wtburnette
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Well said.
As an aside, I just read this article and thought I'd share:
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...r-launch-and-microsofts-cryptic-sales-figures
Also love the first post, from nategator
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Windows 8 Pricing Update
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
Well said.
As an aside, I just read this article and thought I'd share:
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...r-launch-and-microsofts-cryptic-sales-figures
Also love the first post, from nategator
SkribbelKat
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2012
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- 5,330
Well said.
As an aside, I just read this article and thought I'd share:
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...r-launch-and-microsofts-cryptic-sales-figures
Also love the first post, from nategator
One of the photos in the article is right out of Seattle Laptop's Craiglist ads! It's a little computer shop in Seattle that sells used hardware.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/sys/3551940383.html
It's going to take quite a lot of people to convince Microsoft to do something about the ModernUI and Start screen, probably more than the criticism that Vista got with driver issues and a few other things.
We probably all know by now a good idea what Microsoft is wanting to do. Other posters in either this thread or another consider Microsoft inching closer and closer to Apple's "walled garden" or unifying ecosystem. I highly doubt they'd be that successful right now, but maybe in time. However, Apple at least separates the two UIs for mobile and desktop very well, and ties them together with App Store (OSX, iOS), iTunes, and iCloud and several other pieces of software. Microsoft is getting there-- Windows Phone Marketplace, Windows 8 Store, Xbox Live (Arcade, Music, movies?), SkyDrive, Office365, Skype and I'm probably missing a few more.
At best, if we all know Microsoft as well as we do now after 20-plus years of OS development, the most we'll probably see are usability improvements. We've seen this between Windows 95/98 to XP, then from XP to Vista/7. Now, they just redid the whole thing coming into Windows 8 after 14 years of Start button UI and 7 years of boxy windows UI before that. Are we looking at a start of another 14 years of Start screen UI now? I'm sure Microsoft wanted something new, "fresh" after 21 years of two different kinds of GUIs. In the end, this is what we got with Windows 8.
Like someone said before-- a unifying UI doesn't equal a unifying ecosystem. I agree with that sentiment. But, apparently Microsoft seems to think so given the tile-based UI goes as far down as the Xbox 360.
/headdesk.
What works on the 360, Windows Phone and tablet, is very apparently not going to work on the desktop unless you got a touchscreen monitor (and, no, a graphics tablet is not the same thing, I've tried). The Windows developer blog has a lot of vocal comments regarding the ModernUI and a few other choice decisions Microsoft made in the past year.
Is it going to work? Maybe, maybe not. This is Microsoft's red-headed stepchild that apparently they want to be the successor in the family at the bemoaning of relatives and friends. Think of the UI as the first step in the unification of its products. Xbox Live for media and games. SkyDrive for cloud storage. Office 365 for productivity software on Windows 8 tablets and desktop, and probably Windows Phone, too. So, it really seems they want this to succeed regardless of criticisms.
But, how much of a market hit for Windows 8 desktop OS are they willing to risk before they start listening to criticisms we give them? We're talking about a multi-billion dollar company here with millions invested in getting Microsoft towards that end goal.
(Though, jumping the price up to its "original, un-discounted" price on February 1st. might get them to rethink about the whole thing faster than we can protest about Windows 8 in a forum like this, anyway.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. In the next service pack or the next yearly release of a major OS update (new version of Windows?), we'll probably see a few things happen if there is enough criticism about the UI and the market shows that the UI doesn't work:
- Start menu returns. - Highly unlikely.
- Start screen gets more usability improvements by next service pack. - Likely
- Start button returns but launches Start screen. - Seems likely.
- Retains Start screen and makes improvements to it by next Windows version. - Very likely.
I did a quick price check on Newegg for Windows 8 OEM and 7 OEM. The feedback comments are quite indicative. Windows 7 scores overwhelmingly positive while Windows 8 is trashed by quite a few. Granted even Windows 7 has its haters but people should demand MS bring back the traditional start screen and fire those idiots who designed metro.
Windows 7 Newegg OEM. Click on feedback.
Windows 8 OEM Newegg . LOL
octoberasian
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Hopefully, Microsoft listens to the criticism. They already get quite a bit of it directly on their development blogs. And, it doesn't look like they delete the comments last time I checked a few weeks ago.
If they don't listen, and they continue this unification into Windows 9, it's going to be a very bumpy road post-Windows 8. Windows 7 "fixed" Vista with many calling it Vista Service Pack 3. Will we see the same in Windows 9? Or, Microsoft will actually not do anything about it?
Pretty much the only frequent trouble we had with Vista in our company is its inability to maintain a stable WebClient service. WebDAV breaks in Vista all the freaking time and it's a buzzkill since we use SharePoint 2007 and 2010 all the time. Otherwise Vista was fine. No amount of restarting Vista or restarting WebClient service would make it work again. A reinstall was the only way to fix it. In every Google search I can find regarding this issue, a Microsoft representative would repeatedly tell us to restart the WebClient service and nothing more. Very frustrating.
This doesn't happen on XP, 7 nor 8.
I think we covered a lot of this previously as to how many copies of Windows 8 are actually in the wild vs sitting around somewhere waiting to be installed/activated etc., and how much those licenses actually sold for. We have no clue whatsoever what Microsoft has actually made from Windows 8. All we hear is "60 million" .
I don't want to get too far off topic, but if I was forced to buy either Microsoft or AMD stock, and forced to hold onto it for 5 years, I would pick AMD at this point. If you take a step back and look at what the future holds, Microsoft is screwed. They are a multibillion dollar company now, maybe a billion dollar company in the future. Even the giants can fail....especially if they listen to their own PR department and ignore the customer.
I don't want to get too far off topic, but if I was forced to buy either Microsoft or AMD stock, and forced to hold onto it for 5 years, I would pick AMD at this point. If you take a step back and look at what the future holds, Microsoft is screwed. They are a multibillion dollar company now, maybe a billion dollar company in the future. Even the giants can fail....especially if they listen to their own PR department and ignore the customer.
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octoberasian
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Look at Apple at the moment, their stock prices have dropped. Being a leader in the mobile space in terms of sales (US-side), is eroding day-by-day. Rehashing a very locked down product each year isn't going to work in the long term. Google and its Android OS in various products are coming up with different products each year as the mobile processors and GPUs get better and faster. There are more choices for consumers in Android-based mobile products than Apple mobile products, and also albeit cheaper too.
In this economy, you either innovate and adapt, or stagnate. Simple economics.
Microsoft is trying its damnedest to innovate and adapt as it faces stiff competition from both Apple and Google, and a changing marketplace that's going more and more mobile. Intel sees that competition from ARM-manufacturers such as Qualcomm. But, is Microsoft trying too hard that it'll alienate its customers?
And, consumers like choices. A walled-garden approach like Apple isn't going to work very well in the long run. There are a lack of choices coming from Microsoft especially when they starting pushing Windows 8 and its interface into as many devices as possible. Also, when they start making DirectX API exclusive to certain versions of Windows, it's another lockdown from Microsoft. We'll probably be in that boat in a few years if and when DirectX 12 is released and is most likely not compatible with Windows 7. Windows 8 RT has similar issues-- you can run Windows Store Apps, but you cannot run x86 desktop programs on an ARM-based system. On the downside, the everyday consumer may not know that and just see a Windows-based product and realize they made a mistake in spending $599 or whatever it costs for an ARM tablet that can't run x86 desktop (non-app store, Win32) programs. Windows 8 Pro tablets should alleviate that issue but the cost of entry is rather high. You may as well buy a laptop/ultrabook with keyboard included, or go to the iPad or the various Android tablets out there that have more apps in their respective app stores.
So, yeah, if I was given a choice between buying Microsoft or AMD stock, or even Apple, I'd probably buy AMD as well. At least from current indications, AMD is following the innovate/adapt approach and is going try to turn itself around this year.
Both AMD and Intel have thrown all their eggs into the Win8/MS basket, therefore their fates are wholly intertwined.
If Win8 doesn't do well then it's not just MS that's fucked but AMD and Intel are both royally screwed.
Not quite.
Intel and AMD are jumping, bigtime, on the ARM bandwagon. ARM tablets, ARM phones, ARM netbooks......ARM servers are where the industry is going. Microsoft no longer has the monopoly it has depended on, and I see a reactionary Microsoft management team that lacks a long term strategic focus. At this point it is a "throw everything and hope something sticks" approach. Works when you have the money to throw at it, kills you quick when you don't. I just don't see any COMPELLING product on the market that needs Microsoft to succeed. Microsoft has pissed in so many bowls of its partner's Wheaties over the years. All of the "hot" hardware has little/nothing to do with Microsoft. Maybe it will change, but that is alot to ask.
Why would Microsoft be willing to throw money at Dell? Ask yourself that. It is getting to be desperation time. Nothing radical in the short term, but I liken it to playing a chess match against someone really good, and the opponent has locked in your next 6 moves, and you have really limited options available to avoid checkmate.
AMD and Intel are gearing up for a post Microsoft world. I really got pissed at Rory and the direction he took at AMD when he moved in. I have a "Pro PC/X86 " bias, and that clouded my judgement. I see what is happening. Both AMD and Intel are being dragged (for the timebeing) into a new world. Both companies have seen the writing on the wall. Microsoft is the annoying rich kid that everyone will love to kick in the balls when the opportunity arises.
Not quite?
From the horse's mouth:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile..._Android_Tablets_Will_Stick_to_Windows_8.html
And Intel will only abandon x86 when they file for Chapt. 11 bankruptcy.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/intel-at-ces-more-performance-less-power-and-x86-everywhere/
Intel has been exploring other options, namely Tizen with partner Samsung - who is looking at Google/Android the same way Intel is looking at MS and Win8. Intel and Samsung are at least developing something to fall back on. AMD doesn't have any other options atm.
From the horse's mouth:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile..._Android_Tablets_Will_Stick_to_Windows_8.html
And Intel will only abandon x86 when they file for Chapt. 11 bankruptcy.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/intel-at-ces-more-performance-less-power-and-x86-everywhere/
Intel has been exploring other options, namely Tizen with partner Samsung - who is looking at Google/Android the same way Intel is looking at MS and Win8. Intel and Samsung are at least developing something to fall back on. AMD doesn't have any other options atm.
You need to read the AMD article again. Read it. Don't look at the headline....read it. Look at the qualifications of the statements made. Read between the lines, look at what is being said, more importantly, look at what is not being said.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...-talent-opening-a-path-to-phones-and-tablets/
"We know for sure that AMD will be introducing ARM-based Opteron processors for servers in 2014, but we wouldn't be surprised to see AMD make a more serious, ARM-based play for the consumer end of the market at some point as they seek to become less dependent on the low-margin, slowly contracting desktop and laptop PC market. AMD's current x86-based tablet CPUs, codenamed Hondo, has been integrated into a new tablet from Vizio that the company showed off at CESbut has otherwise been mostly shut out by Intel's Atom chips and ARM-based SoCs from the likes of Qualcomm, Samsung, and others."
Hell, we can haul out "competing" articles all day long, but when it is said and done logic leaves only a limited number of moves for AMD, Intel and Microsoft..............$500-600 tablets without an Apple embossed on it ain't gonna fly. AMD and Intel are full speed ahead getting their ARM chips fabbed and out the door.
Besides throwing money at it's partners, what does Microsoft offer? What can a Microsoft OS offer that and Android OS cannot? If it does offer anything more, is it worth the cost to the end user?
Mommy and daddy aren't going to throw $600 at an X86/Microsoft tablet for the kids when they can get two $300 android tablets that can do damned near what the expensive one can. Not even going to get into smart phones.
Once again, look at Microsoft and Dell and ask yourself "Why?" What sort of desperation is there when Microsoft has to finance a hardware vender just to use it's OS?
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...-talent-opening-a-path-to-phones-and-tablets/
"We know for sure that AMD will be introducing ARM-based Opteron processors for servers in 2014, but we wouldn't be surprised to see AMD make a more serious, ARM-based play for the consumer end of the market at some point as they seek to become less dependent on the low-margin, slowly contracting desktop and laptop PC market. AMD's current x86-based tablet CPUs, codenamed Hondo, has been integrated into a new tablet from Vizio that the company showed off at CESbut has otherwise been mostly shut out by Intel's Atom chips and ARM-based SoCs from the likes of Qualcomm, Samsung, and others."
Hell, we can haul out "competing" articles all day long, but when it is said and done logic leaves only a limited number of moves for AMD, Intel and Microsoft..............$500-600 tablets without an Apple embossed on it ain't gonna fly. AMD and Intel are full speed ahead getting their ARM chips fabbed and out the door.
Besides throwing money at it's partners, what does Microsoft offer? What can a Microsoft OS offer that and Android OS cannot? If it does offer anything more, is it worth the cost to the end user?
Mommy and daddy aren't going to throw $600 at an X86/Microsoft tablet for the kids when they can get two $300 android tablets that can do damned near what the expensive one can. Not even going to get into smart phones.
Once again, look at Microsoft and Dell and ask yourself "Why?" What sort of desperation is there when Microsoft has to finance a hardware vender just to use it's OS?
TheMadHatterXxX
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Fuck you all imma buy it today!