Windows 10 Is A Free Upgrade For All 7 And 8.1 Users

[leezard]

Microsoft: Windows 10 will not be sold as a subscription

and here

"once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost. With Windows 10, the experience will evolve and get even better over time. We’ll deliver new features when they’re ready, not waiting for the next major release."

 

[heatlesssun]

The problem with most ARM devices is the extent to which they lock down the users ability to use the software and operating systems of their choice, force 3rd party apps to play in sandboxes, and limit user direct file system access.

What's interesting about this is that with Windows none of these restrictions exist. However many will say that tablets should avoid this complexity. By the time you allow a tablet to be open, support keyboards, mice, external monitors, run windowed apps on a desktop you exactly what Windows 8.x/10 is.

 

[Blank-Minded]

That information was already posted. The people in this thread complaining about Microsoft are more fond of FUD and paranoia than facts and critical thinking.

Seriously, Microsoft isn't going to license Windows through a subscription service. They just wouldn't make any money from it. Stop trying to read some idiotic male intent into them giving away stuff for free. Trying to read everything in the worse possible light does not make you seem smarter.

You want to know their ulterior motive? Simple! They want to increase consumer adoption of their new platform! Why do they want this? Simple! They want people to buy into their Microsoft ecosystem like people do with Google and their Android and ChromeOS devices. Scary, right? They giving away something for free because they believe it'll put their customers in a better position to buy things from them! Like every other major tech company!

(Also, we can stop trying to feel smug with ourselves because the people we're talking to makes grammatical errors? Like, 90% of that happens, the person pointing out the grammatical errors are either wrong or made errors themselves in the very same post.)

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

iOS doesn't officially support mice and while Android does support for mice in apps isn't guaranteed. There's no consideration for mice in iOS or Android apps currently. It works or not only by coincidence. Beyond iOS and Android aren't really designed in mind to work as a workstation with things like multiple monitors or real docking stations.

I can't speak for IOS, but I have used both mice and keyboards in Android, and have yet to come across a situation where either failed to work.

 

[heatlesssun]

I can't speak for IOS, but I have used both mice and keyboards in Android, and have yet to come across a situation where either failed to work.

Of the 1.5 million Android apps out there, how many have any consideration for mice? Of course a lot of things work for the simple reason that a tap and a keyboard click are essentially equivalent and those are by far the most common interactions with mice and touchscreens, clicks and taps.

However when it comes to doing things like drag and drop, multiple selection, resizing windows, moving them across multiple screens, things that are common workstation scenarios, there's going to many problems doing those things with Android and iOS. That's not a slam, they are touch first OSes and they currently aren't meant for workstation purposes. Windows tablets on the other hand and very much designed for workstation purposes and the notion of hybrid operation in Windows 10 is a top level UI consideration.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

What's interesting about this is that with Windows none of these restrictions exist. However many will say that tablets should avoid this complexity. By the time you allow a tablet to be open, support keyboards, mice, external monitors, run windowed apps on a desktop you exactly what Windows 8.x/10 is.

As long as it's not Windows RT, right?

I agree, as far as tablets go, the Windows 8 Pro tablets are the best tablets the world has ever seen, as they have the full capability of a desktop.

It is - however - troubling that this forces you into getting a Microsoft account (yes, I know there are local only accounts, but they wind up locking you out of many features), integrating you into Microsofts cloud infrastructure, which I want no part of what so ever, and forcing the metro-style tile interface down traditional desktop users throats.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Of the 1.5 million Android apps out there, how many have any consideration for mice? Of course a lot of things work for the simple reason that a tap and a keyboard click are essentially equivalent and those are by far the most common interactions with mice and touchscreens, clicks and taps.

However when it comes to doing things like drag and drop, multiple selection, resizing windows, moving them across multiple screens, things that are common workstation scenarios, there's going to many problems doing those things with Android and iOS. That's not a slam, they are touch first OSes and they currently aren't meant for workstation purposes. Windows tablets on the other hand and very much designed for workstation purposes and the notion of hybrid operation in Windows 10 is a top level UI consideration.

This I agree with. I wouldn't even know how to put an app in a windowed mode.

I have just used the mouse for clicking (like you would tapping on screen) and the keyboard for typing into text fields (like you would the on screen keyboard).

And I only did it because I was curious, not because it had much practical value on a small phone screen.

 

[WBurchnall]

Hopefully there's an option for clean installs as long as you have the older disks/files.
I don't want to get stuck in a cycle of an upgrade on top of an upgrade on top of another upgrade if I have to re-install.

Back in the day, on Windows Vista/7 -- there was a way to get around this. Do a clean install of Windows '7' or 'vista' and then do an in place upgrade of the same OS and now you have an upgrade copy and can use the same key.

 

[Nenu]

The upgrade feature is because you have already paid for the previous OS.
When it is made awkward to install by requiring a previous installation, that makes for an unpleasant experience.
It should be straight forward and intuitive how to do a fresh install.

 

[vr.]

It's no worse than doing a true fresh install on a mac.

 

[Nenu]

How is that helpful?

 

[vr.]

You were citing the awkward unpleasant experience. Seems biased to suggest one vendor is those things when they other guys provide the exact same experience.

 

[mope54]

It's no worse than doing a true fresh install on a mac.

how do you figure? OS X doesn't require any previous install to do a clean install. in fact, the past three iterations of OS X have been completely free.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

how do you figure? OS X doesn't require any previous install to do a clean install. in fact, the past three iterations of OS X have been completely free.

True, but you haven't been able to clean install them right?

Every official document I have read says to do a clean install of like Snow Leopard or something stupid like that, and then get the latest update online.

 

[Nenu]

Hardly biased when my consideration was that of Windows and how it isnt hard to make it simpler to get started with it.
I dont use a Mac, otherwise you might have a point.
But sadly I have less information on how it is more awkward
Good for you though.

 

[mope54]

True, but you haven't been able to clean install them right?

Every official document I have read says to do a clean install of like Snow Leopard or something stupid like that, and then get the latest update online.

You can do a clean install easily.

The things you're reading is due to OS X being distributed via the Mac Apple Store, which is first included in Snow Leopard.

So you have to get yourself to the MAS to get to the image of OS X you want to install. That's for older macs. If you have one that was released with anything after Snow Leopard then you don't even need a version at all because you can simply install from the recovery partition.

Once you have the image, however you obtain it (MAS, thumb drive, off your other device, etc.) you can simply use that. You don't have to actually update anything to Snow Leopard unless you have no other way to obtain the image.

The only caveat is that in order to do a clean install from the image you have to put it on a thumb drive. That said, you can also just buy a thumb drive directly from Apple, though.

 

[HoffY]

Nope, you are just trying to read something into what Microsoft is saying that is not there, that is all.

Absolute rubbish. You are the one reading into what others are saying and why they feel its not all that clear. For one... history. Which you seem to blindly ignore. Two... marketing. Ya know... .coz marketing is always so trustworthy and concise. Stop assuming we want the end of Microsoft when all we want is clarification on something that is clearly not fully defined and could easily be marketing spin.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

You can do a clean install easily.

The things you're reading is due to OS X being distributed via the Mac Apple Store, which is first included in Snow Leopard.

So you have to get yourself to the MAS to get to the image of OS X you want to install. That's for older macs. If you have one that was released with anything after Snow Leopard then you don't even need a version at all because you can simply install from the recovery partition.

Once you have the image, however you obtain it (MAS, thumb drive, off your other device, etc.) you can simply use that. You don't have to actually update anything to Snow Leopard unless you have no other way to obtain the image.

Ah, fair enough.

And ugh, recovery partition. How much precious space does that waste? What happens if you zap it?

The only caveat is that in order to do a clean install from the image you have to put it on a thumb drive. That said, you can also just buy a thumb drive directly from Apple, though.

I wonder how much that costs...

 

[HoffY]

I couldn't care less about cortana.

In fact, I'd prefer it weren't there at all. I'd also appreciate a way to remove ALL microsoft cloud integration.

I can't stand the fact that I have to have a "microsoft account" to use Windows 8. I've tried Local accounts, but there are so many things I can't do.

Pisses me off to no end that my local computer has to somehow be tied into a microsoft account.

I will probably upgrade my desktop Windows 7 Pro to Windows 10 with the free update, but I will disable as much of the phone/tablet interface crap as possible as well as as much as the cloud integration as possible. I will try to run it on a local account.

Either way it won't matter much, as I only boot to it once or twice a week for games. Everything else I do in Linux.

I want my phone to be more like my computer, not my computer to be more like my phone!

This is exactly it in a nutshell. I dont see how accepting a corporations increasingly slow but upward trend towards a user limited and locked-down experience is a good thing. Especially when that move is by the very company that was was born and created by the very opposite of this and by those users that supported said company throughout the endless tirades of "you're a nerd with a computer" during the companies infancy and growth. All for teh sake of "but most people cant even understand what a megabyte is so thats who we should cater for". *sigh*

 

[evilsofa]

And ugh, recovery partition. How much precious space does that waste? What happens if you zap it?

650MB. If you zap it and need it later, or replace your drive with a third-party drive, newer Macs can do afresh install of the latest version of Mac OS X via an internet connection.

I wonder how much that costs...

Apple used to sell Lion (10.7) on a thumb drive, but they don't any more. I expect you might get them to send you an install thumb drive by calling 1-800-MY-APPLE if you manage to get yourself into a position where that is your only option. If you do, please post your story; it should be quite entertaining.

 

[nilepez]

the reason I don't like imaging is because MS frequently removes certain Windows Updates or replaces it with an 'improved' version or combines patches...I have a fast download so I don't mind reinstalling everything from scratch...just feels 'better' to me

So in that case, imaging after you do the initial install works. Restoring an image, even if no patches are applied, is still faster than reinstalling.

 

[nilepez]

What is considered "life of device"? If my motherboard dies are you going to try to bone me because it's a "new PC"?

I'll skip this one, it's been asked answered a zillion times. Bottom line, nothing in this regard is changing in Windows 10.

I don't think we know that yet. Until we see the EULA, we just won't know. I believe when 8 came out the EULA was more ambiguous until enough noise was made and MS made it clear that either policy didn't change (or maybe it was that the license inherited the licensing terms of the old version of windows).

For now, the answer (to me) is "I don't know." It'll be mostly a non-issue to me, because I'm going to build a new computer this year or next, so I'll have windows 10 on at least 2 systems (and probably a VM) plus it'll be on my parents computers after I'm knowledgeable about the OS.

I've finally gone to 8.1 and while I'm not fond of going to the start screen, I use it exactly like I used the start menu in vista and 7 (i.e. type the app I'm looking for and hit return). I like the weather app, but I mostly use a very old Vista Gadget called Pro Weather.

I love that I can get 5.1 surround from Netflix. Really don't know why they don't offer that through the browser.

I may stick the next version of 10 in a VM and see how it goes, but I'm not dual booting...did that with 7 Beta, and it caused problems with my main OS. I could restore from an image, but after it happened a few times, I just waited for the RTM.

 

[Flogger23m]

I couldn't care less about cortana.

In fact, I'd prefer it weren't there at all. I'd also appreciate a way to remove ALL microsoft cloud integration.

I can't stand the fact that I have to have a "microsoft account" to use Windows 8. I've tried Local accounts, but there are so many things I can't do.

Pisses me off to no end that my local computer has to somehow be tied into a microsoft account.

I will probably upgrade my desktop Windows 7 Pro to Windows 10 with the free update, but I will disable as much of the phone/tablet interface crap as possible as well as as much as the cloud integration as possible. I will try to run it on a local account.

Either way it won't matter much, as I only boot to it once or twice a week for games. Everything else I do in Linux.

I want my phone to be more like my computer, not my computer to be more like my phone!

This. You'd be surprised at how many people don't want cloud integration; they simply don't know how to turn it off. Or that it was on in the first place.

They just want incremental improvements to keyboard and mouse driven local desktop computing. And there's a market for that but it's pretty static and is becoming less and less relevant in the consumer space as mobile devices have become far more numerous than PCs.

There are always tablets and phones for that. I'm not sure why it is so hard for some people to understand. A phone isn't replacing a computer. It is supplementing it. Planes didn't make cars obsolete. Different devices with different purposes/niches. There is some overlap, but they are different markets. For a desktop/laptop you would expect the best experience possible, not a compromise. A compromised experience isn't a good one. Likewise, same for mobile devices.

Don't get me wrong.

A smartphone (and to a lesser extent a tablet) is an excellent mobile supplement to a real computer with a real windowed operating system controlled by mouse and keyboard, but it is not now, nor will it ever be a replacement.

Again, this. People will always need a laptop/desktop for certain tasks. Regardless of which one they use more, the OS should be optimized best for the type of hardware it will run on (fixed or mobile, touch or mouse).

There shouldn't be a compromise on either side (laptop/desktop or mobile).

 

[drakken]

just in case these have not been posted.

https://winpreview.catalysis.com/registration.aspx?hfid=WRF0&loc=en-US#disclaimer

http://rcpmag.com/articles/2015/01/21/windows-10-free-upgrade.aspx

the rcpmag is Microsoft's pr thingy they send to certified professionals in their directory listing... it came out on the 21st. the other is a link from the rcp article. looks like it might be device specific like oem versions.

 

[Comixbooks]

http://www.maximumpc.com/everything_we_know_about_windows_10_2015

Not Free

 

[Comixbooks]

It's not going to be a Sub though which is cool....

 

[Comixbooks]

It's Free

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

Who are you talking to?

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Who are you talking to?

Who are YOU talking to?

 

[Modred189]

Who are you talking to?

Who are YOU talking to?

Who are you guys talking to?

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Who are you guys talking to?

 

[heatlesssun]

Again, this. People will always need a laptop/desktop for certain tasks. Regardless of which one they use more, the OS should be optimized best for the type of hardware it will run on (fixed or mobile, touch or mouse).

There shouldn't be a compromise on either side (laptop/desktop or mobile).

It's not a mutually exclusive thing. Desktops and laptops can support touch and devices like the Surface Pro 3 are specially designed to function as a tablet, laptop and even a desktop when docked.

Before Windows 8 there hadn't been an effort on the sale of Windows 8 to combine today's common input methods, application types and form factors into single entities. Of course many believe that trying to combine these things compromises each of them. But isn't needing multiple devices to achieve the same functional equivalent of one also a compromise?

From what was shown of the Windows 10 UI the other day, it looks like all of the major functional issues concerning the hybrid nature of the UI have been addressed. Some will complain about the tiles, flatness or colors but that's mostly aesthetics. The typical keyboard and mouse Windows user coming from XP, Vista or 7 isn't going to face anywhere near the learning curve that Windows 8 presented. And the UI seems to have enough configurability and auto detection to work well as a touch UI.

Some will still say that 10's is compromising keyboard and mouse use. Perhaps, but not to any significant degree it would appear for now.

 

[kbrickley]

It's not a mutually exclusive thing. Desktops and laptops can support touch and devices like the Surface Pro 3 are specially designed to function as a tablet, laptop and even a desktop when docked.

Before Windows 8 there hadn't been an effort on the sale of Windows 8 to combine today's common input methods, application types and form factors into single entities. Of course many believe that trying to combine these things compromises each of them. But isn't needing multiple devices to achieve the same functional equivalent of one also a compromise?

From what was shown of the Windows 10 UI the other day, it looks like all of the major functional issues concerning the hybrid nature of the UI have been addressed. Some will complain about the tiles, flatness or colors but that's mostly aesthetics. The typical keyboard and mouse Windows user coming from XP, Vista or 7 isn't going to face anywhere near the learning curve that Windows 8 presented. And the UI seems to have enough configurability and auto detection to work well as a touch UI.

Some will still say that 10's is compromising keyboard and mouse use. Perhaps, but not to any significant degree it would appear for now.

I think the Windows 8 all or nothing approach was what did them in ... converting the masses from the old Win9 legacy windows to a common Windows NT architecture in XP (so that MS could align the needs of consumers and enterprise) was also painful but they supported a certain amount of duality until they went to the next generation (Vista, 7) and had people totally on board (so much so that they clung to the XP generation longer than any other windows gen) ... If MS had taken the trouble to allow configuration of Win 8 between the Metro interface and the more traditional interface they could have converted people over time with far less pain ... the Cortez approach (burning your ships behind you) can work extraordinarily well or horrifically wrong (and should only be used if you are really confident or have taken careful measures to insure the first outcome rather than the later one )

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I think the Windows 8 all or nothing approach was what did them in ... converting the masses from the old Win9 legacy windows to a common Windows NT architecture in XP (so that MS could align the needs of consumers and enterprise) was also painful but they supported a certain amount of duality until they went to the next generation (Vista, 7) and had people totally on board (so much so that they clung to the XP generation longer than any other windows gen) ... If MS had taken the trouble to allow configuration of Win 8 between the Metro interface and the more traditional interface they could have converted people over time with far less pain ... the Cortez approach (burning your ships behind you) can work extraordinarily well or horrifically wrong (and should only be used if you are really confident or have taken careful measures to insure the first outcome rather than the later one )

I don't recall transitioning from Win9x to XP to be painful at all.

Maybe it was for developers, but for the end user, the interface was more or less the same, and all of my software ran just fine. The control panel changed around a bit, but it wasn't a big deal. Any minor inconvenience there was was greatlyu made up for by the added stability of protected mode memory management.

the problems stemming from Win8 are that they were trying to force a user interface that makes perfect sense for tablets onto users of desktops and laptops where it makes no sense at all, and was a huge step backwards.

There is a reason everyone who has made a GUI for a computer (Apple, Microsoft and X on *nix, as well as some other minor players along the way like Commodore's Amiga) all coalesced around a similar Window/desktop design. Because it is the most effective way to use a computer.

Microsofts push to change away from the industry standard type interface to one that is better suited for tablets was a conscious decision on their part to alianate their existing userbase in order to familiarize people with their tablet interface, in order to drive future sales of tablets (a growing market, at least at the time)

Ubuntu tried something similar with their Unity interface, and it had a similar reaction from existing users, many of which abandoned the OS in droves, and went to other distributions that better mimicked the classic desktop experience, like Mint.

For both Ubuntu and Microsoft it was a boneheaded move, and both should ahve known better. Especially Microsoft.

 

[mw8t]

I don't recall transitioning from Win9x to XP to be painful at all.

Maybe it was for developers, but for the end user, the interface was more or less the same, and all of my software ran just fine. The control panel changed around a bit, but it wasn't a big deal. Any minor inconvenience there was was greatlyu made up for by the added stability of protected mode memory management.

the problems stemming from Win8 are that they were trying to force a user interface that makes perfect sense for tablets onto users of desktops and laptops where it makes no sense at all, and was a huge step backwards.

There is a reason everyone who has made a GUI for a computer (Apple, Microsoft and X on *nix, as well as some other minor players along the way like Commodore's Amiga) all coalesced around a similar Window/desktop design. Because it is the most effective way to use a computer.

Microsofts push to change away from the industry standard type interface to one that is better suited for tablets was a conscious decision on their part to alianate their existing userbase in order to familiarize people with their tablet interface, in order to drive future sales of tablets (a growing market, at least at the time)

Ubuntu tried something similar with their Unity interface, and it had a similar reaction from existing users, many of which abandoned the OS in droves, and went to other distributions that better mimicked the classic desktop experience, like Mint.

For both Ubuntu and Microsoft it was a boneheaded move, and both should ahve known better. Especially Microsoft.

Not all people control their PCs with mouse and keyboard though.

HTPC users for example. Win 8/8.1/Metro is an ideal launch platform. I love it.

The world doesn't revolve around YOU yano.

 

[Jorona]

Not all people control their PCs with mouse and keyboard though.

HTPC users for example. Win 8/8.1/Metro is an ideal launch platform. I love it.

The world doesn't revolve around YOU yano.

HTPC users aren't Microsofts primary market. Their primary market is business. When nearly that entire market says no to your new OS, you did something wrong.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Not all people control their PCs with mouse and keyboard though.

HTPC users for example. Win 8/8.1/Metro is an ideal launch platform. I love it.

I don't disagree.

Windows 8 is a pretty decent interface for HTPC. (That's what my HTPC runs)

That being said, what is the ratio of HTPC's to desktops/laptops again?

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

Not all people control their PCs with mouse and keyboard though.

HTPC users for example. Win 8/8.1/Metro is an ideal launch platform. I love it.

The world doesn't revolve around YOU yano.

Home theaters are expensive, complicated, and return little benefit for their investment which is why they have a very small number of existing instances. HTPCs are even more rare and mostly are the domain of tech-y people who install a computer where many other more cost effective, simpler devices would be more than adequate. In fact, given the big selection in inexpensive smart TV devices out there, I'd say that HTPCs are pretty much an obsolete leftover from the last decade. Pretty much no mainstream PC company is targeting that market with retail products so I think it's reasonable to say they're a non-factor in software and hardware development.

 

[mw8t]

Home theaters are expensive, complicated, and return little benefit for their investment which is why they have a very small number of existing instances. HTPCs are even more rare and mostly are the domain of tech-y people who install a computer where many other more cost effective, simpler devices would be more than adequate. In fact, given the big selection in inexpensive smart TV devices out there, I'd say that HTPCs are pretty much an obsolete leftover from the last decade. Pretty much no mainstream PC company is targeting that market with retail products so I think it's reasonable to say they're a non-factor in software and hardware development.

True, however I should have added in my initial post HTPC/Steam Big Picture users

Not many 'cost effective' devices are going to be capable of running GTA V @ 1080P/4K

 

[DPI]

Not all people control their PCs with mouse and keyboard though.

HTPC users for example. Win 8/8.1/Metro is an ideal launch platform. I love it.

The world doesn't revolve around YOU yano.

right, " ideal." That's why Microsoft couldn't even be bothered to enable Metro for their own Microsoft MCE remote.

You still need KBM to drive an HTC with Metro, brains.