Windows 8 UI is Dropping the ‘Start’ Button

[Dekoth-E-]

I would say devolved.

and the Menu system let you explore new features and capability. Ribbons hide things. I can see why IT people might like them. Can't have the users get curious about new capability.

Actually it is more along the lines of making the "commonly used features" easier to find for the average user without them getting lost in the clutter, While still allowing power users like us to customize and access the features we want. The end result is no system is going to be perfect for everyone, but this one compromises by offering the best usability to everyone.

Getting slightly off topic here, but still relevant. The Ribbon in Win 8 effectively does the same thing. It takes the things you need regularly and makes them insanely easy to find. While still allowing those of us who are techs to customize a view to see the advanced things we need. This helps prevent users from "getting off into the weeds" so to speak and messing with crap they know nothing about and or just getting lost and frustrated. Granted this is one of the few positive things I will say about Win 8 as the whole Metro ui and removal of the start button and heck full screen start menu crap for non touch devices is just a flat out stupid stupid decision. My only hope at this point is that MS offers the ribbon interface overhaul as an optional patch for Win 7.

In short, Ribbon is good if you take the time to learn and take advantage of it.

 

[wonderfield]

It's true there are many positive things you can say of Windows 8, but those positives are effectively nulled by the presence of the Metro interface.

On the whole, it's a one-step-forward-one-step-backward OS in my opinion. If the version numbers are designed to indicate progress from a user experience perspective, they may as well just call it Windows 7 again, as I'm not seeing where the justification for a version number incrementation lies.

 

[Yobbles]

Why would I want an app store tied into the OS? Sounds invasive to me and many of these companies are attempting to tether us and keep track of us more and more all the while pretending they are doing it to offer us a better service. That is a lie and the real reason is because they want to control you like little consumerist sheeples. Fuck 'em all, I no longer need or want their shit.

 

[Unknown-One]

It's true there are many positive things you can say of Windows 8, but those positives are effectively nulled by the presence of the Metro interface.

On the whole, it's a one-step-forward-one-step-backward OS in my opinion. If the version numbers are designed to indicate progress from a user experience perspective, they may as well just call it Windows 7 again, as I'm not seeing where the justification for a version number incrementation lies.

Huh? There are a pile of rather gigantic new features in Windows 8 (the new UI aside). The version number increase seems totally justified to me...

 

[Red Squirrel]

Why would I want an app store tied into the OS? Sounds invasive to me and many of these companies are attempting to tether us and keep track of us more and more all the while pretending they are doing it to offer us a better service. That is a lie and the real reason is because they want to control you like little consumerist sheeples. Fuck 'em all, I no longer need or want their shit.

My feeling as well. Hopefully Linux can continue to evolve and become more and more usable as a desktop OS. They have come a long way, but still not quite there yet. Either way, I may look at switching just to get away from my dependence of MS. Even older Windows like XP, who knows what they may be putting in there to track us. We don't really know because it's all closed source.

 

[wonderfield]

Huh? There are a pile of rather gigantic new features in Windows 8 (the new UI aside).

Strictly speaking, most of the new features are UI features. The Ribbon in Explorer; the new file transfer dialog; the new file management dialog; Metro. Windows 8 also has integrated ISO mounting and, supposedly, a built-in PDF viewer. There's DirectX 11.1 (which is an incredibly incremental update) and the return of hardware abstraction through WASAPI.

If you look at non-UI features, Windows 8 has: ISO mounting; PDF viewing; DX11.1; HAL through WASAPI. I don't consider these to be "gigantic new features". Is there something I'm missing?

 

[Unknown-One]

Strictly speaking, most of the new features are UI features. The Ribbon in Explorer; the new file transfer dialog; the new file management dialog; Metro. Windows 8 also has integrated ISO mounting and, supposedly, a built-in PDF viewer. There's DirectX 11.1 (which is an incredibly incremental update) and the return of hardware abstraction through WASAPI.

If you look at non-UI features, Windows 8 has: ISO mounting; PDF viewing; DX11.1; HAL through WASAPI. I don't consider these to be "gigantic new features". Is there something I'm missing?

Yes, you're missing quite a few major additions...

- New boot mechanism enabling nearly instant-on.
- Memory deduplication to reduce the memory consumption of programs across the board
- Integrated drive pooling, similar to what was in Windows Home Server.
- Integrated Hyper-V, meaning Windows can now run virtual machines out-of-the-box.
- Integrated antivirus.
- Integrated USB 3.0 support (Windows 7 doesn't come with USB 3.0 drivers).
- Built-in ISO mounting.
- Multi-monitor aware taskbar settings (multiple taskbars!).
- Easy factory-reset.
- System-wide SkyDrive integration.
- Roaming settings (preferences sync between Windows 8 devices).
- ARM support.
- Overhauled on screen keyboard (much improved over the Windows 7 OSK).

 

[wgm3446]

Get rid of the Start menu and make these assholes re-learn the old way... Command line bitches.

 

[goodcooper]

If it ain't broke,don't fix it!
It may be an old adage,but it's still all too true. Too many changes are made just for the sake of change.

or... ya know.... money....

 

[AnonymousUser]

I'm not sure what the problem is really. Of course they should get rid of it. How else are they going to add it back five years down the road as an "All New Feature".

 

[bastage]

this will simply make win 7 stick like XP did.. You screw up enough right after a good OS & nobody will move.

 

[Unknown-One]

this will simply make win 7 stick like XP did.. You screw up enough right after a good OS & nobody will move.

That's assuming this is a screwup.

I quite enjoy the changes, as do all the "normal" users who I've let use Windows 8 for a bit on my test system.

 

[DeathPrincess]

Yes, you're missing quite a few major additions...

1. - New boot mechanism enabling nearly instant-on.
2. - Memory deduplication to reduce the memory consumption of programs across the board
3. - Integrated drive pooling, similar to what was in Windows Home Server.
4. - Integrated Hyper-V, meaning Windows can now run virtual machines out-of-the-box.
5. - Integrated antivirus.
6. - Integrated USB 3.0 support (Windows 7 doesn't come with USB 3.0 drivers).
7. - Built-in ISO mounting.
8. - Multi-monitor aware taskbar settings (multiple taskbars!).
9. - Easy factory-reset.
10. - System-wide SkyDrive integration.
11. - Roaming settings (preferences sync between Windows 8 devices).
12. - ARM support.
13. - Overhauled on screen keyboard (much improved over the Windows 7 OSK

).

Thats not a great list TBH...

1. Windows 7 boots in under 5 seconds from the first windows screen with a decent disk. Windows 8 currently has that annoying screen you have to drag.
2. Memory isn't really rare or expensive these days. Most low level laptops have 3gb+ and 95%+ of users struggle to fill that.
3. Not going to used by 95% of users.
4. Non mainstream feature. Virtualbox/VMware are waay ahead of any Microsoft VM, tiny downloads and free.
5. MSE is free.
6. People with USB 3.0 will have drivers on motherboard disk/downloadable. Its a convenience feature, b ut not worth upgrading over.
7. ISO mounting software is free and widely available. A .RAR reading ability would be 90x more useful. Also not really mainstream.
8. This doesn't seem to work in the preview. But also not a mainstream feature.
9. Although an ok feature but most people wont be doing this, so will make computer repair peoples lives easier only.
10. Dropbox>Skydrive (free too, live has poor security, not sticking files on it)
11. Most browsers already do this, I don't think I have 2 computers with the same preferences. Transfer files and settings has been a feature since forever, and most people don't sit there fiddling with settings. Networked users will use group policies etc.
12. Only effects arm based PCs.
13. The 7 OSK has all the buttons of a normal keyboard... Another touch feature 99% will never use.

Though lots of them might be useful, but still waiting for something I couldn't get elsewhere for free or is already there in windows 7 in some form...

 

[cdr_74_premium]

It's for the app store as they'll make 30% of any sale of an app. So they're creating a ecosystem for it. One that will be on Windows Phone, tablets, and probably even Xbox 720. They'll all be using some variant of the Metro UI. From what I understand, Microsoft can only make that 30% if the app is made with the intention to use the Metro UI.

The way Microsoft see's it, you don't know what you want but they certainly do.

Apple is here to show that's the way to go. Don't ask, just tell, and most users will follow like sheep.

 

[heatlesssun]

13. The 7 OSK has all the buttons of a normal keyboard... Another touch feature 99% will never use.

Though lots of them might be useful, but still waiting for something I couldn't get elsewhere for free or is already there in windows 7 in some form...

Not so much addressing your point here but I think that you're discounting Windows on touch screen devices, it will no doubt be used by more than 1% of Windows 8 users. But Metro apps will be used by all Windows 8 users. There's simply going to be too many of these for people not to use a few, particularly games.

 

[Unknown-One]

Thats not a great list TBH...

1. Windows 7 boots in under 5 seconds from the first windows screen with a decent disk. Windows 8 currently has that annoying screen you have to drag.
2. Memory isn't really rare or expensive these days. Most low level laptops have 3gb+ and 95%+ of users struggle to fill that.
3. Not going to used by 95% of users.
4. Non mainstream feature. Virtualbox/VMware are waay ahead of any Microsoft VM, tiny downloads and free.
5. MSE is free.
6. People with USB 3.0 will have drivers on motherboard disk/downloadable. Its a convenience feature, b ut not worth upgrading over.
7. ISO mounting software is free and widely available. A .RAR reading ability would be 90x more useful. Also not really mainstream.
8. This doesn't seem to work in the preview. But also not a mainstream feature.
9. Although an ok feature but most people wont be doing this, so will make computer repair peoples lives easier only.
10. Dropbox>Skydrive (free too, live has poor security, not sticking files on it)
11. Most browsers already do this, I don't think I have 2 computers with the same preferences. Transfer files and settings has been a feature since forever, and most people don't sit there fiddling with settings. Networked users will use group policies etc.
12. Only effects arm based PCs.
13. The 7 OSK has all the buttons of a normal keyboard... Another touch feature 99% will never use.

Though lots of them might be useful, but still waiting for something I couldn't get elsewhere for free or is already there in windows 7 in some form...

Just because you personally wont use them doesn't mean they aren't rather giant features added to the OS over the previous version.

And yes, if you pile enough software on, you can make Windows XP do most (all?) of the things Windows 7 does, but having the features built-in as first-part additions from the get-go has its advantages.

1. Windows 7 doesn't boot nearly that quickly on most systems I come into contact with. Even my system with an SSD isn't up fully in 5 seconds.
2. You're forgetting about the ARM support. ARM tablets usually don't have THAT much RAM in them. Memory deduplication also helps greatly with hosting multiple virtual machines.
3. Drive pooling will likely be enabled BY DEFAULT on many OEM systems to help reduce disk-related service calls. This is also a massively helpful addition for power-users.
4. Just because it's not mainstream doesn't mean it's not huge. This is an server-class feature being brought to desktops.
5. Just because there are free antiviruses doesn't mean it's not a step i the right direction to include one built in to the OS.
6. it's one less thing that needs to be worried about that will work out-of-the-box. Always a good thing.
7. Just because there are free ISo mounting solutions doesn't mean it's not a step in the right direction to include one built in to the OS.
8. Multi-monitor isn't mainstream? I see it used all the time in offices to improve productivity, and a multi-monitor aware taskbar is a very handy thing to have.
9. It's meant to make normal users's lives easier...
10. SkyDrive gives me 25GB for free (30GB if you cound LiveMesh's synced storage), DropBox doesn't. Also haven't had any security issues with SkyDrive.
11. The new roaming settings feature is meant for normal users to take advantage of, and syncs FAR more than just your browser's preferences. It operates through your Windows Live account and doesn't need anywhere near the level of knowledge that current roaming profiles do. A normal user will be able to sit down at any PC and log in with their Live ID, and have their preferred desktop experience appear.
12. Yes, and support for an entirely new architecture is a huge feature.
13. number of buttons doesn't equate to usability. Windows 8 is going to be the first truly usable version of Windows for consumer-grade tablets, and a good on screen keyboard is vital for that to happen.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

Not so much addressing your point here but I think that you're discounting Windows on touch screen devices, it will no doubt be used by more than 1% of Windows 8 users. But Metro apps will be used by all Windows 8 users. There's simply going to be too many of these for people not to use a few, particularly games.

Well of course the majority of win 8 users will be touch screen, that is what it is designed for and it does that well. I doubt many if any here are discounting its value on a tablet.

Apps are for phones and tables and other consumption devices. They have no place on my PC.

Just because you personally wont use them doesn't mean they aren't rather giant features added to the OS over the previous version.

And yes, if you pile enough software on, you can make Windows XP do most (all?) of the things Windows 7 does, but having the features built-in as first-part additions from the get-go has its advantages.

1. Windows 7 doesn't boot nearly that quickly on most systems I come into contact with. Even my system with an SSD isn't up fully in 5 seconds.
2. You're forgetting about the ARM support. ARM tablets usually don't have THAT much RAM in them. Memory deduplication also helps greatly with hosting multiple virtual machines.
3. Drive pooling will likely be enabled BY DEFAULT on many OEM systems to help reduce disk-related service calls. This is also a massively helpful addition for power-users.
4. Just because it's not mainstream doesn't mean it's not huge. This is an server-class feature being brought to desktops.
5. Just because there are free antiviruses doesn't mean it's not a step i the right direction to include one built in to the OS.
6. it's one less thing that needs to be worried about that will work out-of-the-box. Always a good thing.
7. Just because there are free ISo mounting solutions doesn't mean it's not a step in the right direction to include one built in to the OS.
8. Multi-monitor isn't mainstream? I see it used all the time in offices to improve productivity, and a multi-monitor aware taskbar is a very handy thing to have.
9. It's meant to make normal users's lives easier...
10. SkyDrive gives me 25GB for free (30GB if you cound LiveMesh's synced storage), DropBox doesn't. Also haven't had any security issues with SkyDrive.
11. The new roaming settings feature is meant for normal users to take advantage of, and syncs FAR more than just your browser's preferences. It operates through your Windows Live account and doesn't need anywhere near the level of knowledge that current roaming profiles do. A normal user will be able to sit down at any PC and log in with their Live ID, and have their preferred desktop experience appear.
12. Yes, and support for an entirely new architecture is a huge feature.
13. number of buttons doesn't equate to usability. Windows 8 is going to be the first truly usable version of Windows for consumer-grade tablets, and a good on screen keyboard is vital for that to happen.

1) Then most systems are either poorly setup or have a terrible hard drive. Even my Win 7 client machines that I set up in my offices boot up in 30 seconds or less. At that point who cares about instant on? That is nothing more than a Bragging feature.
2)ARM doesn't affect the overwhelming majority of anyone. Who cares..not a major feature.
3) Not likely, OEM's are looking to cut costs, not add cost by sticking in unnecessary hardware.
4) Nont mainstream = not huge..period. A feature that only affects an extremely small subset of users is not a major improvement.
5) Integrated AV is nice, but hardly a huge improvement. Plus the EU will likely declare it anti competitive and force it removed over there anyhow.
6) One less thing, but not a major improvement.Minor at best.
7) ISO mounting is nice, but doesn't affect most. Again a nice minor improvement.
8) Multiple task bars....who cares? I only need one.
9) I will grant you 9
10) Integration with skydrive isn't a good feature, it is a security risk. This should be an optional download.
11) Most users barely take advantage of roaming browsers, much less roaming UI's. It isn't going to affect the majority.
12) No..no it isn't.
13) Good feature for tablets..still currently a small demographic.

Again he said, "Major" improvements...There aren't hardly any and your list of nearly all the features of Win8 basically reinforced that.

 

[goodcooper]

Apps are for phones and tables and other consumption devices. They have no place on my PC.

lol do you realize how retarded that just sounded?

 

[heatlesssun]

Well of course the majority of win 8 users will be touch screen, that is what it is designed for and it does that well. I doubt many if any here are discounting its value on a tablet.

I find it odd how people say that Microsoft isn't listening to its customers who complain about the Windows 8 desktop yet have are these customers looking at the sales of computing devices? Tablets now outsell desktops in retail and phones are outselling all of the computer form factors.

Apps are for phones and tables and other consumption devices. They have no place on my PC.

And what do most people do with PCs? Create Excel spreadsheets and write code? I use consumptive programs on my PCs all of the time, read book, watch movies and play games. But I can write code and use a mouse and keyboard even with the Windows 8 Developer Preview pretty much just like I do on Windows 7.

 

[heatlesssun]

lol do you realize how retarded that just sounded?

Indeed, I think Microsoft gets it more than a lot of people who are slamming Windows 8.

 

[Unknown-One]

1) Then most systems are either poorly setup or have a terrible hard drive. Even my Win 7 client machines that I set up in my offices boot up in 30 seconds or less. At that point who cares about instant on? That is nothing more than a Bragging feature.
2)ARM doesn't affect the overwhelming majority of anyone. Who cares..not a major feature.
3) Not likely, OEM's are looking to cut costs, not add cost by sticking in unnecessary hardware.
4) Nont mainstream = not huge..period. A feature that only affects an extremely small subset of users is not a major improvement.
5) Integrated AV is nice, but hardly a huge improvement. Plus the EU will likely declare it anti competitive and force it removed over there anyhow.
6) One less thing, but not a major improvement.Minor at best.
7) ISO mounting is nice, but doesn't affect most. Again a nice minor improvement.
8) Multiple task bars....who cares? I only need one.
9) I will grant you 9
10) Integration with skydrive isn't a good feature, it is a security risk. This should be an optional download.
11) Most users barely take advantage of roaming browsers, much less roaming UI's. It isn't going to affect the majority.
12) No..no it isn't.
13) Good feature for tablets..still currently a small demographic.

1. Instant-on is important for portable devices like tablets and laptops. 30 seconds is a far more reasonable time to hit with Windows 7 than the claimed "5 seconds" I was responding to.
2. Memory deduplication IS a major feature. It should reduce the memory consumption of pretty much everything you run. Virtual machines benefit greatly from it. ARM systems (a LOT of Windows tablets are going to be ARM) will also benefit greatly from it.
3. Using drive pooling by default in a mirrored configuration means built in failover protection. Less service calls due to disk failure = cost savings for the OEM. Drive pooling is a major feature for power users, and I know I'll certainly be getting a lot of use out of it.
4. I disagree. Including a full server-class virtualization package is a huge new feature no matter what.
5. Integrated AV by default is more than just a minor improvement over "no AV at all by default"

8. A LOT of people want multiple taskbars. It was one of the most requested features that didn't make the cut for Windows 7. There are multiple 3rd party software packages (the good ones like Ultramon being payware) that are currently filling the void, but none of them work as well as an integrated solution.

10. Look a bit more into Windows 8. SkyDrive and Live integration is totally optional. Just use a local profile instead of a Windows Live one to log in.
11. This WILL effect the majority fo Windows 8 users, and the best part is, they wont even realize it! What 'normal' users will do is log in with their Windows Live account (as the Windows 8 installer asks them to do as the default) on all their machines and automatically be synced.
12. Yes, support for an entirely new architecture IS a major new feature. Windows 8 is targeting consumer tablets, and consumer tablets today heavily lean towards ARM architectures over x86. Windows 8 tablets would flow pretty hard if the only option were x86.
13. Tablets are selling like hotcakes, this is a required thing to get into that market for Microsoft

Again he said, "Major" improvements...There aren't hardly any and your list of nearly all the features of Win8 basically reinforced that.

I really...don't understand what you're on about. You said major improvements, I posted a list of major improvements...

Those were all huge features. Some are for regular users, some are for power users, some are for desktops and laptops, some apply to workstations, some are for tablets. There are more than enough features there to justify a new version of Windows.

 

[Unknown-One]

Darn, no edit!

I meant to say "would fail pretty hard" not "would flow pretty hard"

 

[BladeVenom]

Wasn't this posted about a month ago?

Also, Windows 8 is gonna be the next ME/Vista.

I agree. I don't think many people will want to go from 7 to 8.

 

[AndreRio]

i will. but i wished they made something like a sp2. not a new windows.

 

[Soarin]

I am glad we have the option to not install windows 8. I like my taskbar and start menu the way it is. Does the side scroll stay at the next page or do you have to hold it? (Is there an option to set it to hold)

 

[ChronoDetector]

If the "Start" button made Windows what it is today, why remove it Microsoft? Why fix something if it ain't broke?

 

[BDS23]

It's not as good as the UI in Zune HD was, although that was meant for a small form factor. But even so, despite what naysayers say about the Metro UI, I like it. And from what I see in this thread is the same denial that XP users emit from changing to 7.

 

[JimmiG]

It's true there are many positive things you can say of Windows 8, but those positives are effectively nulled by the presence of the Metro interface.

On the whole, it's a one-step-forward-one-step-backward OS in my opinion. If the version numbers are designed to indicate progress from a user experience perspective, they may as well just call it Windows 7 again, as I'm not seeing where the justification for a version number incrementation lies.

Windows 7 Tablet Edition would suit it well.. or maybe Windows 7 Metro Edition.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

lol do you realize how retarded that just sounded?

Retarded for not needing little 2-3mb crapware apps on my PC vs full blown programs? Please explain to me what "App" is out there that does something that a full blown program on a PC doesn't do better?

I will save you the trouble, there aren't any. The reason is because all apps are little things created for people to emulate things on their phone/tablet that they can do on their regular PC.

I find it odd how people say that Microsoft isn't listening to its customers who complain about the Windows 8 desktop yet have are these customers looking at the sales of computing devices? Tablets now outsell desktops in retail and phones are outselling all of the computer form factors.



And what do most people do with PCs? Create Excel spreadsheets and write code? I use consumptive programs on my PCs all of the time, read book, watch movies and play games. But I can write code and use a mouse and keyboard even with the Windows 8 Developer Preview pretty much just like I do on Windows 7.

Outselling desktops and laptops and out numbering are two Extremely different things. Tablets and smart phones are a LONG way from being the primary device. They are Fantastic tools (I use both) But they in no way replace a full laptop or Desktop machine. They are consumption devices, not creation devices. They are used for creation in a pinch when a regular machine isn't readily available.

Again my major bitch with Win 8 is that it was designed for those consumption devices and yet they are effectively (porting) it over to laptops and PC's pointlessly. It is a terrible OS for a non touch device and no amount of polish at this point is going to change that. Decisions like what this thread is about is just reinforcing that point. It isn't designed for a regular PC and throwing a few "server" features doesn't change that fact.

1. Instant-on is important for portable devices like tablets and laptops. 30 seconds is a far more reasonable time to hit with Windows 7 than the claimed "5 seconds" I was responding to.
2. Memory deduplication IS a major feature. It should reduce the memory consumption of pretty much everything you run. Virtual machines benefit greatly from it. ARM systems (a LOT of Windows tablets are going to be ARM) will also benefit greatly from it.
3. Using drive pooling by default in a mirrored configuration means built in failover protection. Less service calls due to disk failure = cost savings for the OEM. Drive pooling is a major feature for power users, and I know I'll certainly be getting a lot of use out of it.
4. I disagree. Including a full server-class virtualization package is a huge new feature no matter what.
5. Integrated AV by default is more than just a minor improvement over "no AV at all by default"

8. A LOT of people want multiple taskbars. It was one of the most requested features that didn't make the cut for Windows 7. There are multiple 3rd party software packages (the good ones like Ultramon being payware) that are currently filling the void, but none of them work as well as an integrated solution.

10. Look a bit more into Windows 8. SkyDrive and Live integration is totally optional. Just use a local profile instead of a Windows Live one to log in.
11. This WILL effect the majority fo Windows 8 users, and the best part is, they wont even realize it! What 'normal' users will do is log in with their Windows Live account (as the Windows 8 installer asks them to do as the default) on all their machines and automatically be synced.
12. Yes, support for an entirely new architecture IS a major new feature. Windows 8 is targeting consumer tablets, and consumer tablets today heavily lean towards ARM architectures over x86. Windows 8 tablets would flow pretty hard if the only option were x86.
13. Tablets are selling like hotcakes, this is a required thing to get into that market for Microsoft


I really...don't understand what you're on about. You said major improvements, I posted a list of major improvements...

Those were all huge features. Some are for regular users, some are for power users, some are for desktops and laptops, some apply to workstations, some are for tablets. There are more than enough features there to justify a new version of Windows.

Those aren't major improvements, they are minor improvements. Read the above if you still don't understand. This shouldn't be Windows 8, it should be Windows Mobile Edition and Win 8 should be something else entirely.

 

[heatlesssun]

Retarded for not needing little 2-3mb crapware apps on my PC vs full blown programs? Please explain to me what "App" is out there that does something that a full blown program on a PC doesn't do better?

Metro apps can be just as complex or more so than most current desktop programs.

Outselling desktops and laptops and out numbering are two Extremely different things. Tablets and smart phones are a LONG way from being the primary device. They are Fantastic tools (I use both) But they in no way replace a full laptop or Desktop machine. They are consumption devices, not creation devices. They are used for creation in a pinch when a regular machine isn't readily available.

The trends looking like they are accelerating and a number of Windows 8, heck even some Windows 7 tablets can replace laptops and desktops TODAY in that they do everything laptops and desktops do (though not as fast) PLUS work as a tablet. This is an very important point that many Windows 8 haters are missing, Windows 8 isn't zero sum. There may be UI changes that you don't like but Windows 8 is 100% backwards compatible with Windows 7 and will work with all of the same hardware and software.

Again my major bitch with Win 8 is that it was designed for those consumption devices and yet they are effectively (porting) it over to laptops and PC's pointlessly. It is a terrible OS for a non touch device and no amount of polish at this point is going to change that. Decisions like what this thread is about is just reinforcing that point. It isn't designed for a regular PC and throwing a few "server" features doesn't change that fact.

I just don't get this. I have Windows 8 DP running on a dual monitor desktop and I can do everything I do on Windows 7 dual screen desktop, write code, play desktop games, run Office 2010. The mouse and keyboard work EXACTLY like they do before in all of these tasks. Yes, there's keyboard and mouse stuff that's broken in the DP but Microsoft was aware of these issues when they launched the DP and said that these issues would be fixed. I'm not going to make a final judgment on this until the Consumer Preview

Those aren't major improvements, they are minor improvements. Read the above if you still don't understand. This shouldn't be Windows 8, it should be Windows Mobile Edition and Win 8 should be something else entirely.

No! Being able to use a single device to run ALL software in the Windows world is the special thing about Windows 8, particularly on x86 machines. And there's a lot more improvements in Windows 8 that you just ignore, RAID at the OS level, transacted file copy, syncing of settings across machines, much simpler system restore procedures, better power efficiency for laptops and tablets and we've not seen the core set of apps that Windows 8 has and with Metro apps, a lot of which will be free there's going to be a number of free software options for folks that are going to be there for prior versions of Windows.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

Metro apps can be just as complex or more so than most current desktop programs.



The trends looking like they are accelerating and a number of Windows 8, heck even some Windows 7 tablets can replace laptops and desktops TODAY in that they do everything laptops and desktops do (though not as fast) PLUS work as a tablet. This is an very important point that many Windows 8 haters are missing, Windows 8 isn't zero sum. There may be UI changes that you don't like but Windows 8 is 100% backwards compatible with Windows 7 and will work with all of the same hardware and software.



I just don't get this. I have Windows 8 DP running on a dual monitor desktop and I can do everything I do on Windows 7 dual screen desktop, write code, play desktop games, run Office 2010. The mouse and keyboard work EXACTLY like they do before in all of these tasks. Yes, there's keyboard and mouse stuff that's broken in the DP but Microsoft was aware of these issues when they launched the DP and said that these issues would be fixed. I'm not going to make a final judgment on this until the Consumer Preview




No! Being able to use a single device to run ALL software in the Windows world is the special thing about Windows 8, particularly on x86 machines. And there's a lot more improvements in Windows 8 that you just ignore, RAID at the OS level, transacted file copy, syncing of settings across machines, much simpler system restore procedures, better power efficiency for laptops and tablets and we've not seen the core set of apps that Windows 8 has and with Metro apps, a lot of which will be free there's going to be a number of free software options for folks that are going to be there for prior versions of Windows.

I already addressed those other issues, I did not ignore them. They affect so few users that they are hardly major changes. The only one that is a major change is the simpler system restore process. The rest are minor features or just things that only a small percentage of users benefit from.

 

[wonderfield]

If the "Start" button made Windows what it is today, why remove it Microsoft? Why fix something if it ain't broke?

Microsoft wants to sell you a product. They can't do that if they keep everything the same.

 

[heatlesssun]

I already addressed those other issues, I did not ignore them. They affect so few users that they are hardly major changes. The only one that is a major change is the simpler system restore process. The rest are minor features or just things that only a small percentage of users benefit from.

Better battery life, file copies that can be restarted from the point of failure, the ability to simply add a drive for redundant storage and protect files, synching of settings across multiple machines, better cloud storage, better security out of the box, etc. These changes will benefit tens of millions Windows users and far from minor.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

Better battery life, file copies that can be restarted from the point of failure, the ability to simply add a drive for redundant storage and protect files, synching of settings across multiple machines, better cloud storage, better security out of the box, etc. These changes will benefit tens of millions Windows users and far from minor.

Then we just have to agree to disagree. The users that I work with every day couldn't care less about any of those features. That is mostly because if the computer doesn't just work, they don't want to even be bothered trying to figure out why. They aren't going to care about the ability to add in another hard drive and convert to a raid, they aren't going to care about syncing across multiple machines, they don't care about cloud storage or file copying. These are "Average" users, which are the overwhelming majority of users. The only immediate benefit they see is out of the box security and possibly battery life if that actually makes it to them after OEMs load the machines down with crapware.

Power users like us who care about these specific things are in the minority.

 

[extide]

Then we just have to agree to disagree. The users that I work with every day couldn't care less about any of those features. That is mostly because if the computer doesn't just work, they don't want to even be bothered trying to figure out why. They aren't going to care about the ability to add in another hard drive and convert to a raid, they aren't going to care about syncing across multiple machines, they don't care about cloud storage or file copying. These are "Average" users, which are the overwhelming majority of users. The only immediate benefit they see is out of the box security and possibly battery life if that actually makes it to them after OEMs load the machines down with crapware.

Power users like us who care about these specific things are in the minority.

Face it dude, you are turning into an old man and starting to resist change just like your dad and grandpa that you SWORE you'd never be like.

Get with the time, Windows is moving forward and if you want to sit still and let it zoom past you, go ahead, but it's your own loss.

 

[Yobbles]

Why is it his loss? What does Win8 offer me that I can't already do now on Win7? Nothing!

 

[Dekoth-E-]

Face it dude, you are turning into an old man and starting to resist change just like your dad and grandpa that you SWORE you'd never be like.

Get with the time, Windows is moving forward and if you want to sit still and let it zoom past you, go ahead, but it's your own loss.

If that were true, I would still be using XP. However I embrace change that improves things, not change for the sake of change. Furthermore I am not knocking Win 8 for these changes, many of them I like. I am arguing that they are not major changes. Now if I want to knock Win 8 I can just point out the fact that it was designed for touch devices and works horribly on a regular PC and the Metro UI is a major factor behind that. As for the non mobile device features of win 8, very little of it is a major change. Some minor improvements that make power users lives easier for sure, but generally countered by all the crap associated with it. Have you tried the Dev preview? I have, and it is freaking terrible compared to win 7. I imagine it will be incredibly good on tablets and I plan on trying it out when given the chance. However my desktop is not a tablet and as such Win 8 just plain sucks on it. The early previews and beta's of were more usable than this.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

*of Vista - damn no edit, last sentence.

 

[heatlesssun]

Then we just have to agree to disagree. The users that I work with every day couldn't care less about any of those features. That is mostly because if the computer doesn't just work, they don't want to even be bothered trying to figure out why. They aren't going to care about the ability to add in another hard drive and convert to a raid, they aren't going to care about syncing across multiple machines, they don't care about cloud storage or file copying. These are "Average" users, which are the overwhelming majority of users. The only immediate benefit they see is out of the box security and possibly battery life if that actually makes it to them after OEMs load the machines down with crapware.

Power users like us who care about these specific things are in the minority.[/QUOTE]


You're trying to have it both ways. The list I pointed out isn't everything and even you have to admit the potential of better battery life and then pointing out crapware which has nothing to with Windows, just remove it. Sure, there's going to be some that won't like any change but there's going to be millions that will benefit and enjoy Windows 8. You don't have to be a power user to good cloud integration of making sure photos and videos don't get lost.

If that were true, I would still be using XP. However I embrace change that improves things, not change for the sake of change.

Even if you don't like Windows 8 this it's not change for the sake of change. It's change for the sake of allowing Windows to operate well on millions more devices that it doesn't currently.

 

[Adam.C]

If that were true, I would still be using XP. However I embrace change that improves things, not change for the sake of change. Furthermore I am not knocking Win 8 for these changes, many of them I like. I am arguing that they are not major changes. Now if I want to knock Win 8 I can just point out the fact that it was designed for touch devices and works horribly on a regular PC and the Metro UI is a major factor behind that. As for the non mobile device features of win 8, very little of it is a major change. Some minor improvements that make power users lives easier for sure, but generally countered by all the crap associated with it. Have you tried the Dev preview? I have, and it is freaking terrible compared to win 7. I imagine it will be incredibly good on tablets and I plan on trying it out when given the chance. However my desktop is not a tablet and as such Win 8 just plain sucks on it. The early previews and beta's of were more usable than this.

I have read your last few post and agree with you. I installed the Dev preview and it blows. Quickly uninstalled. The only thing I liked was the dual boot screen lol.