Starcraft II

Vermillion said:
Thor's are half worthless as it is. 20% damage increase to massive means jack and shit. Thor ground range for a Thor is 7 where Colossus with Thermal Lance is 9. Plus with that minor (and useless) buff Terran is still getting nerfed again with repair. VR's will just own a Thor post patch because Thor AA is pretty piss poor in reality.

Tanks half-assed? Check.
Depot before Rax? Check.
Reapers the most worthless unit in the game? Check.
Can't repair BC/Tanks/Thor/Barracks to make them cost effective? Check.

At this rate it may be time to switch to Protoss...
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You aren't a very good player then. PvT is almost completely balanced as it is. Toss just has a disadvantage early game, but mid/late game they're pretty much even.. Just stop using tier 1 units when you're in your late game noob.

The only race protoss is more imba against is Zerg with the colossi. Other than that terran is the most imba race imo.. If you wanted to climb up the ladder as high as you can, then you might as well play terran unless you're pro.
 
chockomonkey said:
You can't repair your your units as terran? wtf?
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He's talking about how SCVs are now treated by the AI as equal in threat to the unit they're repairing, meaning in combat your units will target the workers repairing Thors and stuff automatically.

A nerf for sure, but repairing terran units still plays an enormous (and more realistic now) role.
 
chockomonkey said:
You can't repair your your units as terran? wtf?
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Dreaz said:
Vermillion sounds like a frustrated bronze player.

Reapers aren't useless, they beat hellions 1v1 and counter the new early game in TvT with the helion opening nicely.

Tanks are half-assed? I don't even...
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Wendig0 said:
You aren't a very good player then. PvT is almost completely balanced as it is. Toss just has a disadvantage early game, but mid/late game they're pretty much even.. Just stop using tier 1 units when you're in your late game noob.

The only race protoss is more imba against is Zerg with the colossi. Other than that terran is the most imba race imo.. If you wanted to climb up the ladder as high as you can, then you might as well play terran unless you're pro.
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Wow...way to necro up a two month old post that doesn't even apply to the game anymore. It's quite apparent none of you read everything so you missed the fact it was all based on information and theorycraft before the 1.2 patch was even released. Yet, apparently I'm the "noob". :rolleyes:

Somethings are true while others aren't as bad as people like myself assumed they might be. Repair wasn't nerfed nearly as bad as it appeared it might be. Overall it was a moot point because that was during GSL3 when oGsMC showed the world how to crush bunkers (or anything that gets repaired) with an incredibly well placed FF anyways.

Many people still believe tanks are underpowered meaning you need more to reach critical mass which cripples your army elsewhere. However, now people don't complain and Terran players just deal with it which wasn't the case two months ago when I originally made the post in question. This is why you don't see any truly tank heavy builds anywhere other than TvT unlike builds a few patches ago.

Reapers are still pretty damned worthless overall and while they are mediocre versus the new Hellion TvT build (Thanks iEchoic) they don't stop 3-4 blue flame hellions from crushing the mineral line. How many Reapers are you going to spend money on to stop blue flame hellions that are faster then Reapers in the first place?

As for PvT the ladder is still all-ins, very Bio heavy builds, or 2-port Banshee because they work and stop PvT from going into late game. Unless your name is IMMvp, Jinro, or MarineKingPrime, for many people it just isn't smart to try to out macro a Protoss and go into late game. PvT is still the most unbalanced matchup IMHO. P dies to T early game and T dies to P late game (again provided your name isn't something like oGsMC, IMMvp, Jinro, or MarineKingPrime). It shouldn't be like that.

As for climbing the ladder the easiest race to get into Masters is Protoss because you simply 4 gate the whole way. No macro or micro required.
 
Vermillion said:
As for climbing the ladder the easiest race to get into Masters is Protoss because you simply 4 gate the whole way. No macro or micro required.
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It's painful how true this is.

I decided to off-race a bit with some friends one night a couple months back and went Protoss and decided I'd try being on the other end of the 4gate for once.

I did it and was like.. really? That's all there is to it?

Jesus. No wonder every Protoss I've ever played against has done it.
 
I have no idea why people necro'd a 2 month old post that was probably made when he was raging. Honestly I just don't care if someone complains about any race. Actions speak louder than words. I don't find a reason for people to be overly vocal about race unless there's cash involved (pro gamers). If you TRULY think race A is super strong and easier, then play it. There's nothing stopping you. End of story.

But after playing all 3 races, most people have to admit that protoss is indeed simply easier to play. A weaker overall player (overall skills like macro ability, micro basics) can get further with protoss than the other races most of the time.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
But after playing all 3 races, most people have to admit that protoss is indeed simply easier to play. A weaker overall player (overall skills like macro ability, micro basics) can get further with protoss than the other races most of the time.
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I have to agree. I play Protoss, and I fully admit that they don't require quite the APM the other races require. At the highest levels I don't believe they are any easier to be successful with than any other race, but for 90% of the players out there, yeah they are easier.
 
What makes me rage is when I see a protoss 1a to victory during the middle of a fight, with 20 apm and I have 250+ during the fight.

I remember in BETA I was tearing it up as protoss then lost interest. 4 Gate was definitely easy to do.
 
Protoss is the easiest race to get started with, I can play zerg fairly well and they're certainly harder to keep up with macro wise. Protoss gets more difficult later game because you won't have as big of an army and it strictly comes down to your micro. I don't like this "lol protoss is ez race" talk because it is bullshit for the most part. Once your in a league with people that can always stop a four gate(except pvp) that's just not true any more. Anyway, I'm not really willing to debate this any more beyond this post because none of us are very good at the game, that and I'm just tired of the discussion; if you're really better than me the game is balanced enough that should be able to beat me a majority of the time. I will say that I never "1a to victory" what so ever, Refraxion should know that better than anyone, and I'm only a low diamond. Unless you've played thousands of games as random I'm pretty sure it's difficult to pass objective criticism. I don't care who is better, I don't care what race I'm playing, it's a game and it's damn fun. I will say if you're really thinking your losing because another race is easier than yours or imbalanced, you're thinking about the game incorrectly.
 
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I don't think anybody's really saying "Protoss is the ez race". Or at least nobody rational is saying that. I know I'm not.

For my part, I'm just saying that 4gate is almost incredibly simple to pull off and Protoss is the only race with a build that simple that can be applied successfully to all three matchups, and that can all by itself carry a player all the way to low diamond, simply because a large percentage of players just don't know how to defend it.

Yes, you absolutely will hit a wall once you get to diamond. You certainly won't progress any higher without learning more and getting a lot more variety into your play.

Anyone that says otherwise just isn't paying attention.

The complaint, if there is a valid one, is just that the other races don't have a build like that for them to fall back on all the time.

If you're competent with Zerg, have someone that's good at the 4gate do it to you. Ask yourself how much more difficult, how much more stressful it is for you as a Zerg to try and defend that than it is for you as a Protoss to actually perform the attack. And then ask yourself if there's a build for either of the other races that can apply that kind of complete pressure to the opposing player and that also can totally dictate both their build and the pacing of the game.
 
I'm not saying I have problems against protoss. Its just when they 1a to victory is when I find it absurd lol. I have been doing very well against protoss but never the less my apm is much higher than the protoss almost at all times.

As a zerg/terran player I have faced MANY good protoss players, especially the korean 4-gate players and I will tell you that it is a living nightmare playing against a good korean 4-gater as zerg.
 
refraxion said:
I'm not saying I have problems against protoss. Its just when they 1a to victory is when I find it absurd lol. I have been doing very well against protoss but never the less my apm is much higher than the protoss almost at all times.

As a zerg/terran player I have faced MANY good protoss players, especially the korean 4-gate players and I will tell you that it is a living nightmare playing against a good korean 4-gater as zerg.
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you kinda have to roach rush, lol. I think HDstarcraft had one of his daily ladders against a high level 4gate (though not extremely high level).
 
Protoss 4 gate will always have some sort of sentry added in, you wont be able to effectively roach rush the protoss. High diamond to master league at least heh.
 
Yeah that fast five roach rush is pretty much a joke. Mass roach with burrow and tunneling claws can be such a pain in the ass. They're so amazingly cost effective with those upgrades, makes my stalker's wieners sad, lol.
 
Decko87 said:
Yeah that fast five roach rush is pretty much a joke. Mass roach with burrow and tunneling claws can be such a pain in the ass. They're so amazingly cost effective with those upgrades, makes my stalker's wieners sad, lol.
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Yeah, if you don't have detection and either a vastly bigger army or a bunch of immortals burrowed roaches is such a huge pain in the ass.
 
petertew said:
Yeah, if you don't have detection and either a vastly bigger army or a bunch of immortals burrowed roaches is such a huge pain in the ass.
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If you don't manage to get an immortal or two out if you scout zerg going mass roach you really don't deserve to win. A roach takes 23 hits to kill an immortal; immortals kill a roach in 3. Transition to cols with thermal lance and you're in the money. I mean sure roaches being 75/25 is pretty insane considering they have 145 hp and that damn regen but protoss really shouldn't be having too much trouble with it.

What do I know, though, I just siege up my tanks and count the wins :D.
 
Decko87 said:
Yeah that fast five roach rush is pretty much a joke. Mass roach with burrow and tunneling claws can be such a pain in the ass. They're so amazingly cost effective with those upgrades, makes my stalker's wieners sad, lol.
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Yeah burrowed roaches really counter stalker armies if they don't have detect. Add in some hydras before the inevitable colossus and you should be able to take it. If not, it'll always be corrupter / colossus.
 
Falcon Punch said:
If you don't manage to get an immortal or two out if you scout zerg going mass roach you really don't deserve to win. A roach takes 23 hits to kill an immortal; immortals kill a roach in 3. Transition to cols with thermal lance and you're in the money. I mean sure roaches being 75/25 is pretty insane considering they have 145 hp and that damn regen but protoss really shouldn't be having too much trouble with it.

What do I know, though, I just siege up my tanks and count the wins :D.
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Even with 1 or 2 immortals in your army you can still very easily lose against mass roach. They can target fire the immortals down burrow/regen, pop up and kill the rest of your army. Add on Zergs reinforce rate and it's still very scary.
 
I spent the majority of my weekend playing SC2, man I'm enjoying this game. Didn't play any PvP but I did do alot of co-op games against Medium/Hard AI. I still suck but I'm getting better! (slowly but surely...).
 
After some time not playing, I decided to go off in a 3vcoop hard ai and tried my hand at FE with a terran.

Well, let's just say I got caught with my pants down... only had like 6 marines and two tanks and 1k minerals compared to 3 pooled ai armies. Good thing my teammates bailed me out.

lmfao.
 
On co-op vs AI is that all 3 of the enemies attack one player early on and if your teammates don't respond quickly it can cripple one of you. I suppose it's not terribly different than a good 3 man team but the synchronizing of the attack is pretty good with the AI.
 
kabob983 said:
On co-op vs AI is that all 3 of the enemies attack one player early on and if your teammates don't respond quickly it can cripple one of you. I suppose it's not terribly different than a good 3 man team but the synchronizing of the attack is pretty good with the AI.
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AI is easily exploited. I grinded all of the co-op achievements and even on insane my strategy would simply be able to win 1vAI (1v2 or 1v3, didn't matter). Any sort of air / drop harassment auto wins the game.
 
Currently downloading all patches, excited I get to play with a broke HD5770 gpu I baked in the oven instead of my on board 256

-edit

So apparently my battlenet account was hacked ..yay..
 
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Intel_Hydralisk said:
AI is easily exploited. I grinded all of the co-op achievements and even on insane my strategy would simply be able to win 1vAI (1v2 or 1v3, didn't matter). Any sort of air / drop harassment auto wins the game.
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See, Insane AI kills me before I can mount any sort of defense against them. Remember, I'm still new to the game!

MrSneis said:
I'm a noob too anyone want to play with me?
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For sure, shoot me a friend request. Kabob | 684

TLsurf said:
Currently downloading all patches, excited I get to play with a broke HD5770 gpu I baked in the oven instead of my on board 256

-edit

So apparently my battlenet account was hacked ..yay..
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Wow, that sucks, I suppose I should make my password a little more difficult to crack since my account has every Blizzard game except for WoW on it...that'd suck to lose 'em all.
 
kabob983 said:
Wow, that sucks, I suppose I should make my password a little more difficult to crack since my account has every Blizzard game except for WoW on it...that'd suck to lose 'em all.
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I have one of those Blizzard authenticators...(you can even use the Blizzard smartphone app on your ipod or smartphone)...shouldn't have to ever worry about account breaches with that.
 
Holy crap IMMvp knocked out already in the Ro32. ST_July really came back strong after oGsMC dominated him.
 
northrop said:
northrop - 622.
I'm rarely on, but I'm always up for a game or two. :p
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I'll add ya as well.

Negative Decibel said:
I'm fairly new too. but I'd love to play some [h] noobs.
negative
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What's your character code?

dave3533 said:
I have one of those Blizzard authenticators...(you can even use the Blizzard smartphone app on your ipod or smartphone)...shouldn't have to ever worry about account breaches with that.
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I downloaded that app on the Android market but I've yet to use it. I probably should give it a whirl.
 
^Bonksnp.724. add me as well. I'm usually on at least every other night and need practice BAD.
 
^same. it's been a while since the last time we played together.
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