MSI AM4 pron

Heck, my perfect motherboard for Ryzen would be an x370 using the combination of PLX chips and CPU and chipset lanes to provide the maximum PCIe port flexibility.

It would have minimum on board components. I'd like one or two on board gigabit intel NIC's, but other than that, I'd prefer if they didn't integrate anything else on board, and just save the PCIe lanes for expansion purposes. I'm going to disable the onboard sound, and onboard SATA ports anyway.

To me it's all about expansion expansion expansion, and otherwise as barebones as possible.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Lol at the Killer onboard NIC.

What junk.
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Let me say this about Killer, and you guys KNOW that Dan and I are far from fans of Killer NICs. Since Windows 10, the overall performance and execution of those has gotten much much much better. And in the last few weeks, driver packages are being distributed that do not require you to load the bullshit software with those either, which is a big plus IMO. I would still rather see an Intel NIC, but it is what it is, and Killer has gotten away from being a huge PITA at least, and its performance in stock form is good as well.
 
Seeing the Killer NIC on Gigabyte might actually drive me back to an ASrock board, they've already got better on-board sound, and more than likely an Intel NIC going by the CES pics. Sigh.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Yuck... Highpoint. I don't trust their products at all. I've had nothing but problems over the years.

For my NAS server I went with two LSI 9220-8i SAS cards instead, flashed to IT (JBOD/HBA) mode - of course - so I could use them with ZFS. They have been perfectly reliable for years now.

My Highpoint controllers have all gone in the trash. They are absolute junk as far as I'm concerned.
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Why do you have 2x LSI controllers? Do you have more than 32 hard drives?
 
rtangwai said:
Why do you have 2x LSI controllers? Do you have more than 32 hard drives?
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Nope, they only support 8 drives each unless you get SAS expanders, but when I bought them, an additional controller was cheaper (by far) than a SAS expander and I had plenty of PCIe slots.
 
Gotta love the page 1 pix of the MSI box. I'm filled with breathless waiting for their advertised "impendence". That sounds so...pregnant.
 
Sodapopjones said:
Seeing the Killer NIC on Gigabyte might actually drive me back to an ASrock board, they've already got better on-board sound, and more than likely an Intel NIC going by the CES pics. Sigh.
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Its just the one board that has Killer. They have at least two more that don't (they probably use Realtek but what else are you using your PCIe x1 slots for if not an Intel NIC)
 
ecmaster76 said:
Its just the one board that has Killer. They have at least two more that don't (they probably use Realtek but what else are you using your PCIe x1 slots for if not an Intel NIC)
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They didn't say the K5 (Black board) would not have the Killer NIC unless I missed it, if it doesn't then I'm good :) ASRock's really a hard bargain to pass up sometimes though.

From my old Biostar days, I really would like to see how limited the MSI B350 Tomahawk is with its 4+2 phases, I love budget OC'ing, it would be cool to see what can be done with one of those boards and the 4/8 part.
 
Never thought I'd say this about an ASRock MoBo, but the Fata1ty X370 with the Sound Blaster Cinema3 on-board audio looks like the best one out of the group. If RyZen wins out for my next PC overhaul, I'd likely be getting that particular MoBo because of the better audio processor.

Disappointingly, it seems Gigabyte may skimp on their Aorus models by not including their Creative Sound Core3D that's present on their Intel offerings...what a shame. Then again, only the X370 Gaming 3 and 5 models are featured in this article, so it may very well be present on their Gaming 7 model. We'll find out soon enough. And if it is, then I'll stick with Gigabyte, if the price tag isn't far and away above the Fatal1ty.
 
DejaWiz said:
Since the mainstream 4C/8T i7 has been hovering in the $320-370 range since Sandy Bridge, then the top end RyZen should be no more than $300-330 (around 10% less) to get me to buy it. If AMD pulls a release day pricing scheme with RyZen being substantially more than the i7 like they did with Bulldozer, then I'll simply buy an i7.
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I wouldn't be surprised if it was, though, for their top end product. If it's still better than Intel at multi-threaded workloads and also approaches Intel with single-thread workloads, they'd have both gamers and workstation users seriously considering zen. Supply/demand and all that. I'm sure it'd drop after a short while if it was higher.
 
I think people are being overly optimistic in Ryzen 8/16 coming in at the $300 +/- mark...
 
Sodapopjones said:
I think people are being overly optimistic in Ryzen 8/16 coming in at the $300 +/- mark...
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Why is it we insist that an 8c/16t AMD chip be priced equivalently to a 4c/8t Intel chip?

Remember, Intel charges over $1000 for their 8 core briadwell-e chips. If AMD can bring the IPC and clocks why shouldn't they also make some money?

Now, broadwell-E has quad channel ram and more PCIe lanes, but it also has a higher TDP.

AMD should price theirs lower to offset for these differences, as well as to drive some take over of market share, and account for the fact that with more competition Intel likely will drop prices too, but they shouldn't be giving their CPU's away....
 
If AMD got 1000$ performance they are also going to charge ~1000$

I wonder what the AM4 boards themselves will cost. Since the chipset isn't exactly premium, I guess we will see rather large swings depending on additional hardware added.
 
Shintai said:
If AMD got 1000$ performance they are also going to charge ~1000$

I wonder what the AM4 boards themselves will cost. Since the chipset isn't exactly premium, I guess we will see rather large swings depending on additional hardware added.
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And they will make 0 marketshare gains that way. They need price cheaper or they will lose.
 
Rvenger said:
And they will make 0 marketshare gains that way. They need price cheaper or they will lose.
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They would make both market share and money. People need to stop thinking that AMD is somehow the great samaritan or te victim that needs to scrape the floor if competitive.
 
It seems like when we come to AMD products, people like to forget the basics of economics 101 and look for AMD welfare. I do agree that their mobo's had better be priced cheaper as the chipsets are not on par.
 
Let's keep in mind that having a competitive chip will result in price drops on both sides.

The way I think of it is this.

Given the fewer PCIe lanes and lack of quad channel RAM on the platform, as well as the fact that they will want to undercut Intel slightly, as they don't have as good brand recognition and image, I'm guessing that an AMD chip will be about at 80% of the price of an equivalent Intel chip.

With the equivalent Intel chip being the $1000 6900k, that would put a top Zen at $800.

BUT, competition will now being both of them down.

How much, I don't know. That's what both AMD and Intel pay market analysts a lot ofoney to figure out.

I'm hoping to the point where Zen is about $400-500 and the equivalent Intel chip is $500-$625.

This likely won't happen right away though. AMD will have to choose at what price to launch, and initially there will likely be a large gap to Intel as supply chain works it's way though. Intel may not even alter it's pricing until Broadwell-E's replacement.

They have enough cash to take a short term beating on sales and not look like they are taking AMD too seriously.
 
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Zarathustra[H] said:
Why is it we insist that an 8c/16t AMD chip be priced equivalently to a 4c/8t Intel chip?
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Because X370 isn't an entirely separate "enthusiast" platform, like X99 is. Intel has the capability to release 6C/12T and 8C/16T CPUs into their mainstream lineup, but they've been too busy fleecing over their customers by forcing them to pay insane price premiums to get them. AMD has a golden opportunity to flip the bird to Intel with a mainstream 8C/16T CPU that's competitively priced to Intel's mainstream 4C/8T CPUs. That leaves the question (we will soon have answered): will they?
 
Shintai said:
That's not true unfortunately. Neither AMD or Intel wants a price war.
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They may not want it, but if they were to coordinate their pricing it would be collusion in violation per the Sherman act.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they will wage a shooting war on the price front, but AMD wants to gain market share, and Intel doesn't want to lose it, so with two viable options on the market, pricing will naturally come down. Competition does that.
 
DejaWiz said:
Because X370 isn't an entirely separate "enthusiast" platform, like X99 is. Intel has the capability to release 6C/12T and 8C/16T CPUs into their mainstream lineup, but they've been too busy fleecing over their customers by forcing them to pay insane price premiums to get them. AMD has a golden opportunity to flip the bird to Intel with a mainstream 8C/16T CPU that's competitively priced to Intel's mainstream 4C/8T CPUs. That leaves the question (we will soon have answered): will they?
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Will they, or can they?

They will have manufacturing costs, probably higher manufacturing costs per unit than Intel, as GlobalFoundries is in no way as well optimized and managed as Intel's fabs are. That, and intel has it all in house, whereas both AMD and GloFo need to make a profit on these parts. That and AMD is in a relatively highly leveraged position right now. They need profit to pay that down and stay in business.

I'm not expecting any lower prices than they feel they absolutely need in order to compete. I'm guessing (mostly uneducated) that top end 8c-16t AMD CPU's will come in at about $500, and that prices will come down as we go down in clock speeds, and as lower core versions eventually hit the market.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Will they, or can they?

They will have manufacturing costs, probably higher manufacturing costs per unit than Intel, as GlobalFoundries is in no way as well optimized and managed as Intel's fabs are. That, and intel has it all in house, whereas both AMD and GloFo need to make a profit on these parts. That and AMD is in a relatively highly leveraged position right now. They need profit to pay that down and stay in business.

I'm not expecting any lower prices than they feel they absolutely need in order to compete. I'm guessing (mostly uneducated) that top end 8c-16t AMD CPU's will come in at about $500, and that prices will come down as we go down in clock speeds, and as lower core versions eventually hit the market.
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They definitely could for sure. Heck, 8c Zen should be smaller than Polaris 10 as far as I know and considering that CPU is just CPU without large PCB, memory chips etc... Why the heck should this cost more than 400 €? In size it should be more or less the same as i7 7700K since Zen doesn't have a GPU that takes as much space as four CPU cores.
 
Tup3x said:
They definitely could for sure. Heck, 8c Zen should be smaller than Polaris 10 as far as I know and considering that CPU is just CPU without large PCB, memory chips etc... Why the heck should this cost more than 400 €? In size it should be more or less the same as i7 7700K since Zen doesn't have a GPU that takes as much space as four CPU cores.
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But soc?
 
Tup3x said:
They definitely could for sure. Heck, 8c Zen should be smaller than Polaris 10 as far as I know and considering that CPU is just CPU without large PCB, memory chips etc... Why the heck should this cost more than 400 €? In size it should be more or less the same as i7 7700K since Zen doesn't have a GPU that takes as much space as four CPU cores.
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Depends on how complicated the chip is, and what kind of yields they get. Yields will make or break everything.
 
If I had to guess, 8c is $725 out of the gate. I base this on nothing, just want my guess on record. :)
 
Ya if this CPU performs it is not going for 300 bucks. I'm talking the 8/16 version. I don't even expect it to be that cheap. Only if Intel lowers prices greatly in time.
 
Nobu said:
But soc?
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That's nothing really. Intel has bunch of stuff in their CPUs. Compared to Intel's E CPUs this is much less complex. Less PCI-E lanes and no quad channel memory controller. Also much less pins which brings the platform cost down.


If 8 core Zen somehow would cost 800 € or even 700 €, I would laugh my ass off and buy 6 core Intel for less than 500 €. (Not that I would, it's 8 core for me. I'll keep waiting till the prices are sane.)
 
Tup3x said:
They definitely could for sure. Heck, 8c Zen should be smaller than Polaris 10 as far as I know and considering that CPU is just CPU without large PCB, memory chips etc... Why the heck should this cost more than 400 €? In size it should be more or less the same as i7 7700K since Zen doesn't have a GPU that takes as much space as four CPU cores.
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Its much harder to make MPUs than GPUs. Also R&D. Sure AMD could sell Zen for 125-150$ maybe. But then Zen is the last thing you ever see. Zen needs to pay for the future R&D.

If you look at AMD. They got about 4 billion revenue if we cut it all down roughly.
1 billion goes to Glofo.
1 billion goes to R&D.
2 billion goes to regular daily cost and sales.

Another way is to see AMDs profit for selling a 100$ chip to consoles. That's a tiny profit and roughly the same cost but with a lot of overhead cost removed.
 
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Shintai said:
Its much harder to make MPUs than GPUs. Also R&D. Sure AMD could sell Zen for 125-150$ maybe. But then Zen is the last thing you ever see. Zen needs to pay for the future R&D.
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That's why I'm expecting ~400 € or slightly higher but not 800 €.
 
Tup3x said:
That's why I'm expecting ~400 € or slightly higher but not 800 €.
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The price will be where the performance is. Remember, higher bins also pays for lower bins.

AMD isn't going to give you it for cheap. They will charge everything they can get for it. If it performs like 800€ it will cost 800€.

Lisa Su also said that AMD dont want to be the cheap brand.
 
Well how many variations are we going to see?
2 8c/16t versions?
2 6c/16T versions?
Later 4c/8t versions? besides APU's.

Also any non SMT versions?

So how could you price the top version for around $300 and then have numerous lesser versions as well? I don't see that happening and that seems unreasonable.

AMD compared their top version with Intel's top 8c/16t chip for a price point as well I do believe

Anyways I see their top version, if indeed it performs very well
  • Top 8c/16t at least $599 and probably more like $699. If it really does not perform that well it will be less.
  • 2nd 8c/16t $499
  • Top 6c/12T $399
  • 2n 6c/12T $299
This should not be a paper launch but full blown availability while they last launch. I am sure other skews will follow quickly for the less than $200 mark for the lower end motherboards.
 
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Is there boards are above 2667 or 3000Mhz on memory? Or is it simply the limit for Ryzen, just as previously with 2400Mhz on APUs.

MSI for example list 2667Mhz+ as OC max. While its 4133Mhz+ on their Z270 boards.
 
I'm not really a fan of the titanium color board.

I prefer Black, Blue, or Red PCB. That being said I really don't care about the color. I can change my tubing color, and RGB led's to anycolor I wish pretty easy. Heck even my sp120's can change color with a new snap ring.

The problem AMD has this go around if Ryzen is indeed competitive is that Intel has had market dominance for a long time. Intel has pretty much solely controlled its own pricing. It will be interesting how pricing plays out. I doubt intel is going to remain rock steady on their prices. They will likely drop the price of the 8-core and 10-core cpus.
 
ebduncan said:
I'm not really a fan of the titanium color board.

I prefer Black, Blue, or Red PCB. That being said I really don't care about the color. I can change my tubing color, and RGB led's to anycolor I wish pretty easy. Heck even my sp120's can change color with a new snap ring.

The problem AMD has this go around if Ryzen is indeed competitive is that Intel has had market dominance for a long time. Intel has pretty much solely controlled its own pricing. It will be interesting how pricing plays out. I doubt intel is going to remain rock steady on their prices. They will likely drop the price of the 8-core and 10-core cpus.
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It wouldn't have been my first choice either, but I prefer it to the motherboards that are starting to look like dbag affliction shirts.
 
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