Wacom isn't even the only provider of pen tech.

Umm... Okay.... Dunno what the argument here is considering that what you're arguing here is a bit silly.

Ok, then everything that works in Windows and more should just work under Linux. That's just not the reality of it.

When was the last time you used Linux? Perhaps you really don't know what the reality of it is....

And that all works under Windows as well.

What works under Windows as well? You're arguing that it does NOT work in Linux and I just proved it does.... So, perhaps you should retract your statement and admit you were wrong?

 

[Chuklr]

What we need here is a working definition of "work" so we can work through, or better define the multitude of workarounds that may or may not work for folk who work to make their systems support the goals they are working toward because something that works or doesn't work for one user may not meet another users definition of work or not work. Just my 2¢.

 

[heatlesssun]

When was the last time you used Linux? Perhaps you really don't know what the reality of it is....

I've got Ubuntu 17.04 installed on it's own SSD in my sig rig as I was interesting in getting Steam VR under Linux working. I did and while I get that it's still a beta product, it was hard not to notice just how easier getting the same stuff working under Windows is. And just little content there is for Linux and that's why I've said no one would spend this kind of money to run VR under Linux currently.

And VR is just the tiny tip of the iceberg. The difference in 3rd party support between Windows and Linux is about as wide as ever. Of course Windows has it's faults but the ability to easily do so many things under Windows with lots of help and guidance isn't one of them.

 

[heatlesssun]

What we need here is a working definition of "work" so we can work through, or better define the multitude of workarounds that may or may not work for folk who work to make their systems support the goals they are working toward because something that works or doesn't work for one user may not meet another users definition of work or not work. Just my 2¢.

Excellent point. You install PowerDVD and that's it, done and you can play any optical content available, even 4k UHD content with Windows 10 and correct hardware. A bunch of references to iffy stuff with not a single example of anyone getting stuff to work isn't working. It's just stuff people played around with maybe.

 

[Qchan]

I've got Ubuntu 17.04 installed on it's own SSD in my sig rig as I was interesting in getting Steam VR under Linux working. I did and while I get that it's still a beta product, it was hard not to notice just how easier getting the same stuff working under Windows is. And just little content there is for Linux and that's why I've said no one would spend this kind of money to run VR under Linux currently.

And VR is just the tiny tip of the iceberg. The difference in 3rd party support between Windows and Linux is about as wide as ever. Of course Windows has it's faults but the ability to easily do so many things under Windows with lots of help and guidance isn't one of them.

So, you use a beta product to try to make your point? That doesn't make sense. Should I then use WSL while it's currently in its beta stage and say how crappy its' support is? That's a bit silly, don't you think?

 

[heatlesssun]

So, you use a beta product to try to make your point? That doesn't make sense. Should I then use WSL while it's currently in its beta stage and say how crappy its' support is? That's a bit silly, don't you think?

I'm pretty clear about this being a beta, indeed I think Valve is calling it a development release. And I've played around with WSL and I think it's in better shape than Linux Steam VR. If you follow Michael Larabel of Phronix, that guy is a straight Linux guru when it comes to Linux gaming and hardware and his content is frequently referenced by pro-desktop Linux folks around here. I used his guide to help me setup Linux Steam VR and even he, a Linux expert, noted how hard it was even for him: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=steamvr-linux-beta&num=5.

Now this was three months ago and I made my attempt about 2 months ago and there have been a number of updates, Windows has also been getting them. When this is an official product I definitely plan to go back and see how it works then. But when an expert in Linux gaming hardware is saying "This ain't easy." you can't give me too much grief.

That certainly made it feel much more like an alpha than beta and cannot imagine a Windows gamer being willing to go through such strides. Even with being a dedicated Linux user for about the past decade and a half, I was frustrated and embarrassed by these initial SteamVR Linux woes being encountered on Linux in 2017.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=steamvr-linux-beta&num=8

Again, from a guy that pro-desktop Linux folks refer to all of the time. Not me.

 

[Chuklr]

I just checked on Phoronix and there is a short article announcing Steam Beta Update Fixes Long-Standing Linux VR Annoyance so Valve is still working on it, but it is still in Beta. Since that is the case one can only try the Steam Linux VR in a beta release.

Heatlesssun you may want to retest the situation, or wait until Valve finishes it and releases it.

EDIT: You can track the Steam Client Beta Updates here.

 

[heatlesssun]

I just checked on Phoronix and there is a short article announcing Steam Beta Update Fixes Long-Standing Linux VR Annoyance so Valve is still working on it, but it is still in Beta. Since that is the case one can only try the Steam Linux VR in a beta release.

Heatlesssun you may want to retest the situation, or wait until Valve finishes it and releases it.

As I said, when Steam VR for Linux becomes an officially released product I will set it up from scratch again. That would have to be easier than the process I went through before.

I can't help but get a big kick out of this. All of the personal attacks from pro-desktop Linux folks when I'm pushing Linux to its limits at far more expense and time and frustration than a typical PC user would be to attempt. Anyone can get a web browser or LibreOffice working under Linux, that's the simple stuff. Sure that's the average user scenario but what makes PCs interesting and useful is the stuff that's not common.

 

[Qchan]

I'm pretty clear about this being a beta, indeed I think Valve is calling it a development release. And I've played around with WSL and I think it's in better shape than Linux Steam VR. If you follow Michael Larabel of Phronix, that guy is a straight Linux guru when it comes to Linux gaming and hardware and his content is frequently referenced by pro-desktop Linux folks around here. I used his guide to help me setup Linux Steam VR and even he, a Linux expert, noted how hard it was even for him: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=steamvr-linux-beta&num=5.

Now this was three months ago and I made my attempt about 2 months ago and there have been a number of updates, Windows has also been getting them. When this is an official product I definitely plan to go back and see how it works then. But when an expert in Linux gaming hardware is saying "This ain't easy." you can't give me too much grief.



http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=steamvr-linux-beta&num=8

Again, from a guy that pro-desktop Linux folks refer to all of the time. Not me.

Once again, you are judging something that is in BETA and then faulting the entire OS for it. That doesn't make sense.

Considering how low you must go to prove your ridiculous point, one can assume that you actually have nothing to reference to prove your point. Thus, making your point completely irrelevant. Just in case you forgot, the point was that the Linux support is there. You're stuck in the 90s and early 2000s. Get with the program and realize that Linux has excellent hardware support.

 

[Chuklr]

When Beta is the only thing you have available to test and you've been hammered that VR doesn't matter and that you have no experience with Linux VR it's not surprising that you might try the Beta product. He, at least, had the interest to actually try it out. Just my 2¢.

 

[Qchan]

When Beta is the only thing you have available to test and you've been hammered that VR doesn't matter and that you have no experience with Linux VR it's not surprising that you might try the Beta product. He, at least, had the interest to actually try it out. Just my 2¢.

But you don't judge an entire OS based on any beta product. It doesn't make sense. It just doesn't.

 

[naib]

When Beta is the only thing you have available to test and you've been hammered that VR doesn't matter and that you have no experience with Linux VR it's not surprising that you might try the Beta product. He, at least, had the interest to actually try it out. Just my 2¢.

Beta is irrelevant. This thread is about a windows virus NOT VR on linux

 

[Chuklr]

... When was the last time you used Linux? Perhaps you really don't know what the reality of it is ...

But you don't judge an entire OS based on any beta product. It doesn't make sense. It just doesn't.

Beta is irrelevant. This thread is about a windows virus NOT VR on linux

I've got Ubuntu 17.04 installed on it's own SSD in my sig rig as I was interesting in getting Steam VR under Linux working. I did and while I get that it's still a beta product, it was hard not to notice just how easier getting the same stuff working under Windows is. And just little content there is for Linux and that's why I've said no one would spend this kind of money to run VR under Linux currently.

And VR is just the tiny tip of the iceberg. The difference in 3rd party support between Windows and Linux is about as wide as ever. Of course Windows has it's faults but the ability to easily do so many things under Windows with lots of help and guidance isn't one of them.

You may not like the answer, but Heatlesssun has the right to answer it truthfully. Just my 2¢.

 

[naib]

And when the answer has nothing todo with the topic, it's just wasting bandwidth

 

[Chuklr]

And when the answer has nothing todo with the topic, it's just wasting bandwidth

That's for the mods to decide. The truth is better than a lie. Again, just my 2¢.

 

[heatlesssun]

But you don't judge an entire OS based on any beta product. It doesn't make sense. It just doesn't.

I was just mentioning one thing I do and as I've said there are a number of things I do on Windows PCs that just don't have Linux support.

 

[Qchan]

I was just mentioning one thing I do and as I've said there are a number of things I do on Windows PCs that just don't have Linux support.

That wasn't what we were debating. I told you Linux has much more hardware support than Windows. You have not refuted that statement....

 

[heatlesssun]

That wasn't what we were debating. I told you Linux has much more hardware support than Windows. You have not refuted that statement....

It's claim that's virtually impossible to prove though. No one person or even team of people can begin to verify all existing hardware against Windows and Linux. If everyone on this forum were to setup Windows 10 and a Linux distro on every machine they had, we all know there would be TONS of variance in how well that would work with two different OSes on that array of hardware. Maybe Linux would end up winning in such an experiment but there'd certainly be lots of variance with both.

The latest version of Windows however does get the best hardware support for new hardware. That's just a market share thing.

 

[Qchan]

It's claim that's virtually impossible to prove though. No one person or even team of people can begin to verify all existing hardware against Windows and Linux. If everyone on this forum were to setup Windows 10 and a Linux distro on every machine they had, we all know there would be TONS of variance in how well that would work with two different OSes on that array of hardware. Maybe Linux would end up winning in such an experiment but there'd certainly be lots of variance with both.

The latest version of Windows however does get the best hardware support for new hardware. That's just a market share thing.

Oh, now you're reneging and saying that Windows 10 has the best support for new hardware. See, I said Linux has the best hardware support. Period. This includes both old and new hardware.

When you install Linux on a machine, your video, sound, wireless and even LAN hardware works right out of the box. This is because these hardware devices are supported by the kernel itself. In Windows 10, you almost always have to install the 3rd party drivers - and that's if they're available. For older hardware, you'll be hard pressed to find Windows 10 drivers - and then you'd be forced to replace that hardware.

I know this for sure, because I've installed Linux on many hardware configurations. I've built whole computers without ever thinking once about whether Linux was compatible, and upon installing Linux, everything worked right out of the box. In fact, Linux's hardware support is so good, I created a PXE boot that loads up a custom version of KODI using Ubuntu 16.04. I threw everything at it. Systems running Nvidia, AMD and Intel graphics. All of them worked. I even threw virtualized environments at it, and it worked like a charm (all of them being x86 of course). The OS was so flexible that I even ported an image over to my best friend's house, and it worked on all of his machines without a single hitch.

The jig is up, my friend. Linux wins. You can no longer argue about hardware when it comes to Linux.

 

[Chuklr]

...
When you install Linux on a machine, your video, sound, wireless and even LAN hardware works right out of the box. This is because these hardware devices are supported by the kernel itself. In Windows 10, you almost always have to install the 3rd party drivers - and that's if they're available. For older hardware, you'll be hard pressed to find Windows 10 drivers - and then you'd be forced to replace that hardware.
...

This is exciting news to me since I could never get the onboard wireless working on my preferred distroRoboLInux (Debian Jessie based). Have you recently install a build with RobobLinux 8.7.1 Cinnamon and did the wireless work out of the box?

What about my Canon MG7520? Have you found that now works out of the box? I can get by without a printer in Linux, but it would be nice if I could save the purchase price of a new printer.

Thanks.

 

[heatlesssun]

Oh, now you're reneging and saying that Windows 10 has the best support for new hardware. See, I said Linux has the best hardware support. Period. This includes both old and new hardware.

I'm saying what I've always said on this subject. How does anyone prove the state of compatibility of all current x86 hardware with any given OS? Anyone might very well have some hardware that's got better compatibility under a certain Linux distro but that compability can easily be effected by the kernel version so that even different distros of Linux would see variances in compatibility with exactly the same hardware. And that's can be true of Windows as well.

But when it comes to new hardware, yes the latest version of Windows tends to have the best support that's where the numbers are. I mean really, how much new hardware for PCs is being sold today that isn't Windows 10 compatible?

When you install Linux on a machine, your video, sound, wireless and even LAN hardware works right out of the box. This is because these hardware devices are supported by the kernel itself. In Windows 10, you almost always have to install the 3rd party drivers - and that's if they're available. For older hardware, you'll be hard pressed to find Windows 10 drivers - and then you'd be forced to replace that hardware.

Well that's generally the case for Windows as well. But the defaults even under Linux aren't always perfect. There's plenty of discussion in this form Linux folks struggling with drivers and kernel versions.

I know this for sure, because I've installed Linux on many hardware configurations.

But far from all. Basic laptops or desktops sure. But you don't just install Linux or even Windows on something like my sig rig and everything works out of the box. But yeah, this was a machine built to be good for Windows gaming, among other things so it would be silly to expect it to be as compatible with Linux as Windows. Linux compatibility was never promised for the manufacturer for everything support by this hardware.

I've built whole computers without ever thinking once about whether Linux was compatible, and upon installing Linux, everything worked right out of the box. In fact, Linux's hardware support is so good, I created a PXE boot that loads up a custom version of KODI using Ubuntu 16.04. I threw everything at it. Systems running Nvidia, AMD and Intel graphics. All of them worked. I even threw virtualized environments at it, and it worked like a charm (all of them being x86 of course). The OS was so flexible that I even ported an image over to my best friend's house, and it worked on all of his machines without a single hitch.

The jig is up, my friend. Linux wins. You can no longer argue about hardware when it comes to Linux.

Video drivers, very basic stuff. I think Windows 10 works with GPUs from the very same companies. If someone buys a new piece of PC hardware and it's not specifically listed with Linux support, it's would be unwise for the buyer to assume Linux compatibilitywithout research first. But's it's almost guaranteed to have Windows 10 support these days.

 

[Qchan]

This is exciting news to me since I could never get the onboard wireless working on my preferred distroRoboLInux (Debian Jessie based). Have you recently install a build with RobobLinux 8.7.1 Cinnamon and did the wireless work out of the box?

What about my Canon MG7520? Have you found that now works out of the box? I can get by without a printer in Linux, but it would be nice if I could save the purchase price of a new printer.

Thanks.

1) What is the make and model of your onboard wireless? 9 times out of 10, there's support - but because you're using a very odd distro with very little documentation, I don't know what you're running.

2) As for your Canon MG7520, it only took me 5 minutes to find your printer's Linux drivers:

Source: http://support-asia.canon-asia.com/contents/ASIA/EN/0100626502.html

And the scanner drivers too:

Source: http://support-ph.canon-asia.com/contents/PH/EN/0100627102.html

And, you're welcome!

 

[lcpiper]

Linux dominates on enterprise server installs, people have been using it for years now and no one's picked it apart yet.

Wait up a moment, Linux dominates on what kind of server installs? And how does it dominate.

I've never seen a Linux;

AD server
Radius
WSUS Server
SharePoint Server
VSphere Server, (though there is a VCenter Appliance that is Linux based).
Exchange

Look, the majority of vulnerabilities are not really OS specific. Instead they target services, many of which are cross-platform, and applications or APIs. How many times when you STIG or harden a machine, is the recommended corrective action to disable outdated and unnecessary services and protocols? Application updates are frequently about security updates to the app. Even the NetApp storage systems I manage have several hardening steps I have to go through even though it is a very limited and tailored Linux kernel based OS and it's all about locking down services and protocols, making use of certificates and frankly, just good IA security practices.

The day Microsoft writes all their Enterprise related Server Applications for Linux is the day that Linux has to carry the same water Microsoft already carries now.

I would also like to point out that in our environment, since we started using the Army's AGM Server 2012R2 build, our STIG checklist comes in at something like 93% compliant right out of the box. All of us that work in server rooms know that this makes life much easier when it comes to server deployment if STIGing is a requirement. You all know that you can only lock down or fix what is fixable, and some things have to either just be avoided, find another solution that dodges the vulnerability, whatever to minimize risk. Look at Java, we can't seem to get rid of it no matter how many vulnerabilities remain unaddressed my Oracle.

Anyway, I just wanted to point this out. It's not just about the OS.

 

[Qchan]

I'm saying what I've always said on this subject. How does anyone prove the state of compatibility of all current x86 hardware with any given OS? Anyone might very well have some hardware that's got better compatibility under a certain Linux distro but that compability can easily be effected by the kernel version so that even different distros of Linux would see variances in compatibility with exactly the same hardware. And that's can be true of Windows as well.

That's not true. What works in one distro can work in them all. That's not the case with Windows, because each subsequent version can have huge incompatibility issues due to the differences in the Windows architecture from version to version. The architecture in Linux is the same between all distros. Only difference is the subsystem underneath the kernel; meaning, which package managers are installed, which directories are assigned to what, what services are set to run, and etc.

For example: I can install an apt-get package manager on a Redhat box and install debian packages. I can install the YUM package manager on a Ubuntu box and install Redhat or Suse packages, and etc.

But when it comes to new hardware, yes the latest version of Windows tends to have the best support that's where the numbers are. I mean really, how much new hardware for PCs is being sold today that isn't Windows 10 compatible?

This means nothing when most operating systems have support for new hardware. This includes Linux.

Well that's generally the case for Windows as well. But the defaults even under Linux aren't always perfect. There's plenty of discussion in this form Linux folks struggling with drivers and kernel versions.

But it's not generally the case for Windows. Killer Ethernet, for example, doesn't work out of the box on Windows 10. I've experienced this myself. Several wireless devices simply do NOT work out of the box in *any* version of Windows. You absolutely have to install the 3rd party driver. On top of that, no driver on Windows is located on the kernel. Windows generally comes with just a few basic drivers in the OS. Linux is different. Since the kernel is where most of its drivers reside, upgrading the kernel generally gives a person the latest hardware compatibility they'll need. In Windows, you have to find the driver on the manufacturer's website.

But far from all. Basic laptops or desktops sure. But you don't just install Linux or even Windows on something like my sig rig and everything works out of the box. But yeah, this was a machine built to be good for Windows gaming, among other things so it would be silly to expect it to be as compatible with Linux as Windows. Linux compatibility was never promised for the manufacturer for everything support by this hardware.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I can only speak for myself when I say that each box I've encountered, Linux supported it well. Windows, on the other hand, was a pain a lot more than any Linux box has been for me. I've mentioned my Killer Ethernet drivers. It was a nightmare getting the Windows 10 version of those drivers. For the longest time, they simply were not available. Thankfully I didn't have to worry about that. However, in Linux, my ethernet worked the moment it was installed. Heck, it worked when installing the OS on a live disc.

Video drivers, very basic stuff. I think Windows 10 works with GPUs from the very same companies. If someone buys a new piece of PC hardware and it's not specifically listed with Linux support, it's would be unwise for the buyer to assume Linux compatibilitywithout research first. But's it's almost guaranteed to have Windows 10 support these days.

You speak in a lot of hypotheticals, but you have yet to prove where all of this incompatibility is coming from in Linux. I believe your problem is you're stuck in the early 2000s thinking that Linux has the same amount of hardware compatibility that it did back then. You must understand that, this is 2017. That's no longer the case with Linux anymore. Perhaps you should use Linux more often instead of assuming it doesn't have support based on your inexperience with the OS.

 

[Chuklr]

1) What is the make and model of your onboard wireless? 9 times out of 10, there's support - but because you're using a very odd distro with very little documentation, I don't know what you're running.

2) As for your Canon MG7520, it only took me 5 minutes to find your printer's Linux drivers:

Source: http://support-asia.canon-asia.com/contents/ASIA/EN/0100626502.html

And the scanner drivers too:

Source: http://support-ph.canon-asia.com/contents/PH/EN/0100627102.html

And, you're welcome!

Thank you very much! I truly appreciate the assist!

I think I've found the necessary wifi driver and that too is thanks to your assistance. Again, much appreciated.

 

[heatlesssun]

You speak in a lot of hypotheticals, but you have yet to prove where all of this incompatibility is coming from in Linux. I believe your problem is you're stuck in the early 2000s thinking that Linux has the same amount of hardware compatibility that it did back then. You must understand that, this is 2017. That's no longer the case with Linux anymore. Perhaps you should use Linux more often instead of assuming it doesn't have support based on your inexperience with the OS.

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just saying that if one goes out and buys particularly the latest and greatest hardware and it's not specifically listed as being Linux compatible it would be unwise for that buyer to just assume that it is without research. Like Logitech's latest webcam. And even stuff that has Linux support that support doesn't come from the manufacturer and might very well be a side project. And that's not to say that if something isn't currently supported that it won't ever be.

No I'm not stuck in the early 2000s. I have gone through and looked at Linux compatibility with everything in this sig rig. Yes, there are a lot of gaps and even if I've missed stuff it's not like even a Linux guru like yourself wouldn't have to spend a lot of time figuring out just where you might find some support with even stuff like Corsair Link. And yes there are options there but some of them are kind of complicated. Some of you pro-desktop Linux folks think that people like me don't study this stuff and yeah, to pretended that it's all plug and play and just everything works is just not true.

 

[Qchan]

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just saying that if one goes out and buys particularly the latest and greatest hardware and it's not specifically listed as being Linux compatible it would be unwise for that buyer to just assume that it is without research. Like Logitech's latest webcam. And even stuff that has Linux support that support doesn't come from the manufacturer and might very well be a side project. And that's not to say that if something isn't currently supported that it won't ever be.

No I'm not stuck in the early 2000s. I have gone through and looked at Linux compatibility with everything in this sig rig. Yes, there are a lot of gaps and even if I've missed stuff it's not like even a Linux guru like yourself wouldn't have to spend a lot of time figuring out just where you might find some support with even stuff like Corsair Link. And yes there are options there but some of them are kind of complicated. Some of you pro-desktop Linux folks think that people like me don't study this stuff and yeah, to pretended that it's all plug and play and just everything works is just not true.

In my experience, I have always found it much much more difficult to get Windows working on a box than Linux. With Linux, it's very easy, because most support is written directly in the kernel. What you may not understand is that manufacturers contact Linus Torvalds and they either offer their source code for their products to be implemented into the kernel, or they provide the specifications for the open source community to implement themselves. In Windows, for your device to work, you almost always have to grab the 3rd party drivers. Once Windows loses its support, then that OS dies a horrible death (Windows XP). What you're arguing is compatibility for the the latest and greatest. You're not factoring in stable compatibility. Meaning, compatibility as time goes by.

If I wanted, I could grab Ubuntu 6.04 (Yes, that's 6.04 released back in 2006), install the latest kernel and get that old OS working with the most current hardware. You cannot grab Windows XP and make it work with the latest and greatest without much much heartache.

You need to switch to Linux. I think deep down inside, you want to be a Linux guru too. Our arms are wide open and ready to accept you. Microsoft doesn't love you as much as we do. Be a Linux guru and be happy!

 

[heatlesssun]

In my experience, I have always found it much much more difficult to get Windows working on a box than Linux. With Linux, it's very easy, because most support is written directly in the kernel. What you may not understand is that manufacturers contact Linus Torvalds and they either offer their source code for their products to be implemented into the kernel, or they provide the specifications for the open source community to implement themselves. In Windows, for your device to work, you almost always have to grab the 3rd party drivers. Once Windows loses its support, then that OS dies a horrible death (Windows XP). What you're arguing is compatibility for the the latest and greatest. You're not factoring in stable compatibility. Meaning, compatibility as time goes by.

If I wanted, I could grab Ubuntu 6.04 (Yes, that's 6.04 released back in 2006), install the latest kernel and get that old OS working with the most current hardware. You cannot grab Windows XP and make it work with the latest and greatest without much much heartache.

You need to switch to Linux. I think deep down inside, you want to be a Linux guru too. Our arms are wide open and ready to accept you. Microsoft doesn't love you as much as we do. Be a Linux guru and be happy!

It all depends. Setting up Windows 10 on my sig rig is far easier to do than Ubuntu at least for all that it was meant to do. 3D Vision, SLI, the webcam, the motherboard lighting controls, even where there is support, it's not necessarily close to the state of Windows. Hell, it's a lot easier to install Ubuntu on a Surface device.

 

[Qchan]

It all depends. Setting up Windows 10 on my sig rig is far easier to do than Ubuntu at least for all that it was meant to do. 3D Vision, SLI, the webcam, the motherboard lighting controls, even where there is support, it's not necessarily close to the state of Windows. Hell, it's a lot easier to install Ubuntu on a Surface device.

You see, I don't think you're being honest. Nvidia's 3D vision has Linux support:

http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2652/~/is-3d-vision-supported-in-linux?

My guess is that you never even tried to get Linux to run. You just assumed it wouldn't run and gave up. You lose a great number of points for that one, sir.