I was looking for 30" of real-estate and my eyes haven't had problems with wide gamut so the U3011 was a no-brainer. It's all down to personal preference I guess.
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Dell U3011 coming soon.
- Thread starter Snowdog
- Start date
I was looking for 30" of real-estate and my eyes haven't had problems with wide gamut so the U3011 was a no-brainer. It's all down to personal preference I guess.
Startup123
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Standard gamut monitors cannot display precisely sRGB content while wide gamut monitors can. The difference is rather substantial. If you have an accurate monitor color profile of your standard gamut monitor and have access to a wide gamut monitor you can use the wide gamut monitor with a color managed program like Photoshop to see the difference between the simulated sRGB color space and the space of your monitor. Everyone who wants to participate in this argument should have witness this test before making any statement about the capabilities of standard vs wide gamut monitors. If those of you with standard gamut monitors have monitor profiles you can send it to me and I can tell you the difference between sRGB space and your monitor's color space in RGB numbers used by the video card.
Regarding software needed, next version of Internet Explorer is color managed and is about to be released and they need to make one of the major movie players color managed and that's basically it. This will immediately result in rapid shift towards the wide gamut monitors and those with standard gamut will find themselves as the minority when non-color managed content and software like games start to be designed referring to wide gamut spaces. And if you have noticed how the software companies and monitor manufacturers love forcing upgrades, you get the picture
Also have in mind that even now there is considerable wide gamut content available that can be enjoyed fully only from wide gamut monitor users. If you go to a photo site like flickr and check the color profiles of the photos there you will find out that quite a lot of them have wider gamut color profiles.
The difference is irrelevant. Consumer wide gamut calibration has significant inadequacies, there is no guarantee it is any more accurate than a native sRGB monitor and you are also sacrificing significant chunk of your limited 8 bit color depth to deal with calibration. You probably have some nice banding along with your other inaccuracies.
That is basically nonsense. Having one movie player doesn't solve the wide gamut problem. What if you want to use a different movie player? Once there is one game that supports wide gamut will then claim it solved for gaming? The whole point is that the overwhelming majority of software doesn't work properly with wide gamut monitors. You are stuck with a very narrow subset of applications. That will be the case years into the future.
More nonsense. There is almost no actual wide gamut content anywhere. I have never encountered a gallery that was in a wide gamut and I spend a fair bit of time on picture galleries like pbase. No one post in wider gamuts as it would be largely unusable for most people not using firefox and only be a subtle difference to someone with firefox and a calibrated monitor, thus no one bothers. All I have see is the occasional test image like this(where the author acknowledge the differences are subtle):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acornsarebitter/4947300564/
Now if you spend your day looking at test images, I guess you say there is content. But really we aren't missing anything.
From what I've read NEC's PA241W-BK-SV and PA271W-BK-SV are probably in the price range of the U3011, and have good sRGB emulations that can be properly calibrated within the monitor.
/Threadjack dun
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Nick,
Late response here--been busy shopping for Thanksgiving/Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals
. Thanks for this comprehensive info. If I had seen this earlier I probably would've jumped on the U3011 while it was 35% off. From your earlier post I didn't figure out that this only happens in Custom RGB mode and that you can calibrate any of the other RGB modes like Standard or Warm. I have a calibrator and so I'd be using that. I was just concerned that letting the monitor sleep would completely screw up my calibration, but from your explanation it seems that's not the case.Man, missed out on that 35% off deal for nothing
Oh well, the U3011 is back on the radar and here's hoping another deal comes along.Startup123
Weaksauce
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How can you say that when you haven't seen it?
Again, you are talking about things you have never tried.
LOL are you a psychic with a crystal ball? If so you should change your job as you are not very good at that. It is funny how you are trying to tell me what I see on my monitor when you have no experience with calibrating and profiling wide gamut monitors.
No, but if that's the only reason holding those who otherwise would love to have wide gamut monitor will be enough to push themarket to a faster wide gamut monitor transition and thus drag the rest of the players in the color management boat too. You don't seem to understand that the transition to wide gamut displays is inevitable and faster we get there the better.
I just went to flickr and made a search for the photos posted today, on the first page there were 64 photos from them 11 were with color profiles other than the narrower sRGB space. These are not occasional test images and 11 out of 64 may be not much but it is an indication. As an evidence that I'm not using crystal balls and making stuff up I'm providing you with the links to those 11 images even though I don't like most of them.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4923872263_3fb2dece43_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4010/4294112359_2729602847_z.jpg?zz=1
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2587/4175105290_78556d433e_z.jpg?zz=1
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2431/3697550972_3ab9440641_z.jpg?zz=1
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3608/3396742808_263065a956_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3425/3347150747_c1e60cc1a1_z.jpg?zz=1
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3520/3257214637_4926ea1be0_z.jpg?zz=1
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3065/3107941310_65a75d694b_z.jpg?zz=1
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3167/3016177262_fb9f619dd2_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3243/2985697549_ce07bed1aa_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2032/2472936827_88f48c7575_b.jpg
Startup123,
recommend you add 'dog to your ignore list. He trolls wide gamut discussions arguing against them and ignores facts presented that disprove his claims and conjecture. Its a waste of time arguing against an anonymous troll who behaves that way.
PC_User, we do have a wide gamut thread, same problem over there
Need a moderator around here... I still like my idea for a prosumer owners thread. That'd save us from endless latency discussions and non-owner wide gamut haters.
recommend you add 'dog to your ignore list. He trolls wide gamut discussions arguing against them and ignores facts presented that disprove his claims and conjecture. Its a waste of time arguing against an anonymous troll who behaves that way.
PC_User, we do have a wide gamut thread, same problem over there
Need a moderator around here... I still like my idea for a prosumer owners thread. That'd save us from endless latency discussions and non-owner wide gamut haters.
slowfreight
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That is correct I am currently running an EVGA 480 GTX. My vibrance setting was set at 50% by default.
I just noticed this monitor actually makes a really annoying buzzing sound if I turn the brightness below 90. I can't stand such noises so I guess this monitor is going back as well.
I didn't notice it in the "noisy" office, but at home it's very audible.
This is a moot point seeing how you'll be returning the U3011, but I was going to suggest you post some pictures of your monitor but oh well. By the way you mentioned something about a nerd cave where you could adjust brightness to 0% to 10% because it was dark. Well I too like a well lit room for my day to day computer usage yet the monitor was still too bright for my taste. To each his own.
For the record so far I have not had any issues after I adjusted the brightness to 10%. I too suffered from eye strain simply because the monitor was too bright. Not to mention that the anti glare coating sparkled like the 4th of July with anything above 50% brightness.
The brightness is an issue of its own as far as I'm concerned.
With all my other monitors I have it at one setting and forget about it. With the U3011 I have to constantly change it because it either feels too bright or too dim every time I sit down in front of it. Not sure if that's because the monitor warms up really slowly after going to sleep or what, but yesterday I was at 0% brightness at one point and found that to be good, then I went to get some food and when I sat down again I had to set it at 70% for it to look good.
I only have my iphone as a camera at this time and I don't think that will do any good in capturing the screen.
As for the sparkle are you sure that's because of the coating? I thought that was caused by the IPS panel. Other non-reflective monitors I have that are PVA panels show no signs at all of a sparkle effect.
As for returning the monitor I will decide what to do when I look at the monitor one last time after work today. If it looks good I will tell Dell I want a new one because of the buzzing sound, but if I'm unsure about it I will try to get my money back.
With all my other monitors I have it at one setting and forget about it. With the U3011 I have to constantly change it because it either feels too bright or too dim every time I sit down in front of it. Not sure if that's because the monitor warms up really slowly after going to sleep or what, but yesterday I was at 0% brightness at one point and found that to be good, then I went to get some food and when I sat down again I had to set it at 70% for it to look good.
I only have my iphone as a camera at this time and I don't think that will do any good in capturing the screen.
As for the sparkle are you sure that's because of the coating? I thought that was caused by the IPS panel. Other non-reflective monitors I have that are PVA panels show no signs at all of a sparkle effect.
As for returning the monitor I will decide what to do when I look at the monitor one last time after work today. If it looks good I will tell Dell I want a new one because of the buzzing sound, but if I'm unsure about it I will try to get my money back.
You don't need a crystal ball to relate facts. Calibration and profiling will cut into you bit available bit depth. The wider the native gamut, the more available bit depth will be sacrificed while displaying standard content. That is simply the way it is.
Also if you will take this back to the appropriate thread, you will notice that someone has posted the information about the largely awful accuracy of the consumer grade colorimeters that you base your smug claims of superior accuracy upon.
Why don't you keep your wide gamut zealotry in the related thread we already had for this.
This U3011 thread was going along fine until you brought your nonsense here.
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The brightness is an issue of its own as far as I'm concerned.
With all my other monitors I have it at one setting and forget about it. With the U3011 I have to constantly change it because it either feels too bright or too dim every time I sit down in front of it. Not sure if that's because the monitor warms up really slowly after going to sleep or what, but yesterday I was at 0% brightness at one point and found that to be good, then I went to get some food and when I sat down again I had to set it at 70% for it to look good.
Yes, these 30" warm up very slowly (slower than any other LCD I have tried). I like a monitor that goes fairly dim, and when I first received my 3007-HC, I thought it was fine, but after using it for an hour, it was too bright on zero for me.
I have read 3 long reviews of this monitor and they all raved about how good things looked on it and never mention anything about the wide color gamet problem, why is that? Is it that subjective? Is itr something only a few people notice, like inpur lag?
Whoisthisreally
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Strong colour saturation has a positive effect on percieved image quality. WCG monitors have colours so saturated that they are inaccurate for games and video. So, of course the evaluation on WCG depends on the person's need for image accuracy, and also the type of game. So for games that have no basis in reality, like WoW, people won't find WCG as objectionable as it is when depicting skin tones and real people.
The U3011 has what should be an effective sRGB (standard gamut) mode like the U2711, which is a positive sales point.
Just about every CCFL LCD I have used takes several minutes to reach full brightness, the 30" seemed to take about 20 minutes.
Also depends on the brightness you use. It appears to warm up faster on high. I will quantify later.
Sailor_Moon
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We must account for a loss of tonal values but we should not overestimate the problem. Calculations inside the CMM are done with high-precision in the PCS and every implementation should offer a dithering option. A FRC stage is also implemented inside the display electronic (true also for good/ current non WCG screens) to avoid a loss of tonal values after processing of the input signal. If you have a display that is very non neutral, doesn't have an extensive OSD and electronic while you have defined calibration aims that must be mostly reached via video card LUT you will of course suffer from a huge loss of tonal values already before transformations of a CMM will be carried out.
Best regards
Denis
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I do nothing that needs color accuracy and I'm a big gamer. How does the "game mode" on this monitor look?
![Zarathustra[H]](https://cdn.hardforum.com/data/avatars/m/9/9298.jpg?1715876891){kind=avatar}
Zarathustra[H]
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It looks OK to me.
The only downside is that occasionally on really dark scenes (like you find during the night in S.T.A.L.K.E.R - Call of Pripyat, the corners of the screen have a slight sheen to them, which can be a little bit annoying.
I still prefer this monitor over what I had before, a Dell 2405FPW I bought back in 2005.
Startup123
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As Sailor_Moon already explained very well to you, calibration for all all gamut monitors if not achieved with the hardware controls will reduce the width of the color space available, however this is more severe with 8 bit channels monitors which is a typical standard gamut monitors. Profiling has no effect on that and you should have not mentioned it.
The problem with you statement is that is that you know very little about what you are talking about. This is a Photoshp test file available on the AMD web site http://www.amd.com/us/Documents/ramp.psd that everyone can download and test how good their monitors are with avoiding banding. All standard gamut monitor users will see a horrendous banding when they open this file in Photoshop without any possibility to ever avoid it, while the users like me with wide gamut 10 bit channels monitors using display port and 10 bit channels video card can enjoy banding free display.
If you want to educate yourself better you can find plenty of useful information on this site by reading intelligent posts like this one http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1035786643&postcount=22
Even if users with wide gamut monitors don't have 10 bit video cards and software to support it, their 10 bit monitors are still an advantage as explained in this review http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/content/dell_u2711.htm#colour
Yes, I just read your ignorant reply there and gave you some facts which I recommend to be checked from everyone interested http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1557391&page=4 message # 70
Rreally? Thanks for deciding this for all of us because we have no brains to decide for ourselves what makes sense and what not. Here is a link to my first post in this thread which gives very good information about the pros and cons of both standard and wide gamut monitors and is perfectly relevant response to the quoted message http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1036498014&postcount=688
Everything you are posting about standard vs wide gamut monitors on this site shows your ignorance and is thus misleading.
See, I understand that once you bought a wide gamut monitor that you didn't like and returned it. That's fine and it is all good to share your experience here however the problem with your advices against wide gamut is that you ignore the fact that wide gamut monitors have serious advantages over standard gamut and there are people who need them. And you are attacking everyone representing those people who simply like you share their experiences as if for you this is not possible.
I suggest you grow up a little
Zephalephelah
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You do not want this monitor. This monitor is for those who require color accuracy.
This monitor has a moderate input lag which is noticable by anyone who is an avid gamer.
Additionally, you will need a pretty expensive video card to run 2500x1600 in a game well. The card I'm going to buy for it will cost me $550 + $200 for a Corsair Modular PowerSupply to handle the extra power required by the video card.
If you really must have this panel, then the HP ZR30w has a much better input lag due to the lack of a scaler and color profiles wrapped in an OSD package. By removing these things, the HP version has cut the input lag by as much as 250% over the Dell.
I game frequently myself, but I need this monitor for Photoshop and Premiere CS5 Image and Video editing. So I need the scaler and the color profiles. I've found that my ability to play has diminished noticably on this monitor compared to my prior setup due to the input lag, but it is a compromise that I'm willing to make for the professional uses this monitor has to offer.
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Zephalephelah
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Startup123,
recommend you add 'dog to your ignore list. He trolls wide gamut discussions arguing against them and ignores facts presented that disprove his claims and conjecture. Its a waste of time arguing against an anonymous troll who behaves that way.
PC_User, we do have a wide gamut thread, same problem over there
Need a moderator around here... I still like my idea for a prosumer owners thread. That'd save us from endless latency discussions and non-owner wide gamut haters.
Like it or not, conversations about wide gamut and input lag are indeed conversations about this monitor. They might not apply to you, but they are nonetheless specifications which will be discussed. Deal with it!
Besides, it's not like we are muddling a concentrated thread. This thread already has 750 posts. If you don't like the posts, skip them when you realize they are about something you don't care about. The point is that other people do care about them and your viewpoint is not the only one. If you can't relax about it, then go and open your own forum and make rules that state things like "You can only talk about the things *I* want to talk about"...
I game a lot myself and I don't notice any lag whatsoever. I play (and excel at) games that require very quick eyes and hands like Counter-Strike, Quake 3, Gun Game. Monitor and mouse technology has come far enough for me not to be hindered by my equipment.
Also, the Dell monitor is for anyone wanting a fairly cheap 30" monitor. At least here in Norway the HP, Nec, Samsung and Eizo alternatives are 30-50% more expensive.
The Game mode is too saturated to be useful in my mind. It also has dynamic contrast which is something I can do without. I use the sRGB mode for everything. And you can use the Adobe RGB mode if you want slightly more saturated colors.
This is again incorrect. You make a lot of mistakes for someone so smug. Higher bit depth has nothing to do with wider gamut. There are 10 bit standard gamut displays that could be in connection with pro series graphics card.
Example:
http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=aa6aec61-64c6-4e38-a71e-8533e1ae44d5
When I was mentioning the loss of bit depth, I was considering 8 bit options, as it would be the case for most, because last I checked you need Professional grade graphics card and then it only works in a small handful of applications.
Has this changed?
I do want a 30" monitor. I had the Gateway 30" until it died after 4 years. I have 2 EVGA 8800 Ultras SLI| and I mostly play RTS and Simulations so lag is not an issue. I like the inputs on this monitor, I can use it as my TV with HDMI. But if the wide color gamet is truly a problem I will skip on it.
The Wide Gamut is a problem, but the sRGB mode is pretty good. Unless you're very picky I don't think you'll find much problem with the sRGB mode. You'll end up using the sRGB on most monitors anyway.
I love all the inputs. This is the first monitor I've bought with more inputs than my Eizo. I love all the aspect ratio features allowing me to play Xbox in 16:9 with black bars over and under the image. I love being able to change the gamma when playing Xbox because it feels like cheating.
I don't love the IPS panel with its weird shine and sparkle effect which seems even more obtrusive here than on my old Dell 30". I have to look directly at the center of the monitor from about 3 feet away to avoid the shine. From my normal working position there's a very visible shine over the bottom part of the screen which also causes all solid colors to look like gradients. I much rather prefer the S-PVA panels of my Eizo monitor. The only way I have found to counteract this is to tilt the monitor backwards so I look straight on it, but this feels wrong, I like to have my monitors vertical.
I hate the extreme time it takes this monitor to warm up. The 3007WFP I have at work is full on almost instantly. My U3011 takes at least 10-20 minutes to get to full brightness which means I have to start out at 70-80% brightness and then continuously turn down the brightness as the monitor warms up. I now have it at 0-10% brightness like "everyone" else after the warm up period.
And I still find it very straining on the eyes even though I sit in front of my 3007WFP at work for 8-10 hours every day with no issues whatsoever. I have no clue what difference between these two models causes this problem for me.
I love all the inputs. This is the first monitor I've bought with more inputs than my Eizo. I love all the aspect ratio features allowing me to play Xbox in 16:9 with black bars over and under the image. I love being able to change the gamma when playing Xbox because it feels like cheating.
I don't love the IPS panel with its weird shine and sparkle effect which seems even more obtrusive here than on my old Dell 30". I have to look directly at the center of the monitor from about 3 feet away to avoid the shine. From my normal working position there's a very visible shine over the bottom part of the screen which also causes all solid colors to look like gradients. I much rather prefer the S-PVA panels of my Eizo monitor. The only way I have found to counteract this is to tilt the monitor backwards so I look straight on it, but this feels wrong, I like to have my monitors vertical.
I hate the extreme time it takes this monitor to warm up. The 3007WFP I have at work is full on almost instantly. My U3011 takes at least 10-20 minutes to get to full brightness which means I have to start out at 70-80% brightness and then continuously turn down the brightness as the monitor warms up. I now have it at 0-10% brightness like "everyone" else after the warm up period.
And I still find it very straining on the eyes even though I sit in front of my 3007WFP at work for 8-10 hours every day with no issues whatsoever. I have no clue what difference between these two models causes this problem for me.
Just a followup on warmup. I noticed the effect a lot more when I had my 3007, but my Nec2409 exhibits similar behavior. I just characterized it at the lowest setting:
Code:
Time on Brightness (cd/m2)
5 sec 17
30 sec 24
1 min 31
2 min 38
4 min 44
8 min 50
16 min 55
1 hour 70 (stable)I think 20 minutes+ warmup is typical for CCFL screens.
20min, seriously? That's how long it takes for my 10 year old CRT to warm up...
Zephalephelah
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Sorry Twiik, THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of gamers can't be wrong on this one. Input Lag is an issue and the very best professional gamers play on TN-panels because of it.
I'm coming from a CRT (not TN though) and I'm telling you that the difference is noticable. If you're coming from other LCD panels, then you haven't noticed the difference because you're already coming from the same environment. I'm telling you the difference between TN and IPS is like playing on satellite dish vs cable. It's DEFINITELY noticable!
You're missing one of the points which is that some users are thread-crapping on the various u3011 threads concerning wide gamut, thus making it more difficult for the rest of us (like myself) who *do* care about wide gamut.
Oh and please spare me the attitude, ok thanks.
Zephalephelah
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It wasn't just addressing you bad144. And I thought your point was okay, but was an example that fit into what I had to say.
How many of us here are professional gamers?
nitromullet
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The Wide Gamut is a problem, but the sRGB mode is pretty good. Unless you're very picky I don't think you'll find much problem with the sRGB mode. You'll end up using the sRGB on most monitors anyway.
I love all the inputs. This is the first monitor I've bought with more inputs than my Eizo. I love all the aspect ratio features allowing me to play Xbox in 16:9 with black bars over and under the image. I love being able to change the gamma when playing Xbox because it feels like cheating.
I don't love the IPS panel with its weird shine and sparkle effect which seems even more obtrusive here than on my old Dell 30". I have to look directly at the center of the monitor from about 3 feet away to avoid the shine. From my normal working position there's a very visible shine over the bottom part of the screen which also causes all solid colors to look like gradients. I much rather prefer the S-PVA panels of my Eizo monitor. The only way I have found to counteract this is to tilt the monitor backwards so I look straight on it, but this feels wrong, I like to have my monitors vertical.
I hate the extreme time it takes this monitor to warm up. The 3007WFP I have at work is full on almost instantly. My U3011 takes at least 10-20 minutes to get to full brightness which means I have to start out at 70-80% brightness and then continuously turn down the brightness as the monitor warms up. I now have it at 0-10% brightness like "everyone" else after the warm up period.
And I still find it very straining on the eyes even though I sit in front of my 3007WFP at work for 8-10 hours every day with no issues whatsoever. I have no clue what difference between these two models causes this problem for me.
Is your EIZO also wide gamut running in sRGB mode, and if so, how does it compare to the U3011? I'm interested in possibly getting a U3011 down the road, but Dell has me a little spooked from my experiences with the 2408WFP.
I ended up with my current EIZO SX2461W (PVA panel) after going through two wide gamut Dell 2408WFPs that had an unacceptable (by my standards) sRGB mode and way too saturated colors otherwise in any other mode or setting.The EIZO is also a wide gamut LCD, but the sRGB setting looks fantastic.
The reason I ask specifically of another EIZO owner is because I know you know what a good screen looks like. Not to disparage anyone else's opinions, but I don't know what your frame of reference is.
As far as wide gamut vs. native sRGB goes, I don't think that is really the question. I think the real question is how good is the sRGB emulation on the particular wide gamut display you want to buy, unless, of course, you primarily use color managed apps (I do not).
My Eizo is this one: http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007/review-eizo-s2431w.html
I've used two of them at home for quite some time and they were both identical and in my mind some of the best monitors I've had. It's not wide gamut @ 94% sRGB coverage, but on the Dell I only use the sRGB mode anyway and don't really see a need for wide gamut unless I start working with print.
I use the custom mode on my Eizo. It looks the same as the included sRGB mode, but it allows for more customization, obviously.
I use the sRGB mode on the U3011, but I do have 5% digital vibrance (which saturates the colors) turned on in the Nvidia Control Panel because without it I feel the colors are too washed out.
Colorwise the Eizo and the Dell looks fairly similar, but there really is no comparison in image quality as far as I'm concerned. With the sparkle effect and shine that comes from the IPS panel the Dell will never look as good as the Eizo in my mind.
I've used two of them at home for quite some time and they were both identical and in my mind some of the best monitors I've had. It's not wide gamut @ 94% sRGB coverage, but on the Dell I only use the sRGB mode anyway and don't really see a need for wide gamut unless I start working with print.
I use the custom mode on my Eizo. It looks the same as the included sRGB mode, but it allows for more customization, obviously.
I use the sRGB mode on the U3011, but I do have 5% digital vibrance (which saturates the colors) turned on in the Nvidia Control Panel because without it I feel the colors are too washed out.
Colorwise the Eizo and the Dell looks fairly similar, but there really is no comparison in image quality as far as I'm concerned. With the sparkle effect and shine that comes from the IPS panel the Dell will never look as good as the Eizo in my mind.
Zephalephelah
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How many of you are professional LCD reviewers?
nitromullet
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Thanks for the response, Twiik. That's useful info.