You're kidding. We switched to Office XP three years ago ( from Office 98. This was before my time here ), and I'm still hearing complaints about it.
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Windows 7 - The undisputed king... and it ain't even finished yet :)
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requiemnoise
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I was a technical leader for few million dollar rollout for a large pharmaceutical in the late 90s. When we were replacing Windows 3.1 and 95 with NT4. Everyone was constantly harassing me when they are going to get their new PC. I have to tell someone four times a day, they have to ask the Primary Project Leader or IT director for that information.
When 2000 got rolled out to get rid of NT4 system for a project I did in the early 2000 for laptop users who got tired of blue screen of death of non-plug and play NT4 system, you don't know how annoying the market team got. Some of them even got my private cell phone number. I was a consultant. You don't know how annoying it will get.
People hate their old computers, because users' Windows system never really get properly scrubbed until they get reinstalled.
3.1 to Windows 95 was Bitchfest Central.
requiemnoise
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TechieSooner
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Call me lucky but either my users get used to advances and change or ... ??? I have yet to find the alternative because I haven't had to yet.
Everything in the office requires quite a bit of computer work. Yes, when you change something, they do gripe. But when they realize I'm not moving on my position they'll usually quiet down and move on.
Companies have been doing that forever. XP was probably the only variation of Windows that was around long enough to where all companies got on that single OS.
Oh I'll agree about Office. We had people complain about upgrading 2003 to 2007, not because they didn't like the way it looked, but because everyone's so insanely busy working to bother figuring out how to use the new interface.
Our company CEO basically told them quitch'er bitchin'
But nobody complained about XP Pro and Vista. They're both great operating systems, but I employ Citrix to employees and clients to access our app server and database, so they spend 99% of the time with their remote app on full screen. Nobody notices the underlying operating systems. lol
Yeah I have to deal with that too. I'll always respond with "talk to the boss".
I control all aspects of company technology, but the boss tells me who gets what laptops, printers, broadband cards, etc.
I wish I had that kind of power, but I'm stuck in a company where sales staff and collections are king and support staff (IT) gets the short end of the stick. It's usually they're not moving on their position and I have to quiet down and move on...unless I can pull the Sarbanes-Oxley, OTS commission, or SOX audit card.
You have no idea how bad it is. I'm just glad I live where I do (DC area) and won't have a problem finding another job, just leaving everything I've worked on the last 4 years would suck (pride thing lol) and I live only 5 minutes from where I work.
Because simms are painful.
don't forget non plug and play ISA!!!
Does this mean, no more IRQ jumper settings?!?!??! *GASP*
If the PC is still under warranty (which are rarely longer than 3 years) then it should have enough RAM already. If it doesn't have enough RAM then it is old enough it probably needs to be replaced soon anyway. Just stick to your regular replacement schedule and make sure the new PC's have the new OS.
Yes it was. But 95 to 98 was a lot better, 98 to 2000 was better than that, and 2000 to XP involved absolutely no bitching at all....
Users in the corporate world are now USED to changing OS's on a regular basis. They don't complain nearly as much as they used to, and things will continue to get better in this regard.
You are assuming initial spec of machine was good AND that at the end of the lease period they go and upgrade EVERY machine...
about 5years ago IT did a massive uk sitewide (in excess of 3000 in the UK) replacement of the machines.
Lease ran out. For the vast majority of ppl the machines were still more then good enough - emailers and report writers. There were a few that needed higher spec machines and each one was delt with on a person by person basis
Now its come to the point where IT want to standadies on Vista so all machines need to be upgraded so yet again offices are going to be distrupted while IT logistics ship out 10's of PC's at a time to office sections and distrupt ppls work to change a load of machines at once...
it aint as easy as you think to just change all machines
BloodyIron
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YO JOE!
I dunno about undisputed, but I definately have wet myself waiting for my torrent to finish...
Will try when I get home.
I dunno about undisputed, but I definately have wet myself waiting for my torrent to finish...
Will try when I get home.
TechieSooner
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Who said anything about swapping them all out overnight?
I think you're trying to create an argument where there's not one.
I'm curious about this as well. I use Leopard as my main OS, but would love to beta test Windows 7 and submit bugs. Gotta admit I'm pretty excited about Win7.
requiemnoise
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Most home upgrades usually move that fast, but In a corporate environment, they drive the OS to ground until they are forced to upgrade.
My experience always has been DOS 5/6/6.22 or IBM PC-DOS to Win 3.1 or Win3.11. Win3.1 and 95, 98 to NT4. NT4 to 2000/XP. Also, there is an issue with a write off with the accounting. You have to check with the tax code to see when a PC can be fully written off. Not every office purchases are within the 1st year.
oscrogo said:
I really didn't wanted to bring this up, but it is post y2k all over again.
lol... Why would you assume things will always be smooth in the PC world? When things get stable, the market brings on the new technology to break everything! I guess that is why MS is a big part of our food chain. The life always needs a bad guy to survive. I don't wish Microsoft to go away. I wish they are less powerful.
RESTfulADI
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anyone been able to get media sharing to 360 working? i can stream video using Tversity but then i lose SSDP Discovery service and UPnP host with it, forwarding ports manually is a bitch.
RESTfulADI
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yes. there is no difference between the torrent iso and the msdn release, plus a general beta goes live tomorrow anyway.
About the article, I would like to see just how much Win 7 won by as I am sure others would like to as well.
It is a moot point if something took 87 seconds long, but Win7 managed to do it in 86. Big fuggin' deal, but if it managed to pull it off in 80 seconds...well, now we talking.
When I first read this post I said "Are you kidding me?", but then I realized you must be refering about at work because around here back in the day, if you were a early adopter of Windows XP, you were stupid. XP was junk, it was bloated, had a dumb theme, etc. W2K was for the "serious" enthusiast and XP was for the mis-informed.
LOL @ how things stay the same.
It is a moot point if something took 87 seconds long, but Win7 managed to do it in 86. Big fuggin' deal, but if it managed to pull it off in 80 seconds...well, now we talking.
When I first read this post I said "Are you kidding me?", but then I realized you must be refering about at work because around here back in the day, if you were a early adopter of Windows XP, you were stupid. XP was junk, it was bloated, had a dumb theme, etc. W2K was for the "serious" enthusiast and XP was for the mis-informed.
LOL @ how things stay the same.
Good. So the Product Key wouldn't matter? or how would that go?
Yeah, Vista is like Deja Vu, all over again.
RESTfulADI
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i haven't really thought about it lol, u get 30 days unactivated and there's a hack for like 3 more months after that but if they start handing out legit keys tomorrow for the general release I guess I'll sign up and just enter it into my current installation.
requiemnoise
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These were requirements announced by Microsoft. We all know we need to least double or triple their requirements.
XP pro box says,
1.PC with 300 megahertz or higher processor clock speed recommended; 233 MHz minimum required (single or dual processor system);* Intel Pentium/Celeron family, or AMD K6/Athlon/Duron family, or compatible processor recommended
2.128 megabytes (MB) of RAM or higher recommended (64 MB minimum supported; may limit performance and some features)
3.1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available hard disk space*
4. Super VGA (800 x 600) or higher-resolution video adapter and monitor
5. CD-ROM or DVD drive
Difference of 2000 and XP memory requirement was less than 32megs
MS announced for Windows 7
* 1GHz processor (32- or 64-bit)
* 1GB of main memory
* 16GB of available disk space
* Support for DX9 graphics with 128MB of memory (for the Aero interface)
* A DVD-R/W drive
Difference of XP and Windows 7 memory requirement is 872 megs.
For home users, who cares...
Upgrade if you like if the new user interface justify a buying a new PC. People got money. PC is cheaper than ever. For corporations that have to buy 500 to 10,000 PCs, not including army of consultants of various billable hours from $40/hr to $150/hr, it is a no brainier decision to wait and upgrade later.
This isn't a bitching contest. This is about spending close to $3000 dollars per person (hardware, labor, contracts, extra apps). Something to think about. You will no longer able to purchase a XP machine at your local store starting 02/2009. Vista will be only choice for a while.
It's $1,100 where I work for a new machine. OS, Office, Oracle, etc and all the good stuff that goes along with getting a PC ordered. Not much labor to it with active directory... just log in on the new machine and let some scripts do the work.
Monitor not included.
You going to say the same thing about Windows 8? Microsoft is back to it's historic cycle of a new OS ~2-3yrs. Windows XP was a fluke.
requiemnoise
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Dude... Do yo assume companies just dump a PC at user's desk?
Training and army of consultants will cost twice more than the PC. $1100? DAMN expensive for the hardware. I could call a Dell or HP rep and demand a discount.
Uh no. It's calling up the help desk and ordering a new PC. Our location gets billed for $1,100 and the PC is shipped directly from our depot to the user with our company's image on it. The user logs on to it, and his/her profile is moved automatically to that PC.
Laptops are a different story.. depending on if you are an engineer or not, they get up to around 10 grand with all the accesories.
RESTfulADI
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i found a potential deal breaker on the beta today. COD4's punkbuster kicks me almost immediately after joining a server with error "unknown windows api function." I looked into it and apparently the punkbuster files in COD4 don't like windows 7 and a rep from them said they have no plans on supporting the beta any time soon.
so if you need your Duty 4 stay away from W7 beta, but World at War and Crysis and other PB games apparently work fine. They just had to make the best PB game incompatible...
so if you need your Duty 4 stay away from W7 beta, but World at War and Crysis and other PB games apparently work fine. They just had to make the best PB game incompatible...
requiemnoise
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Sorry man... migration doesn't work like that for larger companies. Maybe, small companies.
How about a company that has 85,000 employees spread throughout North America in Canada and the US along with Europe, Asia, and Australia?
Joe Average
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Punkbuster is one of the most foul evil despicable pieces of software ever created - and it doesn't work worth shit. I wish companies would tell Even Balance to go fuck themselves and stop using it. BLAH.
requiemnoise
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So your company just drop the PC with all new apps on an average user's desk and say, "have a nice day?"
A training firm who will train your entire company users will charge least 0.6 million for your size. Trainers bill out more than some Network Architects. Not to mention, cost of loss work, user taking a basic one hour class, hiring a dedicated full-time PC buyer middle man to handle 85,000 units, tons of recruiting and contracting firms to hire all these people who shave up to 55% of their salary, and the cost will keep on adding up. Also, have to consider storage upgrade for all the servers for backups. That might lead to server upgrades too. You will also need a labor firm to move all these PCs to various storages you might not have, truck rental, etc. Everything adds up. Last thing you want is $100/hr consultant to move PC back and forth within storage centers. There are tons of cost involved.
dragontales
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We have been using XP pro for quite a few years now. There has been literally zero discussion within the IT staff and manager about upgrading to Vista. Let's just wait and see what this Windows 7 is all about.
And about our users...
They bitch whenever there is something new or just "different". That's what they do and I'm used to it. It's expected with an IT job. Most folks are willing to learn and are really nice about it when they ask for help. I enjoy helping them. Then there are those that always ask or actually demand for help with a fricking attitude. I can't stand those.
And about our users...
They bitch whenever there is something new or just "different". That's what they do and I'm used to it. It's expected with an IT job. Most folks are willing to learn and are really nice about it when they ask for help. I enjoy helping them. Then there are those that always ask or actually demand for help with a fricking attitude. I can't stand those.
So, what happens to corporations with tens of thousands of machines? Did they ever think that XP would last this long? And are they planning on using XP forever?
If you could go back in time when they were complaining about the migration from 2000 to XP... you could say "Don't worry, XP is fine... you're gonna be using it for close to a decade!"
If you could go back in time when they were complaining about the migration from 2000 to XP... you could say "Don't worry, XP is fine... you're gonna be using it for close to a decade!"
requiemnoise
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I agree, but it isn't a good idea to spend few millions for upgrades that has very LOW ROI (Return On Investment).
Luckily for them, they were able to buy XP machines during a 7 year span. And if you trained someone to use XP, that training was good for 7 years. What happens when XP is no longer available? There will be a point when they need new machines, but all that is available is Vista or Windows 7.
Or, will companies continue to use XP for the foreseeable future? Can they install a site-licensed copy of XP on all new machines? Or is Microsoft forbidding companies to install XP after a certain date?
requiemnoise
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Yes, until the security patches run out. April,2014. Most migrations will take place around 2012.
I think we are talking about something different. My bad.
Yes, we wen't through exactly what you are talking about, we rolled out a brand new accounting package and had been working on it for several years in house along with consultants. The training was all done by in house employees that were designated trainers that traveled from location to location. I have no idea how much it cost for develpment and training, but it was expensive as anything that is worth it is.
On that rollout, there were not too many workstation replacements that were needed, The package is pretty light on the system and more sensitive to the network than the hardware it runs on.
But if someone needed a new PC tomorrow, it's $1,100, zero training. If the person is a new hire, we don't have trainers, we have co-workers that teach what is needed. There are help documents available on our intranet site that pretty much cover everything, along with manuals and step by step instructions for any task imaginable.