Windows 10 Is A Free Upgrade For All 7 And 8.1 Users

[Zarathustra[H]]

right, " ideal." That's why Microsoft couldn't even be bothered to enable Metro for their own Microsoft MCE remote.

You still need KBM to drive an HTC with Metro, brains.

Uhm, my WMC remote works just fine to navigate Metro.

My biggest gripe is that the Netflix app is pooy programmed, so when I launch it, the remote is uauelesa, and I need to grab the keyboard.

 

[mw8t]

right, " ideal." That's why Microsoft couldn't even be bothered to enable Metro for their own Microsoft MCE remote.

You still need KBM to drive an HTC with Metro, brains.

Microsoft MCE remote

I'll stick to my Logitech Harmony thanks

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

True, however I should have added in my initial post HTPC/Steam Big Picture users

Not many 'cost effective' devices are going to be capable of running GTA V @ 1080P/4K

That is a good point. I admit I don't really think in those terms. PC games for me are things that you do on your laptop and the big screen things are kinda reserved for the Wii and other consoles.

 

[heatlesssun]

There is a reason everyone who has made a GUI for a computer (Apple, Microsoft and X on *nix, as well as some other minor players along the way like Commodore's Amiga) all coalesced around a similar Window/desktop design. Because it is the most effective way to use a computer.

The bulk of computing devices sold today don't have integrated mice and keyboards and those input methods are secondary. One thing that has occurred in the Windows 8 era is much wider variety of devices, many that also do not have integrated mice and keyboards but will work with them effectively when attached.

PC hardware is changing. Devices are smaller, more battery efficient, many touch or even pen capable. Windows can't just be for desktops and conventional clamshell laptops geared solely for keyboard and mouse operation. That's just not enough anymore, especially in the consumer space. That's not to say that these things have no place and aren't important particularly with traditional productivity tasks. But now we have other kinds of form factors and input methods that are part of the mix. And they aren't totally incapable of at least some productive work.

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

The bulk of computing devices sold today don't have integrated mice and keyboards and those input methods are secondary. One thing that has occurred in the Windows 8 era is much wider variety of devices, many that also do not have integrated mice and keyboards but will work with them effectively when attached.

PC hardware is changing. Devices are smaller, more battery efficient, many touch or even pen capable. Windows can't just be for desktops and conventional clamshell laptops geared solely for keyboard and mouse operation. That's just not enough anymore, especially in the consumer space. That's not to say that these things have no place and aren't important particularly with traditional productivity tasks. But now we have other kinds of form factors and input methods that are part of the mix. And they aren't totally incapable of at least some productive work.

You were JUST excluding things from the category of "real computer" a few pages back and here you are now citing how the bulk of computing devices sold don't include mice and keyboards just because it's variously advantageous or not to your present argument.

 

[heatlesssun]

You were JUST excluding things from the category of "real computer" a few pages back and here you are now citing how the bulk of computing devices sold don't include mice and keyboards just because it's variously advantageous or not to your present argument.

And if you read those posts I wasn't the one that bought up "real computer", it was Zarathustra. The point I was making about mobile OS devices is that they are almost exclusively designed for touch only and have no consideration for PC workstation concerns. That doesn't make them anymore or less a real computer. But they are not designed to do the type of work of computers that Zarathustra was referring to as "real computers".

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

And if you read those posts I wasn't the one that bought up "real computer", it was Zarathustra. The point I was making about mobile OS devices is that they are almost exclusively designed for touch only and have no consideration for PC workstation concerns. That doesn't make them anymore or less a real computer. But they are not designed to do the type of work of computers that Zarathustra was referring to as "real computers".

Yup, blame everything on everyone else. *shakes head in disdain* I swear, heatlesssuns these days are just getting worse and worse about accepting responsibility for their nefarious misuse of "real computers" in forum posts. What's the world coming to?

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

The bulk of computing devices sold today don't have integrated mice and keyboards and those input methods are secondary. One thing that has occurred in the Windows 8 era is much wider variety of devices, many that also do not have integrated mice and keyboards but will work with them effectively when attached.

PC hardware is changing. Devices are smaller, more battery efficient, many touch or even pen capable. Windows can't just be for desktops and conventional clamshell laptops geared solely for keyboard and mouse operation. That's just not enough anymore, especially in the consumer space. That's not to say that these things have no place and aren't important particularly with traditional productivity tasks. But now we have other kinds of form factors and input methods that are part of the mix. And they aren't totally incapable of at least some productive work.

I don't disagree with the top part, all I am saying is there is no good reason to force a poor user interface on those who are using mouse and keyboards.

There is nothing wrong with using a shared base, but forcing a unified user interface is just plain dumb.

 

[heatlesssun]

I don't disagree with the top part, all I am saying is there is no good reason to force a poor user interface on those who are using mouse and keyboards.

There is nothing wrong with using a shared base, but forcing a unified user interface is just plain dumb.

Not if it's well executed. The Windows 10 UI is still a hybrid but it designed with better consideration for traditional Windows users and I don't see it causing anywhere near the same kinds of problems for these folks.

Windows 8 didn't take into consideration traditional Windows users well enough, I've said that from day one. That situation did improve with 8.1 and 8.1 Update however. It looks to improve even more significantly with Windows 10. I view tablet and hybrid operation as critical to the future of Windows because it offers a path to device consolidation which in turn can lead to economic benefit for consumers and even businesses. The old mantra, doing more with less.

 

[Ryokurin]

Apple used to sell Lion (10.7) on a thumb drive, but they don't any more. I expect you might get them to send you an install thumb drive by calling 1-800-MY-APPLE if you manage to get yourself into a position where that is your only option. If you do, please post your story; it should be quite entertaining.

You can also make it yourself, either by command line or getting the diskmaker X utility. Push comes to shove you can also buy a copy off ebay.

 

[KarsusTG]

Well I for one am looking forward to seeing what the windows 10 roll out has in store for us. I certainly will not adopt a subscription based OS, however I just purchased an Asus T100 and windows 8.1 works fantastic on it. I can definitely see the benefits of a cross platform OS. Windows 10 will hopefully be a more tweak-able OS that lets us set it up more for desktops if it's on a desktop.

There are features that I don't get to use because I refuse to use a Microsoft account on my home PC. Most normal users will never understand that position however as security isn't at the forefront of their thoughts when dealing with these things.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

You can also make it yourself, either by command line or getting the diskmaker X utility. Push comes to shove you can also buy a copy off ebay.

Yeah,

Part of the problem is that if your computer is down and you need to restore, you can't.

It is especially a problem if the mac that is down is the only Mac in the household, as you can't access the Mac App Store (or whatever the hell it is called) from a non-mac.

Granted, less of a problem with the restore partitions and the firmwares ability to do an ethernet restore though.

The firmware ethernet OS restore is a brilliant and sleek implementation. I'm not as crazy about having a 650MB restore partition on the drive though (especially since my SO's Mac only has a small SSD, and all storage is on my file server.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Not if it's well executed. The Windows 10 UI is still a hybrid but it designed with better consideration for traditional Windows users and I don't see it causing anywhere near the same kinds of problems for these folks.

I'll keep an open mind until it is launched and I see the final product first hand, but it is my personal opinion that "one size fits all" solutions are rarely effective.

You might be able to get to the point where 99% of the time, the one size fits all product is just as good for both parties, but that 1% of the time is going to be fucking annoying.

Comparison to clothing just for fun...

 

[rudy]

Home theaters are expensive, complicated, and return little benefit for their investment which is why they have a very small number of existing instances. HTPCs are even more rare and mostly are the domain of tech-y people who install a computer where many other more cost effective, simpler devices would be more than adequate. In fact, given the big selection in inexpensive smart TV devices out there, I'd say that HTPCs are pretty much an obsolete leftover from the last decade. Pretty much no mainstream PC company is targeting that market with retail products so I think it's reasonable to say they're a non-factor in software and hardware development.

This market is so big and interesting that the entire development cycle of all modern consoles has a huge emphasis on entertainment, movie watching and music. And Xbox partnered with a large speaker maker polk audio in this effort. Maybe you just have a bizarre definition of what HT is. You don't need $10,000 in speakers to qualify as HT.

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

This market is so big and interesting that the entire development cycle of all modern consoles has a huge emphasis on entertainment, movie watching and music. And Xbox partnered with a large speaker maker polk audio in this effort. Maybe you just have a bizarre definition of what HT is. You don't need $10,000 in speakers to qualify as HT.

As a member of the PC master race *snerk* your fellow PC master race...zians should probably exile you for referring to a modern console as a HTPC as they'll attest that consoles are absolutely not PCs and that you're a failure for considering it.

As for the meaning of "HT" that'd be a home theater as in a theater at home. Most people's TVs sitting on stands in front of their sofa are TVs sitting on stands in front of sofas and are not theaters at home even if they like to e-peen the size of the screen by placing emphasis on the individual digits when telling their coworkers about their latest purchase by saying, "I dun got me a fiiiiiiiifteeee-fiiiiiiiiiive inch teeeveee from that thar Best Buy them city slickers are a sellin!"

 

[Modred189]

There are home theaters and then there are Home Theaters.
If you called Bob Villa, bought a bunch of giant leather recliners, a drop down screen, projector and IMAX certified speakers. You have the later, and I am jealous.
That said, I have a home theater and am very happy, despite having spent a fraction of the money. If you bought it all at once
60 Plasma and Entertainment center= $1000
Receiver and speakers= $600 total (maybe)
HTPC and XBO with accessories= $1100

So, for less than $3k, I can play console games, PC games, blurays, DVDs, music, streaming of any kind, all at 1080p with 5.1 surround sound. The return on that investment has been high, and continues to climb every time there is a major sporting event, I have friends or family over, or I want to kick back after a long day after the kid and wife hits the sack.

And even among the PC mater racezians (I like it!), it's a respectable setup, if not top of the line (capable htpc, yamaha receiver, polk rear, center and sub with Boston Acoustic front side channels and a Samsung plasma). But it's DEFINITELY a home theater.

 

[rudy]

As a member of the PC master race *snerk* your fellow PC master race...zians should probably exile you for referring to a modern console as a HTPC as they'll attest that consoles are absolutely not PCs and that you're a failure for considering it.

As for the meaning of "HT" that'd be a home theater as in a theater at home. Most people's TVs sitting on stands in front of their sofa are TVs sitting on stands in front of sofas and are not theaters at home even if they like to e-peen the size of the screen by placing emphasis on the individual digits when telling their coworkers about their latest purchase by saying, "I dun got me a fiiiiiiiifteeee-fiiiiiiiiiive inch teeeveee from that thar Best Buy them city slickers are a sellin!"

You see you are going to have to clearly define HT if you want to act like that. What makes it, the presence of a projector? How many watts your speakers consume? Does your screen need to be 200 inches or larger?

I did not refer to a console as an HTPC I mentioned consoles as a clear example of how mass market targeted products care about HT. If HT wasn't worth consideration then these consoles would not be shipping with blu ray playback software, hi definition audio processing and output, etc....

 

[DPI]

Uhm, my WMC remote works just fine to navigate Metro.

Last time I tried driving Metro with a MCE remote was with Windows 8.0, shortly before deactivating Metro altogether and never looking back. It absolutely didn't respond to MCE remote codes. Perhaps this is something MS finally pulled their heads out and fixed in 8.1, I wouldn't know. Great if that's the case, and hopefully they'll keep it through Windows 10 instead of abandoning like so many features that were thrown under the bus between 7->8 and 8->8.1.

My biggest gripe is that the Netflix app is pooy programmed, so when I launch it, the remote is useless, and I need to grab the keyboard.

Welcome to Metro App suck.

Microsoft MCE remote

I'll stick to my Logitech Harmony thanks

You do realize the Harmony is just emulating MCE remote. I use a Harmony as well.

 

[Ryokurin]

You do realize the Harmony is just emulating MCE remote. I use a Harmony as well.

That's your problem.

There's a couple of different profiles for Harmony remotes and MCE. Some of them don't support keyboard commands, others do, but needs the original MCE receiver and others are meant for 3rd party receivers. I have an original MCE receiver and remote from Media Center 2005 and it worked just fine in 8 and 8.1 can't say the same about every key on my Harmony remote though, unless I specifically make sure the profile is MCE Keyboard.

 

[ManofGod]

Free is excellent! I have not heard one way or the other whether Media Center is going to be available or not. If not, is anything going to replace it?

 

[mope54]

Yeah,

Part of the problem is that if your computer is down and you need to restore, you can't.

It is especially a problem if the mac that is down is the only Mac in the household, as you can't access the Mac App Store (or whatever the hell it is called) from a non-mac.

Granted, less of a problem with the restore partitions and the firmwares ability to do an ethernet restore though.

The firmware ethernet OS restore is a brilliant and sleek implementation. I'm not as crazy about having a 650MB restore partition on the drive though (especially since my SO's Mac only has a small SSD, and all storage is on my file server.

this is a bizarre tangent that you're on

there is no problem

the only computers that can't do internet recovery are those older than 2010
the 650mb partition is not in usable space, it's not necessary for internet recovery, and includes safari, disk utility for formatting,partitioning, and checking drives, terminal, and the ability to recover the entire drive from a Time Machine backup. it's not required for the internet recovery and it's silly to argue that it takes up a non-negligible amount of space on the hard drive (ignoring the fact it's in reserved space anyway).

I'm not even sure why you're on this tangent. none of this is even possible with a windows install. you have to build something like BartPE or a linux liveCD to approach anything remotely close to the functionality of that recovery partition, can't recover from an image without 3rd party software, and impossible to clean install from the internet--firmware or otherwise.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Last time I tried driving Metro with a MCE remote was with Windows 8.0, shortly before deactivating Metro altogether and never looking back. It absolutely didn't respond to MCE remote codes. Perhaps this is something MS finally pulled their heads out and fixed in 8.1, I wouldn't know. Great if that's the case, and hopefully they'll keep it through Windows 10 instead of abandoning like so many features that were thrown under the bus between 7->8 and 8->8.1.

Well, I only first got Windows 8 in April of 2013.

One of the first things I did after installing was plug in my MCE remote to test and it worked right away. This was before 8.1. Maybe it was broken in the very beginning, but I never had that problem.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

this is a bizarre tangent that you're on

there is no problem

the only computers that can't do internet recovery are those older than 2010
the 650mb partition is not in usable space, it's not necessary for internet recovery, and includes safari, disk utility for formatting,partitioning, and checking drives, terminal, and the ability to recover the entire drive from a Time Machine backup. it's not required for the internet recovery and it's silly to argue that it takes up a non-negligible amount of space on the hard drive (ignoring the fact it's in reserved space anyway).

I'm not even sure why you're on this tangent. none of this is even possible with a windows install. you have to build something like BartPE or a linux liveCD to approach anything remotely close to the functionality of that recovery partition, can't recover from an image without 3rd party software, and impossible to clean install from the internet--firmware or otherwise.

I feel like I was just praising them for their "Ethernet capability in firmware to restore". (and praise for anything Apple is pretty rare from me)

My only gripe is that IF you need an install image (which is less likely now that this firmware exists) you need another Mac ti grab it, as it isn't easily downloadable using anything else.

 

[nilepez]

I don't recall transitioning from Win9x to XP to be painful at all.

I agree.

the problems stemming from Win8 are that they were trying to force a user interface that makes perfect sense for tablets onto users of desktops and laptops where it makes no sense at all, and was a huge step backwards.

If you're running 8.1, the only time you see the start screen is when you want to run a program, but assuming you use 7 correctly, it's identical:
Click Start Button/key
Type program you want
Press return

Result: A window pops up with your app and the desktop is still there.

It's not perfect, but it's not that different. I really don't get how a bunch of computer enthusiasts are finding this confusing of difficult. Hell, it only took me a few minutes enable gadgets.

I'm sure I'll find things that annoy me. I'm sure there are things that won't work (I did an in place upgrade, which I normally avoid), but it's that different.

 

[nilepez]

That is a good point. I admit I don't really think in those terms. PC games for me are things that you do on your laptop and the big screen things are kinda reserved for the Wii and other consoles.

Laptops are for work and if you're on a plane. Games are for a desktop computer or a TV.
Even really nice laptops to me suffer from the fatal flaw of being a laptop with a me keyboard and a touch pad. If you're breaking out a separate KB/mouse and monitor, then it's fine, but now it's really a desktop in a small package.

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

Laptops are for work and if you're on a plane. Games are for a desktop computer or a TV.
Even really nice laptops to me suffer from the fatal flaw of being a laptop with a me keyboard and a touch pad. If you're breaking out a separate KB/mouse and monitor, then it's fine, but now it's really a desktop in a small package.

Eh, desktops are okay, but I just never liked using one. I've done the whole make your own desktop before and it just was never a comfy being stuck at a desk with this old, obsolete box thing with a half dozen or more wires sticking out of it. It's much more comfy for me to curl up with a laptop anywhere I want so I've been gaming mostly on one or on my old netbook. Since business class laptops are getting constantly retired from companies, it's super cheap to pick up an older Dell Latitude or HP Probook and they're great for playing games because they tend to have cooling that is overkill. Right now, I play most Windows games on a Latitude e6320 with a HD3000 (which is great for Sims3) and my Linux stuff works fine on Atoms and C2Ds with GMA950s. For me desktop gaming is totally pointless and my only console is an old Wii that I hardly ever turn on since I'm worried about bumping my poor kitty cat...plus Wii Fit and Sports Resort aren't at all very good exercise if you're already in reasonable shape to begin with.

 

[nilepez]

Eh, desktops are okay, but I just never liked using one. I've done the whole make your own desktop before and it just was never a comfy being stuck at a desk with this old, obsolete box thing with a half dozen or more wires sticking out of it. It's much more comfy for me to curl up with a laptop anywhere I want so I've been gaming mostly on one or on my old netbook. Since business class laptops are getting constantly retired from companies, it's super cheap to pick up an older Dell Latitude or HP Probook and they're great for playing games because they tend to have cooling that is overkill. Right now, I play most Windows games on a Latitude e6320 with a HD3000 (which is great for Sims3) and my Linux stuff works fine on Atoms and C2Ds with GMA950s. For me desktop gaming is totally pointless and my only console is an old Wii that I hardly ever turn on since I'm worried about bumping my poor kitty cat...plus Wii Fit and Sports Resort aren't at all very good exercise if you're already in reasonable shape to begin with.

I can type roughly 60-70 WPM on a normal keyboard. Can't even come close to that on a laptop and I definitely can't walk around with a laptop, Logitech MX(or Revolution or 1000) and a Ratpad all over the house to play a game, though I guess I could carry a game pad with me, but anyway you look at it, I'm hauling crap and laptop screens are, generally, small low res...some of the more expensive ones have higher res, but I could put a machine on my desk and another under the TV for that...and the TV will hide the wires.

To each his/her own, but if I had a laptop, it'd be docked most of the time.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I can type roughly 60-70 WPM on a normal keyboard. Can't even come close to that on a laptop and I definitely can't walk around with a laptop, Logitech MX(or Revolution or 1000) and a Ratpad all over the house to play a game, though I guess I could carry a game pad with me, but anyway you look at it, I'm hauling crap and laptop screens are, generally, small low res...some of the more expensive ones have higher res, but I could put a machine on my desk and another under the TV for that...and the TV will hide the wires.

To each his/her own, but if I had a laptop, it'd be docked most of the time.

CUG is trolling as always.

He may or may not be telling the truth about his preferences, but he definitely knows that most people who come here prefer the desktop experience, so he is just trying to get a rise out of people.

Personally, I consider the desktop gaming experience the end all of gaming experiences. I don't even bother on any other platform or in any other configuration.

Haven't had any console since I retired the 8bit Nintendo when I got my first PC of my own in '91, I don't play any games on my phone, and games (or anything else) on a laptop make no sense at all to me. Laptops are an ergonomic disaster IMHO, causing back pain, cramps and blurred vision, while being too small to have any real performance,and not upgradeable.

So, that's where I stand. Games are not games, if they aren't at my desk on my desktop.

 

[evilsofa]

So, that's where I stand. Games are not games, if they aren't at my desk on my desktop.

Say that in the HardOCP console gaming forum and see how much testosterone and explosions gets thrown your way!

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

I can type roughly 60-70 WPM on a normal keyboard. Can't even come close to that on a laptop and I definitely can't walk around with a laptop, Logitech MX(or Revolution or 1000) and a Ratpad all over the house to play a game, though I guess I could carry a game pad with me, but anyway you look at it, I'm hauling crap and laptop screens are, generally, small low res...some of the more expensive ones have higher res, but I could put a machine on my desk and another under the TV for that...and the TV will hide the wires.

To each his/her own, but if I had a laptop, it'd be docked most of the time.

I actually do a lot of writing with my computers and text entry is really important to me. Yes, I'm lots faster on a full size keyboard too, but I don't like having to be at a specific place to use one so I just give up on whatever the difference is (I have no idea how many WPM I can type on different keyboards but it doesn't seem that much slower on even my awful netbook keyboard) and I hardly ever plug in an external mouse because most of the things I do aren't games and the games I do play usually work fine with just a touchpad. Resolution...meh 1024x600 is enough though websites start to feel a little bit cramped sometimes. I just could never get into convincing myself there's a burning need for more pixels.

CUG is trolling as always.

He may or may not be telling the truth about his preferences, but he definitely knows that most people who come here prefer the desktop experience, so he is just trying to get a rise out of people.

Personally, I consider the desktop gaming experience the end all of gaming experiences. I don't even bother on any other platform or in any other configuration.

Haven't had any console since I retired the 8bit Nintendo when I got my first PC of my own in '91, I don't play any games on my phone, and games (or anything else) on a laptop make no sense at all to me. Laptops are an ergonomic disaster IMHO, causing back pain, cramps and blurred vision, while being too small to have any real performance,and not upgradeable.

So, that's where I stand. Games are not games, if they aren't at my desk on my desktop.

As for you and your disbelief, I lined up a glam shot of my Asus 1005HAB and Latitude e6320 with my awesome Sims 3 disc and Grumpy Cat for you (which let me know the flash thing isn't working in my camera >.<) because it's so impossible to believe that people can have fun and do everything they personally want with integrated graphics inside of notebooks and netbooks. If you still wanna disbelieve and resort to name-calling because of awful image quality and your old-guy bad eyes, I can wait until theres more daylight and take another pic.

 

[kbrickley]

CUG is trolling as always.

He may or may not be telling the truth about his preferences, but he definitely knows that most people who come here prefer the desktop experience, so he is just trying to get a rise out of people.

Personally, I consider the desktop gaming experience the end all of gaming experiences. I don't even bother on any other platform or in any other configuration.

Haven't had any console since I retired the 8bit Nintendo when I got my first PC of my own in '91, I don't play any games on my phone, and games (or anything else) on a laptop make no sense at all to me. Laptops are an ergonomic disaster IMHO, causing back pain, cramps and blurred vision, while being too small to have any real performance,and not upgradeable.

So, that's where I stand. Games are not games, if they aren't at my desk on my desktop.

I tend to agree ... I have been a computer gamer since my first one (an Apple II+ in 1981) ... the desktop is a perfect platform for two types of niche users (the gamer and the extreme power user like a CAD engineer or animator) which is why they are a small niche of the market now

for normal everyday work a notebook is the most effective tool (hard to lug my desktop down to Mexico every time I need to visit our factories there) and for the average user who doesn't want to be tied down to a fixed location and isn't a power user or power gamer the notebook is more than sufficient (especially given the improvements in processors, drives, and screens) ... Even the much maligned tablet has its uses, primarily for the frequent traveler or big city commuter (much easier to use a tablet on an airplane or subway train than a full laptop)

I am intrigued by the idea of a Steambox/HTPC where I could game on the much bigger displays I use for TV and movies and that has been one of the selling points of consoles in the past as more and more people installed 50-70 inch displays in their living room for TV viewing ... I need a new computer as I am still using an E8400 based system so I am torn between a steambox for my TV area and a high end desktop PC for my office area of the house

 

[heatlesssun]

for normal everyday work a notebook is the most effective tool (hard to lug my desktop down to Mexico every time I need to visit our factories there) and for the average user who doesn't want to be tied down to a fixed location and isn't a power user or power gamer the notebook is more than sufficient (especially given the improvements in processors, drives, and screens) ... Even the much maligned tablet has its uses, primarily for the frequent traveler or big city commuter (much easier to use a tablet on an airplane or subway train than a full laptop)

Mobility is a much more important concern for the average PC than top end performance.

I am intrigued by the idea of a Steambox/HTPC where I could game on the much bigger displays I use for TV and movies and that has been one of the selling points of consoles in the past as more and more people installed 50-70 inch displays in their living room for TV viewing ... I need a new computer as I am still using an E8400 based system so I am torn between a steambox for my TV area and a high end desktop PC for my office area of the house

I think challenge for SteamOS/Linux got significantly larger with the year free upgrade period for Windows 10. The adoption rate of 10 is likely to very rapid and developers are much likely to be concerned with things like DX 12 and even modern apps than Linux.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

As for you and your disbelief, I lined up a glam shot of my Asus 1005HAB and Latitude e6320 with my awesome Sims 3 disc and Grumpy Cat for you (which let me know the flash thing isn't working in my camera >.<) because it's so impossible to believe that people can have fun and do everything they personally want with integrated graphics inside of notebooks and netbooks. If you still wanna disbelieve and resort to name-calling because of awful image quality and your old-guy bad eyes, I can wait until theres more daylight and take another pic.

Didn't say I didn't believe you. I did say "may or may not", but I did suggest that you were using that fact to get a rise out of people

You know, at some point it's tough to tell. A little bit of "boy who cried wolf" going on here

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I lug my work laptop with me when I have to travel for work, but I find it absolutely obnoxious to get anything done on, without my docking station at my desk at work, in which case I have essentially transformed it to an expensive under powered desktop

It is certainly better than not having anything at all when traveling, but the tiny little keyboards, trackpads tiny screens and the obnoxious curled over unergonomic positions one has to contort oneself into in order to use one without a docking station, make them close to useless to do any real work for me.

The work position is so awful, that I can't focus on what I am supposed to be doing, and if I try for more than like 20 minutes, I wind up with a literal pain in my neck

 

[msny]

I don't understand why so many people are analyzing and nitpicking every word from Microsoft.

For the first year Windows 10 is released it will be a free upgrade for current 7, 8, 8.1. After that year if you want to upgrade to Windows 10 you will have to purchase it, its that simple. Why is this so hard to understand? There is no subscription model mentioned or even hinted anywhere so calm down.

Probably the same people that jumped on the "Windows 8/8.1 is terrible" bandwagon without even trying it.

It's that many people get suspicious when the word "free" gets used.
Nothing is FREE, MS is a business intent on making money, not losing it.

It's equivalent to saying.
"Free ocean property in Minnesota"
which is open to interpretation.
THINK about it.

They will make money on this, even if it's downstream from the initial 10 release
give a way. If you see only good intentions in this your have been deceived!

Business is here to make money not supply you with a welfare OS.

 

[heatlesssun]

It's that many people get suspicious when the word "free" gets used.
Nothing is FREE, MS is a business intent on making money, not losing it.

It's equivalent to saying.
"Free ocean property in Minnesota"
which is open to interpretation.
THINK about it.

They will make money on this, even if it's downstream from the initial 10 release
give a way. If you see only good intentions in this your have been deceived!

Business is here to make money not supply you with a welfare OS.

Of course the intent isn't to loose money. The thing is that many people don't see to realize that most Windows PCs NEVER get an OS upgrade today. Microsoft currently doesn't make any money on the bulk of existing PC users via OS upgrades. So by giving away the OS, Microsoft isn't loosing anything because it never would have sold the OS upgrade to most to anyway.

Giving the upgrade away for a year should see the highest upgrade rates ever in the history of Windows. And with 10 there's services and apps that Microsoft can generate money from that it can't with Windows 7 and prior. And reducing fragmentation means more developers can focus more on the new stuff, creating better revenue opportunities for developers.

The current at cost model for Windows has long been seen by many as an unsustainable business model particularly in the consumer space. No other platform in the consumer space charges for OS upgrades so it's something that Microsoft long term doesn't really have much of a choice anyway. Give away and/or sell the OS at low cost and make the money on other things, services, apps and now even PC hardware. In general these things are much easier to sell to consumers today.

 

[Exavior]

It's that many people get suspicious when the word "free" gets used.
Nothing is FREE, MS is a business intent on making money, not losing it.

It's equivalent to saying.
"Free ocean property in Minnesota"
which is open to interpretation.
THINK about it.

They will make money on this, even if it's downstream from the initial 10 release
give a way. If you see only good intentions in this your have been deceived!

Business is here to make money not supply you with a welfare OS.

Apple hasn't charged for the last few updates, people have said that Microsoft should do the same. So they are doing the same. It is as simple as that.

Microsoft will make money on this by you buying apps, by selling you something else for windows. Also even with it being free not everyone is going to take them up on that offer. Not everyone running windows vista or 7 took them up on the $40 upgrade. While not free, that is a major discount compared to normal cost. So they will still make money off of those who don't jump on this.

This is no different than any one else give away OS upgrades at no cost.

 

[rudy]

The current at cost model for Windows has long been seen by many as an unsustainable business model particularly in the consumer space. No other platform in the consumer space charges for OS upgrades so it's something that Microsoft long term doesn't really have much of a choice anyway. Give away and/or sell the OS at low cost and make the money on other things, services, apps and now even PC hardware. In general these things are much easier to sell to consumers today.

Arguing this point is not going to make a the poster think any differently. If you argue that MS is going to start giving away windows for free from here on out then the poster is right there is another catch to this. If that model is forced on MS then why would OEMs pay MS?

The argument is that this is a one off event to help kickstart development for the windows app store. After they move the active world to windows 10 they will go back to their original model.

As a PC builder I have no interest in a future for windows where windows is free, this means that MS will change policy on major issues that would scare most people here. For instance they would probably switch to strictly enforcing OEM licensing where if you change hardware you will have to buy a new key. They may start to enforce stricter limits on what can be installed on a machine to push more people to buy store apps.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Apple hasn't charged for the last few updates, people have said that Microsoft should do the same. So they are doing the same. It is as simple as that.

Except there is a big difference between Apple and Microsoft.

Apple comouter business earns their income from selling computers. Development costs for the OS are a support/loss leader to drive the hardware side of the business.

Except for a few exceptions (*cough* surface *cough*) Microsoft doesn't do the same. Giving their OS away for free means losing one of their major revenue sources.

 

[Elledan]

tl;dr: I'm not 'upgrading' to Windows 10 from 7.

I paid 179 Euro for my copy of Windows 7 x64 Ultimate. I'm totally happy with the OS, UI and everything.

I also have the Windows 10 Technical Preview running VM and have played with it for the past months.

In short, I see even a free Windows 10 as a downgrade for Win7. Worse UI, frustrating integration with Microsoft services (better than in Win8, but still...) and the horrible flat look. Next to Windows 7's Aero Glass desktop it looks pitiful and it's much harder to distinguish individual windows without having all of the 3D cues Win7's UI offers.

I couldn't care less about the 'technological improvements' Windows 10 supposedly offers if it means having to downgrade my day to day user experience.

This from someone who gleefully upgraded from Win95 SR2 to Win98 SE to Win2k, to XP and finally Windows 7. While I could forgive Vista as an unfortunate fluke, Windows 8.x and now Windows 10 merely shows me that Microsoft has lost touch with its userbase.

I like Modern UI on tablets and phones, but please, keep it the hell away from my PCs and laptops. Also give me back the usable UI we've had since Windows bloody 95.