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I'm giving up on Ubuntu now ...
- Thread starter leoftw
- Start date
Battl3fr0nt
Limp Gawd
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make one..
Are you on Vista?
Boot from disk- input keyboard info and such, choose REPAIR.
Then choose command prompt option.
Run bootrec /fixmbr and bootrec /fixboot
Worked for me
I gave up, too.
Ubuntu is still far from ever becoming a masses OS I think.
#1- couldn't get graphics card to work right.
#2- I still had to resort to command line to configure the most simple of tasks
Boot from disk- input keyboard info and such, choose REPAIR.
Then choose command prompt option.
Run bootrec /fixmbr and bootrec /fixboot
Worked for me
I gave up, too.Ubuntu is still far from ever becoming a masses OS I think.
#1- couldn't get graphics card to work right.
#2- I still had to resort to command line to configure the most simple of tasks
not that this has anything todo with the topic... but
Old cards have no support from ATi but the open-source drive works very well
Newer cards have very good support from ATi but no OSS drivers (atm)
The issue is with the middle-ground where nothing exists. Harsh as it may sound buy ATi and Linux == bad. Sure new cards are great and the latest drivers are \o/ but the older ones are the issue. That should change in a few months but hey
The command-line isn't as scary as it is believed to be. In fact it is the easiest way to get info and set things. I mean take this forum (and well all forums) they are txt-based and it is easier to copy-paste a command and its results then trying to describe in txt a graphical thing (I mean the good old picture and 1000words come to mind)
Ubuntu have made a VERY god job of making it so you don't have to goto the command-line BUT there is still the odd case AS well as support from forums
Well that issue is due to dumb ATi and their middle-ground cards
Old cards have no support from ATi but the open-source drive works very well
Newer cards have very good support from ATi but no OSS drivers (atm)
The issue is with the middle-ground where nothing exists. Harsh as it may sound buy ATi and Linux == bad. Sure new cards are great and the latest drivers are \o/ but the older ones are the issue. That should change in a few months but hey
and
isn't a command-line thing
The command-line isn't as scary as it is believed to be. In fact it is the easiest way to get info and set things. I mean take this forum (and well all forums) they are txt-based and it is easier to copy-paste a command and its results then trying to describe in txt a graphical thing (I mean the good old picture and 1000words come to mind)
Ubuntu have made a VERY god job of making it so you don't have to goto the command-line BUT there is still the odd case AS well as support from forums
sorry to hear that, When I got into linux I found it overwhelming and felt like I wouldnt be able to figure it out but I am , just takes patience.
As for your graphics driver issues , ATI drivers are the suck its pretty sad when all my IGP and Nvidia drivers work better than any ATI card that i've tried.
Well hopefully someday you will return to the land of penguins.
As for your graphics driver issues , ATI drivers are the suck its pretty sad when all my IGP and Nvidia drivers work better than any ATI card that i've tried.
Well hopefully someday you will return to the land of penguins.
I've just started messing with Ubuntu again. Just installed VMWare Server and am creating a WinXP virtual machine as I type. I like it so far. The network comm to my Windows file server seems a little slow. I could be imagining it. I haven't really had any major problems outside of having to remove 'splash' from the /boot/grub/menu.lst to fix a problem with the screen blanking out on me on boot. Everything else has been found fairly easily in the Ubuntu forums. Even have the cool, little AWN installed too.
I did install Ubuntu on its own hard drive. I can switch back easily at any time. But keep at it man. It's the only way you'll ever learn it.
I did install Ubuntu on its own hard drive. I can switch back easily at any time.
But keep at it man. It's the only way you'll ever learn it.Being it works on Windows with no problem= Ubuntu ain't ready.
I don't care who you place the fault on, fact of the matter is driver and hardware support just obviously isn't there yet.
Don't get me wrong- I use Linux systems- have no problem with them. However, I was going to evaluate Ubuntu as a "workstation", ease of use and all that jazz. Simply isn't ready.
As a server- it is great... Workstations have a ways to go.
We are talking about fixing the boot loader here. Not changing resolution!and isn't a command-line thing
I agree. However:
The bugger of command line is syntax. Common people don't want to learn it.
In a GUI, you have no syntax. You hit a button. Pretty hard to screw that up.
I am willing to use command line for alot of things (And do!). It is just when we are talking about the masses- command line isn't acceptable.
And some things are easier/faster to get to in a GUI vs. command line... The beauty of Windows that I like- is you have both options 95% of the time.
That's what turned me off to linux for now. I HATE having to go into the freaking xorg.conf file just to change my damn resolution. Even after I'd installed the Nvidia binaries, I'd still have to edit that file just to run my monitor at it's native res. In the end it worked, but crap like that just put me over the top.
As I Lay Dying
Gawd
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Actually after you install the nvidia drivers you can run the nvidia-xsettings app bundled with the drivers, and finds your monitors resolutions without having to edit your xorg.conf setting. (btw I can confirm this with several widescreen monitors)
That being said I originally felt the same way, but then one day I borked my linux x config, I was able to fix it. One day I had to fix a borked windows setup, they played around broke something no display, how I wished I could drop back to bash or command line and edit the xorg.conf without having to do a repair.......which ended up fixing the original problem but ended up borking a few other things. Having a text based config is great, sometimes the text based config is more powerful then a gui.
Most times a text based config is more powerful then a GUI. There are very few things that are well suited to a GUI. If 90% of all applications were made for the command line productivity would increase 1000%, and the number of idiots using computers would drop off 100000% I honestly believe the world would be a better place.
Neutering at birth would make the world a better place too. I'm for that. This mudball is overpopulated as it is and every one of the fucktards has a driver's license. But yeah, typing is way better than clicking. The keyboard has more buttons than a mouse - it's automatically cooler.
I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. The position I'm in I have to fix the stupid things that people do. If people were forced to learn, the number of stupid things they do would drop off. A GUI encourages and enables stupidity.
digital_exhaust
[H]ard|DCer of the Month - May 2008
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Exactly... but most people don't see it this way, or understand it... and really, how many people have any clue when it comes to doing anything other than "hitting a button" under Windows anyhow?? Not many, and there is the problem.....it's not that Ubuntu isn't complete, or isn't ready for use as a main OS...it's the masses that aren't ready for it. And the fact is, the masses will likely never really be ready for it, no matter how polished, how easy to install, use and update it becomes.
For the most part, people don't care why things work, they just want to hit a button and have things work....
As I Lay Dying
Gawd
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I think the other problem is two fold, any one who uses linux/*nix realizes the editing the xorg.conf or a command line command is a hell of a lot easier and quicker. People whom do not use command line and want a gui, but the problem is this; when a problem occurs, most people whom provide the solution fall into the command line text config category, and the gui folks then cry what the hell, why do I have to use the command line? Not realizing that this way is a whole lot simplier. I mean I use a desktop environment, and sometimes I prefer a gui when its easier. I prefer a gui over command line when using scp or transferring a file over sftp.
BTW I tried out opensuse on this laptop and holy crap, I did not like yast, I tried so hard to play around with it, ultimately I found it slower, clunkier then apt and yast I think does too much. I found in suse that I used the command line less.................
BTW I tried out opensuse on this laptop and holy crap, I did not like yast, I tried so hard to play around with it, ultimately I found it slower, clunkier then apt and yast I think does too much. I found in suse that I used the command line less.................
digital_exhaust
[H]ard|DCer of the Month - May 2008
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Again, I agree... when I first began using *nix I was very intimated by the command line, and editing my xorg scared the hell out of me.... but after some reading, some playing around and of course a few re-installs, I started to become very comfortable with it... and soon became very aware of how powerful it can be.... so much more so than using a GUI to do everything....
But I still think the real problem is most people are unwilling or unable to learn how to use them......
But I still think the real problem is most people are unwilling or unable to learn how to use them......
And in many ways that is a good thing. MS is as big as it is, and has the market share that it has for a reason. They cater to those folks that want, and/or need a gui. Cool. Lets keep it that way. If you want a gui, then use windows as that is what it was designed for. MS caters their products to that environment.
Common people don't want to learn anything. This is one of the reasons why they buy preconfigured systems with a preconfigured operating system. That way they don't have to learn anything new other than the basics. With each new iteration of Windows, they still have to learn something new since the GUI changes a lot as well as the location of many of the settings.
Yes, pushing a button is usually easy to do as long as you know where to go to find the button you need to push. Just having to push a button is also a much easier way to screw something up. Why do you think repairing computers can be such a lucrative business? It's because it's so easy to screw things up by pushing a button.
Your arguments for GUI can easily be turned around as arguments against a GUI. I guess I'm a bit biased, though. In many cases I've always preferred a CLI over GUI for a lot of things. In the days of DOS and Win3.1 I actually avoided Win3.1 as much as possible. There were only a few programs I used that I would go into Windows for. These were mainly for audio editing. Just about everything else was done via command line in DOS. I could type in the name of a batch file to load a program quicker than I could find it and click on it's icon in most cases. Even more interesting was that I could easily fix most Win3.1 problems by going to the CLI and editing an ini file. The fix was much quicker and easier than anything I've had to do since Win95 came out. This is one of the reasons I hate the registry with a passion.
The funny thing is that with Linux I actually use the GUI a lot more than I do CLI. However, many things are much easier and quicker to do by CLI and I use it in those instances.
For the most part, the common person will not really mess with their OS. They will use what they get from the factory and leave it at that. Just about any OS with a GUI will work. Also, if you think there are no problems with Windows and drivers, then you are sorely mistaken. Most people will never notice the problems because the system they received came with a preconfigured OS with drivers that work with the hardware that was installed due to testing of drivers from the company that built the machine.
Thought I'd bump here.
I've given up on Ubuntu on my desktop machine. Why? AMD/ATI can kiss my white irish ass.
Ubuntu works *flawlessly* on my Dell Inspiron e1705 with a 7900gs. Easily the best install I've ever had.
Compiz simply refuses to work, and after 6 hours, 3 installs, the manual new driver install, and the system suddenly deciding to eat the drivers that were almost working, I'm done.
I'm getting rid of this pile of trash in a month anyway, I don't know why I even bothered with it.
Most likely the last AMD system I will ever own.
When your products suck AND your drivers suck, you're done.
That said, I will be installing Ubuntu on its replacment, which is going to be a Q6600 with an Nvidia card. Any Nvidia card. I don't care if it's a 6800. It's better than this trash.
I've given up on Ubuntu on my desktop machine. Why? AMD/ATI can kiss my white irish ass.
Ubuntu works *flawlessly* on my Dell Inspiron e1705 with a 7900gs. Easily the best install I've ever had.
Compiz simply refuses to work, and after 6 hours, 3 installs, the manual new driver install, and the system suddenly deciding to eat the drivers that were almost working, I'm done.
I'm getting rid of this pile of trash in a month anyway, I don't know why I even bothered with it.
Most likely the last AMD system I will ever own.
When your products suck AND your drivers suck, you're done.
That said, I will be installing Ubuntu on its replacment, which is going to be a Q6600 with an Nvidia card. Any Nvidia card. I don't care if it's a 6800. It's better than this trash.
As I Lay Dying
Gawd
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you do know that AMD has opened up the specs on thier cards, something nvidia hasn't done. That being said yes the older ATI drivers sucked donkey balls, but the new open drivers still in testing should mean better drivers. So don't throw that box away yet.
The new "open" drivers are being written from scratch and all there is released so far is a basic 2D driver. Eventually can be a long time.
As I Lay Dying
Gawd
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all he wants to do is use compiz fusion, 2d drivers is all he needs.
Um, no.
As I Lay Dying
Gawd
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defuseme2k
[H]ard|Gawd
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Perhaps people don't agree with you because supporting idiots is their job? Seriously, how can you create a professional letterhead type document with only a text based application. I have enough eyestrain problems as it is without a screen full of ascii text, thanks. Cleartype for the win, and gui's and pictures too!.
In fact, the reason I like linux at all is because of Beryl. Eye candy > *
.Perhaps part of the reason is that Linux with a GUI is the exact opposite of Windows?
Windows: 100% of stuff can be done with the GUI, much less than that without the GUI.
Linux: 100% of stuff can be done with the command line, possibly 50% with the GUI.
Fact is, average Joe won't learn how to use a command line for anything, on any computer. In Linux, that's great - he won't be able to break a huge amount of stuff, because most admin functionality exists on the command line only. On Windows? He can wreck the lot.
Windows: 100% of stuff can be done with the GUI, much less than that without the GUI.
Linux: 100% of stuff can be done with the command line, possibly 50% with the GUI.
Fact is, average Joe won't learn how to use a command line for anything, on any computer. In Linux, that's great - he won't be able to break a huge amount of stuff, because most admin functionality exists on the command line only. On Windows? He can wreck the lot.
TechieSooner
Supreme [H]ardness
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What can't be done in a GUI in Windows?
Obviously webpage browsing- but that can't be done in a GUI under Linux, either.
Obviously webpage browsing- but that can't be done in a GUI under Linux, either.
you got some firm results for those 50% - 100%
Thing is I use windows daily at work and Linux daily (home and work)
In windows I spend all the time in the GUI at work
In linux I spend all the time in the GUI at work
In Linux at home it depends what I am doing... I usually have 3 consoles open (one local, one local-root and one home server) but that can then change if I am dev'ing for Gentoo (more spread across terminals) or none at all if just browsing, word processing...
YOu don't have to goto the console in linux
err of cause you can webbrowse in a GUI in linux... we have graphical desktops you know and Firefox as well you know and it is 99.99% the same as it is from windows
if you mean CLI... well you can browse the internet from the CLI in linux
Thats this post being written in a GUI browser in linux AS well as the [H]ardforums being browsed in a console browser (elinks, there are quite a few btw
digital_exhaust
[H]ard|DCer of the Month - May 2008
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Ahhh.. you like Acoustique's walls as well I see..... nice stuff.
Oh... and, if you don't mind, could you please explain how to use the cli browser....looks very interesting...
Oh... and, if you don't mind, could you please explain how to use the cli browser....looks very interesting...
TechieSooner
Supreme [H]ardness
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Yes I meant CLI.
No pretty graphics and such like it is "designed" to be, is what I was meaning...
No pretty graphics and such like it is "designed" to be, is what I was meaning...
The problem with Linux is that in order to get mainstream, everything needs to be more automated and simplified. As long as it's necessary to start to study dependencies and start downloading 10 different libraries to get something working, mainstream will be a distant dream.
on the contrary... CLI-based browsers can do pretty graphics. Links can be build with FrameBuffer support so that it can draw images into the CLI. What you wont get in a CLI-based browser is: flash and other movie/audio stuff
But then again that isn't the purpose of the CLI browser, its more "crap!!! can't get into X, I need info into why I can't gen into X, the internet is full of info"
Since infomation is the core need, gfx are secondary
The CLI isn't ment for GFX (otherwise the GUI would never of been created) it is ment for fast configuration and interaction (well fast when you know your way around)
You don't have to drop to the CLI and if yr system won't go into X most would prob just do a re-install.
THe use-of CLI browsing is easy
Code:
links hardforum.comwill take you to this site. The arrow-keys are used to jump between links and ENTER to traverse such links
if you have the gmp service started to provide CLI mouse navigation you can use yr mouse to go via links. Most cli-browsers have a hidden menu (for usual browser options... bookmarks...) that is accessed via ESC or clicking at the top
leSLIe
Fisting is Too Mainstream for Me
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TechieSooner
Supreme [H]ardness
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But how many pages are realistically built with frame buffer support? A scant few, would be my guess...
Eh? He meant "Links" as in the console-based web browser, not "links" as in the stuff you put in web pages....
Code:
Fluid jrb # emerge links -vp
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild N ] www-client/links-2.1_pre28-r1 USE="X gpm jpeg png sdl ssl tiff unicode -directfb -fbcon -javascript -livecd (-svga)" 3,829 kB
Total: 1 package (1 new), Size of downloads: 3,829 kBNOT the image format build option (for a command-line browser...) and the FB option as well
nobody_here
[H]F Junkie
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the day i never have to use the command line and they install a 
in Linux of some flavor is the day i will use it
been there done that, unless you have a lot of time to do research on hardware, software, and basically take time to take a class on how the hell to use the Console....then forget Ubuntu for sure
for all it's strengths, the pain in my ass was too much to bear.....nearly all sources on the web for getting help are far far too assuming, like, to compile a driver for my WiFi card(which shouldnt be happening in the first place, yes i researched it before i bought it) i needed to go to console and was told to make a directory....then type...(wait, problem here is where and what is the console and how do i create a directory!!??) but they dont tell you all of that...it's like everyone that tries to "help" you with it assumes you have been working with it already....
on and on....after a month i actually got all my hardware working, and then it was like ....WTF....this sucks....back to Windows where i can actually get help with a problem when it does occur....
in Linux of some flavor is the day i will use itbeen there done that, unless you have a lot of time to do research on hardware, software, and basically take time to take a class on how the hell to use the Console....then forget Ubuntu for sure
for all it's strengths, the pain in my ass was too much to bear.....nearly all sources on the web for getting help are far far too assuming, like, to compile a driver for my WiFi card(which shouldnt be happening in the first place, yes i researched it before i bought it) i needed to go to console and was told to make a directory....then type...(wait, problem here is where and what is the console and how do i create a directory!!??) but they dont tell you all of that...it's like everyone that tries to "help" you with it assumes you have been working with it already....
on and on....after a month i actually got all my hardware working, and then it was like ....WTF....this sucks....back to Windows where i can actually get help with a problem when it does occur....