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windows 8 is the best OS I ever used.
No idea why people dont buy it in droves.
if MS continues with the same direction that windows 8 is going, eventually it will hurt the company really badly. they already made pc sales to drop, and majority of corporations will never adapt this joke.
if MS continues with the same direction that windows 8 is going, eventually it will hurt the company really badly. they already made pc sales to drop, and majority of corporations will never adapt this joke.
maybe because not everyone wants their desktop to be turned into giant tablets.
And if you're in any way even remotely competent at using a computer, that won't happen and you should see no loss in productivity moving to 8.
windows 8 isn't helping PC sales, in my general area I have Frys, Microcenter and Tigerdirect stores, when I need something quick I often go to one of those stores to pick something up, and been looking at laptops for my girlfriend for a while. Almost every single time when I go to one of those stores I hear 1-3 people asking one of the employees "can I get this PC with windows 7" when they hear the answer no, most of them just keep walking and leave.
Keep telling yourself that windows 8 does not negatively affect PC sales.
And if you're in any way even remotely competent at using a computer, that won't happen and you should see no loss in productivity moving to 8.
The 'Windows 8 is tablet optimized' claims are the number one indicator that someone is a hive-mind, media fed drone who hasn't used Windows 8 and isn't willing to form their own opinions.
Windows 8 tablets and PCs are fast, sleek, built for touch, and ready for action.
Windows 8 is perfect for PCs with touchscreens, those that have a mouse and keyboard, and those with both. For PCs that don't have a touchscreen, there are easy mouse equivalents for all touch gestures.
It was designed for touch screens. It works fine on desktops, but if it wasn't designed (or optimized) for touchscreens, Microsoft wouldn't have a big push for touch on Surface, tablets, touch screen PC's. Hive-mind? No. Microsoft marketing. Straight from the horses mouth.
Optimized for tablet would imply compromise elsewhere. If it's not reducing usability for non-tablet users, then they're not optimizing it for tablets, but rather just making it more general.
But, the problem people have is that a tablet is not a desktop PC. Yet, they are treated with the same OS. It suffers the same limitations that the Windows 7 UI had. Great for mouse/keyboard, but just ok (and sometimes frustrating) with touch. Now, you have Windows 8 which is excellent for touch but can be frustrating for mouse/keyboard (and especially laptop with eraser nub mouse). They are trying to make a one OS fits all, and that is where all the complaints come from.
I have Metro on my phone, tablet, desktop PC's, work laptop, home laptop and Xbox 360. I have no problems with it. But, you, I, Heatless are in the minority. All these vocal people out there have legitimate complaints. If these people cannot use the OS efficiently, then the 'simple, elegant, touch OS' from Microsoft is not hitting it's target audience. That's what I would like to see corrected. From all the complaints I have seen, 99% of them have been from Metro. I don't care if there are workarounds. If the user cannot use it after an hour, they will give up... I would like to see Windows 8.1 or future updates get a better reputation and be able to stand up and get praise. To do so, you need to satisfy these users that are having problems. Fix the problems, but in a way where it has a compromise. 8.1 is in the right direction - boot to desktop, start button (at least a visual indicator that something is there, anyway). That will help a lot of people. Integrated Bing search is nice. We'll see how the public takes those.
When I take complaints to Microsoft, even if they are not mine but a general overview of the forum complaints, I get similar responses. They know they are issues, but that is the direction they are taking Windows. Some MSFT employees don't like Metro. They are working to refine it and make it a great OS that everyone can use easily. They are getting input and taking the complaints and making it better. So, hopefully, the complaints and praise get to the right people, and subtle changes are made for the better. Windows is moving into the touch realm, and you can't stop it. But, you can make the transition easier. They are making Windows to appeal to the masses, not the few. So, even if I submit complaints, I'm helping make Windows better for the masses. Even if I don't have a problem, but 10 other people do - I submit it. You can't ignore the people with problems, even if you have none (like me with Vista - perfect OS for me until 7 was released).
Anecdotes are a worthless way of making an argument, and children are the only people who can get away with using them.
the company I worked for up until late last year was quick at adopting new software, and they moved to Windows 8 in September of 2012 and have stayed on it since.
Perhaps that's a Freudian slip. Despite how often I can point to very clear UX issues in the Start Screen, it's a tractable change. Transitioning from the Start Menu to the Start Screen is a tractable thing.they already made pc sales to drop, and majority of corporations will never adapt this joke.
For anyone interested in what I'm talking about, Ex7ForW8 link is here. By the author of StartIsBack. http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/35189-Windows-7-explorer-for-Windows-8 Switch back and forth between the Win7 explorer and Win8+Metro explorer in 1-click. THAT's how trivial it is to disable Metro, and thats why the fantasy notion that Windows8 is some native Metro environment - or to quote this guy "In the release version, the new UI is the actual UI running. There's nothing underneath it, because it's now a core part of the OS" - is just that, a fantasy notion.
When I take complaints to Microsoft, even if they are not mine but a general overview of the forum complaints, I get similar responses. They know they are issues, but that is the direction they are taking Windows. Some MSFT employees don't like Metro. They are working to refine it and make it a great OS that everyone can use easily. They are getting input and taking the complaints and making it better. So, hopefully, the complaints and praise get to the right people, and subtle changes are made for the better. Windows is moving into the touch realm, and you can't stop it. But, you can make the transition easier. They are making Windows to appeal to the masses, not the few. So, even if I submit complaints, I'm helping make Windows better for the masses. Even if I don't have a problem, but 10 other people do - I submit it. You can't ignore the people with problems, even if you have none (like me with Vista - perfect OS for me until 7 was released).
Metro bloat? Maybe it's because I'm running systems with at least 4 GB (main desktops at 16 & 32), but I've never found Metro to be lagging. Windows 8 is faster at core OS things than Windows 7 was. Unless you are running 1 GB of RAM on an older P4, I don't see dropping Metro to save a few MB of RAM...
Sure there are issues with Windows 8, I like many people like yourself who like Windows 8 have discussed them at length. When you talk about the masses I think of the kids I've seen pick up my Windows 8 tablets and go to town on them. When I saw kids who were thinking of Start Menus or full screen apps or app stores, they just picked up the things and were engaged and delighted.
Sure there are issues with Windows 8, I like many people like yourself who like Windows 8 have discussed them at length. When you talk about the masses I think of the kids I've seen pick up my Windows 8 tablets and go to town on them. When I saw kids who were thinking of Start Menus or full screen apps or app stores, they just picked up the things and were engaged and delighted.
This kind of experience is critical to the future of Windows as more and more tablets and touch and lightweight apps become available. Yes, the new UI needs to be better with conventional input methods but it doesn't need to just like Windows 7.
Never implied Metro was lagging. Bloat is a figure of speech, not a number. To me bloat is anything running on my system I dont need and won't ever use. So to reverse the argument, I dont see keeping anything I dont need, even if its only 50MB or so (before it's launched anything else). Getting rid of it is also peace of mind that it won't be launching or updating or performing any internal operation or file modifications I didn't ask for and don't need.
I dont think anyone disputes Metro was built for kids.
So I'm not sure that's an endorsement, certainly not surprising kids would be "delighted" by an electronic device with big multicolored tiles. FWIW, if you had iPads laying around I'm not sure they'd ignore them in favor of Metro tablets. As for it being critical to the future of Windows, I have my doubts. We'll see.
Usually, I try to educate them a bit, but once they get to that point when they are pissed off, they don't want a lesson - they want it fixed....
But, the problem people have is that a tablet is not a desktop PC. Yet, they are treated with the same OS.
So, even if I submit complaints, I'm helping make Windows better for the masses. Even if I don't have a problem, but 10 other people do - I submit it. You can't ignore the people with problems, even if you have none (like me with Vista - perfect OS for me until 7 was released).
Comedy.
Nope, smaller memory footprint because no metro bloat. See for yourself its easy to switch back and forth.
To me bloat is anything running on my system I dont need and won't ever use.
So, when it comes to bloat - I say what bloat?!
That's a concept known as abstraction, and it's quite powerful. Why make a solution to one problem, and a separate solution to another problem, when you could generalize the first problem so its solution also solves the second problem?
what if your "all-in-one" solution causes more problems.
What problems does it cause? What can you do in Windows 7 that you can't do in Windows 8?
Please note that "it's different" does not constitute a problem.
"It's different" can be a problem. I can do most of what I can do on a Windows PC on a Mac. But, it's different. Different enough to where I can't do much. Give me a month, and I could probably do it. But, it can be a legitimate problem.
If enough people share that same 'problem', then it is a legitimate problem. Let's rearrange your desk and move all of your things. Once you get used to it, we'll move them around again. If you have 1000 people saying they are having problems using the OS, even just because it's different, and 20 people saying they are having a blast and it's easy - then it needs work. Which is what it's getting.
Interesting. Help me understand your perspective; Given how fundamental the user interface is, how can you say that changing it isn't a valid reason to criticize?If "it's different" is the only barrier, that's not a valid reason to criticize something.
So your position is that Windows7 interface isn't the "best", with the implication being that Windows 8 comes closer to being "the best", right?Keeping something that's not the best option simply because it's the status quo is stupid
Given how fundamental the user interface is, how can you say that changing it isn't a valid reason to criticize?
So your position is that Windows7 interface isn't the "best", with the implication being that Windows 8 comes closer to being "the best", right?
Let's see the evidence to support your position.
Interesting. So first you challenge that the interface is fundamental, then you agree with me.How can you say that it is? If anything, the interface is so fundemental that we should be constantly making strides to improve it, rather than keeping a 20 year old interface just because we're used to it.
I see. So you can't provide evidence to support your position. To clarify, I asked for *evidence* to support your position that Windows8+ User Interface is better than previous versions. That means objective metrics.Easy. Someone who is proficient in using the interface can be as productive on Windows 8 on a desktop or laptop as on Windows 7. Meanwhile, Windows 8's interface has been generalized and also supports touch devices well.
Added capability without compromise is clearly an improvement.
Poor choice of analogy here: functional programming is not unequivocally better than imperative programming, at least with regard to current language implementations.Maybe nobody should ever use a functional programming language, because people who have already been writing code in imperative languages will have to get used to the different style.
Windows 7's interface supports touch.Meanwhile, Windows 8's interface has been generalized and also supports touch devices well.
Interesting. So first you challenge that the interface is fundamental, then you agree with me.
...how can you say that changing it isn't a valid reason to criticize?
Which is it? In your mind, is the user interface fundamental, and thus critical, or isn't it?
I see. So you can't provide evidence to support your position. To clarify, I asked for *evidence* to support your position that Windows8+ User Interface is better than previous versions. That means objective metrics.
Windows 7's interface supports touch.
Windows 7's interface supports touch.
I actually thought I might have misread it, but then I realized that meant you were saying that the UI is so fundamental that we NEED to keep changing it, which made even less sense than what I thought you said, so I dismissed it.Nope. Re-evaluate your reading skills if you are going to have a discussion with me.
You said
...to which I replied: "How can you say that it is?"
...As in, 'how can you say that it is a valid reason to criticize an OS'. Please note that through no logic is my statement equivalent to 'The interface is not fundamental'. If you're not going to make a valid attempt to read my posts before you go acting as though I am crazy or stupid, how about you don't bother replying to them at all?
So you agree that the UI is fundamental, right? Then why is it above criticism to change it? Does that really make sense to you?
We were actually talking about your position, not mine. Is there a reason you are now trying to redirect the discussion to something else? Don't feel comfortable supporting your position, perhaps?Is your stance that trying to improve something which is important is bad? If not, then by what other reasoning do you believe that change, good or bad, is reason enough to condemn something?
We were actually talking about your position, not mine. Is there a reason you are now trying to redirect the discussion to something else? Don't feel comfortable supporting your position, perhaps?