Joe Six Pack
Limp Gawd
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Why should new products be cheaper? The PS3 isnt cheaper then PS2 also how bout that XBOX 360 beeing cheaper then the XBOX?
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Toshiba Ends Format War
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
Why should new products be cheaper? The PS3 isnt cheaper then PS2 also how bout that XBOX 360 beeing cheaper then the XBOX?
So, let's sum this up in a few words. Toshiba lost because they failed to promote the format. I never once saw a commercial or an in-store display for HD-DVD. It was clear very early which was going to win.
Glad I bought a dual format player. I am sick of people who whine because they only bought one format. Those are the only losers.
For the HD-DVDs I own, I will be ripping them to the hard drive and burning them to blu format when the media comes down in price. Blu as an alternative storage format? hah! $20/disc, no way... And I wouldn't be surprised if Sony changes the format just enough so all these blu blank discs won't play in newer profile players. Rootkit anybody?
And Sony is known for price fixing. It will be several years before I can afford Blu movies. My price point is $10, maybe $15 for a movie I've already seen and will watch several times. Upscaled DVDs FTW!
Glad I bought a dual format player. I am sick of people who whine because they only bought one format. Those are the only losers.
For the HD-DVDs I own, I will be ripping them to the hard drive and burning them to blu format when the media comes down in price. Blu as an alternative storage format? hah! $20/disc, no way... And I wouldn't be surprised if Sony changes the format just enough so all these blu blank discs won't play in newer profile players. Rootkit anybody?
And Sony is known for price fixing. It will be several years before I can afford Blu movies. My price point is $10, maybe $15 for a movie I've already seen and will watch several times. Upscaled DVDs FTW!
Deviationer
[H]ard|Gawd
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I have the combo HD-DVD/Blu-ray reader drive on my HTPC so I never cared which format won. Now it's time to buy a bunch of really cheap HD-DVD movies. I'd rather buy them cheap then have to pay double for the double dip in blu-ray.
All you said was give me an explanation of a newer device, media or product, that was cheaper, and I did that. Stop asking overly simple questions if you are looking for a specific answer. I also know that the 8800GT was cheaper than the GTS's it replaced. You really should just admit you had a bad argument...
Oh well, I'm still watching xvid movies on my 720p Plasma screen and have yet to make the upgrade to DVD yet. So Blu-Ray "won". Oh well, digital downloads are the way to go anyway.
GlimmerMan
Gawd
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This is a very simplistic view that shows no understanding of how the market works. New technology is never cheaper in the beginning. There is R&D cost, and production probably isn't as efficient as it can be. And the market is relatively small. All this means new products are expensive. As time passes, R&D costs decreases, production gets more efficient, and the market gets bigger. All this drives prices lower, pass the cost of previous generation products.
Great post. This really sums up all the sour grapes whining I've been hearing over the last couple of weeks. HD-DVD may not have won, but there's no reason to spread FUD about Blu-ray. Digital downloads won't be taking their place anytime soon, so let's try and unify behind a Hi-Def format. This will help drive down costs and create better standards more than anything else.
IE... go buy a PS3!
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let the price gouging begin .........?
I sure hope not
ehhh the hardware side is still good with the PS3. As far as the movies go hopefully the fear if digitally distributed content will prevent stupid high prices.
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HD DVD, while having lost this war, will fade into obscurity, but probably won't die entirely.
Remember the VHS vs Beta wars of the earlier VCR's? The Beta format was, arguably, the better one, yet the fact remains, that VHS won out. That didn't mean that Beta dried up overnight; if anything there were quite a few folks using it for camcorders, etc.
HD DVD will still have its place somewhere.
Remember the VHS vs Beta wars of the earlier VCR's? The Beta format was, arguably, the better one, yet the fact remains, that VHS won out. That didn't mean that Beta dried up overnight; if anything there were quite a few folks using it for camcorders, etc.
HD DVD will still have its place somewhere.
Ouch. I must say you spreading FUD. It's happening in my city right now, and spreading like wildfire. It's called AT&T U-Verse, which is FOiS (vDSL). 32mb download - not your 50mb+ number you came up with though. "Take my download to a friends house and watch it (impossible)"? LOL, what do you mean impossible? Unplug my IPTV box, take it over to their house and plug it in - about the size of a laptop, and smaller than a game console.
Ocellaris
Fully [H]
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Totally agree with Snowdog on all his points. With more and more ISPs toying with the idea of download limits, and the speeds needed to stream HD content, what makes anyone think that downloadable HD is the way to go?
Heck, I was using more bandwidth more bandwidth and had a faster connection 5 years ago than I am able to get now. I am just waiting for the next round of speed nerfing to come through my area and drop me down again
Heck, I was using more bandwidth more bandwidth and had a faster connection 5 years ago than I am able to get now. I am just waiting for the next round of speed nerfing to come through my area and drop me down again
Ocellaris
Fully [H]
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"more bandwidth more bandwidth" typo in my last post, ack
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Ouch. I must say you spreading FUD. It's happening in my city right now, and spreading like wildfire. It's called AT&T U-Verse, which is FOiS (vDSL). 32mb download - not your 50mb+ number you came up with though. "Take my download to a friends house and watch it (impossible)"? LOL, what do you mean impossible? Unplug my IPTV box, take it over to their house and plug it in - about the size of a laptop, and smaller than a game console.
For rental that's all well and good, but I'm a physical ownership kind of guy and want a disc if I am buying to own. Glad you are lucky enough to live in a FIOS city, Atlanta isn't one of them.
HardOCP News
[H] News
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It should have said "Studios End Format War".
In the end, the studios threw their weight behind Sony and that was the killer. No studios, no movies. No movies, no sales. Etc. etc. etc.
Smart man here. This is a computer enthusiast forum. Anyone with a decently powerful computer that is complaining about the format war at all has lost their mind.
This point actually made me lol because it's so true.
Lets not forget HDMI as well.
Wikipedia's HDMI Article said:
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http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&&article_ID=12118
Universal goes Blu officially.
Universal goes Blu officially.
i feel your pain, in waiting that is. but we all know as time goes buy things will get better.
Google "AT&T U-Verse picture quality"
These services are a step down from broadcast HD, which is itself a step down from Disk based HD. There are a few marginal quality "HD" download services, but they are nowhere near reaching the quality or the masses.
I see no reason why they can't cooperatively exist even if they were great. Blu-ray will not be destroyed by digital downloads.
Oh and I would much rather bring a disk, than tear out my set-top box and bring it over. "Sorry Honey I told Fred he could watch this movie at Freds, I have to bring the set top box..." Yeah that will work well. Strange that you guys are worried about DRM on the disks, when that is total freedom compared to downloads locked to one household.
Why does anyone rent a DVD movie for $5 for two days of viewing?
Bring on the HD-DVD firesales, papa needs some $8 HD-DVD luving.
SamuraiInBlack
Supreme [H]ardness
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Even if Blu-Ray has won, I don't think it will seriously take off until a finalized format comes out. Nobody wants to buy a $400+ BD player and then down the road they find out they're screwed because some movies they want to see are in an updated format that their player can't handle. Sure the simple answer is buy a PS3 - but what the hell is the point of that if the other companies can't make a firmware update possible on their BD players? What if I don't want a PS3? What if I want a Samsung or an LG player? What if I was one of those people who bought the HD/BD combo players? Now I'm screwed in both directions?
Till that gets addressed I think DVD won't be phased out so easily.
Till that gets addressed I think DVD won't be phased out so easily.
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Ouch. I must say you spreading FUD. It's happening in my city right now, and spreading like wildfire. It's called AT&T U-Verse, which is FOiS (vDSL). 32mb download - not your 50mb+ number you came up with though. "Take my download to a friends house and watch it (impossible)"? LOL, what do you mean impossible? Unplug my IPTV box, take it over to their house and plug it in - about the size of a laptop, and smaller than a game console.
He gave the best explanation yet. Talk about spreading FUD.
BTW, call me when the whole country has FIOS available to me and we can all get HD movies instantly in the next 5 years.
Its too far off to have anything but minimal impact on disc sales.
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No, I wanted sony to burn
mandatory ethernet port? oh and actually making firmware updates!
you better go tell that to all the people in that samsung lawsuit... i guess they were just all wrong
they look ok unless your a videophile, which in that case you have enough money to blow on sony garbage anyway
how can you say sony is not BR? its basically sony with a few other companies that have maybe one product... the CD was mostly philips and then sony changed it just slightly at the end to screw over philips... S/PDIF is a terrible interface honestly, it has no jitter reduction and its basically just PCM over optical/coaxial...
and the PS/2 was definately not why DVD took off, there were cheaper DVD players at the time...
Great post. This really sums up all the sour grapes whining I've been hearing over the last couple of weeks. HD-DVD may not have won, but there's no reason to spread FUD about Blu-ray. Digital downloads won't be taking their place anytime soon, so let's try and unify behind a Hi-Def format. This will help drive down costs and create better standards more than anything else.
IE... go buy a PS3!
and this guy proves my point exactly
anyway, i will throw my lcd tv away before i buy a PS3
"tear out"? huh? a power cord and an hdmi cord. I guess some people could consider that tearing out...
And they give you three boxes for free. I'm sure "Honey" can do just fine with the two left at home. Anyhow that is just for the non-tech people.I do the downloads with my HTPC. Why is a 50mb+ connection needed? I don't care about watching it real-time. I'd rather download it now and wait a few hours than wait "10 years+" to watch it real-time. Anyhow, I like the freedom to take all [hundreds] of my movies with me to a friend's house. Nothing like taking a disc over to a house, other friends show up that have already seen the movie, and not watch it anyway (let alone risk it getting scratched or losing it). I prefer taking my entire collection on the road with me. Laptops work very well.
Especially when it's the company laptop. The only restriction I see is with carrying a stack of physical movie discs. Anyhow, my point was we have these services available now when you said we didn't.
ServerKing
[H]ard|Gawd
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i will continue to add to my collection...why you ask, because there is no diff between bluray and hd picture imo. I would rather pay for the movies cheaper and have less issues with drm as well. I had a htpc and HATED sony dvds that constantly had issues with stuttering playback and stupic drm stuff. I already ordered 11 movies at 12.00 from that ddd site last week always looking for more deals. And you people forget about the HDDVD imports overseas as well which I already have Resident Evil, T2, and soon to be Equillibrium.
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
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I guess that your HT seriously needs a wire management. If you have a HT setup, I think that you would know how hard it is to setup your systems so that the wires are well managed."tear out"? huh? a power cord and an hdmi cord. I guess some people could consider that tearing out...
I do the downloads with my HTPC. Why is a 50mb+ connection needed? I don't care about watching it real-time. I'd rather download it now and wait a few hours than wait "10 years+" to watch it real-time. Anyhow, I like the freedom to take all [hundreds] of my movies with me to a friend's house. Nothing like taking a disc over to a house, other friends show up that have already seen the movie, and not watch it anyway (let alone risk it getting scratched or losing it). I prefer taking my entire collection on the road with me. Laptops work very well.
Anyhow, my point was we have these services available now when you said we didn't.
Ouch. I must say you spreading FUD. It's happening in my city right now, and spreading like wildfire. It's called AT&T U-Verse, which is FOiS (vDSL). 32mb download - not your 50mb+ number you came up with though. "Take my download to a friends house and watch it (impossible)"? LOL, what do you mean impossible? Unplug my IPTV box, take it over to their house and plug it in - about the size of a laptop, and smaller than a game console.
You say he is spreading the FUD? You are completley wrong about your post.
Firstly, FIOS is not vDSL, it's only vDSL when Ethernet drops can't be used and a MDU ONT is used to reach the fiber. FIOS is a FTTP roll out and sometimes even a FTTN implementation. FIOS is available in 50mb packages, so the 50mb comment isn't unheard off. In most homes and most applications, you do not see a vDSL implementation, this is particularly common in apartments or other infrastructure prohibitive roll outs.
U-Verse is a FTTP or FTTC roll out and utilizes vDSL to carry the last leg of the feed. You can't unplug your U-Verse system and use it at a friends house, unless if they are on the same network and they have the same service availbile. vDSL has a very short range thus making your argument even more moot.
U-Verse is spreading quickly, much faster than FIOS but there are a majority of homes which may not see it for years, thus these homes can not use your fancy box when you take it with you. Same goes with FIOS.
So whereas I can send a DVD or any physical media around the world provided that the person has a compatible player, you can't do the same with your little set-top box.
So how about you stop spreading the FUD.
You completely ignored a small feature known as quality. These services have quality below broadcast HD, which is itself below Disk HD. U-Verse in particular is known to quite poor quality. Disk>HD Broadcast>HD download.
Rather than spend hours maxing my internet connection, for marginal quality, I would rather spend 15mins going to the vid store to rent the full quality disk version. I would only go the download route if it was significantly cheaper and it isn't.
I don't see widespread downloads taking over anytime soon (ie in less than 10 years). Bluray has an ample lifespan ahead.
I am completely wrong? Damn, that's harsh especially when you don't have any facts to back yourself up. I'm not so sure much of what you said has any merit.
You must obviously know more about the tech than I do. I'm just going off what the installer was telling me. Obviously you agree with what they were telling me by contradicting your own statements. -> "FIOS is a FTTP roll out" "U-Verse is a FTTP or FTTC roll out", which means my statement that U-Verse is FIOS is true. "vDSL has a very short range thus making your argument even more moot." umm, one of my friends lives about 5 blocks away. "very short range" is arguable and makes "your argument even more moot".
And we weren't talking about sending discs around the world. Where did that come from?
And yes, I can unplug my "little set-top box" and use it at a friends house. Do you even have the service, and if you do, tried this? It plays my downloads (recordings) just fine. Call me a liar, I don't care because it DOES work for me.
So, you stop spreading the FUD.
"well managed" is a perspective viewpoint. What I think is well managed may be above what you would consider well managed. Well managed also means to me it is not a pain in the arse to unplug/move devices. Which is why I took the stance that I can see how some people may need to be "tear out" a device from their tangled mess.
Google - Use it once in a while. Prove me wrong.
Incorrect. Not the same thing. U-Verse uses vDSL and FIOS does not but can if needed (you can use vDSL on a lot of applications). FIOS sometimes have to use it IF they can't physically run new lines such as in apartment building, then the service becomes somewhat similar in terms of roll out.
If you read what I said, U-Verse is FTTC (Fiber to the curb) meaning that they run it out to a box and it is run to nearby homes. vDSL has a very short range, vDSL has a 300m range, hardly your 5 blocks. Your friend most likley is U-Verse ready and have the service availible to use.
Now if you paid attention, I said they wont be able to use it if they can't get the service. Remember FTTC? Meaning you need to have the fiber run to your neighborhood/street... no pipe = no service. Can't get any more simpler about that.
1,000 feet (300m) is pretty short, by any communications standard. I think you need to realize that you don't know much about this technology, only what the installer told you, so it's best not to tell people that they are wrong and rather to sit back and keep it zipped when you don't know a dime more.
I
And yes, I can unplug my "little set-top box" and use it at a friends house. Do you even have the service, and if you do, tried this? It plays my downloads (recordings) just fine. Call me a liar, I don't care because it DOES work for me.
So, you stop spreading the FUD.
FIOS isn't available in the state of Michigan and U-Verse is scarce here. However, I do work with the technologies daily. And no, you can't run your U-Verse or FIOS box over here, because the fiber isn't physically present... this making your argument null and void.
Think of it more as a cable box, you can only move that cable box to a friends house if he has the same carrier or if he has the same service carrier. In some cases even if he has the same carrier he wont be able to use, it would depend on the system and geographical area.
soulman901
Gawd
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This is more of a loss for consumers than it is a "Win". You have Sony which is Greedy for $$$ in control of a Movie Format. Let's see, umm UMD anyone? So if you haven't gotten into Blu-ray at Christmas with the prices being the lowest, you can expect those prices to stay right where they are for a long long time.
My response was to your #1, which didn't mention anything about quality. My reply was because you said we didn't have the bandwidth available or specific services. Why is that so hard to swallow? I proved my point that I do indeed have the service.
How is U-Verse any less quality than a download using a dial-up modem? Sure it will take months to download the same file, but it will still have the same quality. Don't forget U-Verse is a TV service as well as an internet service... The TV service is okay - 1080i isn't that bad as long as the source is good. I'm guessing 1080i will be around for some time even if 100mb+ connections become the standard...
Not everybody lives within 15 mins of a vid store. Rental is only temporary and a rip-off (renting costs as much as owning the DVD, wtf?). The only rental store reasonably close to me is Ballbuster (aka Blockbuster) Video, which I will not have anything to do with.
Just accept the fact that people prefer digital downloads over physical media. Sheesh.
People have been downloading South Park episodes for years. This isn't anything new. Physical media will always be around. Digital downloads have to be stored on something... Blu is just another digital download stored on a disc. disc burners FTW- Joined
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Esp. when I would have to futz with network settings at my place as I don't do DHCP. Sure it takes less than 2 minutes to assign a static IP and be on your way, but still more time than bringing over a small polycarbonate disc and popping it in the player.
TheBluePill
2[H]4U
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Give me a $99 BD Player and $15-$20 new Titles and Im all on board.
It's not an argument. It's fact. I can unplug my "little set-top box" and play it at anybody's house. I guess you haven't a clue what a DVR is? Or is your tunnel vision only thinking of the TV service? Here let me educate you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_video_recorder And yes you also get one for free with U-Verse. https://uverse1.att.com/un/launchAMSSNotAuthenticated.do?target_action=SelectOffer&categoryId=WEB1 "3 HD-ready receivers - one with DVR - at no additional cost"
You made the reply, you post the links to back your claims as facts. I'm not doing the work for your laziness.
I'm not a know-it-all and never claimed to be. Thanks for being a little informative, but it would sure be nice if you would educate us rather than just be facetious.
I could really care less which format wins because I have a dual format player. All I'm hearing is the whiners that only bought into a single format, whether they are parading around that their blu-ray format won over hd-dvd or the ones who are still happy with their hd-dvd players and hating that they will have to buy another player if they want to continue watching the newer hi-def movies. (pardon the run-on sentence, hehe). Then there are those who think their precious blu-ray format is somehow "better" than a digital download or vice versa. Use what you think works better for your needs and quite slandering on others for their choices.
Now you are talking about replaying offline recorded video. Nice. Keep grabbing the straws. Oh and I know what a DVR is, I have a few of them, but why you try to call me out on the service when you are now not even talking about the service but rather something that is pre-recorded. You lost the argument on the service, and now your focusing on carrying around pre-recorded shows/movies on a hard drive.
Now basically what you are reffering to is carrying a disk or collection of disks, thus you are still carrying physical media... no longer does your u-verse story come into play, making your entire argument moot.
Carrying a computer or a media collection, your argument is starting to loose steam pretty quickly.
Claims? It's called common sense. You did the work to show me what a DVR is (hell, next you may show me what the sky looks like too). Instead, why don't you just use your wikipedia and search for vDSL... more than you ever cared to know... no work required either.
You mean like your posts so far?
Kinda like you've done here?