Windows 8 Beta

maverick786us

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While working on laptops, Is there any SIGNIFICANT improvement in battery backup compared to Windows VISTA?
 
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Wiseguy2001

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Crysis runthrough from coming out of the water until you hit the first road past the humvee that comes in for reenforcement.

Windows 8 Avg of 65 FPS
Windows 7 Avg of 47 FPS
Very interesting, I know optimising directX was a major selling point in Vista, but I haven't heard anything about W8. This could be the killer app for people around here!

While working on laptops, Is there any SIGNIFICANT improvement in battery backup compared to Windows VISTA?
It should do. W8 is very strict about how background programs are suspended. Unless they are specifically written to carry on background tasks (eg, updating a news feed), they are stopped.. dead!
 

stefan231

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Any type of .exe file for games that I try to open it crashes and gives .exe has stoped working error. The .exe file has the little windows shield on it. Anyone know of way to fix this. I have turned off uac firewall etc no luck, cant run any .exe files. Oh I have no problems runing .exe in windows 7.
 

W.Feather

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ideas on this anyone?


Another side issue .... finger touch will NOT disable....i go into control panel and set it to disable, and it doesnt disable....Wacom Drivers are so - so in this (bottom left of screen when in laptop mode) has no recognition in Win 8, while in Win 7 it worked w/o issue .... just a few quirks here/ there , all with drivers straight from HP's site(when windows included/found ones did not function)
 

heatlesssun

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ideas on this anyone?
Yeah, I don't know what's up with you pen drivers. The everything pen and touch wise with the exception of button support worked perfectly out of the box on my EP121 and I can disable touch from Pen and Touch settings.
 

W.Feather

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I can "disable them" however they dont truely become disabled is the issue.....probably just a kink on Wacom's part, the P121 uses N-Trig doesnt it ?

Yeah, I don't know what's up with you pen drivers. The everything pen and touch wise with the exception of button support worked perfectly out of the box on my EP121 and I can disable touch from Pen and Touch settings.
 

heatlesssun

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I can "disable them" however they dont truely become disabled is the issue.....probably just a kink on Wacom's part, the P121 uses N-Trig doesnt it ?
The EP121 uses Wacom drivers, I would have figured that the same base drivers would have installed on your 2740. The checking off the touch input does indeed disable it on the EP121.
 

W.Feather

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Keep in mind, i am using the ones from HP's site for Win 7, not the ones from Wacom....maybe i should give those a go....however I am getting to notice more and more subtle irregularities/issues that will hold me back from using it on the tablet ..

The EP121 uses Wacom drivers, I would have figured that the same base drivers would have installed on your 2740. The checking off the touch input does indeed disable it on the EP121.
 

heatlesssun

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Keep in mind, i am using the ones from HP's site for Win 7, not the ones from Wacom....maybe i should give those a go....however I am getting to notice more and more subtle irregularities/issues that will hold me back from using it on the tablet ..
So did the pen or touch work out of the box? What about during installation? Pen and touch worked perfectly for me straight from the beginning.
 

CrimsonKnight13

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After trying the Dev Preview, I personally can't stand the Metro GUI. I hope that they allow full customization & configuration of the GUI. Whatever new version of Aero Glass is built-in, I'll take that instead.
 

W.Feather

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No, pen/touch did not work until afte rinstall. I used the x64 install only, not the dev tools one (didnt have big enough DVD's or flash drives laying around that could be used for this)

So did the pen or touch work out of the box? What about during installation? Pen and touch worked perfectly for me straight from the beginning.
 

W.Feather

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let me rephrase my issue... touch with finger works in chrome and One note, even with it disabled ...but it does not function other onscreen keyboard.... also the bottom 2 corners of the screen have horrid/no Pen/touch tracking
 

AMD T-type

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let me rephrase my issue... touch with finger works in chrome and One note, even with it disabled ...but it does not function other onscreen keyboard.... also the bottom 2 corners of the screen have horrid/no Pen/touch tracking
pre. beta.
 

heatlesssun

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no shit, I was trying to get ideas since others have similar hardware with no issues
Yeah, having Windows 8 on both my EP121 and a desktop I'm noticing that most of the issues are driver related. The desktop is working almost perfectly with the exception on HomeGroups, they are a little flaky but are backwards compatible with 7 Homegroups, which is cool because I can't live without Homegroups now.

Everything other than Homegroups is working perfectly on my desktop, evening gaming. On my EP121, I think graphics drivers are the source of most of the things I'm seeing, full screen games simply don't work.
 

PGHammer

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After trying the Dev Preview, I personally can't stand the Metro GUI. I hope that they allow full customization & configuration of the GUI. Whatever new version of Aero Glass is built-in, I'll take that instead.
Let me guess - too tablet/slate/smartphone-ish?

That seems to be the biggest complaint with the Immersive UI - it's not a traditional desktop UI, let alone Windows GUI. However, if you dissect Immersive's user-facing components, only the Start button itself is actually missing. The desktop itself is still there (and is still used for the same purposes as the desktop has been used for since Windows 95). While the StartScreen takes largely over from the Start Menu, it also takes some of the load off the desktop (especially as placeholder). The one thing that has frustrated me *about* the Start menu is that it is the one thing about Windows that has been unchanged since Windows 95 went into beta - not a single alternative or optional UI (from anyone, including Microsoft) has gotten any traction; worse, most of them have felt kludged and half-baked. Have we basically said that all we want out of Microsoft is a dull, boring, but above all *safe* operating system?
 

rudy

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Has anyone figured out how to shut off the computer faster? Currently I have to log off, then it drops me on a home screen, then I have to push the home screen up and press the power icon. This is worse than that annoying shut off in XP.
 

PGHammer

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I have been playing with this a bit and it is certainly one of the most risky things M$ has ever done with an OS. The image above with all the versions of windows since 3.1 got me thinking about the interface. And more or less it has always been fairly standard. You have a start button in the bottom right, a task bar on the bottom and a desktop. But this is complete different. For over 20 years we have seen the same basic layout and TBH I dont think people can handle the change.

For me personally I see some cool things in windows 8, obviously tablets and touch devices . But beyond that it makes a pretty good UI for an HTPC. But right now it is no where near polished enough and alot of things are not intuitive enough for basic users. I sat an 8 year old down and observed what they could and could not figure out and there are to many things which cannot be figured out without knowledge of windows shortcuts.

Also it is in fact a layer on top of windows 7 no matter what M$ claims and there is far to much that is just 2 ways to do the same thing. This is going to piss off people more than anything. Lets hope they have some major revisions coming down the pipeline otherwise we are going to see M$ giving google the perfect event to take advantage of for moving into the desktop space.

So basically I see promise but in the end it will all come down to execution and cleaning up the details.

Also I heard a comment about it on NPR I thought it was funny the only thing they could talk about was some new error message that replaces the BSODs. Those guys can barely breath coming off of steve jobs cock long enough to gasp some useless negative detail no one even cares about in windows 8.
What we would then be basically saying is that companies that compete with Microsoft are allowed to be risky; however, Microsoft itself is not.
 

rudy

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Ya actually it is sad but it is kinda true. If M$ was a near pure monopoly with no competition in site, then they could pull this off. But right now apple is taking alot of market share in the computer sector and google is dominating the mobile sector.

I can guarentee you this, the metro UI is NOT going to be a smash hit that converts recent mac users back to windows. And it is not going to be accepted by the vast majority of windows people. Remember what happened when we went from xp to vista and how many people just could not handle the changes like the ribbon interface.

So the only thing M$ is gaining from this is tablet usability. But they are sacrificing some desktop functionality. They need to totally rethink this. If I were them I would make metro so it had a line of tiles at the bottom that were functionally replacing the windows 7 taskbar. And I would make sure you could still close each problem. There needs to be 1 place where you can see all your open programs. You cannot have this shit where you have 2 IEs running at the same time and you have various programs where you do not know if they are open or not. At least make it so pinned programs in metro that are currently running have a different look so people know it
 

heatlesssun

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So the only thing M$ is gaining from this is tablet usability. But they are sacrificing some desktop functionality.
This simply isn't true. First of all, Windows 8 will be 100% backwards compatible with Windows 7 software and hardware. Secondly, the new Start Screen works very much like the classic Start Menu and shell, the only thing that's really missing as far as I can tell is that the new Start Screen doesn't support folders.

In all the time I've spent on my Windows 8 desktop there's nothing thus far that I do on my Windows 7 desktops that doesn't work on 8, discounting bugs, HomeGroups in the dev preview is flaky.
 

Arainach

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Has anyone figured out how to shut off the computer faster? Currently I have to log off, then it drops me on a home screen, then I have to push the home screen up and press the power icon. This is worse than that annoying shut off in XP.
Settings charm from the Start Screen.
 

rudy

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Just working is one thing working well and doing so intuitively is a whole different story. If someone opens IE from the windows 7 desktop and then opens it from the metro UI they have different tabs they are different instances of IE and this is just one example of how things are going to be confusing to customers that are not avid computer users which is like 90% of your customer base.

Second alot of things should be default because the vast majority of people do not change anything from default. Most people that sit down in front of 8 right now cannot even figure out how to turn the machine off. If you google windows 8 shutdown the first thing you see is a page of howtos in videos it is such a rube goldberg mechanism.

There were several things that were just faster in windows 7 and they should not be getting slower in windows 8 but they are. Things like searching. The metro UI seems like it is suppose to replace the start menu but it does so without things being faster or getting done with less clicking. This is my major problem. Your commonly used programs should be the first thing you see not something you have to scroll over to see.

Like I said I can see potential but with only 1 year to go this developer preview does not give confidence and the fact that the media in general has a very negative view of M$ will not help them to encourage people to learn it. The way alot of customers see this many are on the fence about switchign to macs and if windows 8 means a whole different UI alot of them will just say ok well now is as good a time as any to switch.

M$ could do this in alot less shocking manner. Maybe something like have a strip of tiles at the bottom which is basically your task bar that mirrors the pinned programs. have programs that are open have a raised or highlighted tile so you know what is currently running and it draws your attention to it like the windows 7 task bar. I dont know alot of other things. But I still stand by what I said this is a hack job of wp7 UI in windows 7 to make it windows 8. And that hack job needs some serious polish if it is going to survive the public opinion without further erroding M$ market share.
 

devil22

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Has anyone figured out how to shut off the computer faster? Currently I have to log off, then it drops me on a home screen, then I have to push the home screen up and press the power icon. This is worse than that annoying shut off in XP.
you can press ctrl-alt-del and the shutdown options is in the lower left.
 

PGHammer

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Ya actually it is sad but it is kinda true. If M$ was a near pure monopoly with no competition in site, then they could pull this off. But right now apple is taking alot of market share in the computer sector and google is dominating the mobile sector.

I can guarentee you this, the metro UI is NOT going to be a smash hit that converts recent mac users back to windows. And it is not going to be accepted by the vast majority of windows people. Remember what happened when we went from xp to vista and how many people just could not handle the changes like the ribbon interface.

So the only thing M$ is gaining from this is tablet usability. But they are sacrificing some desktop functionality. They need to totally rethink this. If I were them I would make metro so it had a line of tiles at the bottom that were functionally replacing the windows 7 taskbar. And I would make sure you could still close each problem. There needs to be 1 place where you can see all your open programs. You cannot have this shit where you have 2 IEs running at the same time and you have various programs where you do not know if they are open or not. At least make it so pinned programs in metro that are currently running have a different look so people know it
Again, you're basically restricting what Microsoft is allowed to do (albeit indirectly) by shackling it to legacy UIs (if not APIs) all in the name of *safety*.

Metro/Immersive is not about users of Apple desktops or portables.

It's about tablet, slate, and smartphone users - some of whom may not have a computer at all - but want a UI they are at least passing-familiar with.

Metro/Immersive is *usable* on desktops and traditional portables - I use it on one - however, it's not for everyone, and I don't claim that it is. Tablet, slate, and even smartphone users - especially those that don't have computers at all - are finding those same devices limiting, especially in terms of capabilities and performance. However, they have as much resistance to learning a wildly different UI as any Windows (or Mac, or even KDE or GNOME) user. Metro/Immersive is to put it plainly, an *optional* user interface.

As much as *I* personally like Immersive, I know it's not for everyone - in fact, I knew that before the whole brouhaha over Immersive began. However, just because it's not for everyone doesn't mean it shouldn't be for *anyone* (which is exactly how some anti-Immersive rants have put it).
 

heatlesssun

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Most people that sit down in front of 8 right now cannot even figure out how to turn the machine off. If you google windows 8 shutdown the first thing you see is a page of howtos in videos it is such a rube goldberg mechanism.
No more I bet than the number of people that know how to turn off their smart phones. Really, it ain't that hard to figure out.
 

rudy

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Some of you guys sound like mac zealots defending M$ at any cost. No one can deny with honesty that shutting down windows 8 right now is not where it should be. It takes less steps to shut down my phone which is designed to never be shutdown unlike a computer.

I now know how to do it through settings and that is certainly easier but not something that I would have guessed. Very odd place to put it. I think they need it right in your name click your name then shutdown and have the same default action as windows 7 with the option to expand for other shutdown options. Or make it a part of the start menu as before. But it needs to be 2 clicks max.
 

heatlesssun

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Some of you guys sound like mac zealots defending M$ at any cost. No one can deny with honesty that shutting down windows 8 right now is not where it should be. It takes less steps to shut down my phone which is designed to never be shutdown unlike a computer.
Where it's supposed to be? Yes it's in a different place now Settings -> Power. It's like you're saying that Microsoft can't ever change ANYTHING as something will not be where "it's supposed to be."
 

rudy

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I am not saying that anything is set in stone but I am pointing out that the current system is less efficient it is about twice as long to do the task and not obvious given the fact there are how to's on youtube about it already. I gave 2 possible places it could reside and one of them was not where it used to be.

IMO an OS should get faster and more efficient as time progresses. ANd there needs to be a really good reason to make something less efficient. Previously shutdown was 2 clicks that were close to each other. Now it is a movement to the start menu a click on settings then traverse to the opposite side of the screen to power down. And on top of that is is not obvious that is where it is and alot of people my self included found the most intuitive way to shut down was to go through a much longer process. Unless you are used to a windows NT style machine on a work network CTRL-ALT-Delete is not where people would expect it either.

Now it has me even thinking about the layout of metro I think it is kinda stupid how the start menu is in the left bottom corner but when you enact many of the functions in the start menu it brings up the menus on the right side of the screen what is the point in making people mouse all the way to 1 side then mouse all the way to the other.
 

heatlesssun

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There's really nothing intuitive about shutting down Windows, its simply a matter of knowing how to do it. Is it less efficient with a mouse in Windows 8, ok I could agree with that but then how often do people actually do that manually? I just don't see it as anything that the average person would think much off and it's easy enough to put the option and instructions in the search system when a user types "turn off computer".

The main reason I'm positive about Windows 8 is that I use a lot of different form factors, including pen and touch convertible laptops and slates and the idea of making Windows work well across all these form factors and input methods is a HUGE win for customers ass there's just simply going to be more touch devices and that markets is just going to keep getting bigger. If one OS can power a device that can be used as a tablet or a laptop that's just one less thing a person would have to buy if they wanted both a tablet and full function computer. There's just an lot of economy in that and as long as Windows 8 doesn't disrupt classic desktop operation too much, and thus far I've not seen that it has, Windows 8 could be a big game changer.
 

griffinhart

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I still disagree about Win 8 not disrupting classic desktop operations too much. And MS pushing Metro Apps over traditional desktop apps will only compound the issue. What makes the Win7 desktop superior to the Win8 Metro UI for a desktop computer is the actual desktop Metaphor. It's a much better design for work flow. This whole "full screen immersive apps" stuff is fine for mobile platforms, but terrible for productivity on desktop computers.
 

heatlesssun

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Having used Windows 8 on a desktop for the last couple of weeks to get started in developing Metro apps, Sure things are different which is of course disruptive but after about 10 minutes everything became pretty straight forward. Sure there's rough edges that need to be worked on but developing code is a fairly "desktop oriented" thing and it just hasn't been a problem doing everything I normally do on a desktop.

I think for technical and experienced users the changes will be more divisive than for average people who most I think will just will simply adjust as long as the transition isn't difficult.
 

darksonic

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Not sure if anyone has noticed this but if the Start Bar is an any side of the screen other than the bottom the Start "menu" does not show up. Very annoying.
 

PGHammer

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I still disagree about Win 8 not disrupting classic desktop operations too much. And MS pushing Metro Apps over traditional desktop apps will only compound the issue. What makes the Win7 desktop superior to the Win8 Metro UI for a desktop computer is the actual desktop Metaphor. It's a much better design for work flow. This whole "full screen immersive apps" stuff is fine for mobile platforms, but terrible for productivity on desktop computers.
Microsoft is pushing Metro due to it being inherently multiplatform, which current traditional applications are not. It's called *niche development* vs. *multiplatform development*. (Didn't we just have this conversation about game development?)

Also, traditional and Metro applications can co-exist, on the same computer. The bigger issue is that tablets and slates will have issues with classic applications due to lack of support for specific hardware present on traditional desktops; however, desktop PCs, by and large, won't have the reverse issue with Immersive.
 

PGHammer

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Having used Windows 8 on a desktop for the last couple of weeks to get started in developing Metro apps, Sure things are different which is of course disruptive but after about 10 minutes everything became pretty straight forward. Sure there's rough edges that need to be worked on but developing code is a fairly "desktop oriented" thing and it just hasn't been a problem doing everything I normally do on a desktop.

I think for technical and experienced users the changes will be more divisive than for average people who most I think will just will simply adjust as long as the transition isn't difficult.
All too true.

There's a reason for that - as loath as they are to admit it, the technical user (especially the longest-term technical user) has everything *just so* and sees change as *disruptive*. The biggest change in Immersive/Metro is the StartScreen/lack of a Start menu. One would think it would be beginners and newbies clamoring for retention of the Start menu, which has been in Windows since 9x; why are the technical users - who would actually be expected to use it least - bucking the trend and asking for it to stay?

So far, from the comments that I've seen, they are subjective and virulently anti-change. Basically, "Windows isn't Windows without the Start menu."
 

griffinhart

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Microsoft is pushing Metro due to it being inherently multiplatform, which current traditional applications are not. It's called *niche development* vs. *multiplatform development*. (Didn't we just have this conversation about game development?)

Also, traditional and Metro applications can co-exist, on the same computer. The bigger issue is that tablets and slates will have issues with classic applications due to lack of support for specific hardware present on traditional desktops; however, desktop PCs, by and large, won't have the reverse issue with Immersive.
The Metro UI isn't about niche vs Multiplatform. WinRT is. I'm talking about the desktop Metaphor. That is the ability to use the logical desktop area as a workspace. I use it to temporarily store and organize all my current projects and work, filing them off to folders later. This metaphor works MUCH better for managing my workflow than the MetroUI.

And I know that Metro and traditional apps can co-exist, but it's sloppy to do so at best. You have to manage them seperately. Metro Apps in the MetroUI and Traditional Apps on the taskbar on the "windows desktop." On the desktop, I find Metro apps extremely limiting as well. The Metro UI allows for only two apps visible at once, MS is pushing for a world where we are running all Metro apps and no traditional apps. The Windows Desktop in Win8 is primarily there for legacy support.

MS needs to have a better task switching system in place than what currently exists in Win8. One that allows seemless task switching and management between all apps, no matter the style. Alt-Tab isn't good enough.

Comparing, on a desktop PC, a machine running only Metro Apps, vs a Win7 desktop running only traditional apps the former will be far less efficient at getting work done over the latter. Only two visible apps (assuming the resolution is high enough) and no desktop is extremely limiting. The ability to run my apps in windows and have more than two visible apps at once is critical and non-negotiable.

Ultimately the Metro UI is great for tablets, novices and simple computer usage, but for anything more sophisticated, Metro is limiting. Metro + Traditional, in its current form, is messy, jarring, and non-intuitive.
 
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