Xbox Next Specs

[Praxis]

All we know is what they tell us. If you're saying that Microsoft is lying about 1 teraflop, then you also have to assume that they're lying about everything else. What I see, though, is they are saying the system pushes 1 Teraflop as a whole. All the math and speculation that you do cannot disprove what they are saying until we have more information.

Not quite. What I see is that they give official NUMBERS to the developers, then on stage make extremely vague references to "1 teraflop of targetted computing performance", a phrase which apparently has no meaning (Google for "targetted computing performance", you'll get NO results except this transcript and several mirrors of it).

I'd trust the official numbers they give to developers over the vague and unthinkable numbers they just say during a speech.

I doubt they'd lie to developers. To public, they very well could exaggurate. Sony CERTAINLY did.

 

[Drakensoul]

All we know is what they tell us. If you're saying that Microsoft is lying about 1 teraflop, then you also have to assume that they're lying about everything else. What I see, though, is they are saying the system pushes 1 Teraflop as a whole. All the math and speculation that you do cannot disprove what they are saying until we have more information.

Except for the fact that they, more recently and officially, have told not only 'us' (meaning lay-people) but also the developers that it's a tri-3GHz-2IPC setup. Which means 18gflops.

Trivial algebra isn't speculation. It's operation.

MS is trading the bragging rights of having the most advanced system for the earliest roll-out. It's a gamble that worked for Sony with the PS2; no one has said that it won't work for MS. But if it does work, it'll do it at 18gflops.

 

[Praxis]

Why prey tell would having HD-DVD be an upside over Nintendo's mini DVD or Sony's Blu-ray?

I am getting one as soon as they hit shelves in October.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused as to your post.

Are you talking about the Revolution (which is hitting shelves in 2006, not October), or the XBox 2 (which isn't using ANY of the formats you list)?

Anyway, HD-DVD has advantages. These include faster read times, 3 times the space per layer (Blu-ray has 5 times) as normal DVD, much, MUCH cheaper to make than Blu-ray (Blu-ray disks cost a fortune in comparison), Blu-ray is coming out much later (late 2005 for HD-DVD, mid 2006 for Blu-ray), and most importantly, backwards compatability.

HD-DVD's use a blue laser, but the disk is still designed like a DVD disk, so as a result backwards compatability (being able to use a DVD in an HD-DVD drive) is very easy.

For Blu-ray, it's not that easy and has to be tacked on (adding to the cost further).

Plus HD-DVD media can be made at normal DVD production plants while Blu-ray requires completely new ones.


Nintendo's Mini-DVD is 1.6 GB per layer.
Normal DVD is 4.7 GB per layer.
XBox's dual layer DVD's are 7 GB usable
HD-DVD is 15 GB per layer (and cheaper than Blu-ray).
Blu-ray is 25 GB per layer.

Both Blu-ray and HD-DVD are capable of dual layer disks (30 GB and 50 GB) and eventually tri-layer.

I'd rather see HD-DVD in a console, personally. The loss of that extra little bit of space is certainly worth the much cheaper media. 15 vs 25 GB is already plenty when the competition is using 7 GB.

 

[Praxis]

Except for the fact that they, more recently and officially, have told not only 'us' (meaning lay-people) but also the developers that it's a tri-3GHz-2IPC setup. Which means 18gflops.

Trivial algebra isn't speculation. It's operation.

MS is trading the bragging rights of having the most advanced system for the earliest roll-out. It's a gamble that worked for Sony with the PS2; no one has said that it won't work for MS. But if it does work, it'll do it at 18gflops.

Thanks for the backup.
But can we call that trivial algebra? It's two times three times three. Isn't that just...multiplication? Pre-algebra?
Sorry I'm being technical, today was a Calculus 2 test...

And MS is taking the same gamble, but the odds are worse. The PS2 had a full year over GameCube and XBox. The XBox 2 only has a couple of months- but it IS getting the Christmas season.

So the question is, will the XBox 2 sell enough over Christmas to significantly hamper sales of other consoles and give them a big lead? Or will the lead be too small and be overcome by the considerably better graphics of the PS3 and Revolutionary features of the Revolution?

 

[mrgstiffler]

Not quite. What I see is that they give official NUMBERS to the developers, then on stage make extremely vague references to "1 teraflop of targetted computing performance", a phrase which apparently has no meaning (Google for "targetted computing performance", you'll get NO results except this transcript and several mirrors of it).

I'd trust the official numbers they give to developers over the vague and unthinkable numbers they just say during a speech.

I doubt they'd lie to developers. To public, they very well could exaggurate. Sony CERTAINLY did.

When trying to make a logical conclusion like you are, you cannot accept some information and reject other info. The ONLY official thing we've heard from Microsoft is that 1 Teraflop of "targetted computing performance". They haven't officially given us the specs. It is true that we don't know what "targetted computing performance" means however...

 

[Drakensoul]

My bet is that Sony, once again, will win it.

They have ridiculous momentum as the 'ultimate' console producer; and no, five replies from people saying "PS2 SUXX0RZ TEH XBOX LOLZORZ OMGK" doesn't mean anything. 80 million units installed does. With only a 12-month advance, the [by far] more difficult-to-program-for and less technically-adept system has a lead of more than 60 million units. You can cut the PS2's sales numbers in half, and it still absolutely annihilates the XBOX and, my personal favorite, the GC. There's something more than a simple year lead behind that.

Maybe people just hate Umbrel... err, Microsoft.

 

[Praxis]

When trying to make a logical conclusion like you are, you cannot accept some information and reject other info. The ONLY official thing we've heard from Microsoft is that 1 Teraflop of "targetted computing performance". They haven't officially given us the specs. It is true that we don't know what "targetted computing performance" means however...

I realize that, but they have officially given the developers the 18 teraflop figure.

Now, the keynote you quote is directed to the consumers.

The developer info is directed to the developers.

So, do you want developers to think the system is less powerful, more powerful, or know the exact specs?

Exact. If developers think its less, your games look bad, if they think its more, then it lags.

Do you want consumers to think the system is less powerful, more powerful, or know the exact specs?
More. If consumers think its the most powerful thing on the planet, they buy.

So if I had to say one was right and one was wrong...the developers number is MUCH more likely to be real, and is much more realistic at that.

You're right, they could both be wrong, but we're talking about a VAGUE REFERENCE to teraflops during a speech vs an entire technical sheet. Which do you think carries more weight?

 

[Tiny]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused as to your post.

Are you talking about the Revolution (which is hitting shelves in 2006, not October), or the XBox 2 (which isn't using ANY of the formats you list)?

It was in referance to your earlier post.

I know what MS and Sony are using. Nintendo hasn't even hinted at what they are using. Having Blu-ray in the PS3 is simply a tool for Sony to get the name in the house holds. They are back at it again...this time instead of Beta vs. VHS, it is Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD.

So the more chances Sony gets to put the Blu-ray name on something, they will.

Being first to market didn't hurt Sony, and with the continued additions of legendary talent as first party developers, MS ain't gonna hurt either being first.

And when I was talking about 'getting one in October", it was obviously in referance to the next offering from MS. It is not even a question in my mind as to get the next offering from MS or not. I loved the Xbox, and since not only are the same developers making games for the new one, but even more devs are making games, it just makes sense to me. I will only get the PS3 if they make another ICO. ICO was the reason I re-bought (I bought one on launch day and sold it 5 months later)a PS2. I still play ICO. As for what Nintendo is offering, I don't care. I can't stand thier paddles since the N64 days.

 

[mrgstiffler]

My bet is that Sony, once again, will win it.

They have ridiculous momentum as the 'ultimate' console producer; and no, five replies from people saying "PS2 SUXX0RZ TEH XBOX LOLZORZ OMGK" doesn't mean anything. 80 million units installed does. With only a 12-month advance, the [by far] more difficult-to-program-for and less technically-adept system has a lead of more than 60 million units. You can cut the PS2's sales numbers in half, and it still absolutely annihilates the XBOX and, my personal favorite, the GC. There's something more than a simple year lead behind that.

Maybe people just hate Umbrel... err, Microsoft.

Agreed. People who are not much into gaming are practically brainwashed into believing "Playstation" is better than the rest. It used to be that people would refer to playing video games as "Playing Nintendo", now it's "Playing Playstation".

 

[Drakensoul]

When trying to make a logical conclusion like you are, you cannot accept some information and reject other info. The ONLY official thing we've heard from Microsoft is that 1 Teraflop of "targetted computing performance". They haven't officially given us the specs. It is true that we don't know what "targetted computing performance" means however...

Sure 'you' can. One can accept actual technical specification, and use that to elucidate theoretical performance maximum. One can also choose to reject an absolutely ridiculous off-handed performance claim in a single interview.

Using common-sense isn't indicative of a failure in reasoning.

If I tell you that three of these *holds one up* Gatorade bottles inclusively have enough liquid in them to fill my 75-gallon fish tank and someone then releases that each bottle holds 710mL of liquid, do you make the same arguement? All you know is what I've told you: My Gatorade will fill my 75-gallon fish tank. Of course it's preposterous claim, but still...you're going to cling to that reasoning?

One is technical fact. The other is hype.

At any rate, if the XBOX360 *shudder* pulls out 1teraflop... well, I'll buy one.

 

[Praxis]

Agreed. People who are not much into gaming are practically brainwashed into believing "Playstation" is better than the rest. It used to be that people would refer to playing video games as "Playing Nintendo", now it's "Playing Playstation".

Really? Hm. In my house it's still Playing Nintendo. Even when I'm playing another console.

Guess it's just tradition...

You can cut the PS2's sales numbers in half, and it still absolutely annihilates the XBOX and, my personal favorite, the GC. There's something more than a simple year lead behind that.

Well, I can think of a number of other factors.

1) When everyone has had a PS2 for a year, people tend to get what their friends have.
2) A lot of people hate Microsoft. I know someone who has completely boycotted them and doesn't use a single product of theirs with the sole exception of Word for work reasons.
3) For some reason, the popular opinion is that GameCube is a "kiddie system", so people who want to be cool don't buy GameCubes. Oh well, their loss, the poor fools.

 

[RancidWAnnaRIot]

Really? Hm. In my house it's still Playing Nintendo. Even when I'm playing another console.

Guess it's just tradition...




Well, I can think of a number of other factors.


2) A lot of people hate Microsoft. I know someone who has completely boycotted them and doesn't use a single product of theirs with the sole exception of Word for work reasons.
.

Why doesn't you buddy just use Open office.org???


www.openoffice.org

 

[Hate_Bot]

I just have to say that Nintendo really is an understated game maker.

Yesterday, I went to blockbuster, since there were no really good new games to rent with the Xbox, I rented "The legend of Zelda: Four swords adventure"

I think nintendos motto of "Gameplay over graphics" is right. I have never played a made by Nintendo game for the Gamecube that I thought wasn't fun. Paper mario was a blast, The mario partys were fun with friends, the wind waker, thoguh slightly fruity, was pretty addictive, And now this game. It's very fun, especially all the little puzzles and such.

So ya. I will be getting Nintendos next system.

 

[Praxis]

Why doesn't you buddy just use Open office.org???


www.openoffice.org

Well, at the time (I knew him in holland, I moved since then, two years ago, he might be using it now), OpenOffice wasn't available for his platform except through X11 (hideously slow).

In fact, it still isn't, except a Java port, though there have recently been a few Word alternatives released.

So I doubt he'll ever get a newer version of Word. He'll probably switch to the Java O, or buy Pages or something.

 

[Ballz2TheWallz]

um im sorry whoever said the tri core processor was going to be 18gigaflops...ms stated it will have the power of 1teraflop so shut the fuck up. dont say they lied to devolpers they would be pissed

 

[Praxis]

um im sorry whoever said the tri core processor was going to be 18gigaflops...ms stated it will have the power of 1teraflop so shut the fuck up. dont say they lied to devolpers they would be pissed

They told the developers it would be 18 gigaflops and gave the ACTUAL TECH SPECS and the general public it was 1 teraflop with absolutely no information whatsoever in a very vague statement that doesn't actually make sense when you read the whole sentence. The developers are the people they'd want to know the exact specs, while the general public are the ones they'd want to hype it to so they'd buy it. Which do you believe?


Oh, and
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=760666

Read point 1 again before you make another post.


And 1 teraflop is impossible in a console in 2005. It would completely blow away the fastest supercomputers that cost well over a million dollars today.

 

[Terpfen]

Except for the fact that they, more recently and officially, have told not only 'us' (meaning lay-people) but also the developers that it's a tri-3GHz-2IPC setup. Which means 18gflops.

Apparently the "three CPUs" deal is wrong. It's one CPU with three cores. If it really was three CPUs, well... let's just say they should call it Saturn 2.

I think nintendos motto of "Gameplay over graphics" is right.

Nintendo's motto is "quality, not quantity." "Gameplay over graphics" is generally the hardcore gamer's motto.

Anyway, no one shortchanges Nintendo's ability to make good games. What some people are tiring of (me included) is playing the same franchise over and over. Nintendo is doing its best to make things fresh, but some of it just isn't working--StarFox should probably go away and never come back, for example. And Nintendo has mismanaged some of its other franchises--the Mother (EarthBound) series, for example. Mother 3 has been in development for damn near 10 years now (and you thought DNF was vaporware!) Fire Emblem took 15 years to gain any kind of a stateside presence, and even then it's only on the GBA.

Nintendo can make great games, but they need other companies to make great games too.

 

[Praxis]

Apparently the "three CPUs" deal is wrong. It's one CPU with three cores. If it really was three CPUs, well... let's just say they should call it Saturn 2.

Uh, same thing. Each core is a fully functioning CPU, it just goes in one CPU slot.

Each core runs at 3 GHz. You just have 3 processor cores on one chip.

Nintendo's motto is "quality, not quantity." "Gameplay over graphics" is generally the hardcore gamer's motto.

Did you watch GDC? Nintendo was urging developers that with modern cinematic quality gaming, developers needed to concentrate on innovative gameplay instead of just having the best graphics, because the graphics are so amazing people will hardly tell the difference.

It is gameplay over graphics, now.
I don't see where you get Quality over Quantity, because games like Zelda and Metroid have Quality AND Quantity (takes AGES to beat).

Nintendo can make great games, but they need other companies to make great games too.

Definitely, that was the point of the whole GDC speech.

 

[Terpfen]

Uh, same thing. Each core is a fully functioning CPU, it just goes in one CPU slot.

Each core runs at 3 GHz. You just have 3 processor cores on one chip.

I was under the impression that triple-core is still considered one processor.

Did you watch GDC? Nintendo was urging developers that with modern cinematic quality gaming, developers needed to concentrate on innovative gameplay instead of just having the best graphics, because the graphics are so amazing people will hardly tell the difference.

I did. That doesn't change the fact that "gameplay over graphics" isn't Nintendo's slogan, the only thing I mentioned. What does GDC have to do with an advertising line Nintendo has used since 1996?

It is gameplay over graphics, now.
I don't see where you get Quality over Quantity, because games like Zelda and Metroid have Quality AND Quantity (takes AGES to beat).

I got it from Nintendo themselves. Their motto from the second year of the N64 onward was "quality, not quantity." At the time, they were mocked for it, because it was seen as a lame excuse for the N64's lack of software, which was neither plentiful nor fun.

 

[Praxis]

I was under the impression that triple-core is still considered one processor.

It's a single chip, but the computer sees it as three different processors, and each core runs at its own clock speed, and it gets the same (well slightly faster due to the fact that they're closer together) speed as a triple-processor system.

I did. That doesn't change the fact that "gameplay over graphics" isn't Nintendo's slogan, the only thing I mentioned. What does GDC have to do with an advertising line Nintendo has used since 1996?

Nintendo hasn't used that advertising line since the GameCube came out.

I got it from Nintendo themselves. Their motto from the second year of the N64 onward was "quality, not quantity." At the time, they were mocked for it, because it was seen as a lame excuse for the N64's lack of software, which was neither plentiful nor fun.

N64, not GameCube! They haven't used that in years.

 

[Dallows]

I would probably only buy a gamecube if I was a big zelda fan. They might have a great game or two, but the support just isn't there as it is with ps2 or even xbox. That's the problem. That and their controller is gay. the next xbox will still suck ass because it's made by people who have no idea what they're doing. The problem with systems is the developers of the games. If they would actually take the time to code the games correctly you would see more games (GT4) that rival even the xbox's best. Oh, that and I think xbox live is the worst thing ever... ever.

 

[Tiny]

LIVE is reguarded as the best online option for consoles. It smacks Nintendo's offering with out a second thought, and Sony's doesn't offer much more resistance than Nintendo.

 

[Praxis]

LIVE is reguarded as the best online option for consoles. It smacks Nintendo's offering with out a second thought, and Sony's doesn't offer much more resistance than Nintendo.

Except for the price of XBox Live you could get a brand new $50 game each year on top of what you were already getting.

Nintendo's next-gen system is supposed to take on XBox Live, but do it free.

I detest pay-to-play online.

I would probably only buy a gamecube if I was a big zelda fan. They might have a great game or two, but the support just isn't there as it is with ps2 or even xbox. That's the problem.

Yeah, Nintendo screwed up the third party support, but it still exists. Look at RE4 and the Viewtiful Joe series (was GC exclusive until just recently). Lots of Capcom exclusives on GC.

And as they said they intend to rectify this on the DS and Revolution. Yay.

The thing is, the GameCube has a lot of quality games straight from Nintendo. Metroid Prime 1 and 2 rock. Zelda: The Wind Waker and the new Zelda game and Ocarina of Time all utterly own. Super Mario Sunshine is surprisingly good. Super Smash Bros Melee rules. Etc.

The third party games is lacking.

So it's a tough choice. I can't stand going without Burnout 3 from the PS2, but then if I have a PS2 I can't go without my Nintendo games...
If Nintendo does third party support right I won't have to worry about that on the Revolution. Burnout 4, please be on the next Nintendo...please...

That and their controller is gay.

I actually kinda like it better. The PS2 and XBox have multiple same sized buttons arranged in a square or rectangle (the XBox's is the worst, because they feel funny and too rounded and there's the two other small buttons that make it six). To go from X to Triangle on PS2, for example, you have to lift the finger. On the GC, you have the big A button in the middle and the buttons arranged around it, so you can keep a finger on A and quickly reach any of the others.

The XBox triggers are nice though, as are the buttons on the top of the PS2 controllers.

 

[Tiny]

Except for the price of XBox Live you could get a brand new $50 game each year on top of what you were already getting.

That doesn't make any sense. The way it is worded is confusing. On top of what you are already getting? wha?

Nintendo's next-gen system is supposed to take on XBox Live, but do it free.

That is nothing but hype speak right now. Nothing has been shown. Where you not just railing against others when it comes to listening to press-releases and hype?

I detest pay-to-play online.

We all wish we could game online forever for free. But that ain't gonna happen, so get used to it.

 

[Terpfen]

It's a single chip, but the computer sees it as three different processors, and each core runs at its own clock speed, and it gets the same (well slightly faster due to the fact that they're closer together) speed as a triple-processor system.

Either way, they've avoided Saturn Syndrome, and that's good enough.

Nintendo hasn't used that advertising line since the GameCube came out.

It was never an advertising line, it was an unofficial company motto and a marketing-style answer to the typical "why have developers left you and gone to Sony?" interview questions the company would get. Either way, "quality, not quantity" is associated with Nintendo, and "gameplay over graphics" is not.

N64, not GameCube! They haven't used that in years.

Yes, they have. It was created during the days of the N64, but it wasn't an N64 marketing slogan, it wasn't a Nintendo marketing slogan, and it wasn't a GameCube marketing slogan. Nintendo's executives keep using the phrase in interviews and during select appearances. It's not a trademarked phrase, nor will you see an advertising campaign with that line. It's not a marketing phrase, it's a PR phrase. Why is this so difficult a point to get across?

That said, Nintendo is using the line less and less often, because they aren't getting the "why are developers abandoning you for Sony?" questions.

 

[Hate_Bot]

you know what I love about console fan-boys? They detest everything that isn't there console. Siting it as "crapy" or it sucks.

Xbox live is a good one. It is a pretty good thing. Although my experience is limited (got 2 months free when I got Halo 2) it was still pretty fun. It is just online gaming, except now, you get to talk to people (a curse as well as a gift, because of all the goddamn 11 year olds playing, shreaking in there shrill voices when they die, and caling everyone racist names/accusing people of hacking when they get shot etc...) and it's just easy to use. All the people complaining that you have to pay, you kind of forget that the internet your using now isn't free, your parents pay for it. And if you are using high speed, it can be very expensive (Rogers High speed costs us $50 month).

Also, Out of all the controllers, I like gamecubes the best, it's all so simple to use, they lose out by not having triggers, but it's a minor setback.



So seriously, why can't you just accept eveeryone els' console? I mean, it's diffrent strokes for diffrent folks. They are all good systems. Some have games some people like, others have games other people like.

 

[Praxis]

Either way, they've avoided Saturn Syndrome, and that's good enough.

Sorry- I'm not actually sure what the Saturn Syndrome is.

It was never an advertising line, it was an unofficial company motto and a marketing-style answer to the typical "why have developers left you and gone to Sony?" interview questions the company would get.

Which explains why at E3 2004 they said they had made MISTAKES with third party developers and wanted to get them BACK.

Either way, "quality, not quantity" is associated with Nintendo, and "gameplay over graphics" is not.

Incorrect- quality, not quantity was from N64 and early GC. NOW they intend to get the developers back, so quality not quantity is no longer their motto. Look at all the recent capcom exclusives.


Gameplay over graphics is what they urged the third party developers to do for the next generation.

Yes, they have. It was created during the days of the N64, but it wasn't an N64 marketing slogan, it wasn't a Nintendo marketing slogan, and it wasn't a GameCube marketing slogan. Nintendo's executives keep using the phrase in interviews and during select appearances. It's not a trademarked phrase, nor will you see an advertising campaign with that line. It's not a marketing phrase, it's a PR phrase. Why is this so difficult a point to get across?

I guess you skipped E3 2004, because Nintendo came out and admitted their mistakes and said they wanted to fix their third party relations.

That's why in the last year it hasn't applied.

 

[Praxis]

you know what I love about console fan-boys? They detest everything that isn't there console. Siting it as "crapy" or it sucks.

Oh no, XBox Live is definitely the best online service. But I don't have any consoles online, so it doesn't apply. And with the next generation, Nintendo will have one of their own (they DON'T have an online service currently, and only 4 GC games have online), with WIRELESS (my consoles aren't within range of my router for the ethernet plugs, so wireless is what I need), for free.

Between a good, free service, and a great, pay-to-play service, I take the free one.
That doesn't make XBox Live suck, but I wouldn't pay for it.

Xbox live is a good one. It is a pretty good thing. Although my experience is limited (got 2 months free when I got Halo 2) it was still pretty fun. It is just online gaming, except now, you get to talk to people (a curse as well as a gift, because of all the goddamn 11 year olds playing, shreaking in there shrill voices when they die, and caling everyone racist names/accusing people of hacking when they get shot etc...) and it's just easy to use. All the people complaining that you have to pay, you kind of forget that the internet your using now isn't free, your parents pay for it. And if you are using high speed, it can be very expensive (Rogers High speed costs us $50 month).

Also, Out of all the controllers, I like gamecubes the best, it's all so simple to use, they lose out by not having triggers, but it's a minor setback.

Agreed.

 

[Terpfen]

Sorry- I'm not actually sure what the Saturn Syndrome is.

Saturn Syndrome is when a company makes really dumb, developer-unfriendly design decisions for its next console. The Saturn had three CPUs, and was originally designed as a 2D machine, with 3D features grafted on later. The thing was nearly impossible to code for, and many, MANY Saturn games were delayed for long periods of time or outright canceled. Saturn versions of cross-platform ports were always the worst possible versions.

In short, it's when a company shoots itself in the foot by making dumb decisions.

Which explains why at E3 2004 they said they had made MISTAKES with third party developers and wanted to get them BACK.[/QUOTE

That's nice. Let's see them actually get developers back. In an era when game development costs are increasing, thus necessitating more cross-platform ports, Nintendo is pushing developers to forget about all that and just code for their hardware-specific features. I'm not saying Nintendo needs to put out generic hardware, but they need to realize that developers left Nintendo in part because of excessive proprietary standards.

Incorrect- quality, not quantity was from N64 and early GC. NOW they intend to get the developers back, so quality not quantity is no longer their motto. Look at all the recent capcom exclusives.

Like... which exclusives? The Resident Evil series? Capcom broke that agreement a long time ago, and even RE4 is being ported to PS2.

And I'm sorry, but you're still missing the point: "quality, not quantity" is a statement associated with Nintendo. Regardless of whether or not they've recently stopped using that statement, it's still associated with them. Nintendo no longer makes the SNES: are we to believe that Nintendo is now no longer affiliated with that console? Of course not. Look, this is a stupid point to keep arguing: the "quality, not quantity" statement is associated with Nintendo. "Graphics over gameplay" is not. End of discussion.

Gameplay over graphics is what they urged the third party developers to do for the next generation.

They did, yes. Will Nintendo do its best to have the most powerful, easiest-to-develop hardware of the next generation? You betcha.

I guess you skipped E3 2004, because Nintendo came out and admitted their mistakes and said they wanted to fix their third party relations.

That's why in the last year it hasn't applied.

Again: you are missing the point. See two replies above.

No more replies from me. This is giving me a headache.

 

[Dallows]

LIVE is reguarded as the best online option for consoles. It smacks Nintendo's offering with out a second thought, and Sony's doesn't offer much more resistance than Nintendo.

based on what? Why would I pay 50 bucks for a service I can't even customize. I played halo2 on my bro's xbox with his 2 month free thing and I couldn't stand the fact that there was no server filter AT all included. What the hell is that about? Sure it connected quick and to good servers but not having the ability to choose what game type I want to play on is just insane.

 

[Hate_Bot]

based on what? Why would I pay 50 bucks for a service I can't even customize. I played halo2 on my bro's xbox with his 2 month free thing and I couldn't stand the fact that there was no server filter AT all included. What the hell is that about? Sure it connected quick and to good servers but not having the ability to choose what game type I want to play on is just insane.

That did pess me off. When I first booted it up. I was all stocked to play Zanzibar with some CTF. then Iwas like "wtf... why can't I choose which map I want to goddamn play?".

It was really annoying.

also "Custom game" and "Quick join" or whatever it was called, were the EXACT SAME THING! There were NO CUSTOM CHOICES!!!

(Xbox live is still good though, In mechassult, when you wanna join a game theres a list of servers, and it shows which map is being played in each server, you just join whichever server that has the map you want to play)

 

[Praxis]

based on what? Why would I pay 50 bucks for a service I can't even customize. I played halo2 on my bro's xbox with his 2 month free thing and I couldn't stand the fact that there was no server filter AT all included. What the hell is that about? Sure it connected quick and to good servers but not having the ability to choose what game type I want to play on is just insane.

It's supposed to be the best because it automatically makes the person with the best connection host and has voice chat and stuff.

As for the server filter thing, thats on a per game basis.

However, I think the small benefits don't outweight the price IMO.

 

[Praxis]

Saturn Syndrome is when a company makes really dumb, developer-unfriendly design decisions for its next console. The Saturn had three CPUs, and was originally designed as a 2D machine, with 3D features grafted on later. The thing was nearly impossible to code for, and many, MANY Saturn games were delayed for long periods of time or outright canceled. Saturn versions of cross-platform ports were always the worst possible versions.

In short, it's when a company shoots itself in the foot by making dumb decisions.

Ah. Thanks.

That's nice. Let's see them actually get developers back. In an era when game development costs are increasing, thus necessitating more cross-platform ports, Nintendo is pushing developers to forget about all that and just code for their hardware-specific features. I'm not saying Nintendo needs to put out generic hardware, but they need to realize that developers left Nintendo in part because of excessive proprietary standards.




Like... which exclusives? The Resident Evil series? Capcom broke that agreement a long time ago, and even RE4 is being ported to PS2.

RE4 has been exclusive for quite some times. A lot of "exclusives" are only temporary (say, for one year) and then get ported.

Another one is Viewtiful Joe 1 and 2. They have only just been ported to PS2- they were GC only for a long time. I just picked up 2, its pretty good.

And I'm sorry, but you're still missing the point: "quality, not quantity" is a statement associated with Nintendo. Regardless of whether or not they've recently stopped using that statement, it's still associated with them. Nintendo no longer makes the SNES: are we to believe that Nintendo is now no longer affiliated with that console? Of course not. Look, this is a stupid point to keep arguing: the "quality, not quantity" statement is associated with Nintendo. "Graphics over gameplay" is not. End of discussion.

Well, I was trying to argue which best fit, not which they were associated with in the past. You are right in that point I guess. But the statement no longer applies, even if it was associated with them up until recently.

With the next generation it will no longer be so, and thank all that is good for that.

Sorry- we were both arguing over different things and looking at it a different way, I guess.
Graphics over Gameplay appears to be their next-gen motto though.

 

[Dallows]

It's supposed to be the best because it automatically makes the person with the best connection host and has voice chat and stuff.

As for the server filter thing, thats on a per game basis.

However, I think the small benefits don't outweight the price IMO.

key term = supposed to

 

[Tiny]

Name another console that has a better online function than what the Xbox offers........ so far, the only thing that has been bitched about is the price and one games lack of online custom play. whoopity doo! Save your allowance or get a part-time job.

 

[Praxis]

Name another console that has a better online function than what the Xbox offers........ so far, the only thing that has been bitched about is the price and one games lack of online custom play. whoopity doo! Save your allowance or get a part-time job.

Like I said, I don't think it sucks, but I don't think the extra features are worth spending money on when I could get new games instead.

I'm waiting to see what Nintendo has up its sleeves with the DS and Revolution. The DS has a microphone built in and they've already announced a GameSpy based setup (which supports voice). GSA sucks (the program is a buggy peice of crap) but GameSpy's embedded stuff is great (see UT2k4, Battlefront, or Battlefield for examples).

The Revolution will also be interesting. Especially since Satoru Iwata said they're considering microphones on the controllers.

 

[Hate_Bot]

Like I said, I don't think it sucks, but I don't think the extra features are worth spending money on when I could get new games instead.

I'm waiting to see what Nintendo has up its sleeves with the DS and Revolution. The DS has a microphone built in and they've already announced a GameSpy based setup (which supports voice). GSA sucks (the program is a buggy peice of crap) but GameSpy's embedded stuff is great (see UT2k4, Battlefront, or Battlefield for examples).

The Revolution will also be interesting. Especially since Satoru Iwata said they're considering microphones on the controllers.

Like I said, are there any hard facts about the revolution/? Not just rumors...

Any pics of any of it? Out of all the consoles it's the one Im most curious about. Especially the design. I thought the gamecube was aweseom (got the black version) and I wonder what the next one will look like...




(Okama gamesphere!)

 

[LiquidX]

Saturn Syndrome is when a company makes really dumb, developer-unfriendly design decisions for its next console. The Saturn had three CPUs, and was originally designed as a 2D machine, with 3D features grafted on later. The thing was nearly impossible to code for, and many, MANY Saturn games were delayed for long periods of time or outright canceled. Saturn versions of cross-platform ports were always the worst possible versions.

In short, it's when a company shoots itself in the foot by making dumb decisions.

"Saturn Syndrome"? The Saturn was one of the best systems ever made. It was the idiots running Sega that shafted it from its release which was a surprise launch of sorts. As a fighting fan the SS was dream system because so many arcade perfect ports came to it..only thing the idiots at Sega of America released less that half of them in America and many like myself was forced to import games because it seemed all the good ones stayed in Japan. I am surprised you say that the SS was hard system to make 3D games for because the SS had some of the best 3D games ever made. It was trully a great system doomed strickly by bad marketing IMO. What else can you call it when one of the best 3D game ever made and considerd by many a masterpiece was only made in limited amounts was only able to get if pre-orded.

.....
The Revolution will also be interesting. Especially since Satoru Iwata said they're considering microphones on the controllers.

Word is what makes revolution a revolution is that the controller will be a touch screen like the DS. Developers will be able to make up there buttons and put there where you want. Read it and dont know if I yet belive though.

 

[lesman]

you know what I love about console fan-boys? They detest everything that isn't there console. Siting it as "crapy" or it sucks.

Xbox live is a good one. It is a pretty good thing. Although my experience is limited (got 2 months free when I got Halo 2) it was still pretty fun. It is just online gaming, except now, you get to talk to people (a curse as well as a gift, because of all the goddamn 11 year olds playing, shreaking in there shrill voices when they die, and caling everyone racist names/accusing people of hacking when they get shot etc...) and it's just easy to use. All the people complaining that you have to pay, you kind of forget that the internet your using now isn't free, your parents pay for it. And if you are using high speed, it can be very expensive (Rogers High speed costs us $50 month).

Also, Out of all the controllers, I like gamecubes the best, it's all so simple to use, they lose out by not having triggers, but it's a minor setback.



So seriously, why can't you just accept eveeryone els' console? I mean, it's diffrent strokes for diffrent folks. They are all good systems. Some have games some people like, others have games other people like.

I agree with the 11 year old's annoying voices, but out of the time I've been on Live, I've only experienced a few, and I've been on for a while, and when I do, it's not that horrible, really. I've never been called a racist name or told I was a hacker when I wupp their ass. I dont get what you're talking about with the whole "parents paying for DSL" thing....I pay around 30 bucks a month for DSL...not a burden at all. Now, going back to hackers and whatnot, I personally have experienced them, and it's not too uncommon for a hacker to be around every once in a while on Live...I've experienced the most while playing Halo2. I've fought people who just don't die no matter what, people who can teleport, etc....in not THAT uncommon. I don't know why I'm posting this really...I dunno, just clearing some things up, I guess.

 

[Praxis]

Word is what makes revolution a revolution is that the controller will be a touch screen like the DS. Developers will be able to make up there buttons and put there where you want. Read it and dont know if I yet belive though.

Don't worry, it's wrong. That's just a wild rumor- Satoru Iwata actually got up and said, "No, these rumors are completely wrong- we have NO INTENTION of putting touch screens on the controller."

In a later interview he mentioned they are considering putting microphones in the controllers.

However, one of the leaks (could be fake, or could be real) claims gyroscopes in the controller. That would make it tilt/motion sensing. Could be cool for, say, leaning around a corner in an FPS or turning around, or for steering a car by tilting the controller.

Or it could just be completely made up.

The same leak claimed the Revolution would have a hard drive, built in wireless (that turned out to be true), internet play (also turned out to be true), and Zelda/Super Smash Bros/Mario 128 for launch games. (all make sense- SSBM was the top selling GC game, SSB was the top selling 64 game, Mario and Zelda games always sell). He also predicted the DS would go online first and that would be carried to the DS (which also turned out to be right). This is the IGN FAQ's #1 rumor, but they don't include all the details.


I highly suggest reading the Revolution FAQ from IGN.
http://cube.ign.com/articles/522/522559p1.html?fromint=1

It includes all the official information, every big statement made by any Nintendo exec, on the first page.

Page 5 and 6 have the rumors. I don't believe the Page 6 rumors (#3 seems to be wrong, since it claims no buttons on the controller but its backwards compatible obviously. #4 seems like something they might use in a game or two, not a feature of a console), and rumors #1 and #2 are the two competing, most reliable ones.

If I had to pick one to be true, I'd say #1, seems more reasonable.
#1 btw was a guy who claimed to know a Nintendo employee who told him that stuff. He said he could not reveal the name or he'd get in trouble, and said that the guy had told him correct stuff in the past but was usually about 60% accurate (IIRC on the figure, it might have been 70%). So expect some might be wrong.


But NO TOUCH SCREENS:

Q: Will Revolution feature screens on the console or the controller?

A: No. At a June 2004 analyst briefing in Japan, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata said, "We have no intention of making a two-screen console akin to the [Nintendo] DS."

Q: Will Revolution hook up to a television?

A: Yes. It will also be able to interface with a computer monitor. In June 2004 Nintendo engineer Genyo Takeda said: "You'll be able to play [Revolution] not just by linking up to a television but to a computer monitor as well."

I love the computer monitor hookup. Projector here I come!