Windows 8 Sales Rate Higher Than Windows 7

Stiletto said:
Which would constitute approximately what percent of communications these days? Is it maybe 1%?



As a computer science college grad, I can tell you that I typed many, many, MANY more term papers than I wrote out math tests. You're arguing for the resurgence of an inaccurate, imprecise, inefficient form of printing from the past(which is still better expressed on non-digital formats) while denigrating the very technologies that made communication fast, easy, and efficient.

I find myself continually astonished at the levels of irony you will employ to make the claim that current technology sucks because it works, but new technology will be even better because it will be just like what current technology replaced. :eek:
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If you want to blame someone about the "resurgence of an inaccurate, imprecise, inefficient form of printing from the past" talk to Samsung, maybe, you can convince them to remove the pens from their Galaxy Note devices, I'm sure the people that bought millions of those things will love having the pen technology removed since it's from the past.

Nothing you're saying here negates what I've said. Input methods are not mutually exclusive and for those that find usefulness in input methods you don't, it's an option that might work for them as it does for me and a lot of other folks that have pen enabled devices these days, though most of those at this point are oddly enough Android devices.
 
Piotrsama said:
Don't know for sure, but in China, Japan, arabic countries... probably a lot.
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Except that those countries have had keyboards for years with all their characters for use in their native languages, including many different dialects. We even have keyboards now that can switch between language sets at the touch of a button.

My point is that the vast majority of communications will use printing sets that have been available for many years on standard input devices. Saying we're now going to switch over to a process that we phased out precisely because it was unreliable in terms of readability ranks right up there with saying we're going to switch over to electric cars without charging stations plentifully supplied through our national infrastructure. There is a serious foresight deficiency in the tech community.
 
Stiletto said:
Except that those countries have had keyboards for years with all their characters for use in their native languages, including many different dialects. We even have keyboards now that can switch between language sets at the touch of a button.

My point is that the vast majority of communications will use printing sets that have been available for many years on standard input devices. Saying we're now going to switch over to a process that we phased out precisely because it was unreliable in terms of readability ranks right up there with saying we're going to switch over to electric cars without charging stations plentifully supplied through our national infrastructure. There is a serious foresight deficiency in the tech community.
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Can we at least agree that neither touch/pens OR keyboards/mice are the future ... they are both the past ... until we get voice and gestures ... THOSE will be the future interfaces ;)
 
heatlesssun said:
If you want to blame someone about the "resurgence of an inaccurate, imprecise, inefficient form of printing from the past" talk to Samsung, maybe, you can convince them to remove the pens from their Galaxy Note devices, I'm sure the people that bought millions of those things will love having the pen technology removed since it's from the past.
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Who is talking about eliminating the concept? I'm simply opposing the push to make the concept the new standard. Again...you talk all about zero sum games, while telling anyone who doesn't like Windows 8 that they hate change, or telling anyone who doesn't like touch-writing on digital devices that they want it removed from every device. Keep heaping on the irony. It's quite amusing.

Nothing you're saying here negates what I've said. Input methods are not mutually exclusive and for those that find usefulness in input methods you don't, it's an option that might work for them as it does for me and a lot of other folks that have pen enabled devices these days, though most of those at this point are oddly enough Android devices.
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I'm not saying they're mutually exclusive. For the last few weeks you've been talking about how outdated and useless keyboards and mice are, and talking about how touch-based input is the way of the future. You're the one saying one must die so that the other can rise.

You are a walking contradiction, dude. :cool:
 
kbrickley said:
Can we at least agree that neither touch/pens OR keyboards/mice are the future ... they are both the past ... until we get voice and gestures ... THOSE will be the future interfaces ;)
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6_9MCIzKyUk.gif


God forbid.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
People bitch about the ribbon, because it SUCKS. Almost everyone I know that has used '03 hates it.
.
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Well, science has proven you wrong. The ribbon looks better, is more efficient, and takes up no more space than the menu strip. I am sorry but you are just wrong. As for everyone you know....well I will keep that comment to myself.
 
chinesepiratefood said:
Well, science has proven you wrong. The ribbon looks better, is more efficient, and takes up no more space than the menu strip. I am sorry but you are just wrong. As for everyone you know....well I will keep that comment to myself.
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How can science prove an opinion of something wrong? I am sorry, but you are just wrong.
 
SkribbelKat said:
As people already have said, you don't have to worry about how heavy it is when you can put it down on a table to type out stuff on it. There's pretty much flat surfaces everwhere so yeah...weight is only an issue if you feel like you have to carry your computer everywhere and look kinda silly doing it when anyone else is going to reach into a pocket to take out a phone that they're already carrying. :p
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Well then there are lot of silly iPad users out there, IO see tons of people carrying them all over. And that phone is great until you might actually want to do something productive. If you want to confine yourself to flat surfaces that are everywhere, though for some reason conspicuously absent on buses and cars and subways, then that's cool, you have a choice. Some people want something more mobile than that. Again, this is NOT a zero sum situation.

SkribbelKat said:
As for noise, the D620 is very quiet even when placed under extreme duress. The fan doesn't even run when the system is idle and heat is just not a big deal if you can put your computer down on one of those always available flat surfaces that humans seem to build everywhere they go. So yeah, I can say lots of stuff about a D620 including the fact that even the lowest end versions are TONS faster than a tablet despite the fact that it came out when Windows XP was still for sale on new PCs.
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But you're still talking about a device that's almost twice as heavy even with the 500 in a dock, that does have a fan and does generate more heat and isn't silent and doesn't have 10 hours of battery life and isn't as mobile.

If these things are on no use then really, people say I'm the Microsoft sales guy, they should hire someone like you to go convince everyone that their tablets are crap and they should all be sporting D620s. ;)
 
kbrickley said:
until we get voice and gestures ... THOSE will be the future interfaces ;)
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Seriously, voice as a future interface. Maybe for home computing, but it is out of question elsewhere. Imagine using that interface in cubicles in office...
 
chinesepiratefood said:
That is a good point...if he wants to hate something that is better in every measurable category then I guess he is free to do so.
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Please feel free to link us to the scientific study that researched all measurable categories of the Office 2003 ribbon.
 
In a world where the human mind is incapable of subjective interpretation, I'm sure the ribbon consistently reigns supreme.

In the real world...
 
Stiletto said:
6_9MCIzKyUk.gif


God forbid.
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Now who is hanging onto the past ... I don't buy into heatlesssun's touch and pen arguments but Minority Report is going to be the future of computing most likely ... not the touch screens we have now or the keyboards/mice ... as you said, technology needs to move forward and any sort of tactile interface is holding onto the past ... technology isn't quite there yet for the voice and gesture future but THAT will be the future most assuredly ... as Scotty so eloquently put it, "Computer ... COMPUTER ... ah, keyboards, how quaint" :p
 
kbrickley said:
Now who is hanging onto the past ... I don't buy into heatlesssun's touch and pen arguments but Minority Report is going to be the future of computing most likely ... not the touch screens we have now or the keyboards/mice ... as you said, technology needs to move forward and any sort of tactile interface is holding onto the past ... technology isn't quite there yet for the voice and gesture future but THAT will be the future most assuredly ... as Scotty so eloquently put it, "Computer ... COMPUTER ... ah, keyboards, how quaint" :p
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Again...if you see the future as consisting of people acting like maestros for eight hours a day in a cubicle, that's a future of people who are either very tired, or who have arm, back, and shoulder strength that would put Schwarzenegger to shame.
 
faugusztin said:
Seriously, voice as a future interface. Maybe for home computing, but it is out of question elsewhere. Imagine using that interface in cubicles in office...
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I don't think any of us can visualize what cubicles will look like 10 years from now ... they might all be soundproof pods where you spend your entire day interfacing with computers and other people around the world ... I agree that today they are not an option but the Minority report version of the future is more likely ... tactile interfaces are much more limited than if you could just describe what you wanted ... we will just have to wait until we actually get to the undiscovered country ;)
 
Well it was only $15... I still have yet to install it on anything though. But since I read that it does handle computer resources better, I do want to at least give it a try on my virtual machine workstation...
 
kbrickley said:
I don't think any of us can visualize what cubicles will look like 10 years from now ... they might all be soundproof pods where you spend your entire day interfacing with computers and other people around the world ... I agree that today they are not an option but the Minority report version of the future is more likely ... tactile interfaces are much more limited than if you could just describe what you wanted ... we will just have to wait until we actually get to the undiscovered country ;)
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Like this?
 
Funny since MS likes to change licensing when they release new OS, so you buy a computer with windows 7 on it, most likely it has a windows 8 license.
 
Stiletto said:
Again...if you see the future as consisting of people acting like maestros for eight hours a day in a cubicle, that's a future of people who are either very tired, or who have arm, back, and shoulder strength that would put Schwarzenegger to shame.
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depends how far out you want to look ... there is still a loss in productivity in trying to convert your thoughts into tactile motion ... if we want maximum productivity in the future then voice will be key ... it won't be next year and it might not even be 5 years from now but at some point it will come ... technology forces change and we have not reached the limits of our technology yet :cool: ...

who can say what the cubicle of the future will be like ... they might all be soundproof pods where you spend your entire day interfacing with computers and people all over the world ... I think that future is far more likely than people sitting in the keyboard driven offices of today ... business is always searching for ways to maximize efficiency and that would do it ;)
 
Stiletto said:
Who is talking about eliminating the concept? I'm simply opposing the push to make the concept the new standard. Again...you talk all about zero sum games, while telling anyone who doesn't like Windows 8 that they hate change, or telling anyone who doesn't like touch-writing on digital devices that they want it removed from every device. Keep heaping on the irony. It's quite amusing.
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A lot of Windows 8 opponents do bring up the subject of the UI changing this drastically after 20 years, there's certainly some resistance to the change regardless of the technical merits of the change, or lack thereof.

However, on the subject of pens, this actually isn't a change to Windows, that technology has been in Windows for the last decade and predates iOS and Android by a good many years.

Stiletto said:
I'm not saying they're mutually exclusive. For the last few weeks you've been talking about how outdated and useless keyboards and mice are, and talking about how touch-based input is the way of the future. You're the one saying one must die so that the other can rise.

You are a walking contradiction, dude. :cool:
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You call me a walking contradiction, yet I have for years stated the same position on alternative forms of input dating back to the Windows XP for Tablet PC Edition. In all those years I've NEVER said that keyboards and mice are useless or outdated. Not once, EVER in a decade have I said this. My view on this has been perfectly concise. Use the input method that fits the need of the situation. Period. I've never said anything else. If you don't want or need a pen, don't use one. That technology is in Windows 7, most people never used it and it didn't interfere with keyboard or mouse operation. It certainly hasn't interfered with my ability to use Windows 8 with keyboards and mice which I do daily.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I really hate marketing fud like this. I laugh at just how fast the proponents were to jump on this garbage and say "See we told you win 8 was awesome!". How about a real comparison of say Gross revenue given that at minimum win 7 was 3 times more expensive and still is for that matter. I bet the numbers looks quite a bit different when you do apples to apples.
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That would mean then that Linux on the desktop must suck, eh? :rolleyes: After all, it is "free" and cannot even touch windows on the desktop for shear numbers.
 
heatlesssun said:
However, on the subject of pens, this actually isn't a change to Windows, that technology has been in Windows for the last decade and predates iOS and Android by a good many years.
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Yes it does, and therein a question appears that I have asked you before, and you have never answered:

Why can't there be a Windows 8 Tablet Edition(with Metro), and a Windows 8...when there was a Windows XP Tablet Edition, and a Windows XP? Why must everyone use this not-optimized-for-not-tablets interface?
 
Stiletto said:
Don't ever change, dude.
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One can effectively run Office 2013 via touch and do quite a lot, edit text, formatting, etc. I'm not saying that it would be as effective as using a mouse and keyboard at a desk, I'm simply pointing it is an option if one is in a squeeze and needed to do something wherever they may be. It certainly would be much more flexible and capable than using a phone in similar situations.
 
heatlesssun said:
One can effectively run Office 2013 via touch and do quite a lot, edit text, formatting, etc. I'm not saying that it would be as effective as using a mouse and keyboard at a desk, I'm simply pointing it is an option if one is in a squeeze and needed to do something wherever they may be. It certainly would be much more flexible and capable than using a phone in similar situations.
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Tell me how the touch-technology of phones is so inferior to the touch-technology of tablets.

Especially with "phablets" coming out in a matter of weeks.
 
Stiletto said:
Yes it does, and therein a question appears that I have asked you before, and you have never answered:

Why can't there be a Windows 8 Tablet Edition(with Metro), and a Windows 8...when there was a Windows XP Tablet Edition, and a Windows XP? Why must everyone use this not-optimized-for-not-tablets interface?
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If you have asked it I didn't see it. First a little history. Starting with Vista, all the capabilities of Tablet PC and Media Center editions were rolled into base SKUs of the product. So starting with Vista tablets and convertibles there were no specific tablet versions of Windows, it was all one base product. Likewise with Windows 7, the same OS that was on tablets and convertibles was on desktops. So Windows 8 from a packaging standpoint is no different from 7 when it comes to one OS and UI for both desktops and tablets.

Obviously this is a controversial decision and one that does seem to ignore the history of Windows tablets to date as the one size fits all hasn't worked well, at least when that one size was a desktop UI on a tablet. But touch from Microsoft's perspective is expected to be the norm and not the exception in the PC world going forward.

Again, I've never felt or said that touch or pen replaces traditional input methods, but being able to pick up my tablet that I was using a mouse and keyboard with one second running desktop apps and the next second start using as a tablet, I think that has a lot potential to be successful because it's such a flexible model. No constraints on input devices and one base UI to make it all work. One may disagree with the hybrid concept but this is a logical and rational decision though it may be unsuccessful commercially.
 
heatlesssun said:
Well then there are lot of silly iPad users out there, IO see tons of people carrying them all over. And that phone is great until you might actually want to do something productive. If you want to confine yourself to flat surfaces that are everywhere, though for some reason conspicuously absent on buses and cars and subways, then that's cool, you have a choice. Some people want something more mobile than that. Again, this is NOT a zero sum situation.
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People who want mobile computing generally have a phone in their pocket with just as much functionality as a tablet and the ability to make calls or send text messages. People who want to do something productive are unlikely to find any advantages on a Windows tablet over a laptop unless they carry a keyboard to make their tablet into a *gasp* Compaq Presario CQ57 that costs more and has a smaller, less useful screen.

But you're still talking about a device that's almost twice as heavy even with the 500 in a dock, that does have a fan and does generate more heat and isn't silent and doesn't have 10 hours of battery life and isn't as mobile.

If these things are on no use then really, people say I'm the Microsoft sales guy, they should hire someone like you to go convince everyone that their tablets are crap and they should all be sporting D620s. ;)
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The D620 will get 13 hours with an extended main battery and a bay battery and it still has a higher percentage of internal space dedicated to circuit boards versus the Surface RT which is basically all battery and no internals. The Surface RT, by ratio alone, should have much better battery life than a D620 Latitude -- which it doesn't and that only adds insult to the fact that its a lot slower and less capable. Also, I don't accuse devices of being "crap" (tablet or otherwise) because I take an objective, enlightened view that considers capabilities and functionality in a sensible, practical manner rather than letting my feelings flavor the opinions I form.

If you want fast and light with great battery life, I recommend a Palm m125. It can last a month on two AAA batteries, is far lighter than this silly Samsung you keep bragging to us about in an effort to find approval from others for your purchase and it's lots faster opening and closing programs. There's even an Office suite available called QuickOffice which understands common MS Office formats. It's so awesome that you don't even need a battery charger for it. Just carry an extra set of AAA batteries and swap them to use it for another month!
 
Stiletto said:
Tell me how the touch-technology of phones is so inferior to the touch-technology of tablets.

Especially with "phablets" coming out in a matter of weeks.
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That phone isn't natively running the full desktop version of a touch enabled version of Office if we're comparing that phone to a Windows 8 tablet.
 
heatlesssun said:
That phone isn't natively running the full desktop version of a touch enabled version of Office if we're comparing that phone to a Windows 8 tablet.
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Who cares? There are office suites for phones that can open and edit Office files just fine. The only thing that something like Kingsoft Office doesn't do is OneNote and Sharepoint. OneNote is pretty much not used by anyone and Sharepoint is something you can mess with through the web browser
 
heatlesssun said:
That phone isn't natively running the full desktop version of a touch enabled version of Office if we're comparing that phone to a Windows 8 tablet.
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So what you're saying is that scaled-down versions of desktop environments suck?

I agree! :D
 
SkribbelKat said:
People who want mobile computing generally have a phone in their pocket with just as much functionality as a tablet and the ability to make calls or send text messages. People who want to do something productive are unlikely to find any advantages on a Windows tablet over a laptop unless they carry a keyboard to make their tablet into a *gasp* Compaq Presario CQ57 that costs more and has a smaller, less useful screen.
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It would depend on the devices in question. For a device the size of the 500T, the onscreen keyboard is very large, it's essentially the size of a 10" netbook keyboard and while not as good as physical keyboard a lot of people can easily be proficient with it.

SkribbelKat said:
The D620 will get 13 hours with an extended main battery and a bay battery and it still has a higher percentage of internal space dedicated to circuit boards versus the Surface RT which is basically all battery and no internals. The Surface RT, by ratio alone, should have much better battery life than a D620 Latitude -- which it doesn't and that only adds insult to the fact that its a lot slower and less capable. Also, I don't accuse devices of being "crap" (tablet or otherwise) because I take an objective, enlightened view that considers capabilities and functionality in a sensible, practical manner rather than letting my feelings flavor the opinions I form.
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I wasn't talking about the Surface RT. And it does seem that you aren't as objective as you're saying, especially when you basically post in these threads continuously about technology for which you have not much positive to say about and don't even use.


SkribbelKat said:
If you want fast and light with great battery life, I recommend a Palm m125. It can last a month on two AAA batteries, is far lighter than this silly Samsung you keep bragging to us about in an effort to find approval from others for your purchase and it's lots faster opening and closing programs. There's even an Office suite available called QuickOffice which understands common MS Office formats. It's so awesome that you don't even need a battery charger for it. Just carry an extra set of AAA batteries and swap them to use it for another month!
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LOL! First of all, I don't give a flip about the approval of people around here, I've been buying and using Windows tablets and convertibles for a decade now. And at least I actually talk about things I've actually used in practical terms, again another Windows 8 thread you spam with nothing but comments about ancient devices that nobody wants these days.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Who cares? There are office suites for phones that can open and edit Office files just fine. The only thing that something like Kingsoft Office doesn't do is OneNote and Sharepoint. OneNote is pretty much not used by anyone and Sharepoint is something you can mess with through the web browser
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Do they run macros or add-ins? Can they handle huge files?
 
SkribbelKat said:
Who cares? There are office suites for phones that can open and edit Office files just fine. The only thing that something like Kingsoft Office doesn't do is OneNote and Sharepoint. OneNote is pretty much not used by anyone and Sharepoint is something you can mess with through the web browser
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/uses one note

argument invalid :p

but I bet a one note ap will be available for free for win 8 phone/rt since it is for everything else
 
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