XFX R7770 Black Edition Super Overclocked Review @ [H]

How is AMD expected to clear stock of EOL parts if they price a BRAND NEW product line with comparable performance cheaper than the product line it's replacing? And in this case it's not even in the same product bracket.

Say AMD priced the 77xx series cheaper than the 68xx series. They just then fucked their retailers by leaving them with stock that they would barely be able to move unles they (the retailers) put them on sale for less than the 77xx series which then brings us back to where we started. It doesn't make any business sense.
 
Teenk9 said:
How is AMD expected to clear stock of EOL parts if they price a BRAND NEW product line with comparable performance cheaper than the product line it's replacing? And in this case it's not even in the same product bracket.

Say AMD priced the 77xx series cheaper than the 68xx series. They just then fucked their retailers by leaving them with stock that they would barely be able to move unles they (the retailers) put them on sale for less than the 77xx series which then brings us back to where we started. It doesn't make any business sense.
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how is being more expensive yet slower considered comparable? but yes you are right that they need to move out the older cards first then the prices will probably drop a little.
 
What is the 6870? A high mid range card. What is the 7700? A low mid range card. There hasn't been any news of a tier lower than the 7700 series. When the 6800 cards are no longer on the shelves, you're going to have a low mid range card as fast as last gen's high mid range offering which runs cooler and requires less power, plus the price will go down once it's just the 7700,7800, and 7900 series on shelves. That's when the value of these cards will really shine. You make it seem like the 6800 series is going to be around forever and this release was for nothing. No one is looking at the big picture. I even said in my post that the 6870 is on par or better than a 7700 and cost the same. But I do realize that when the 6800 is nixed, the 7700 will really shine. Remember, the 7700 is NOT a replacement for the 6800 series, that's what the 7800 series is for.
 
cannondale06 said:
it is you that does not get it. a stock 6870 is easily faster overall than even the overclocked 7770. a stock 7770 will not even match a stock 6850 even though it costs quite a bit more. pretty much every review gets it so why cant you?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5541/amd-radeon-hd-7750-radeon-hd-7770-ghz-edition-review/24

if you go by launch prices you’re getting the same amount of performance per dollar today as you did in October of 2010. In reality the 6850 is much cheaper than that, with a number of cards selling for $159 before a rebate, while several more 6870s sell for $159 after rebate. The 7770 is so far off the price/performance curve that you have to believe that this is either a pricing error or AMD is planning on quickly halting 6800 series production.

The 7700 series is a fine lineup of cards, but AMD has finally shot itself in the foot with its conservative pricing. The 7750 can ride on the sub-75W niche for now, but the only way the 7770 will make any sense is if it comes down in price. Until then AMD’s worst competition for the 7700 series is not NVIDIA, it’s their 6850.



http://techreport.com/articles.x/22473/9

The Radeon HD 7770 isn't a bad product by any means; it just costs way too much. This is a card that belongs at around $130, just below the Radeon HD 6850. It has no business anywhere near $159 or, heaven forbid, $179 like our snazzed-up XFX entrant.



http://www./forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/51543-amd-radeon-hd-7770-hd-7750-review-16.html

Unfortunately for AMD, money talks these days and gamers who care about framerates will understandably overlook the HD 7770 since there are comparably priced cards which outperform it by significant margins.


EDIT: Hard blocks the last link for the popular Canadian review site.
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lol all that work to try to prove a correct statement wrong.. you still don't get it. it doesn't matter how fast the 6870 is, its an EOL card and will be off the shelves in retailers within the next 2-3 months which leaves you with the 7770 in the same price bracket and the 6870's eventual replacement which will be the 7850 priced 70-80 dollars more then the 7770. so you can argue that its slower then the 6870 til you are blue in the face but it really doesn't matter since the card was never meant as a replacement for the 6870, it was meant as a replacement for the 6770 which it obviously is by a huge margin.



cannondale06 said:
how is being more expensive yet slower considered comparable? but yes you are right that they need to move out the older cards first then the prices will probably drop a little.
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yup because that 10fps difference sure allowed you to enable higher settings.. both were playable at the exact same settings. the 10fps really doesn't make a lick of difference unless you like watching the frame rate counter the entire time you are playing a game. but obviously the reference clocks are a geared more toward the oem market given that Brent was able to gain another 10%(20% over ref) with a small overclock on an already overclocked R7770.
 
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My thing is, and I'll be done with this after this, is that, what AMD has done is pretty impressive. Their job to my understanding is to replace there previous line of cards (6700,6800,6900) with cards that not only perform far better than there previous line, but also consume less power, and produce less heat. They have done that, and boy have they. An 7700 can run BF3 on ultra settings with FXAA and 16xAF at 35-40 fps avg. A 6770 cannot. A 7870 more than likely will perform at 6970 speeds which the 6870 could not do. And we already know where the 7970 and 7950 stand in comparison to the 6970/50. Lower heat and power consumption and a huge gain in performance. The price will settle down once NVIDIA finally releases their cards and/or the 6 series line of cards is off shelves. Have patience..
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
lol all that work to try to prove a correct statement wrong.. you still don't get it. it doesn't matter how fast the 6870 is, its an EOL card and will be off the shelves in retailers within the next 2-3 months which leaves you with the 7770 in the same price bracket and the 6870's eventual replacement which will be the 7850 priced 70-80 dollars more then the 7770. so you can argue that its slower then the 6870 til you are blue in the face but it really doesn't matter since the card was never meant as a replacement for the 6870, it was meant as a replacement for the 6770 which it obviously is by a huge margin.
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what it is up your butt? I never said the 7770 was a replacement for the 6870. I am simply saying the SAME thing that other reviews are saying which is the 7770 is TOO EXPENSIVE right now for the performance that it gives. you can get faster cards for cheaper so the 7770 is a joke at its msrp. and btw a stock 7770 is slower than even the 6850.
 
But Cannondale06 the 6870's and 6850's are being heavily discounted to get them off the shelves. So yes I agree that today grab one of those higher tier cards at a discounted price. Realistically you have to think launch price points and not current price points as the 6800 series will cease to exist soon. The 6870 was a $240 card at launch correct? There should be a 7870 that is priced similarly to compete performance wise against it. This card is designed to compete against the 6700 cards; not the 6800's.

Retailers are just liquidating their stock on the old and bringing in the new. Maybe the review should have tossed in it's EOL direct replacement to show the difference in performance. But [H] goes by current prices, and the heavily discounted EOL 6800 series has fallen in price to a lower tier.

If I were purchasing a new card today and the 6800 series was still available, then it's a no brainer to grab the higher tier card on sale. But there will be a 7800 card soon to directly compare the 6800 series to. And going by the trend so far it will be faster,and have more efficient power power usage. But those cards haven't launched yet.

Just give AMD an opportunity to launch those. Until then grab your 6800 cards before they are all gone at this liquidation price point!
 
cageymaru said:
But Cannondale06 the 6870's and 6850's are being heavily discounted to get them off the shelves. So yes I agree that today grab one of those higher tier cards at a discounted price. Realistically you have to think launch price points and not current price points as the 6800 series will cease to exist soon. The 6870 was a $240 card at launch correct? There should be a 7870 that is priced similarly to compete performance wise against it. This card is designed to compete against the 6700 cards; not the 6800's.

Retailers are just liquidating their stock on the old and bringing in the new. Maybe the review should have tossed in it's EOL direct replacement to show the difference in performance. But [H] goes by current prices, and the heavily discounted EOL 6800 series has fallen in price to a lower tier.

If I were purchasing a new card today and the 6800 series was still available, then it's a no brainer to grab the higher tier card on sale. But there will be a 7800 card soon to directly compare the 6800 series to. And going by the trend so far it will be faster,and have more efficient power power usage. But those cards haven't launched yet.

Just give AMD an opportunity to launch those. Until then grab your 6800 cards before they are all gone at this liquidation price point!
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people buy a card based on what is available NOW so if price matters then the 6850 or 6870 are better buys. heck the oced 7770 costs 20-25 bucks more than what you can get a gtx560 for.
 
cannondale06 said:
people buy a card based on what is available NOW so if price matters then the 6850 or 6870 are better buys. heck the oced 7770 costs 20-25 bucks more than what you can get a gtx560 for.
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I believe the 560 is $189 according to the review. I haven't looked at the pricing personally as these cards don't excite me, but that puts them in the same price range if that is true.
 
But yes, as long as savvy purchasers can gobble up the higher tier 6800 series at awesome discounted prices, they should do so. Very good situation for consumers right now as the new cards are ushered in and the old is moved out the door.
 
cageymaru said:
I believe the 560 is $189 according to the review. I haven't looked at the pricing personally as these cards don't excite me, but that puts them in the same price range if that is true.
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a quick look on newegg shows a gtx560 for $169 which also has a $15 rebate bringing it to $154. the XFX has is supposed to be $179 or more but I have not seen them actually listed yet.

from the hardwarecanucks review "The XFX Black Edition DD is a great little card that can keep pace with and usually beat a HD 6850. Unfortunately a $180 price tag means it competes against NVIDIA’s vastly more powerful GTX 560 and that’s an unfair fight if there ever was one"
 
No one said the 6870/50s weren't better buys at the moment... we are looking at the big picture and the next 3-6 months... you're expecting AMD to sell these new cards at $130, which isn't a good business move no matter how much you try to please the masses. You say people buy the card based on what is available NOW( I'm guessing you mean present time), well guess what man, in about 3 months... it's be NOW again for someone else and the value of the 7700 will be a pretty good deal. If anything, we should be praising for the release as it's pushing out better performing cards out the door to make room for these. Good time for the low - mid range range consumer.
 
cannondale06 said:
a quick look on newegg shows a gtx560 for $169 which also has a $15 rebate bringing it to $154. the XFX has is supposed to be $179 or more but I have not seen them actually listed yet.

from the hardwarecanucks review The XFX Black Edition DD is a great little card that can keep pace with and usually beat a HD 6850. Unfortunately a $180 price tag means it competes against NVIDIA’s vastly more powerful GTX 560 and that’s an unfair fight if there ever was one
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Then Nvidia is chewing bubblegum and taking names then. Heck Nvidia doesn't even need to release a new card if they can afford to keep that type of stranglehold on the situation.

:)
 
heatthegreat said:
No one said the 6870/50s weren't better buys at the moment... we are looking at the big picture and the next 3-6 months... you're expecting AMD to sell these new cards at $130, which isn't a good business move no matter how much you try to please the masses. You say people buy the card based on what is available NOW( I'm guessing you mean present time), well guess what man, in about 3 months... it's be NOW again for someone else and the value of the 7700 will be a pretty good deal. If anything, we should be praising for the release as it's pushing out better performing cards out the door to make room for these. Good time for the low - mid range range consumer.
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but again, I am saying the same thing that reviews are saying which is if you are buying right now the 7770 makes no sense at its MSRP.


here is a good quate from the hardwarecanucks review:

"Initially released at $149 nearly a year ago (and now retailing for about $119) this Barts LE-based card manages to play on a nearly level footing with the HD 7770 most games. If you can’t see the ramifications of this, let’s make it clear: $159 doesn’t buy you an ounce more performance now than it did 10 months and a generation of GPUs ago. We can talk all day about how the Cape Verde cores are able to offer similar performance with less power, less heat and less noise but budget conscious gamers don’t usually give a damn about any of that. They care about a great bang for buck ratio and that’s precisely where the HD 7770 falls on its face."
 
This card should be priced at $95 I don't really think anything more should be said about it. Its preformance is equal to a 6850 which I can buy for $110.
 
You have to remember that the people readIng this forum are a very very very small portion of pc gamers. I talked to a guy the other day who "upgraded" from a 5770 to a 6770. He swore up and down that he got double the frame rates with his new card. He will probably buy this 7770 and think its going to be another huge jump because, well, 7>6. Amd is enjoying the new card market and is smart to start with high pricing. People will eat up these cards, even at the $200 price point. I will quote this a year from now and I think by the time I quote it, this card will be selling for $130 after rebate. The 6870 will be just another notch in video card history and this card will be a huge value to entry level gamers.
 
The people arguing that the 6850/6870 are a better value are correct but they also fail to realize that AMD and their AIB partners win either way. Those heavily discounted, higher performing, last generation products will still add to AMD's bottom line. The relatively high price of the HD7770/50 ensures that it doesn't cannibalize those sales and makes the older EOL'd products more attractive helping them to clear out the remaining stock.

Besides, the HD77XX series cards are not a replacement of the 68XX series, those are coming next month. The only part of the equation we're missing is competition, but something tells me there will be no price wars this generation.

Welcome to the graphics hardware duopoly regime, enjoy your stay.

Please, return to your whining now.
 
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Awesome and very interesting review. I really enjoyed reading it.


A very nice card, but I'm still waiting for the 7870 and Nvidia's equivalent though.

Anyway, there's always a price for newer tech, and this way AMD has a pretty good insurance they'll sell all their old stock. (6850/6870)
 
Cannondale06, stop and take a breath. I agree with you about the current pricing. We all do. Nobody is discrediting you; we all agree including Brent. But those cards will be gone soon is what we are saying and the new cards will go through their life cycle in the same way as the old cards would you not agree?

Now as far as performance and what gamers want, I agree that most of us could care less about electricity bills. BUT we do care about how far we can OC our hardware. A newer card that is more efficient power wise and runs cooler has more headroom to OC. Without being able to unlock the voltage that lil 7700 still had a pretty damn massive OC.

I can't wait to see what it can do with more voltage that will more than likely push it's operating temps to current card levels. See that's what gamers care about. How much untapped potential exists in our hardware. I think AMD delivered in spades on that front.

So when the old stuff is gone off the shelves and we aren't price comparing 6800's with 7700's, Nvidia isn't discounting the 660 series to compete with the discounted 6800 series; I think these lil engines that could will be a great value. And more than likely AMD will discount them a bit as they always do 3 months after launch.

Then value gamers can have their cake and eat it too.
 
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If AMD sells this 7700 at a price point of $110 - $140, they completely alienate their 6770 and the 6870 that are still on the shelves. No one is going to buy a 6770 when they can get a better performing 7700 at almost the same price and no one is going to buy a 6870/50 when they can get a equal performing 7700 for cheaper. With the current pricepoint, non savvy gpu buyers are going to buy up the new tech while smarter buyers will get rid of AMD's last gen stock for them. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Review sites job is review hardware. In most cases, it's not to sell hardware, but to review for the consumer. Any review site will lose credibility if they didn't try to keep money in consumers pockets.. this is why they are saying it's a bad price point compared to the currently priced hardware, but I'm pretty sure they also see the big picture and AMD's strategy.
 
this is were the 7770 fails though. This is pulled from anandtech review, and where i thought the Hardocp review failed. They were actually harder on the 6850/6870 review. In the 6850/6870, they actually showed a difference between the cards. Especially considering the cards were all very similar power.
"Ignoring the current price of the 6850 for the moment, on average the 7770 delivers 90% of the 6850’s gaming performance for 90% of the 6850’s launch price. In other words in 16 months AMD has moved nowhere along the price/performance curve – if you go by launch prices you’re getting the same amount of performance per dollar today as you did in October of 2010." So people that bought the old card at its great price, is just as good today. Thats more than impressive for an old card.
 
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I'm quite impressed by the 7770 performance.

Looking at the specs, it looked like it would be barely faster than the 5770. But it manages to keep up with the 6850.

"Unfortunately" the price is where AMD misses. Not by much though. The 6850 and 6870 are going bye bye. So in a couple of months the 7770 will be alone in the sub $159 camp.

Thing is the FOC versions bring the card very close to the $200 mark and that is not worth it IMO. Also Nvidia has nothing that can compete in this price range, that may change with kepler.
 
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Stoly said:
I'm quite impressed by the 7770 performance.

Looking at the specs, it looked like it would be barely faster than the 5770. But it manages to keep up with the 6850.

"Unfortunately" the price is where AMD misses. Not by much though. The 6850 and 6870 are going bye bye. So in a couple of months the 7770 will be alone in the sub $159 camp.

Thing is the FOC versions bring the card very close to the $200 mark and that is not worth it IMO. Also Nvidia has nothing that can compete in this price range, that may change with kepler.
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the stock clocked 7770 is slower than the 6850. the stock clocked 7770 beats the 2.5 year old 5770 by about 30% overall. how can you possibly find that impressive? and then on top of all that it costs as much as a 6870.
 
Good review, informative. Silver? I'd say more bronze, but I guess that's splitting hairs.

If AMD's only real competition is themselves, this points to poor planning on their part.

Hardware wise, things seem very good. AMD's inexperienced, almost completely new management is making me think more along the line of nvidia's management (not as bad, but on the same curve). This will be very unfortunate if this continues.
 
Does AMD have a public driver for these (7900 series) cards yet?

from what I can see....second new card in the series and not a whisper of a public driver that supports them.....WTF?:eek:
 
And the wait for a proper upgrade to the 5770 at the same launch price point continues. It is impressive to see how far AMD has come with efficiency per mm^2 and watt but the added gaming performance just isn't what I was hoping for.

At 12/8 CUs I think they could have done a better job of replacing the 68xx completely at the top while still taking care of the <=75W market with the 7750. If the 10CU 7770 is already above the PCI-E slot specs why not go for broke and make it take more use of the power connector with 12? It would also mean a less odd arrangement of CUs in comparison to Tahiti (4+3+3 wat?). I guess it comes down to wafer cost as even a few mm savings at these volumes will increase profits.

Hopefully NVidia will have launched the mid-range cards by summer so I can decide if anything is worth getting this year.
 
cannondale06 said:
the stock clocked 7770 is slower than the 6850. the stock clocked 7770 beats the 2.5 year old 5770 by about 30% overall. how can you possibly find that impressive? and then on top of all that it costs as much as a 6870.
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That 30% makes the difference between playable and unplayable.

Besides AMD can price the card at 159 simply because nvidia has nothing that can compete in the same price range.

Once kepler comes out and IF it can compete in the same price range, then AMD will adjust its prices.

THAT'S WHY WE NEED COMPETITION!!!!
 
Stoly said:
That 30% makes the difference between playable and unplayable.
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lol, the 5770 is 2.5 years old now so a 30% overall advantage is a joke. and again the 7770 costs more than 6850 on top of that. how can you possibly call the 7770 impressive? you could have already bought a 30% faster card for less money by now anyway.
 
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magoo said:
Does AMD have a public driver for these (7900 series) cards yet?

from what I can see....second new card in the series and not a whisper of a public driver that supports them.....WTF?:eek:
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How dare you tell the emperor he's naked.
 
cannondale06 said:
lol, the 5770 is 2.5 years old now so a 30% overall advantage is a joke. and again the 7770 costs more than 6850 on top of that. how can you possibly call the 7770 impressive?
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This right here. 30% increase over the 5770 I bought at launch is rather sad at the same price point. If this was priced $100-$120 then it wouldn't be as bad.
 
When the 6870 launched you could get the 5870 for cheaper and better performance at under $200 on sale. This happens and its nothing new. Those cards still got great reviews then. Why all the fuss now?
 
This performance per dollar fixing is very disappointing and worrying.
We suppose to have more performance per dollar each generation, that's what is called progress.
Anybody could imagine how much a card would cost nowadays if they had the same perf/$ as e.g. the voodoo 2 card...
And if the prices are higher because of the old stock remaining, that's simply bad planning.
What makes it possible for AMD to do this is the lack of competition.
 
Fantasyalive said:
When the 6870 launched you could get the 5870 for cheaper and better performance at under $200 on sale. This happens and its nothing new. Those cards still got great reviews then. Why all the fuss now?
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I think 40 or 50 bucks is way more sensitive when dealing with this price range of card.
 
I love how people are crying that 7770 doesnt beat a 6870 in performance. Its not meant to. its meant to replace the 6770 which it does beat, and when the remaining stock of the 6000 series cards are gone and kepler is launched these 7770 will sell for around $119 and be very good value. When the 5770 was launched it sold for $175~ now they sell for $89-100 after rebate. i expect the same from the 7770...
 
Fantasyalive said:
When the 6870 launched you could get the 5870 for cheaper and better performance at under $200 on sale. This happens and its nothing new. Those cards still got great reviews then. Why all the fuss now?
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That was stock clearing prices. The 6870 has been at $150 after MIR for quite awhile now. A lot of the clearance 5870 that were sub $200 where refurbs anyway.
 
buttons said:
I love how people are crying that 7770 doesnt beat a 6870 in performance. Its not meant to. its meant to replace the 6770 which it does beat, and when the remaining stock of the 6000 series cards are gone and kepler is launched these 7770 will sell for around $119 and be very good value. When the 5770 was launched it sold for $175~ now they sell for $89-100 after rebate. i expect the same from the 7770...
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perhaps you should pay more attention. people are complaining that it does not beat cards that are much cheaper. the 6770 is nothing but a 5770 which is now a 2.5 year old card. to only beat that card by 30% or so on average while costing more than a faster 6850 is a freaking joke.
 
Couple of problem I have with this review.

First it gets beat by the GTX 560 by over 10 fps in all the game comparisons but is still touted as the same game experience. 10 fps faster is not the same experience.

Second, AMD's card a generation back is beating this card in all the game comparisons yet it stills get a Silver Award.

I gotta read some other reviews to get an idea how much Hardocp was paid by AMD to do this review.

Way too favorable a review IMO.
 
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