World of Warcraft Patch 3.3.0 Released

I see a good mix of every tank but DKs. After doing a bunch of random runs now, I'm getting a little superstitious about the group make-ups.

Hunter? Ah crap we are screwed.
Fury warrior? Easy run.
All plate wearers? Throw up earth shield and a healing totem and take a nap.

Random groups have been hit or miss, but as the healer I can usually salvage anything except crappy tanking. Dont have to worry about crappy healing since I cover that myself (ahem). All the new instances have been awesome so far, though Pit of Saron seems like a deathtrap for randoms. People get stupid in there for some reason.

On a side note, anyone in the group can mark targets now, but I still see tanks asking for leader so they can mark.
 
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As a DK my raid spec is DPS so most of my tanking gear is lacking. With how long it can take to get a random group as DPS (my average que time is about 15 minutes), I'm working to fix that asap.

I do love the new system when I eventually do get a group. Had a bit of trouble in PoS last night because the tank wasn't listening about how to handle the short enrages on the final boss. Overall, has been pretty good though.
 
darkpaw said:
As a DK my raid spec is DPS so most of my tanking gear is lacking. With how long it can take to get a random group as DPS (my average que time is about 15 minutes), I'm working to fix that asap.
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I play a DK myself, usually as DPS because I think DK tanking is pretty shitty right now. It is very low on initial threat unless you spec Frost and Deatchill -> Howling Blast everything on pulls. Especially in the randoms, all of the DPS just opens up as soon as you touch mobs, and its frustrating as hell to lose aggro before you even get diseases up :(

I am considering leveling my L70 Druid to L80 and then picking "Tank" and "Healer" to get groups instantly for random heroics.
 
Space_Coyote said:
I've done 4 runs of the new dungeons, and every one has had a Pally tank. Do the other classes suck for tanking now, or was it just the luck of the draw? I remember nerfs to Druids and DK tanks before I left this summer.
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I've seen the complete opposite. I've ran 5 dungeons with the new lfg and have had a war tank, bear tank, dk tank, and 2 pally tanks. We kicked the Dk tank after first boss, he was in all blue greens and only 21k health.
 
Space_Coyote said:
I've done 4 runs of the new dungeons, and every one has had a Pally tank. Do the other classes suck for tanking now, or was it just the luck of the draw? I remember nerfs to Druids and DK tanks before I left this summer.
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Pally tanking is ridiculously easy and pumps out a ton of threat while they faceroll on the keyboard. If you use Omen or something, look at how much threat a Paladin has 5 seconds into a fight, its crazy. At least from my playing, Paladins are on a upward trend for tanking.

All of the DK tanks I know just DPS most of the time now :rolleyes: I DPS too, and I used to be a MT for a progression raid guild on my DK. Too many nerfs...
 
i tried it last night and very first one the tank was a dick. he got us killed twice then dropped out of the group. i tried some others and things went pretty well. i some nice blues to upgrade my character with.
 
i had two palys and warrior in some groups i had. one paly just did healing in one of the groups i was in. one paly got cocky and tried to aggo 12 or so in sm catherdal and got owned. i didnt know about the secret room in the back either lol he drops a decent item sometimes.
 
Yah, DK tanking is in a very sad state. My 74 druid in quest and LW greens holds agro better off my bro's shadow priest when doing AE powerlevling than my DK with raid gear does when just grouping.

Paly tanking is just stupid easy, you'd have to be a complete moron to scew that one up.
 
ocellaris said:
I play a DK myself, usually as DPS because I think DK tanking is pretty shitty right now. It is very low on initial threat unless you spec Frost and Deatchill -> Howling Blast everything on pulls. Especially in the randoms, all of the DPS just opens up as soon as you touch mobs, and its frustrating as hell to lose aggro before you even get diseases up :(

I am considering leveling my L70 Druid to L80 and then picking "Tank" and "Healer" to get groups instantly for random heroics.
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Get used to it, a lot of these people are used to playing in raids where the tank ends up getting insta lock down on the mob, with threat.

My play style as a shadow priest, is to wait till the tank has intial agro, and then start dotting like crazy, and hope that the tank can put out enough tps that if it is a high hp mob that it isn't running towards me when it is at 25-35% life :D
 
i think the blood spec got nerfed in 3.3 so its frost or unholy from what i gather. i was also doing pug with my lock and my pet was dying rather easy. or one time he/it ..........ran off and started attacking something. so if you have an alt with pets watch out.
 
kioras said:
Get used to it, a lot of these people are used to playing in raids where the tank ends up getting insta lock down on the mob, with threat.
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Yeah it was like this for all tanking classes not long ago. DPS would have to be retarded or not spec threat reduction to be pulling aggro. Back when LK came out.

There is a definite hierarchy of threat, and DKs are on the bottom. I got no problem with different tanking styles and shit, but the DK style should not involve having your DPS twiddle their thumbs while I build threat. Meanwhile a Paladin tank rolls in, tosses the shield, throws down a Consecration, whacks a couple of keys and the mods will not move until they are dead.

Blizzard realizes the issue a little bit with DKs and buffed Rune Strike, however that is usually when tanking more than one mob... Now Blizzard has been talking about making Death and Decay do a ton more threat, not be on a cool down, and reducing the rune requirement, so I hope they go in that direction. Then DKs could just keep laying down the Death and Decay without murdering their rotation and it would do more threat...
 
knothead34 said:
i think the blood spec got nerfed in 3.3 so its frost or unholy from what i gather. i was also doing pug with my lock and my pet was dying rather easy. or one time he/it ..........ran off and started attacking something. so if you have an alt with pets watch out.
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Frost is still behind on DPS. You *can* make it work with a DW build and two good weapons, however now Blood and Unholy will still beat you by a bit. Plus the Frost DPS rotation is a mess (its not really a rotation though...).

17/0/54 Unholy can be competitive with Blood DPS as well. The rotation you end up using is not as clean though either.
 
idi dn't even think about the new dungeon system for lowbie alts, omg finally i'll find groups for that shit!!!
 
I've only had to drop out of one random heroic group so far. It was earlier today. Paladin tank, druid healer, and I was dpsing with my mage. The druid could barely heal through a good fight and the paladin kept trying to pull 2 groups but wouldn't use consecrate until they were all in a big wad and sometimes not even then. Mobs were peeling off after the healer and other random dps'ers in addition to beating the crap out of the paladin. After appologizing to the group for pulling too much and getting us killed he proceeded to do the same thing a couple pulls later and wiped us.

I just dropped group and went back in the que. It's not worth the hassle anymore. If your group sucks you're better off leaving, letting them replace you, and not wasting over an hour plus 6-8 deaths trying to get through it. No point getting frustrated.
 
^^
Yup, another good benefit of the new system. In the past if you waited +30 minutes for a group, you be far more inclined to stick it out longer.
 
Only Issue I have is with people obviously mailing it in, with reguards to DPS.

Did 2 yesterday, the one of the new heroic's, pit of saron i think. The DPS was solid, but as darkpaw said, the druid tank didn't know how to properly feel his way through the encounters. All the dps was over-all pretty good.

A few others had people with an average equipment gear of 232ish, when i looked at them, but somehow managed to do as a hunter or mage sub 1500 dps.
 
kioras said:
Only Issue I have is with people obviously mailing it in, with reguards to DPS.

...

A few others had people with an average equipment gear of 232ish, when i looked at them, but somehow managed to do as a hunter or mage sub 1500 dps.
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Vote kick!!!

I've been vote kicking so much, I keep getting the "You can not kick anymore players" message =(
 
ocellaris said:
Vote kick!!!

I've been vote kicking so much, I keep getting the "You can not kick anymore players" message =(
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The time gained from higher DPS would be lost in waiting for the person to zone in, and hoping no one else gets kicked.

I worry less about bad dps from gear, as much as lower dps from people not actually trying to do anything at all... and not trying.

And we get cranky about waiting 10-15 minutes for a group, don't want to risk the group disbanding and having to wait a little longer.
 
kioras said:
The time gained from higher DPS would be lost in waiting for the person to zone in, and hoping no one else gets kicked.

I worry less about bad dps from gear, as much as lower dps from people not actually trying to do anything at all... and not trying.

And we get cranky about waiting 10-15 minutes for a group, don't want to risk the group disbanding and having to wait a little longer.
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I can carry other people with mediocre DPS, that is usually not the problem. Its tanks and healers that I have been kicking mostly. Some people are just picking tank or healer when its not something they are comfortable with, but it gets random groups instansts. I've also kicked a few DPS people that simply do not understand what they are doing.

Have you done Halls of Reflection on Heroic? That first room can be impossible without a decent tank and healer :( Good example of a place where I have kicked a bunch of people.
 
Space_Coyote said:
I've done 4 runs of the new dungeons, and every one has had a Pally tank. Do the other classes suck for tanking now, or was it just the luck of the draw? I remember nerfs to Druids and DK tanks before I left this summer.
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Probably just luck of the draw. I'm pulling numbers out of my ass, but I've probably ran around 30-40 heroics since 3.3, and I'd say about 60% have all been Paladins. Couple Warriors, couple Druids, couple DK's.

ocellaris said:
I can carry other people with mediocre DPS, that is usually not the problem. Its tanks and healers that I have been kicking mostly. Some people are just picking tank or healer when its not something they are comfortable with, but it gets random groups instansts. I've also kicked a few DPS people that simply do not understand what they are doing.

Have you done Halls of Reflection on Heroic? That first room can be impossible without a decent tank and healer :( Good example of a place where I have kicked a bunch of people.
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Yeah, well there's 2 factors. Number one, the new heroics are kind of tuned with more geared players in mind, they're obviously a step above normal heroics, just like TOC. Couple that with the fact it's designed in such a way to kind of throw things off in the beginning since the mobs are all spawned spread out, and you got an interesting heroic.
 
Heroic HoR has replaced Oculus as my least favorite 5 man. Healing that on my geared Disc Priest is damn near torture and close to feeling like I'm in a 5 man raid setting. I just drop group if its in queue for the random.
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I'm glad I quit...

Just saw that my guild cleared all four of the current ICC bosses on release night. Then they have to wait 30 days for 3 more bosses that are complete pushovers.

WTB MC/BWL/AQ style raids. Not this complete shit that is WotLK raids.

Ulduar hard modes were good, Coliseum was not, at all. That place was a complete joke. Quite literally free loot. I pugged 10 man Tribue to Skill, hell I pugged 2/5 of the 25 man hard modes. Then my guild started doing 25 man hard modes and we did 4/5 in one week. Total fucking joke.

I don't think we will ever see Vanilla style WoW again. It would make all the casuals/scrubs who expect free loot cry too much.
 
mga said:
I'm glad I quit...

Just saw that my guild cleared all four of the current ICC bosses on release night. Then they have to wait 30 days for 3 more bosses that are complete pushovers.

WTB MC/BWL/AQ style raids. Not this complete shit that is WotLK raids.

Ulduar hard modes were good, Coliseum was not, at all. That place was a complete joke. Quite literally free loot. I pugged 10 man Tribue to Skill, hell I pugged 2/5 of the 25 man hard modes. Then my guild started doing 25 man hard modes and we did 4/5 in one week. Total fucking joke.

I don't think we will ever see Vanilla style WoW again. It would make all the casuals/scrubs who expect free loot cry too much.
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Why would you WTB hard raids for a game you quit?
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Because I would come back for them.

Challenging raids were fun. Doing the same pushover of a raid over and over for weeks on end gets boring fast. And when they only release a few bosses at a time it's even worse. Though if they released them all at once the instance would be cleared in a week...
 
mga said:
Because I would come back for them.

Challenging raids were fun. Doing the same pushover of a raid over and over for weeks on end gets boring fast. And when they only release a few bosses at a time it's even worse. Though if they released them all at once the instance would be cleared in a week...
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True, the good guilds would clear it in a week or two but they would still spend major time on hardmodes. I cleared ICC10 with my guild and only wiped 2 times to each boss, was realm first to down the 4 bosses in 10, and got a timed hardmode to boot. Next we go into 25man and wiped for 6 hours on the second boss. It may be cake for ToGC geared guilds but for average guilds like mine who lacks a solid 25 team it still offers a challenge.

Plus, I don't see why you would skip ICC after raiding Uld/ToGC...its like waiting in line for something you've worked long and hard for only to turn around and leave right before you're almost there.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
Astral Abyss said:
I've only had to drop out of one random heroic group so far. It was earlier today. Paladin tank, druid healer, and I was dpsing with my mage. The druid could barely heal through a good fight and the paladin kept trying to pull 2 groups but wouldn't use consecrate until they were all in a big wad and sometimes not even then. Mobs were peeling off after the healer and other random dps'ers in addition to beating the crap out of the paladin. After appologizing to the group for pulling too much and getting us killed he proceeded to do the same thing a couple pulls later and wiped us.

I just dropped group and went back in the que. It's not worth the hassle anymore. If your group sucks you're better off leaving, letting them replace you, and not wasting over an hour plus 6-8 deaths trying to get through it. No point getting frustrated.
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Space_Coyote said:
^^
Yup, another good benefit of the new system. In the past if you waited +30 minutes for a group, you be far more inclined to stick it out longer.
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ocellaris said:
Vote kick!!!

I've been vote kicking so much, I keep getting the "You can not kick anymore players" message =(
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ocellaris said:
I can carry other people with mediocre DPS, that is usually not the problem. Its tanks and healers that I have been kicking mostly. Some people are just picking tank or healer when its not something they are comfortable with, but it gets random groups instansts. I've also kicked a few DPS people that simply do not understand what they are doing.

Have you done Halls of Reflection on Heroic? That first room can be impossible without a decent tank and healer :( Good example of a place where I have kicked a bunch of people.
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No kidding. After posting how I like the new system, which I do for finding groups quicker, man do I still HATE PUGs. We get so many idiots it's not even funny. For crying out loud, if you have a pally tank in the group, let them pull aggro and tank and don't be a dick and try to do it as a rogue or shaman... :rolleyes:

We had to vote kick two players for that last night, one this morning, plus suffer through a group where the rogue thought he could solo the damn instance. Why the hell are people such morons is my question? It's not like this stuff is rocket science at the lower levels. My son and I have toons we play together. Him a level 25 pally tank and me a level 23 mage. We work really well together and know basics on how to handle grouping. Some of the PUGs we've pulled though were just scary stupid.
 
Playing WoW like this is very immersive :cool:

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ocellaris said:
I can carry other people with mediocre DPS, that is usually not the problem. Its tanks and healers that I have been kicking mostly. Some people are just picking tank or healer when its not something they are comfortable with, but it gets random groups instansts. I've also kicked a few DPS people that simply do not understand what they are doing.

Have you done Halls of Reflection on Heroic? That first room can be impossible without a decent tank and healer :( Good example of a place where I have kicked a bunch of people.
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Wiped twice last night on the running away part. Had one guy try to out dps Lich King while we were wiping because the mobs were overrunning us. (who is the pot smoker in YOUR pug?)

Then I left the group and did WG. It is a crap shoot. HoR is apparently hard to tank. I don't know as I am DPS.

Overall though I have had some fun times with pugs in 3.3

I am using it as a learning tool and a DPS tuner.
 
HardUp4HardWare said:
Wiped twice last night on the running away part. Had one guy try to out dps Lich King while we were wiping because the mobs were overrunning us. (who is the pot smoker in YOUR pug?)

Then I left the group and did WG. It is a crap shoot. HoR is apparently hard to tank. I don't know as I am DPS.

Overall though I have had some fun times with pugs in 3.3

I am using it as a learning tool and a DPS tuner.
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HoR is not hard to tank if the tank is smart and everyone does their job. As DPS, you should be interrupting Mages along with CCing the Priests/Hunters (especially Priests, which should die first). Any DKs in the group should Death Grip the Mages to to tank as well. The whole group can LOS the mobs into one spot anyway (if you go into the West/East rooms, you can hide in a tiny corner and force all the mobs into one spot...). However getting everyone to stand in one spot is fucking impossible because someone *ALWAYS* just runs out like an idiot when they assume that "everyone" does not include them.

I've been healing some Randoms on my L70 Druid. Thanks to a full rested bonus and zipping through dungeons using the tool, I am L72 now. Healing bring on a whole new set of craziness, like when my group kept wiping in Utgarde Keep because the "tank" was under L70, had less than 12K HP and almost no avoidance and was using a DPS spec. He would die in about 4 seconds then be like "WTF I NEED HEALS" :eek:
 
KamelRed said:
Heroic HoR has replaced Oculus as my least favorite 5 man. Healing that on my geared Disc Priest is damn near torture and close to feeling like I'm in a 5 man raid setting. I just drop group if its in queue for the random.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
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H-HOR really makes you work. Very intense game of wack o mole!
/Resto Shaman
//Chain Heal Spam FTW
 
mga said:
Just saw that my guild cleared all four of the current ICC bosses on release night. Then they have to wait 30 days for 3 more bosses that are complete pushovers.

WTB MC/BWL/AQ style raids.
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This may be a case of remembering things better than they actually were. I remember various game-breaking bugs that made older instances unbeatable at first. Cthun for sure. So while the content was all implemented on patch day, it wasnt really in a playable state to be beaten yet.

There were also higher gear requirements as you went, often you had to beat the later encounters using gear from the same instance because there werent alternative ways to get similar gear levels. Being able to roll through an entire new raid instance using gear from outside it does sound pretty weak.

HoR
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This place has been a mess to heal, some tanks just cant keep it under control. I did a heroic HoR the other day on my resto shaman, with a DK tank, what a disaster. We wiped multiple times (with CH spam), eventually replacing the DK with a pally, and suddenly with no other changes it went smooth as silk. Barely had to heal.

I run damage meters and find it makes a good uh motivational tool if you post the results in group chat.
 
Ritorix said:
I run damage meters and find it makes a good uh motivational tool if you post the results in group chat.
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Just do not post damage meters for cross realm PUGs, those are not working correctly right now :(
 
Ritorix said:
Oh? Using the 3.3 update for Skada gives me numbers. Dont know if they are accurate, lol.
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Yes you definitely get numbers, the accuracy is highly suspect though. The addon interface channel is not working right cross realm. The most obvious sign of this is when a hunter from another realm appears to be doing like 1000 DPS but is wearing Full T9+ gear.

So instead of thinking you are absolutely crushing the ovaries out of some bads on the DPS meter, just realize its a bit broken :D
 
Just some general thoughts as I got to pretend to be a hardcore player all weekend. (gf out of town = overdose of play time)

1. New LFG tool is freaking sweet, as a healer my queue time is instant to 1 minute.

2. There are a few types of tanks out there:
a. The over geared tank that stops for nothing. Often pulls three packs at once. These are my favorites.
b. The over geared tank that is overly cautious.
c. The under geared tank that thinks he can smash through everything like a geared tank. (Irritating but always interesting runs)
d. The new tank in blues, that knows how to play...I find it fun to heal these for some reason.
e. The bad tanks, come in all gear get ups. Example: The pally tank that wont use consecrate...these are the worst...and one was a guild member...(Can I tell him he sucks and needs to learn to tank?)

3. Saw people drop groups for weird reasons...
a. A dps left because another dps left had a green +hit trinket, rest of his gear was fine for heroics, he ended up posting about 2700 dps.
b. We had a druid tank, he was in elf form with like 27k HP. DPS left because tanks HP was too low. Hello, in bear he was at 40k! Made us all chuckle.
c. Another dps left because the tank was pulling to fast. See 2.a.

Overall good times, got a few upgrades via badges. Expect more upgrades later this week as the gf is gone all week.
 
zoobaby said:
b. We had a druid tank, he was in elf form with like 27k HP. DPS left because tanks HP was too low. Hello, in bear he was at 40k! Made us all chuckle.
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I've seen this happen twice so far while doing DPS duties on my L80 DK. I was greatly amused both times :D
 
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