Windows 8 Sales Rate Higher Than Windows 7

heatlesssun said:
I'm sitting here with this Samsung 500, a damned Clovertrail Atom, hooked to an external monitor 1920x1200 monitor, running Metro IE, desktop IE, OneNote and Visual Studio for Windows 8 and writing this post with a pen on the tablet while watching Netflix on the external monitor. Say what you want to about Windows 8 but there's nothing lowest common denominator about it.
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OMG! You mean your computer can run a graphical interface, an Office application, a compiler, AND accept input for a web browser while playing a video with two displays at once?! That's so impressive that I'm pretty sure a five year old Dell Latitude D620 with a GMA 950 and a Core2 CPU could do the same thing. It's cool that your new tablet is able to compete with an ancient laptop. (Oh, and with an extended battery and a modular bay battery, the D620 can deliver about 10 hours of light usage with WiFi turned on.)
 
Don't know how many times I have to repeat it. Last time I checked, my desktop is not a tablet. My 27" monitor is not a touch screen. It requires a keyboard and mouse to operate. So I'll keep on using W7. There will be no eggs on my face.

However, that is just me. This is America. Everyone has a choice. Use W8 if you like it better.
 
SkribbelKat said:
OMG! You mean your computer can run a graphical interface, an Office application, a compiler, AND accept input for a web browser while playing a video with two displays at once?! That's so impressive that I'm pretty sure a five year old Dell Latitude D620 with a GMA 950 and a Core2 CPU could do the same thing. It's cool that your new tablet is able to compete with an ancient laptop. (Oh, and with an extended battery and a modular bay battery, the D620 can deliver about 10 hours of light usage with WiFi turned on.)
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Shhh, Heaty thinks that he's discovered something new and innovative! You're going to spoil his joy if you keep that up. It's humorous to read his rave reviews that are packed with pure wonderment.

It's like seeing a kid 'discover' that toilets flush. :D
 
caddys83 said:
lol I bought Windows 8 Pro OEM on Newegg. I was pissed when it didnt came in a DVD case. The disk was was in a flimsy cardboard envelope :mad:
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? OEM never comes in a nice retail sorta box or anything it's just bare.
 
SkribbelKat said:
OMG! You mean your computer can run a graphical interface, an Office application, a compiler, AND accept input for a web browser while playing a video with two displays at once?! That's so impressive that I'm pretty sure a five year old Dell Latitude D620 with a GMA 950 and a Core2 CPU could do the same thing. It's cool that your new tablet is able to compete with an ancient laptop. (Oh, and with an extended battery and a modular bay battery, the D620 can deliver about 10 hours of light usage with WiFi turned on.)
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Sorry if I said anything mean in the past, but today I am in full agreement with you Skribbel. I can do all that with my e-450 and It has a keyboard to. I could not imagine having to have a computer figure out my hand writing instead of just typing a post, which is insanely faster.
 
SkribbelKat said:
OMG! You mean your computer can run a graphical interface, an Office application, a compiler, AND accept input for a web browser while playing a video with two displays at once?! That's so impressive that I'm pretty sure a five year old Dell Latitude D620 with a GMA 950 and a Core2 CPU could do the same thing. It's cool that your new tablet is able to compete with an ancient laptop. (Oh, and with an extended battery and a modular bay battery, the D620 can deliver about 10 hours of light usage with WiFi turned on.)
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DrDoug said:
Shhh, Heaty thinks that he's discovered something new and innovative! You're going to spoil his joy if you keep that up. It's humorous to read his rave reviews that are packed with pure wonderment.

It's like seeing a kid 'discover' that toilets flush. :D
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The Samsung 500T weighs 1.68 lbs. just a little under 4 oz. heavier than the newest retina iPad and just .02" of an inch thicker while running a full desktop OS and very comparable battery life. No fans, very little heat even when stressed and zero noise. Things that you can't say about Dell Latitude D620.

It's like you guys have been living under a rock. Weight, thickness and power consumption are much bigger driving factors in computing devices these days than top line performance. Otherwise there'd have been no netbooks, no tablets and no ultrabooks.
 
JosiahBradley said:
I could not imagine having to have a computer figure out my hand writing instead of just typing a post, which is insanely faster.
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You'd be surprised just how accurate it is. And you can't type in situations where it's a breeze to write, and try typing mathematical and scientific notation. And the 500 can be used just like any clamshell notebook with the keyboard dock which also adds about another several more hours of battery life.
 
heatlesssun said:
The Samsung 500T weighs 1.68 lbs. just a little under 4 oz. heavier than the newest retina iPad and just .02" of an inch thicker while running a full desktop OS and very comparable battery life. No fans, very little heat even when stressed and zero noise. Things that you can't say about Dell Latitude D620.

It's like you guys have been living under a rock. Weight, thickness and power consumption are much bigger driving factors in computing devices these days than top line performance. Otherwise there'd have been no netbooks, no tablets and no ultrabooks.
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In other words idiots buy the shiny touchscreen with a gimped processor and marvel at how they now have the capability of the Pentium D they had in 2005. Fantastic. Now if they just wait another 7 years they might have today's experience. And, actually, that's not even fair then. The Pentium D lineup was more powerful and versatile.
 
Stiletto said:
1. It's being sold as low as $15, and Windows 7 has NEVER been that cheap. You can barely get W7 for under $100. When the price points are even, the comparison is valid..
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I paid $29 for my version of windows 7 professional through a digital river deal that many many other H'ers was able to get as well. MS always has deals initially. This is a valid comparison. People don't use money on something that they don't like. If you don't like it, then you won't pay anything for it, and quoting from some H win8 haters, "i wouldn't use it even if they paid me $39.".

jolli said:
I installed Windows 7 from an upgrade disc several times.

Install ---> Don't Activate ---> Install again ---> Activate

Worked like a charm even on fresh drives.
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This definitely works as I had an official MS tech tell me to do a very similar process to get my upgrade key activated properly after a fresh install on a new ssd drive.
 
blitzkommando said:
In other words idiots buy the shiny touchscreen with a gimped processor and marvel at how they now have the capability of the Pentium D they had in 2005. Fantastic. Now if they just wait another 7 years they might have today's experience. And, actually, that's not even fair then. The Pentium D lineup was more powerful and versatile.
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Yeah, I forgot about all of the Pentium D designs back in 2005 that weight a pound and half with no fans and little heat that got 10 hours of battery life. Amazing how many of you focus on only top line performance when there are a LOT of other considerations these days in computing devices.
 
I skipped 7 and preordered 8. Vista Ultimate was fine for me. The only thing I really miss in 7 is trim and honestly I've been experiencing fine performance without it. Admittedly I don't create/delete a high volume of data/files.

There's enough performance gains and nice little improvements in 8 (and I get trim since I'm coming from Vista) on the desktop that I'm switching. I can't imagine it will take long to get used to the Modern interface. I've spent maybe 30 minutes with it doing some basic IE 10 testing at work and while different it doesn't seem BAD.
 
the numbers of windows 8 sell might have been higher due to the fact lot of people has exploited it with that microsoft promotion of $15 upgrade, not to mention lots of other companies are offering it for less than $30, considering W7 was $70 at cheapest on release, $15 isn't much of money. beside there are lots of people who will actually just upgrade cause it's new, more now than before as lot more people uses PC/laptops now days than they were at launch of windows 7.
 
heatlesssun said:
Windows 8 is VASTLY superior to prior versions of Windows on tablets and the hardware is likewise. Got an Atom based Samsung 500T and it is remarkable how much better this device runs compared to the ill fated HP Slate from two years ago. A full x86 Windows PC, at 1.65 lbs. without the keyboard, five touch points, Wacom pen digitizer, an updated Office that's decently touch enabled and an app store growing daily with more and more touch capable apps.
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Funny, the discussion was the direction of hardware. Particularly mixing touch with a keyboard on a PC.

And for a Tablet, Windows 8 may be 'vastly superior' than WIndows 7. But in that case, I was talking about Android and Apple with their keyboards. Windows 8 on a tablet is at best, on par, with those. Keyboards aren't a big player. Every try a combo? I have. The failure to take off in a big way previously is inherently ergonomic, related to switching extensively between touch and the keyboard.

I guarantee you, 6 mo. from now countless Surface tablet keyboards will be available cheap on ebay. If it wasn't useful as a cover, I'd expect people would give them away.

As for the case of tablet PCs, though, I thought that Launching an application was just a tiny part of running a PC and therefore people complaining about the new Windows 8 interface were blowing things out of proportion. I guess launching an application is now not trivial? In fact, I did some serious all-in-one touchscreen shopping a few years ago looking for a PC for my mother. To imply Windows 7 was somehow so hobbled that it would stunt the idea it just wrong.

As for touch capable apps, maybe for the tablets but successful ones will nearly all be 100% touch. And maybe casual & kids games on PC's. As for touch capable full fledged PC applications that leverage both, those have been capable for years. If it was so great, a slight clunkiness in launching one wouldn't have held them back.

I have no doubt people will flip their PC in tablet mode when they aren't seriously using it, and sitting around doing something else. Its probably ok for launching media and having calender or news alerts, if you already have the hardware. But the successful apps will be 100% touch usable. And the activities will be mostly be something you can't do in most workplaces. It will happen more in the home. And in home, a tablet will be better because you can take it with you wherever.

Sure, developers and hardware makers on on board with the WIndows 8 launch frenzy with hybrid form factors because with the Black Friday Sales Season, that's a huge opportunity that can't be missed. Toss in Microsoft's own marketing push to that as well. Think its an accident it launched with about 3-4 weeks before Black Friday? They are hoping people leap before they look because of the holidays. Pre-Holiday sales isn't the correct metric to judge Windows 8 and its associated hardware. Its post Holiday regret and return lines that is the correct metric to watch.

In short, the lack of Tiles is not responsible for these hybrid interfaces not taking off previously.
 
heatlesssun said:
The Samsung 500T weighs 1.68 lbs. just a little under 4 oz. heavier than the newest retina iPad and just .02" of an inch thicker while running a full desktop OS and very comparable battery life. No fans, very little heat even when stressed and zero noise. Things that you can't say about Dell Latitude D620.
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The laptop doesn't need to be lifted or held while using it, and the effort of using a mouse and keyboard is less physical strain than the writing motions you're making in order to avoid using tested-and-true input devices.

Congratulations. Your item is lighter, and more tiring to use. Before long, you'll be doing everything with a computer the size of an IPod Nano, waving your arms like a maestro, and you'll be exhausted after a half hour.
 
jpm100 said:
In short, the lack of Tiles is not responsible for these hybrid interfaces not taking off previously.
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I've had about a dozen convertible Tablet PCs since 2002 and yes the UI was a huge part of Tablet PCs not doing well, though the early models were pen based and that works pretty well with Windows. But beyond the desktop UI, the hardware wasn't there either. Heavy, expensive, poor battery and bad thermals plagued Windows tablets and convertibles. We're just now getting good hardware on the x86 for Windows tablets. This Samsung 500T that I'm inking this post on right now. 1.68 lbs., 10 hours of battery life, almost the same thickness of the retina iPad. Little heat, no fan, no noise and the performance for an Atom is incredible, it's nothing like previous Atoms. If this kind of hardware existed in 2002 for Windows XP Tablet PC Edition it would have been a smash hit.

Bottom line with Windows 8, it is a hybrid OS and one can hate it for a month of Sundays it still runs desktop programs just like Windows 7, AutoCAD is AutoCAD, Photoshop is Photoshop. And on the mobile side touch browsing is touch browsing and Angry Birds is Angry Birds. And Tiles don't change this reality.
 
if you own desktop, laptop and a tablet then you buy 3 windows 8 for the price of one windows 7.
:D
 
Stiletto said:
The laptop doesn't need to be lifted or held while using it, and the effort of using a mouse and keyboard is less physical strain than the writing motions you're making in order to avoid using tested-and-true input devices.
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Weren't people using handwriting millennia before these tried and true input devices? Writing and drawing are natural forms of human expression that are powerful and aren't going away. This not a zero sum game. Input methods don't replace one another, they augment each other so that when one is impractical or not suited to the task others are available.

Stiletto said:
Congratulations. Your item is lighter, and more tiring to use. Before long, you'll be doing everything with a computer the size of an IPod Nano, waving your arms like a maestro, and you'll be exhausted after a half hour.
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It's simply matter of being able to use a tablet like a book or magazine or paper. One doesn't always have to use it like that, that's the whole point of windows hybrid devices.
 
I know Steve is just posting this as bait, but I can't help being sucked into it...
heatlesssun said:
Sales numbers won't matter to naysayers. Just look at how many people still bitch about the ribbon in Office and sales of it are better than ever. I think that Windows 8 has enough unique capabilities as a single OS to do well and that's it's not nearly as bad on the desktop as many claim. It does have a learning curve but I don't think that it's will be particularly high for most with proper training that isn't that time consuming.
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People bitch about the ribbon, because it SUCKS. Almost everyone I know that has used '03 hates it. People buy the latest version of Office, because it is A. the latest B. compatible with everything C. readily available. The average consumer is not going to go out of their way to buy '03 or know the difference between versions, so we are force fed Microsoft's inefficient GUI changes.

Windows 8 is no different. Of course sales are going to be higher, because all of the OEMs are going to be gobbling up Windows 8 to sell the "latest Microsoft operating system." Everyone already has Windows 7 so why would they be buying it? Sheesh.
 
DrDoug said:
Shhh, Heaty thinks that he's discovered something new and innovative! You're going to spoil his joy if you keep that up. It's humorous to read his rave reviews that are packed with pure wonderment.

It's like seeing a kid 'discover' that toilets flush. :D
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I don't know if I agree with some of his rave reviews of Win 8 since I haven't tried it yet ... since it doesn't offer compelling gaming options yet I can wait a little to upgrade ... however, I miss that sense of wonder in the PC crowd ;)

I think we have become a little jaded ... I miss the days when your processor was out of date almost the moment that you walked out the door of the store and that gaming required you to update your graphic card yearly or every two years at most ... I miss the days when technology was constantly throwing something new at us on the hardware front (better monitors, CDs, DVDs, soundcards, graphics accellerators, etc) :)

I am old enough I can remember the transitions to the different graphics resolutions from CGA on up ... I recently made the jump to 2560x1440 but outside of Windows and Office, most programs don't really make full use of that resolution ... I haven't really seen a compelling need to go multimonitor for gaming yet (although I do find my two monitors in the office extremely useful) :cool:

So I will give heatlesssun a hearty thumbs up, if for no other reason that he actually seems to get full hearted enjoyment from his computing ... three cheers for the glass half full crowd instead of the glass half empty ones :p
 
heatlesssun said:
Weren't people using handwriting millennia before these tried and true input devices?
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So now you're defending "new and improved" technology by comparing it to what primitive civilizations did? That's fucking awesome. Dude, you just took irony to new heights.

And yeah...we used to use handwriting. Then we invented word processors and keyboards, and few people write anymore on anything bigger than a Post-It Note or a signature line.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
People bitch about the ribbon, because it SUCKS. Almost everyone I know that has used '03 hates it.
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How dare you form your own opinon! You must follow the glorious corperations line! Do you fear the change?!?! Seeing the change, seeing it's no better than what came before but is just a change to make it look physically different to make you buy it again even though there's no actual background difference is not a valid excuse! :eek:

Companies seem to be stuck in this innovationless place as they've run out of ideas. So instead they consign themselves to making each iteration different by lumping something crap on the front end. Hey it's the same program with the same features but I can control it with my feet! Moutherfucking innovation! Hey people still using their hands, you fear the change! Use your feet, it takes 3 times as long and isn't good outside, but you can now scratch your face and your genitals while watching media! ! :eek:
 
DeathPrincess said:
How dare you form your own opinon! You must follow the glorious corperations line! Do you fear the change?!?! Seeing the change, seeing it's no better than what came before but is just a change to make it look physically different to make you buy it again even though there's no actual background difference is not a valid excuse! :eek:

Companies seem to be stuck in this innovationless place as they've run out of ideas. So instead they consign themselves to making each iteration different by lumping something crap on the front end. Hey it's the same program with the same features but I can control it with my feet! Moutherfucking innovation! Hey people still using their hands, you fear the change! Use your feet, it takes 3 times as long and isn't good outside, but you can now scratch your face and your genitals while watching media! ! :eek:
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I guess the ribbon is one of those YMMV things ... I didn't like it when it first came out but after using it for awhile it actually is easier than the older menus (for me at least ;) )... but that is probably dependent on what you do in Excel and Word and Powerpoint (the main apps I have used the ribbon for) ... Outlook is a little more convoluted but I don't have as much experience there as I only recently switched the new outlook ... it might get better as I use it more :cool:
 
kbrickley said:
I guess the ribbon is one of those YMMV things ... I didn't like it when it first came out but after using it for awhile it actually is easier than the older menus (for me at least ;) )... but that is probably dependent on what you do in Excel and Word and Powerpoint (the main apps I have used the ribbon for) ... Outlook is a little more convoluted but I don't have as much experience there as I only recently switched the new outlook ... it might get better as I use it more :cool:
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As far as ribbon things go, the only program I don't/didn't like the ribbon in was Excel. Word, PowerPoint, and OneNote have been great with it. The file explorer in Windows 8 is a big plus from my usage.
 
kbrickley said:
I guess the ribbon is one of those YMMV things ... I didn't like it when it first came out but after using it for awhile it actually is easier than the older menus (for me at least ;) )... but that is probably dependent on what you do in Excel and Word and Powerpoint (the main apps I have used the ribbon for) ... Outlook is a little more convoluted but I don't have as much experience there as I only recently switched the new outlook ... it might get better as I use it more :cool:
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I don't mind the ribbon, it's nice having the most often used things there, though it does kind of suck when the stuff you want isn't there, or it's in some odd position for some reason. But it's not a deal breaker.

I don't think i'd not buy something because of the ribbon. But like i said it does seem like one of those "features" they use to make something seem new when it's just the same old stuff. I have Word 2007 and 2010...the actual difference between them is...not exactly sure other than you can make the theme black in 2010...and I think 2010 has more web sharing/cloud-y stuff (that I don't use). Word and other programs seem to have gotten to a point where they don't have many ideas of what to add so they seem to just add fluff to make people upgrade, but you don't really have to upgrade, like with Windows 8. :D
 
DeathPrincess said:
I don't mind the ribbon, it's nice having the most often used things there, though it does kind of suck when the stuff you want isn't there, or it's in some odd position for some reason. But it's not a deal breaker.

I don't think i'd not buy something because of the ribbon. But like i said it does seem like one of those "features" they use to make something seem new when it's just the same old stuff. I have Word 2007 and 2010...the actual difference between them is...not exactly sure other than you can make the theme black in 2010...and I think 2010 has more web sharing/cloud-y stuff (that I don't use). Word and other programs seem to have gotten to a point where they don't have many ideas of what to add so they seem to just add fluff to make people upgrade, but you don't really have to upgrade, like with Windows 8. :D
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I would buy into this argument whole heartedly ... the jump from 2003 to 2007 was significant for me, not just because of the ribbon but because of new features in Excel primarily (getting more than 256 columns and more than 65000 rows in a spreadsheet was a Godsend, for others that may not have even registered) ... I wish they were willing to canibalize their other franchises and combine Word and Publisher ... THAT would be a significant upgrade for Word to give it true desktop publishing capabilities ... or enhance the drawing capabilities in Word so I don't need other vector based programs to create more complex diagrams ... I do wish they would make a paradigm shift in capabilities, not just interface for the desktop programs ;)
 
THOMO said:
Said this weeks ago. Only old people and dummies will avoid W8 :).
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:p ... I think it is too early to determine who will "avoid" W8 ;) ... I am old enough where I can pick and choose where I will be an early adopter ... right now W8 doesn't force that upgrade at launch for me ... later on there may be a compelling reason to switch before Windows 9 launches (I might buy a Surface Pro or they might release some exotic gaming functionality) but for now I can let other folks reap the benefits and help them debug the release ... it will still be there when it is time for me to upgrade :D
 
DrDoug said:
Shhh, Heaty thinks that he's discovered something new and innovative! You're going to spoil his joy if you keep that up. It's humorous to read his rave reviews that are packed with pure wonderment.

It's like seeing a kid 'discover' that toilets flush. :D
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It's okay. He'll reason out in his own obsessed mind why his ill-informed opinion is correct for him and for everyone around him. It'll probably have something to do with his 20 years of experience using Windows 8 to create Office documents and compile stuff written in Visual Basic.

JosiahBradley said:
Sorry if I said anything mean in the past, but today I am in full agreement with you Skribbel. I can do all that with my e-450 and It has a keyboard to. I could not imagine having to have a computer figure out my hand writing instead of just typing a post, which is insanely faster.
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Aw gee, I don't take anything personally and I usually can't remember what happened beyond yesterday so you can say whatever you want. :) You make a good point though. AMD's E-series stuff is like a bajillion times more capable than even the new Atom.

heatlesssun said:
The Samsung 500T weighs 1.68 lbs. just a little under 4 oz. heavier than the newest retina iPad and just .02" of an inch thicker while running a full desktop OS and very comparable battery life. No fans, very little heat even when stressed and zero noise. Things that you can't say about Dell Latitude D620.

It's like you guys have been living under a rock. Weight, thickness and power consumption are much bigger driving factors in computing devices these days than top line performance. Otherwise there'd have been no netbooks, no tablets and no ultrabooks.
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As people already have said, you don't have to worry about how heavy it is when you can put it down on a table to type out stuff on it. There's pretty much flat surfaces everwhere so yeah...weight is only an issue if you feel like you have to carry your computer everywhere and look kinda silly doing it when anyone else is going to reach into a pocket to take out a phone that they're already carrying. :p

As for noise, the D620 is very quiet even when placed under extreme duress. The fan doesn't even run when the system is idle and heat is just not a big deal if you can put your computer down on one of those always available flat surfaces that humans seem to build everywhere they go. So yeah, I can say lots of stuff about a D620 including the fact that even the lowest end versions are TONS faster than a tablet despite the fact that it came out when Windows XP was still for sale on new PCs.
 
I upgraded to Vista right away because I wanted 64bit and MOAR Ram. I upgraded right away to Win7 because it had numerous incremental improvements over Vista. Win8 gives me no compelling reason to upgrade, therefore I must be old and hate change.
 
Stiletto said:
So now you're defending "new and improved" technology by comparing it to what primitive civilizations did? That's fucking awesome. Dude, you just took irony to new heights.

And yeah...we used to use handwriting. Then we invented word processors and keyboards, and few people write anymore on anything bigger than a Post-It Note or a signature line.
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We STILL use handwriting. Millions of people today will sketch, paint, write, draw, etc. It's just a natural form of human expression and is infinitely more expressive than typing on a keyboard. Keyboards are great for text input for a limited character set. They're not particularly good at the fast input of glyphs, non-alphabetic symbols or graphics.

I have no idea why you think that this zero sum and don't recognize that input methods are not mutually exclusive and that each has strengths. A student probably would not want to handwrite a term paper. They also probably wouldn't want to type a math test.
 
THOMO said:
Said this weeks ago. Only old people and dummies will avoid W8 :).
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To add to that list: people who see no particularly compelling reason to upgrade or who don't find considerable enough value in the prospect. Considering the extent of improvements to the desktop context in Windows 8, this is probably quite a large group of people. Some people will see the value in improvements like faster boot times, integrated ISO mounting and the improved file transfer dialog, but many won't. These people aren't "dummies". In fact, they're just being good consumers — they're evaluating the value proposition rather than jumping head-first into anything with a Microsoft logo on it.

One particularly bothersome aspect of upgrading Windows at the $40 price point is that you aren't getting a full install option for that money. People like me would rather not have to install Windows 7, activate it, then install Windows 8 every time we want to do clean installs on our machines, so $40 immediately becomes not less than $100. That's not an insignificant amount of money to most.
 
heatlesssun said:
We STILL use handwriting. Millions of people today will sketch, paint, write, draw, etc. It's just a natural form of human expression and is infinitely more expressive than typing on a keyboard. Keyboards are great for text input for a limited character set. They're not particularly good at the fast input of glyphs, non-alphabetic symbols or graphics.
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Which would constitute approximately what percent of communications these days? Is it maybe 1%?

I have no idea why you think that this zero sum and don't recognize that input methods are not mutually exclusive and that each has strengths. A student probably would not want to handwrite a term paper. They also probably wouldn't want to type a math test.
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As a computer science college grad, I can tell you that I typed many, many, MANY more term papers than I wrote out math tests. You're arguing for the resurgence of an inaccurate, imprecise, inefficient form of printing from the past(which is still better expressed on non-digital formats) while denigrating the very technologies that made communication fast, easy, and efficient.

I find myself continually astonished at the levels of irony you will employ to make the claim that current technology sucks because it works, but new technology will be even better because it will be just like what current technology replaced. :eek:
 
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