Windows 7 Is One Obstinate OS

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    Computerworld looked at the latest numbers from web analytics vendor Net Applications and discovered Windows 7 managed to grow “for the second straight month, gaining a whopping 1.2 percentage points to rebound to 38.4% of all PCs and 43.9% of those running Windows.” Windows 10 wasn’t as lucky, falling “by six-tenths of a percentage point in February, ending the month at 40.3% of all personal computers and 46.1% of all PCs running Windows.” Some say users are just reluctant to upgrade, while others call this proof W10 is despised.

    At the same time, the should-be-dead Windows XP put on six-tenths of a points during February, climbing to 3.3% of all PCs and stretching to 3.8% of systems powered by Windows. All in all, it was a mess. Windows 10 was supposed to be growing but it wasn't. Windows 7 and Windows XP were to be shedding share, but they weren't. Windows overall has been losing share, surely if slowly, but instead it gained.
     
  2. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I agree with the criticisms of Win10. Microsoft did a lot of stuff I hate with it.

    That said, I hope these people aren't foolish enough to keep using Win7 past it's EOL date on January 14th next year.

    Once an OS no longer receives regular security updates it needs to be permanentely removed from any network.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
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  3. seanreisk

    seanreisk Gawd

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    Windows 7 is gaining because Microsoft pushed the Windows 10 upgrade over the top of Windows 7 / 8. People owned copies of Windows 7 with valid serial numbers, but Windows 10 never translated that serial number into a Windows 10 serial number - they wanted to you log into the Windows network and let Microsoft take a 'snapshot' of your hardware to validate that system to Microsoft. Now we're 2 years into the life-cycle of Windows 10 and you are seeing people reinstall their OS because they replaced key pieces of computer hardware, and they are finding out that it's difficult to activate Windows 10. You can still do it, and you can do it with your old Windows 7 serial number, but I have seen a lot of examples where people have reinstalled their old Win 7/8 OS onto new hardware and never upgraded to 10.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  4. bobdabilder

    bobdabilder Limp Gawd

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    Proof that win10 sux
     
  5. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal 2[H]4U

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    The forced updates from win 10 for your average user is attrocious. I had turned off all the telemtry and updating in win 10 after an hour plus of checking and unchecking boxes in the registry, only to somehow magically getting updates shoved back down my throat and all the telemtry data being reset to defaults. If I own it, why the FK are you in my home, modifying my personal machine to suit your agenda MS? They are trying turn home computers into the closed, parent owned system of IOS, taking consent out of the equation despite owning it. I find it appalling and will continue to bitch until i am hoarse since it will continue to get worse over time.

    I don't know if I just felt more in control but at least with win7 I had a good idea of what I had turned off and on in the OS, and how much of my life was being reported directly back to MS and any advertisers they are compensated to sell it to. Is it wrong that I don't want my OS to have full unrestrained control over my cam and microphone? I understand that the majority of people have consented to facebook and other corporations to own their virtual fingerprint, in exchange for use of their services, but not everyone wants to be part of that system. The inability to pay for what goods/services you are buying with hard currency is an issue to me. Enslaving consumers to sell their digital fingerprint concerns me greatly.
     
  6. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    *Shrug* Could also be that people have not upgraded their 7 year old computer and simply turned them on for the first time in a while.
     
  7. yossarian

    yossarian Gawd

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    I keep using Win XP in a VM just so I can keep using my perfectly good Canon MP600 scanner features that were unusable starting with Win 7 because Canon didn't want to update the printer driver. I don't go online with it, however.
     
  8. bugleyman

    bugleyman [H]ard|Gawd

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    Maybe don't put spyware in your OS?
     
  9. kilroy67

    kilroy67 Gawd

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    Don't forget the handful of computers still running Windows 95-98, I saw one at a company just the other day running Windows 95. LOL!
     
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  10. Night_Hawk-19

    Night_Hawk-19 Gawd

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    Its called bad updates and patches. Microsoft forcing updates and not testing them completely before release.
     
  11. mullet

    mullet [H]ard|Gawd

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  12. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Win10 is like cancer.
    Many people I know hate it, even normal users don't like it. Win7 is here to stay, and relying on just updates to make a system secure is laughable and poor practice.
     
  13. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    Windows 10 is okay. I finally used it long enough.
    It does have detrimental visual changes.
    I don't understand MS... Spent decades polishing and perfecting UI, all of which ends up in the masterpiece that is called windows 7, only to piss all over it with 8 via adopting the worse of Android.. 10 corrected some I think, but still.
    Google can't get their shit together either, right when you either get an update that you hmm not bad or right when you are used to the last shit changes they done, the go and change it again... For more white, and even LESS visual clues. Way to go.
    Well in the end devices will be nothing BUT access points, so meh.
     
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  14. Arcygenical

    Arcygenical Will Watercool for Crack

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    This exact scenario happened to me. I cannot get the old retail windows 7 key i purchased to validate on windows 10.
     
  15. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

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    I can't get my 8 Pro to activate anymore with 10 either, I had to do a fresh rebuild just a few weeks back. I was lucky I was able to get a 10 Ent key through work but somebody f'ed up at MS pretty hard.
     
  16. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

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    I would hardly call 7 a masterpiece UI but it was leagues ahead of 8. 10 has grown on me at this point and I find going backwards sluggish and clumsy.
     
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  17. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have to maintain an NT 4 server for a minimum of another year, Accounting can't get their heads out of their asses and sign off on its replacement. The department head doesn't want to upgrade but everybody else does, she retires in 4 months, the day she goes the replacement begins, we expect it to take at least 8 months to transfer and validate the new system..... It will be so beautiful.
     
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  18. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    Meh, i would.
    My current installation w7 has been running since inception, converting to ssd was a great upgrade for speed (remarkable really) . But the system is old. Would agree do disagree I guess . 'modern UI' is something I use on a daily basis, have yet to love it, have yet to see greatness.. I TOLERATE it just about. W10 did is better than 8, for sure. I will have to build a new pc soon enough (big one, I run w10 in a little box)
     
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  19. GHRTW

    GHRTW n00b

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    By saying this, you think also that any PC, server that has a non-fixable problem related to security should stop running on any network too? Intel CPUs have some of those unfixable problems (a new one is discovered every few months) and are used in most rervers worldwide.
     
  20. oMek

    oMek Gawd

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    I'm sure some of it has to do with the ability to bios edit and get win 7 free. Cant do that with win 10 far as I know. 90%+ (guess) of the pc world just use what their pc came with and don't think twice about it.
     
  21. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I wouldn't call Windows 7 a masterpiece of UI by any stretch of the imagination. There's loads of room for improvements. Like you said though, if everything that comes after is worse, that makes the predecessor look better. That's really the reason Windows 7 keeps surviving. It's not that it's the greatest OS ever, it's that Windows 10 gives so many reasons to reconsider using it.
     
  22. Dead Parrot

    Dead Parrot 2[H]4U

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    Could be a statistical quirk. Could also be the increasing coverage of large tech's privacy violations are starting to cause end users to take action. Most things I read indicate the core Win 10 OS is solid. The big issue is Win 7 assumed the end user owned the PC. With Win 10, the assumption seems to be that MS owns the PC. Unless of course something bad happens, then the EULA, TOS, PP etc all put the risk with the end user. MS could end the debate by stripping out telemetry, restoring control of updates to the end user, return full control of the desktop layout and installed applications to the end user and stop the monthly risk of finding your user settings changed.
     
  23. Delicieuxz

    Delicieuxz Gawd

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    Windows XP still gets security updates with a simple registry tweak. Windows 7 will receive security updates for corporations until 2023. I won't be surprised if individuals can also enable those extended security updates for their Windows 7 OSes with a simple registry tweak.


    There are activators for Windows 10 just as there are for Windows 7.

    However, Windows 10 can be used indefinitely for free without doing anything. The background and personal settings just can't be changed without activating it.


    I more think that Windows 10's high market share is hugely dependent on Microsoft having given it away for free for years (using a Windows 7 or 8 key to install Windows 10 still works, AFAIK) and particularly having force-installed it on millions of PCs against the wishes of the owners of those systems. Because of those things, in addition to the many issues with Windows 10, I believe that Windows 10's current market-share stats are not earned and not deserved.


    There is a lot to be said for Windows 7, still. I have a Windows 7 installation that hasn't been updated since 2015, and it's going strong and is rock-solid and the most stable OS I've had. Windows 10 isn't in the same league of stability and reliability as Windows 7. I easily understand people ditching Windows 10 to go back to Windows 7. Windows 10 is just a reskin of 7 that does little new that's needed and with a ton of garbage and issues on top.
     
  24. BSmith

    BSmith [H]ard|Gawd

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    Just got through rolling back 22 systems to Windows 7. The owner was not a happy camper. I am goping to quote, as best I can, what he had to say.

    "These systems are appliances which help our business run smoothly. When they cannot be relied upon, it hurts everything. We need to be able to take them for granted."

    I explained the long term issues with security and not being able to get drivers for new hardware. He just walked me into his office where his own system was stuck in a reboot loop and pointed, "How is this any better? In the last six months we have suffered more downtime than we had in the last five years with WIndows 7." He even asked about Linux. I steered him from that as it would not have been a happy office, given his requirements.

    I still run Windows 7 Pro on my personal system. I see no reason to change it, even after the Microsoft drops support for it. I bet they do not drop support for the telemetry collection they have buried in it.

    My two bits.
     
  25. joobjoob

    joobjoob Gawd

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    Why shouldn't windows 7 be the definitive gaming OS?

    Load up windows 10 original release and then a current build. It has been all downgrades and crapware.

    For first time since vista I've been fiddling with gaming in linux.

    Just be prepared with a ps2 keyboard and a usb2 port to install 7.
     
  26. nofearek9

    nofearek9 n00b

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    Win7 > *
    but for DX12 gaming :( you have to go win10 , i am using a lite w10 version with bloatware and unescessary software removed ,just 1.3gb iso
     
  27. SvenBent

    SvenBent 2[H]4U

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    or
    a: the reisntaleld because the didn wanted updates to remove software without you notice (ms admittied this and its in thier ToS for win10 so dont even debate it)
    b: they don like windows updates borking mouse/performance issues suddenly


    I was in groupe A
    Windows updated removed Dtool from my system without asking or notifying me because it was "inkompatible with e new update



    Works fine with usb3.0.
    Just need to know how to install windows 7
     
  28. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That is a good idea.
     
  29. PeaKr

    PeaKr Gawd

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    btw, now's the time to defer your windows 10 feature update to avoid being a m$ guinea pig. Oh, and it appears they are changing the update options again, you won't be able to 'defer' feature updates in the settings menu and the 'pause updates' has been reduced from 30 days to 7.
     
  30. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So, what do you predict will be broken this time because, I have 3 computers with the latest insider builds, all working well, even with hardware swapping and upgrading. (Had to use another key to activate on a new board that I bought but, that is to be expected.)
     
  31. SamuelL421

    SamuelL421 Limp Gawd

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    I have to install Start10 on a win10 pc before I can use it on a regular basis. The windows 7 start menu is just superior in every way compared to windows 10 start menu on a non-touch device (or put another way: on 99% of computers...)
     
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  32. coynatha

    coynatha Limp Gawd

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    I learned something this weekend about Windows 10 updates and overclocking.

    RUN STOCK SETTINGS.

    It was locking up constantly during the updates and reboots. Disabling PBO and loading "optimized defaults" got me through to build 1809.

    Granted I didn't do a lot of stability testing, but something to think about.
     
  33. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah, how about no. I don't care for someone's irrational preferences to dictate what I can or can't use to access the Internet or my internal networks. I can control the security of my machines far better than Microsoft's patching system, especially on Win 10. Hell, if I relied on MS and its "patched" OS for security, I should be fired.
     
  34. Z3r0k3wl

    Z3r0k3wl [H]Lite

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    I would take this article with a grain of salt. There is no separation between home pc and workplace pc. I would venture that the vast majority of of those WIN7 machines are within companies that are slow to adopt WIN10. How do I know this? Because I work in one of those companies with 50k employees and we're just now rolling out WIN10. Most home users would be on WIN10 because that's the norm when you buy a new PC for the past few years since its release .

    WIN10 has been highly praised by many critics and reviewers as MS best operating system. Yes people hate the telemetry aspect of it but if you're sticking with WIN7 because of this, you're in for a little treat. If you regularly patch your OS then you likely have those same "spy tools" installed just like in WIN10.

    The other common hate theme I see is the auto updates. There is a very fine line between patching and not patching. MS chose to force updates probably out of necessity because people were just not doing it. And by people I'm referring to the average home user. This left many machines exposed to vulnerabilities. In the workplace it's different. Patching is more controlled.

    I'm not toting I'm a fanboy of Windows. I work with a variety of OS at home and at work on both side of the fence. Every OS has it's use cases.
     
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  35. andrewaggb

    andrewaggb Limp Gawd

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    Grrr. Honestly I paused updates on several of my machines so I only had to deal with rebooting it once a month.
     
  36. SamuelL421

    SamuelL421 Limp Gawd

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    I'm sure the good folks of the internet will eventually start rolling out unofficial patches. I built a Windows 98se system earlier this year for retro/DOS gaming, I have probably applied something like 75-100 unofficial patches and fixes for everything from security, software compatibility, plug and play support (sort of), supported drive size, etc, etc.... My point is, given all the users who still have Windows 7, I'm sure that OS will get support for the community for many years to come.


    Don't be so quick to assume MS won't try to screw up Windows 7 yet. I have had an older system running Windows 7 that got "bricked" last spring thanks to MS negligent update practices. The computer in question is old but met all the minimum OS specs and ran Win 7 for years before MS decided that they no longer cared if you had purchased Windows 7 for your old computer with an SSE-only processor. I may have purchased that OS 10 years ago but that doesn't give them the right to update the minimum requirements and effectively end support early.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  37. AceGoober

    AceGoober Live! Laug[H]! Overclock!

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    Windows 10 would probably gain a larger market share if Microsoft would release higher quality updates which don't bork systems or cause issues with existing software. Due diligence doesn't seem to be part of their SoP as of late.
     
  38. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. It doesn't matter how good firewalls, behavioral practiced or any other controls you have if your OS has known unpatched exploits.

    This is why we can't have nice things.
     
  39. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    If no appropriate software workaround exists that can make a specific servers worload secure, then certainly it should come down.

    Servers can get away with having some specific open vulnerabilities, because they have highly specialized workloads that can be designed around those vulnerabilities. If they can't be worked around for the application they are used for - however - they should definitely come down.

    I don't care who you are. It's better to be down than to be pwned. Sure there Will be some costs associated with it, but any other conclusion is very shortsighted. Security should always be #1.

    Clients are different. Because of their general purpose nature, running all sorts of uncontrolled GUI software, any unpatched exploits is a bad idea.
     
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  40. Delicieuxz

    Delicieuxz Gawd

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    DX12 is a dud, anyway. Most games don't use it and those that do often have worse performance in DX12 mode than they do in DX11. Plus, Vulkan, which accomplishes the same thing as DX12, is available in Windows 7.