Toshiba Ends Format War

I would rather pay the $40. I would rather a quality product that I own, with a physical copy. Or, I'd rather download movies via iTunes, although I really would like 1080p quality movies.
 
EQTakeOffense said:
I would rather pay the $40. I would rather a quality product that I own, with a physical copy. Or, I'd rather download movies via iTunes, although I really would like 1080p quality movies.
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So you would pay outrageously high prices? You sir, are the cancer that killed good movie prices.
 
soulman901 said:
Movies that cost $24 will go up in price. They'll re-release them to take advantage of having no competition. This new price will be $34-40 depending on the movie. I call the Markup the HD-Tax, No HD-DVD means they can do what they want now instead of having to compete.
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Why can't people understand supply and demand. If it's too expensive then they will lower the price. If people are willing to buy at the higher price, then why lower the price? The company is out to make money, not to please people for no reason. If it is too expensive then blame the rich people that continue to buy and keep it expensive.
 
L33t Masta said:
So you would pay outrageously high prices? You sir, are the cancer that killed good movie prices.
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Lol, ironically I don't buy movies. The last movie I bought was at Christmas time. I have no money to buy movies with, but if I had $40, I'd rather pay $40 then pirate the movie.
 
Some of you guys need to take Economics 101.....they aren't going to jack up the prices simply because of a format win.....if it is too expensive no one is going to buy.....simple as that. I, for one, will resort to not buying Blu-Rays, but renting.
 
L33t Masta said:
So you would pay outrageously high prices? You sir, are the cancer that killed good movie prices.
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Please stop posting in this thread. For one, you are just using illogical explanations to push against Blu-ray, second you are just babbling about things you obviously do not understand or have not learned in school. Take some time and read up on this topic, learn a little about economics and business and then return with some logical debates against Blu-ray.
 


What you are suggesting is illegal and people I know will not do this because it is wrong, both legally and morally. Maybe you do not feel this, but the average consumer does not know how to "pirate" a movie or music in the first place so they will either buy if nothing else is there or wait until something cheaper presents itself.
 


Its a pretty bold claim to suggest that the average person knows how to copy a dvd. Have you worked help desk? I think you get the impression that most people know how to burn a dvd because of the people on this forum, but I tend to disagree. I also don't think you know too much, because I'm sure if you did you would realize it is pretty easy to obtain blue ray quality movies.
 


First of all, the average person does not know how to pirate a movie. Perhapes the average computer user, but not the average American. Your logic assumes the vast majority of Americans own a DVD burner housed in a computer, and know how to pirate a movie. The most resent data (from 2003) says that 62% of Americans have at least one computer and rougly 55% have intenet access. Even the most recent data suggests roughly 71% of Americans have internet which would suggest that roughly 75% of Americas have a computer. So, the the majority of Americans have a computer. Now, lets look at DVD players. It appears that during this time DVD players doubled their market penetration. Now, lets look at [url="http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES010807.htm"]DVD media sales. DVD media sales roughly doubled in revenue as well from 2002 - 2006.

So, lets think about this: more Americans have computers, but at the same time are spending more on DVD media and DVD players. This goes directly against your logic.
 
If people are actually seeing $35 prices at best buy, dont' buy there. We also have competition among Retailers. Go to Amazon. I was just browsing their prices an almost nothing is over $28 (single movie), lots lower. Stargate is $14, Terminator2 is $14. But of all the singles I saw, the cieling seems to be $28, even the new Blade runner 5 disk set was $28. (something I want).

This is completely in Line with DVD at the start. Anyone who thinks the prices are trending up from here is a completely clueless idiot. It is hard to imagine anyone that clueless, they are more than likely just trying to stir something.

Market forces are operating normally and you get in when it reaches your price point. For me that is around $200 player and $20 movies, though I may think about a PS3 for more than that.

Anyway glad it is over. We will all have to find something new to argue about now.
 
So funny to see the anti-Sony trolling posts. Keep on making up that HD-DVD was better, Sony bought the win, cry and complaining, claiming to not buy any movie, Sony wiill jack up the prices, blah blah blah. Absolutely hilarious. :D
 
theDreamer said:
Where are you people getting this information, and have none of you taken a basic economics or business class ever?
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soulman901 said:
Becuase I can go to the store anytime look at what Sony sells their crap for and see what other people sell their crap for. Sony always has a Markup of about 10-30% for practically the same device.
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Not only that...but the simple FACT that Sony *completely* sets the pricing/profit ratio for the seller(s).

EG: When I was in the music industry...*most* items that were sold (retail) were an A or B "mark." Translated: typically 40% to 50% profit rate for the business selling the manufacter's 'name brand' goods. Very few (less than 4-5 brands) that our million-dollar a year (not some 'mom-n-pop' store) were in the C or D range (25% to 40% profit).

Now ANY Sony items that we sold, had *required* pricing schemes, that were *by standard contract* to be followed, else you risk losing your "dealer" status. What was the mark on those you might ask? **15%** profit for the "dealer." EIGHTY-FIVE percent (85%) profit straight to Sony.

My point being (to those arguing the against the "essence" in the logic of some of the people's stances here) is that, if you think for a second, that Sony would not attempt the same manner of price fixing/'strategic coersion' upon their retail channel partners, you are *seriously* mistaken!

Now, when you apply *Sony's* corporate mentality to the equation...how could anyone think that prices will be comparable, in the BR disc arena, without competition, when we have a measurable track record to see and compare to when they DO have competition. Yet, Sony still manages to uphold their 85% command of profits in those arena's.

At those profit margins, DAMN SKIPPY they have the 'wieght' to throw around, and effect the marketplace. Whether some people are aware OR choose to see it or not. You better believe it exists.
 
Now, when you apply *Sony's* corporate mentality to the equation...how could anyone think that prices will be comparable, in the BR disc arena, without competition, when we have a measurable track record to see and compare to when they DO have competition. Yet, Sony still manages to uphold their 85% command of profits in those arena's.
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Bluray disc prices are not set by Sony. Movie prices are net set by Sony (unless of course it is a movie made by Sony).
 
You know, all this bickering about high Blu-ray prices when it's less than two years into the game are getting quite tiring.

Almost 10 years ago my family went out and bought us a DVD player and paid nearly $500 for it. We also bought two movies for it as well, Lethal Weapon 4 and some other moive I can't remember the name of. Those were nearly $40. Fast forward to today and there's a new format fighting for our attention just like DVD was ten years ago. Players and movies are just as expensive (cheaper if you account for inflation) as they were back then. Get over it, move on.

As far as downloadable content goes, I'd much rather run up the block to Movie Gallery, Hastings, or Blockbuster to rent a movie when we spontaneously decide to want a new release one Friday night than have to schedule it for next week when the movie finally finishes downloading on our 3mbps link. Sorry, but 12-15mbps connections are not becoming mainstream except in the most heavily populated areas. Even then ISP are starting to throttle you when you've exceeded their secret magic number of gigabytes downloaded. It'd suck to have downloaded 4 movives at 10-20GB's a pop then find out the 5 is going to take 6 weeks because you've been cut back to 500kbps. Physical media is here to stay for at least the next decade.
 


Between this thread and the one in GenGaming... how has this guy not earned a vacation? :confused:
 


I wouldn't spend my bandwidth/time burning... but I guarentee you that I damned sure don't spend the 'insane' amount of $15-$20 on a damned dvd movie, just because it's a new release, or another "re-release" from a prior format. *sigh*

One thing studio's have dropped to the sidelines (simply because they cannot control it) is the sales of 'second-hand' dvd's. Because there's no viable way to regulate it, and further, the people would not stand for it (at least in the U.S.A.). They're not going to pick a battle they knowingly cannot win. So they pick 'piracy'. In my opinion, second-hand sales are the single largest factor in what's helped to DROP the prices of cd's and dvds in the retail channels. Again, JMO. =p

Why should I pay even $12 to $15 for a movie tossed onto a piece of plastic for a process that costs the channel maybe $2 to produce and distribute? If their pricing was more within reason (again, the questions applied to the whole 'lack of competition' argument arising now on BD) then it would be more widely adopted and faster to boot. Higher volume at an equal profit to those in power.... but that's not good enough for Sony. They not only have HUGE power, sales, influence, but they also....anyways, I digress.

Sell fewer and make the same profit = good business sense. ...It all boils down to your own personal outlook (and whom you cater to in that business) as to how you approach it all (both as a consumer, and a business owner).
Which is why you have the dissenting ranks evident here. Just all boils down to outlooks! ;)
 
L33t Masta said:
My point is perfectly logical. The average person knows how to pirate DVDs.
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Actually... the average person cant even figure out how to enable a NIC on a laptop.
Nevermind the fact that a Charter 'installation tech' "forgot" to check and see if it was enabled...so the installation could be completed :rolleyes:

Now had you said the average geek knows how... :p
 
L33t Masta has earned himself a vacation and a thread closure.

Everyone say, "Thank You" to L33t Masta.
 
Okay, I cleaned up the thread. Try to play nice now, will ya?
 
EQTakeOffense said:
Yeah you will.
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Probably not as quickly as you would if HD-DVD was still around. Anyone that thinks BD player prices would have dropped as quickly as they have without HD-DVD around is kidding themselves. I doubt there would have been all the BOGOs, and there definitely wouldnt have been all the free movie deals. Sony doesn't (completely) control movie pricing, but they sure as hell can have a big influence on it.

Obviously a lot of people have been waiting for a winner before purchasing. If HD-DVD would have won I think we would start seeing mass adoption by Joe 6-pack, due to cheap player prices. I don't think 300 or 400 dollar player prices are going to result in mass adoption. Which is bad for our wallets.
 
Nicolaskl said:
Probably not as quickly as you would if HD-DVD was still around. Anyone that thinks BD player prices would have dropped as quickly as they have without HD-DVD around is kidding themselves. I doubt there would have been all the BOGOs, and there definitely wouldnt have been all the free movie deals. Sony doesn't (completely) control movie pricing, but they sure as hell can have a big influence on it.

Obviously a lot of people have been waiting for a winner before purchasing. If HD-DVD would have won I think we would start seeing mass adoption by Joe 6-pack, due to cheap player prices. I don't think 300 or 400 dollar player prices are going to result in mass adoption. Which is bad for our wallets.
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I agree with you on the time. It will be longer before we see Bluray players drop in price, but that doesn't mean we wont. Sony could set an industry trend with their movie pricing, but, it would only be a trend.

I don't know. Adoption rates and timing of cost reductions are not something that's easily predictable. I agree with you though for the most part.
 
You guys are talking like Sony is the only company that makes Bluray players. Component costs are going to go down. Manufacturing costs are going to go down. Other manufacturers are going to get into making players. That means that the cost of the Bluray players are going to go down.

Movies are the same way. The costs are high now because there is not the manufacturing capacity to produce them at the same level as DVD's. Once that ramps up, cost should go down as well.
 
Tim said:
You guys are talking like Sony is the only company that makes Bluray players. Component costs are going to go down. Manufacturing costs are going to go down. Other manufacturers are going to get into making players. That means that the cost of the Bluray players are going to go down.

Movies are the same way. The costs are high now because there is not the manufacturing capacity to produce them at the same level as DVD's. Once that ramps up, cost should go down as well.
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You mean like Sharp, Samsung, Pioneer, etc which are the same price or more????
 
Speaking of component costs, one good thing about this being over with is that all the supply of blue laser diodes being earmarked for HD DVD players are now going to be freed up for Bluray players.
 
nicepun said:
You mean like Sharp, Samsung, Pioneer, etc which are the same price or more????
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No, I'm talking more along the lines of the el cheapo manufacturers, like Durabrand and Mintek or some crap. Personally I would never buy the product, but cheap guy next door might.
 
Tim said:
No, I'm talking more along the lines of the el cheapo manufacturers, like Durabrand and Mintek or some crap. Personally I would never buy the product, but cheap guy next door might.
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Don't forget Emerson *shudder* :D
 
hdvdonetz0ay1.jpg
 
I mean, I know there have been other companies doing Blu-Ray from day one, but let's be honest: it's Sony's baby and we have the DNA tests to prove it. When the writing was on the wall that HD-DVD was going to lose the format war, I actually looked at getting a Blu-Ray player for my HDTV...and even then (this was only a month ago actually) the PS3 was STILL the best Blu-Ray player by far, because it's the only one that you can actually freaking update to work with newer Profiles. I totally agree with Toshiba when they say that HD-DVD was a finished spec, whereas Blu-Ray basically came out just to be out, and they totally shafted their early adopters by coming up with this "evolving Profile" BS. Even Sony's $700+ standalone Blu-Ray players, which I would have actually preferred to owning a PS3, look crippled compared to the PS3.
 
Tim said:
You guys are talking like Sony is the only company that makes Bluray players. Component costs are going to go down. Manufacturing costs are going to go down. Other manufacturers are going to get into making players. That means that the cost of the Bluray players are going to go down.

Movies are the same way. The costs are high now because there is not the manufacturing capacity to produce them at the same level as DVD's. Once that ramps up, cost should go down as well.
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Actually you pinpointed the real reason HD DVD failed. Nobody except Toshiba wanted to manufacture the units with the possible exception of Onkyo, but those were rebranded Toshiba units from what I saw of them.

BR on the other hand has tons of manufacture’s support. That alone translates into more unit sales which obviously translates into more software sales. I have argued this point over and over again and people simply don’t want to hear the truth.

There is another truth out there as well such as the big Denon standard DVD player at $1200.00 was still selling quite nicely all during this so-called format war as were the higher end Sony’s, Pioneers and tons of others. Not everyone wants cheap, some people want quality in products they buy.

In all my years of experience in the business there have always been less expensive alternatives to more expensive products and a customer purchase based on sound quality or picture quality rarely represents a bigger EPenis purchase.

Many of the arguments being made in here are as stupid as the cable argument or the digital is digital no matter how the signal gets there argument. That whole argument is like saying a $99.99 receiver is just as good as a $500.00 receiver.

As a consumer buy what you can afford but a smart and informed consumer doesn’t make a buying decision based on price alone.

RE your LG DVD player, I agree, in that product line they build crap and always have. The other side of that are products such as their computer monitors and cell phones. LG cell phones are damn hard to beat;)
 
finalgt said:
I mean, I know there have been other companies doing Blu-Ray from day one, but let's be honest: it's Sony's baby and we have the DNA tests to prove it. When the writing was on the wall that HD-DVD was going to lose the format war, I actually looked at getting a Blu-Ray player for my HDTV...and even then (this was only a month ago actually) the PS3 was STILL the best Blu-Ray player by far, because it's the only one that you can actually freaking update to work with newer Profiles. I totally agree with Toshiba when they say that HD-DVD was a finished spec, whereas Blu-Ray basically came out just to be out, and they totally shafted their early adopters by coming up with this "evolving Profile" BS. Even Sony's $700+ standalone Blu-Ray players, which I would have actually preferred to owning a PS3, look crippled compared to the PS3.
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First, picture wise the PS-3 doesn’t hold a candle to one of the stand alone players, I’ve had them side by side, and it’s really a big difference.

Second, apparently you have never taken the time to go to Sony’s firmware site. If you are not competent enough do download the file and burn your own upgrade CD Sony will send you one for free. Since the entire software system lives on DSP chips the PS-3 and all the stand alone players can be upgraded to virtually any level needed up to and including replacing the entire OS.

Try facts in your next post, please.:)
 
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