XP SP2 Now No Defrag

Had this problem once before. It was on a XP Pro SP1 machine. I never figured out how to fix it, but I can tell you that adding DiskKeeper Pro to it won't fix it....it wouldn't work either. Reformated and it worked that time. Like I said, I have no idea what happened and couldn't find any answers on Google or Microsoft.
 
This is an Article That was taken from another Forum so Enjoy.


Defrag defrag

Well you may underestimate it but defragging is important, mkay? It speeds up disk reads - the most major bottleneck in a modern PC it would appear. So defragging's good, mkay?

Okay now - seriously. Using the MS built-in defragger, especially on NTFS is the biggest mistake you can do. However comerisial defraggers are usually paid and the most you can get is a trial.

DIRMS - this is a small defrag utility, however VERY powerfull. It stands for Do It Right MicroSoft. It uses the same instructions for defragmenting, every other defragger uses, so don't be scared it can damage something. It can be downloaded completely free from DIRMS website.

Do not get scared - it is command line, but you shouldn't do much.
Usage is:
Code:

dirms <drive letter> [options]



Quick defrag of C:
Code:

dirms c -q



Quick defrag of C:, order files and move in the beggining of the drive.
Code:

dirms c -q move lcn



Ultimate defrag of C: that does AMAZING two-pass defrag job, but this WILL take a while
Code:

dirms c compact move lcn
 
LOL I've figured out why it won't defrag anymore and it is a good one....

When I run my system I do some very serious tweaks I disable all windows services and only run the following:

DHCP Client
Plug And Play Services
Remote Procedure Call
Windows Audio

I do this to save on memory, With these on I only run with 53mb ram usuage instead of the 200mb or more range. But with SP2 Microshaft has not run everything on Windows services, Windows XP mem usuage has gone up 50mb or more with SP2 installed depending on what you are actually using. Now with running only these services I can no longer defrag, Windows now ties, defrag in with a windows service... I'm too lazy to track which one down, but its completely stupid and useless. I guess I'll try the disk keeper program and I'll crack it.
 
[MADHACKER]Weapon said:
LOL I've figured out why it won't defrag anymore and it is a good one....

When I run my system I do some very serious tweaks I disable all windows services and only run the following:

DHCP Client
Plug And Play Services
Remote Procedure Call
Windows Audio

I do this to save on memory, With these on I only run with 53mb ram usuage instead of the 200mb or more range. But with SP2 Microshaft has not run everything on Windows services, Windows XP mem usuage has gone up 50mb or more with SP2 installed depending on what you are actually using. Now with running only these services I can no longer defrag, Windows now ties, defrag in with a windows service... I'm too lazy to track which one down, but its completely stupid and useless. I guess I'll try the disk keeper program and I'll crack it.
Click to expand...
Heh. Wow.

God help me if I ever sounded this stupid when I was young.
 
Ranma_Sao said:
There is no freaking reason to low level format the drive. The only time you should do that if there is something wrong, and the drive manufacturer recommends it.
Click to expand...

I just gotta call bullshit on this. No offense.
I recommend it for every clean install.
You ever do a clean install of XP over 2K, (booting from CD), delete all partitions, recreate partitions, format and install, only to have it ask you if you want to boot into 2K when you restart?
People fear "low level format" for no good reason.
Back in the early FAT days, it was something to fear, sure. Now, all it means is a zero-fill.
Every major HDD manufacturer offers a simple utility to do it.
 
t. shuffle said:
Now, all it means is a zero-fill.
Click to expand...
Um...kinda, but not really

A low level format defines the tracks and sectors on the HD. This is done at the factory.

Old hard drives based on the MFM interface were the last to be capable of a true low level format by a user. IDE/SATA/SCSI drives are all incapable of being low-leveled by the user.

Manufacturers such as Seagate have used the name low-level format for their zero-fill tools, possibly for the sake of nostalgia with the old-school users.

This reason is mentioned in depth on the PC Guide

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/geom/formatUtilities-c.html said:
As I have said (probably too often, sorry) modern drives do not need to be low-level formatted by the end user, and in fact cannot be LLFed outside the factory due to their precision and complexity. However, it seems that the need to LLF hard disks on the part of users has never gone away. Like some primordial instinct, many PC users seem to have a fundamental desire to LLF their modern disks. Maybe it is built into the genetic code in some way yet undiscovered. ;^) In fact, even if it were possible, the vast majority of the time that someone "needs" to LLF a hard disk today, it is not really necessary. Many users jump quickly to wanting to try an "LLF" whenever they have a problem with their hard disk, much the way many jump to re-installing their operating system whenever it gives them trouble.
Click to expand...
I do agree that a zero-fill before a clean install is a good thing, but the only real low-level formatting you are doing on any modern computer is in the floppy drive, which really does get low-leveled when you do a full format.
 
t. shuffle said:
I just gotta call bullshit on this. No offense.
I recommend it for every clean install.
You ever do a clean install of XP over 2K, (booting from CD), delete all partitions, recreate partitions, format and install, only to have it ask you if you want to boot into 2K when you restart?
People fear "low level format" for no good reason.
Back in the early FAT days, it was something to fear, sure. Now, all it means is a zero-fill.
Every major HDD manufacturer offers a simple utility to do it.
Click to expand...

That isn't a true low-level format, bud.
 
I was under the impression that a typical user "couldn't" perform a low level format....it was just a catch phrase that caught on as a fancy way of saying over-writing each bit on the drive with a zero. I thought a true low level format is only done by the drive manufacturer's, and not the end users.
 
t. shuffle said:
I just gotta call bullshit on this. No offense.
I recommend it for every clean install.
You ever do a clean install of XP over 2K, (booting from CD), delete all partitions, recreate partitions, format and install, only to have it ask you if you want to boot into 2K when you restart?
People fear "low level format" for no good reason.
Back in the early FAT days, it was something to fear, sure. Now, all it means is a zero-fill.
Every major HDD manufacturer offers a simple utility to do it.
Click to expand...

I call bullshit. ;) *No Offense*

If you format the disk during text mode, it won't ask you to boot into the old OS. Textmode only saves the boot.ini in memory, if you don't format the system drive during text mode. If that isn't the case, I want to see your machine, and all your logs. ;)

I'm sorry to the thread starter, I should have asked first, have you tweaked your machine and that could have saved us all alot of time. I will make sure to ask that first with any other reply I make to a problem that only happens to them and no one else. ;)
 
t. shuffle said:
I think that's what I was saying, bud. No?
Click to expand...

No, that is not a low level format, bud.

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/L/LLF.html

(n.) Short for low-level format, a formatting method that creates the tracks and sectors on a hard disk. Low-level formatting creates the physical format that dictates where data is stored on the disk. Also see high-level format.
Modern hard drives are low-level formatted at the factory for the life of the drive. A PC can not perform an LLF on a modern IDE/ATA or SCSI hard disk, and doing so would destroy the hard disk. Older MFM drives could be low-level formatted to extend the life of the disk, but modern hard drives no longer use MFM technology.

A low-level format is also called a physical format.

Floppy disks must also undergo low-level and high-level formatting, but these two are generally performed at the same time. On PCs, for example, the FORMAT command performs both a low-level and high-level format the first time a floppy is formatted.

(v.) The process of performing low-level formatting.
Click to expand...

So, is this what you recomend every install?

I do have a pair of old SCSI drives on an old Adaptec SCSI card. The BIOS on that card does have the function of performing a low level format on the drives. It takes over 8 hours to complete, and your telling us that you do this every time you install your OS?
 
Met-AL said:
No, that is not a low level format, bud.
Click to expand...

That's the point I was trying (unsuccessfully, apparently) to make.
The utilities that perform "low level formats" merely zero-fill the entire drive.


Met-AL said:
I do have a pair of old SCSI drives on an old Adaptec SCSI card. The BIOS on that card does have the function of performing a low level format on the drives. It takes over 8 hours to complete, and your telling us that you do this every time you install your OS?
Click to expand...

It takes about an hour to do both drives in my RAID set. Yes, I do it everytime I perform a clean install. Maybe I'm a little compulsive. ;)
I have seen 'remnants' left over after a text based repartioning and reformating.
 
Glyphic said:
use diskkeeper, beats out the standard defragger anyways
Click to expand...


Absolutely!!! Diskeeper rocks. Nonetheless, the defrag included in XP still works for me (SP2 over SP1) on all 7 machines on my network.
 
[MADHACKER]Weapon said:
When I run my system I do some very serious tweaks I disable all windows services and only run the following:

DHCP Client
Plug And Play Services
Remote Procedure Call
Windows Audio

I do this to save on memory, With these on I only run with 53mb ram usuage instead of the 200mb or more range. But with SP2 Microshaft has not run everything on Windows services, Windows XP mem usuage has gone up 50mb or more with SP2 installed depending on what you are actually using. Now with running only these services I can no longer defrag, Windows now ties, defrag in with a windows service... I'm too lazy to track which one down, but its completely stupid and useless. I guess I'll try the disk keeper program and I'll crack it.
Click to expand...
Quackviper strikes again!!!

OK. You MicroShafted yourself when you didn't follow M$' advice and started cutting their OS to pieces w/o knowing WTF you were doing. Give up bashing MS, it's only popular with the 1337. You have no one but yourself to blame for this problem.

How are those memory savings now?

Now, all it means is a zero-fill.
Click to expand...
No, low-level format means... Low-level format. Zero-wiping a drive is different, that's why it's call zero-wiping, and not low-level formatting.

I just gotta call bullshit on this. No offense.
Click to expand...
If your going to call BS, you had better be correct, especially when you are correcting a regular, who works at MS, no less. ;)
 
If your going to call BS, you had better be correct, especially when you are correcting a regular, who works at MS, no less
Click to expand...


where you work implies that that you have knowledge and skill to do that job ,
however , in real life , this is far too often not the case :rolleyes:

oh , and , knowledge and skill are meaningless without competency (which has nothing whatsoever to do with this thread :p )
 
Since I'm obviously doing a poor job of getting my point accross on my own:

Hard drive manufacturers have created for modern drives replacements for the old LLF utilities. They cause some confusion, because they are often still called "low-level format" utilities. The name is incorrect because, again, no utility that a user can run on a PC can LLF a modern drive. A more proper name for this sort of program is a zero-fill and diagnostic utility.
Click to expand...

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/geom/formatUtilities-c.html
 
Noooo....

We got your point, your are missing ours. You called BS when Ranma_Sao said "There is no freaking reason to low level format the drive. The only time you should do that if there is something wrong, and the drive manufacturer recommends it."

There is no reason to low level format a drive, AND from your quote, "The name is incorrect because, again, no utility that a user can run on a PC can LLF a modern drive."

What he said was (basically) "you don't low level format." Your response was "BS you do," then you described zeroing out a drive, which ISN'T LLF.

YOU are wrong, HE is correct.

No on is arguing that zeroing out a drive is a bad thing, if we were saying that, then we wouldn't be getting your point. We do, but we are also correcting your terms.
 
Would it make you feel better if I went appended all of my posts, changing "low level format" into something like "what is commonly referred to as low level format", thus making it clear that we all understand that a zero-fill is not a true low level format?
 
t. shuffle said:
Would it make you feel better if I went appended all of my posts, changing "low level format" into something like "what is commonly referred to as low level format", thus making it clear that we all understand that a zero-fill is not a true low level format?
Click to expand...
Maybe you could change it into a symbol, formerly known as "low level format"?
 
t. shuffle said:
Would it make you feel better if I went appended all of my posts, changing "low level format" into something like "what is commonly referred to as low level format", thus making it clear that we all understand that a zero-fill is not a true low level format?
Click to expand...
This is a technical forum, if being technically correct, when correcting someone is too hard... Don't post. I guarantee ANY time you correct someone, and your wrong, you will get called out on it, like now. Do whatever makes you happy.

BTW, what's wrong with zero-fill, or zero-wipe, or zeroing the drive? I'd bet cold hard cash we all know what that means. The first two are less keystrokes too! ;)

Oh, and I would just say format, if I were you. How you format, zero-wipe, or other, is pretty much irrelevant unless your keeping uber sekrets.

XOR != OR said:
Maybe you could change it into a symbol, formerly known as "low level format"?
Click to expand...
That'll work just fine. :)
 
hmmm.... *wheels start turning*

Maybe we should do an anti-blackviper write-up... Something like this...

Did you go here?

Run the handy blackviper removal too, fdisk.exe

hehe, seriously, though, I guess I'll start asking that as a standard question. :rolleyes:
 
t. shuffle said:
That's the point I was trying (unsuccessfully, apparently) to make.
The utilities that perform "low level formats" merely zero-fill the entire drive.




It takes about an hour to do both drives in my RAID set. Yes, I do it everytime I perform a clean install. Maybe I'm a little compulsive. ;)
I have seen 'remnants' left over after a text based repartioning and reformating.
Click to expand...


I doubt your doing a actual low level format if it only took an hour. It takes over 8 hours to complete on one of my 4.83Gb SCSI drives.

If you wondering why I would do a low level format it is because WinXP classified them as high risk drives. Formatting them didn't help, so I did a low level format. They made it a month or so, before becoming high risk again......must be getting ready to die on me.

Frankly I wouldn't give a rats ass about this, but proving a "Bullshit Caller" wrong is fun.
 
Met-AL said:
I doubt your doing a actual low level format if it only took an hour.
Click to expand...

Doing "what's commonly referred to as a low level format" takes about 30 minutes each for my 36gig Raptors, using the utility that's built into my SATA controller.

Met-AL said:
Frankly I wouldn't give a rats ass about this, but proving a "Bullshit Caller" wrong is fun.
Click to expand...

Glad I could brighten your day, man. :D
 
Phoenix86 said:
hmmm.... *wheels start turning*

Maybe would should do an anti-blackviper write-up... Something like this...

Did you go here?

Run the handy blackviper removal too, fdisk.exe

hehe, seriously, though, I guess I'll start asking that as a standard question. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Someone who frequently posts here is already working on such a writeup. ;)

It's becoming more and more apparent that we'll need to start asking that question before offering help.
 
SJConsultant said:
Someone who frequently posts here is already working on such a writeup. ;)

It's becoming more and more apparent that we'll need to start asking that question before offering help.
Click to expand...
Oh my god....can you imagine the flames we'd get then?

I did exactly one day of call tech help, and I got yelled at so many times because I started off by asking the caller questions about their setup.
 
Phoenix86 said:
hmmm.... *wheels start turning*

Maybe would should do an anti-blackviper write-up... Something like this...

Did you go here?

Run the handy blackviper removal too, fdisk.exe

hehe, seriously, though, I guess I'll start asking that as a standard question. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Actually, my man, I'm already working on this. If you want to help out on the project, expect the proper credit to slide your way for your contributions.

PM me or send me an e-mail and we can chat.

[edit] SJC already pointed it out, heh. Yeah, I've been picking his brain some, too.
 
t. shuffle said:
Doing "what's commonly referred to as a low level format" takes about 30 minutes each for my 36gig Raptors, using the utility that's built into my SATA controller.



Glad I could brighten your day, man. :D
Click to expand...

When did we change what we were arguing about after we changed from arguing about defragging? Damnit, I thought we were still arguing about Low Level Formating, not writing zeros....Sry for my confusion.

The HardForums brighten my day often while at work :D
 
I just tried it on my emachines Athlon64 M6805 notebook and the defrag worked fine.
 
Ive put SP2 Final on probably a total of 30 machines now and i have only encountered problems once or twice which were virus related for one and i just did a soft install for the other and it started working again....odd.
 
If you disable the DCOM Server Process Launcher service defrag won't run correctly. Neither will Winamp, that's the first thing I noticed wouldn't work. MS is going to have to update the dependencies on that one. :rolleyes:
 
topperharley said:
If you disable the DCOM Server Process Launcher service defrag won't run correctly. Neither will Winamp, that's the first thing I noticed wouldn't work. MS is going to have to update the dependencies on that one. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Or you could just stop believing the crap that QuackViper spews.
 
If you'll notice the original tard that started this thread has not responed since he mentioned Black Viper. Guess he's too busy hacking Diskkeeper.
 
Ranma_Sao said:
It's RPC, why is it MS's fault you disabled RPC?
Click to expand...
If there were any mention that media players or system tools like Defrag would malfunction then I wouldn't have disabled it in the first place. It says there are no dependencies by any other system components. They could just list "System Disk Tools" and that would keep most people from messing with it.
 
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