• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Windows 10 Buggy Updates? Our Patching Is Simple, Regular, Consistent Says Microsoft

PeaKr said:
Sounds like m$ needs to hire back its quality control rather than paying for articles and hiring forum shills to gaslight people into believing everything is unicorns and rainbows.
Click to expand...

All I am saying is that 2 in 1s are a critical part of the Windows market today. All you have to do is look at Amazon or walk into a Best Buy. 2 in 1s along with gaming PCs are devices that currently drive Windows PCs in the consumer market.
 
heatlesssun said:
If Windows 10 isn't working out then what other operating system is working out better? As you point out people use Windows 10 because it's the only option. It's the only thing that will support my VR gaming rig and my 2 in 1 devices for instance. And everything at work as well as we're moving to 10 there.



I'm not saying things can't be improved, there's plenty that can. I do find it interesting how some constantly refer to "bloat". I'm typing all of this from my Surface Go, a pretty resource constrained device that's got all of this "bloat" and it's running quite well. Mileages always vary of course.
Click to expand...
Yes, we know, it runs awesome for you. Same as 8, same as 7, etc so forth. So will 11 if it comes out. Yes, you are biased to windows and it is the best thing since sliced bread.

Now onto reality. It has massive bloatware/virus's/spyware. I do not want any of it. I want to play games and browse. Does it work? Yes. But I had to modify the crap out of it like others.
Then they go and update and things get messed up. Some of it is due to them resetting what we did to make the OS the way we want it.
In America, we like freedom. This carries over to even software. I just want the OS the way I like it. Is that too much to ask?
 
How do some of you manage to use a computer?

My wife has zero problems with her old Dell running up to date W10. She isn't really a computer expert.

I have about ten W10 rigs that also just work. Yeah, the feature updates can take a hot minute, but I'll take the security upgrades that have come with each Redstone.
 
tetris42 said:
YES.
Click to expand...
so mean.gif
 
thebufenator said:
How do some of you manage to use a computer?

My wife has zero problems with her old Dell running up to date W10. She isn't really a computer expert.

I have about ten W10 rigs that also just work. Yeah, the feature updates can take a hot minute, but I'll take the security upgrades that have come with each Redstone.
Click to expand...
Well, then the whole world should be fine since your wifes dell is good at running 10 with no problems. She loves all the bloat and spyware. I am so happy for her!
 
Jim Kim said:
A 2 core cpu locked at 4 watts pushing Windows 10 and shitty battery life, the only interesting thing about the Surface Go were the drugs they were main-lining in the boardroom when it got the "Go" ahead?
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/08/the-surface-go-reviews-are-in-and-theyre-a-bit-all-over-the-place/
Click to expand...

I've read this particular blog. I'd agree with the battery life, in my own testing 6 hours of continuous use seems to be the limit which is what I was expecting given the 9 hours Microsoft reported from their video loop testing. Take about a 1/3rd off that and that and you typically get a mainstream use number.

What makes the Go interesting is its size, weight and form factor. The tablet by itself weighs in at about 18 ounces, just a over a pound. A full x86 computer than can be held for extended periods of time like a book, there's a market for those kinds of devices with enough performance. And that's the area where I've actually been surprised. I've loaded this puppy up with a lot of stuff, even Visual Studio and while not fast it's far from unusable. For mainstream tasks this thing, at least the 8 GB/ 128 GB will perform fine even when running a good number of tasks.

The whole package including the type cover and pen weighs 1.75 lbs. Granted the pricing is what many will balk at. But something this functional and this good at this size and weight, that's why I think this thing is interesting.
 
Hagrid said:
Yes, we know, it runs awesome for you.
Click to expand...

Running awesome isn't even the point. That Windows actually RUNS the stuff I want and need is why I use it. You said yourself there are no alternatives. As a PC VR user you obviously understand this as well I as I do.

Hagrid said:
Now onto reality. It has massive bloatware/virus's/spyware. I do not want any of it. I want to play games and browse. Does it work? Yes. But I had to modify the crap out of it like others.
​
Click to expand...


I've treated Windows 10 like every other version of Windows I've used. Just keep it up to date. I get it spyware, bloatware, whatever. Again, there aren't any alternatives for people like me. If there's an alternative that does all that I need without spending countless hours reinventing the wheel without the spyware, bloatware, etc. I'm there like everyone else. It's really very basic stuff. If you don't like Windows and don't need it then there are alternatives without the spyware and bloatware and I encourage people to use them. ​

Hagrid said:
Then they go and update and things get messed up. Some of it is due to them resetting what we did to make the OS the way we want it.
In America, we like freedom. This carries over to even software. I just want the OS the way I like it. Is that too much to ask?
Click to expand...

Not arguing this. I like freedom as well. Windows offers tremendous freedom in hardware and software choices and that's my view of it.
 
heatlesssun said:
Running awesome isn't even the point. That Windows actually RUNS the stuff I want and need is why I use it. You said yourself there are no alternatives. As a PC VR user you obviously understand this as well I as I do.



I've treated Windows 10 like every other version of Windows I've used. Just keep it up to date. I get it spyware, bloatware, whatever. Again, there aren't any alternatives for people like me. If there's an alternative that does all that I need without spending countless hours reinventing the wheel without the spyware, bloatware, etc. I'm there like everyone else. It's really very basic stuff. If you don't like Windows and don't need it then there are alternatives without the spyware and bloatware and I encourage people to use them. ​



Not arguing this. I like freedom as well. Windows offers tremendous freedom in hardware and software choices and that's my view of it.
Click to expand...
You know exactly what freedom I am talking about, at least I hope so.
 
Hagrid said:
You know exactly what freedom I am talking about, at least I hope so.
Click to expand...

We're three years into Windows 10 and I think that people in a place like this have pretty heard all that there is about the subject on both sides. With something as complex as Windows 10 that has to meet the desires of so many people in a world that's significantly different from the good local desktop days, I think I get both sides of the argument and I do indeed agree with many of this points of those I disagree with overall.

More control over the OS such as enterprises have, I've gotten that for a long time. Enterprises have lots more tools available to control things and I wouldn't be adverse to those things being more generally available. But then I get the other side of it. Sure 2 in 1s don't mean anything to you, I use them as much or more than conventional machines. I feel as though people that are constantly complaining about Windows 10 simply want a desktop OS from the 1980s forever and always.
 
heatlesssun said:
We're three years into Windows 10 and I think that people in a place like this have pretty heard all that there is about the subject on both sides. With something as complex as Windows 10 that has to meet the desires of so many people in a world that's significantly different from the good local desktop days, I think I get both sides of the argument and I do indeed agree with many of this points of those I disagree with overall.

More control over the OS such as enterprises have, I've gotten that for a long time. Enterprises have lots more tools available to control things and I wouldn't be adverse to those things being more generally available. But then I get the other side of it. Sure 2 in 1s don't mean anything to you, I use them as much or more than conventional machines. I feel as though people that are constantly complaining about Windows 10 simply want a desktop OS from the 1980s forever and always.
Click to expand...
An OS from the 80's would be better since it wont have all the crap on it. ;)

But yes, people want more control. MS steals data from us to see what we want, but they either don't care or are mining other data.
Crappy updates is just part of the puzzle.
 
I am 99% certain I just heard the same exact three adjectives used in a Ducolax commercial just now.

Sounds about right
 
Hagrid said:
An OS from the 80's would be better since it wont have all the crap on it. ;)
Click to expand...

And this is why it's hard to make everyone happy. Much of what you call crap is stuff I use everyday. And on top of all of that crap I run tons of desktop apps across all kinds of devices and as much as Windows 10 sucks in the opinion of some, no other desktop OS supports all of this.

Some folks need to really get that part of the equation because it's critical. Windows 10 can't be complete crap and simultaneously support all that it does when there's nothing else that can. I can install whatever OS I want to on my personal devices, even the Surfaces will run Linux distros. While those options might give more control over the OS the lack of support of the functionality of the hardware makes that a moot point.

Hagrid said:
But yes, people want more control. MS steals data from us to see what we want, but they either don't care or are mining other data.
Crappy updates is just part of the puzzle.
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt the average consumer wants to spend a lot of time reading release notes and determining the impact of every single system update. People on a place like this I get want control. Most people want simplicity.
 
heatlesssun said:
And this is why it's hard to make everyone happy. Much of what you call crap is stuff I use everyday. And on top of all of that crap I run tons of desktop apps across all kinds of devices and as much as Windows 10 sucks in the opinion of some, no other desktop OS supports all of this.

Some folks need to really get that part of the equation because it's critical. Windows 10 can't be complete crap and simultaneously support all that it does when there's nothing else that can. I can install whatever OS I want to on my personal devices, even the Surfaces will run Linux distros. While those options might give more control over the OS the lack of support of the functionality of the hardware makes that a moot point.



I seriously doubt the average consumer wants to spend a lot of time reading release notes and determining the impact of every single system update. People on a place like this I get want control. Most people want simplicity.
Click to expand...
Having options will make it harder? What? Basically you want to be told by MS what to do, because that is what you do no matter what. I bet if it borked your OS, you would not even mention it and just reload or try and fix it.
We always go back and forth on this every time. Yes, we know, MS does nothing wrong and their products are above God.
 
Hagrid said:
Having options will make it harder? What? Basically you want to be told by MS what to do, because that is what you do no matter what. I bet if it borked your OS, you would not even mention it and just reload or try and fix it.
We always go back and forth on this every time. Yes, we know, MS does nothing wrong and their products are above God.
Click to expand...

Didn't I just say that I think that the options that enterprises have for control over Windows should be available to anyone who wants them? As much money as I spend on Windows PCs, I'm very retentive with the ones I use daily. Since I work from home mostly and remote into my laptop at work, I can't afford for things to go down like that.

I generally do an OS backup before a major Windows update on my sig rig. Fortunately I've never needed in the last two years knock on wood. I did blow up my Surface Book 2 15" back in April trying to move to 1803 by switching over to the fast ring thinking it was the RTM release. It was not and that was a bad idea and no backup. Funny thing is that the same insider build worked perfectly on my sig rig so I figure how could it blow up a Surface device?

But unlike most of the horror stories over Windows 10 updates, I forced that one intentionally and got burned so I don't see how I blame Microsoft for that one. I've never said the process was perfect.
 
heatlesssun said:
I seriously doubt the average consumer wants to spend a lot of time reading release notes and determining the impact of every single system update. People on a place like this I get want control. Most people want simplicity.
Click to expand...
More than that: most people will take the control that people here (including me) might want and use it to irretrievably screw up their system. This should not be possible (at the least, it should be damn difficult) in an OS for home computers.
 
Hagrid said:
I have run Linux. I loved it. If it ran my Rift I would dump that POS OS fast.
Games are the only reason which is pretty sad.
Click to expand...
Are you complaining about lack of sufficient control over an OS you only run so you can play games?
If so, please forgive me if I leave my violin in it's case.
 
pcgeekesq said:
Are you complaining about lack of sufficient control over an OS you only run so you can play games?
If so, please forgive me if I leave my violin in it's case.
Click to expand...

It can be a lot more complicated than that. I have many thousands of dollars spent on hardware and software that simply doesn't work under Linux. And with all of the talk about control, there's nothing from a PC perspective that I want or need, be it work or play that doesn't work without issue under Windows 10.

What's the point of control over something that doesn't do the job?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DocNo
like this
pcgeekesq said:
Are you complaining about lack of sufficient control over an OS you only run so you can play games?
If so, please forgive me if I leave my violin in it's case.
Click to expand...
Control, broken updates, spyware, etc. You will need a huge violin. :)
 
heatlesssun said:
Indeed. I've known about Linux for 20 years. Whatever control I could gain has always been more than offset by the lack of support for the things I do.
Click to expand...
[nods head] "Life's full of tough choices, innit?" -- Ursula, The Little Mermaid.
 
Hagrid said:
Well, then the whole world should be fine since your wifes dell is good at running 10 with no problems. She loves all the bloat and spyware. I am so happy for her!
Click to expand...

Bloat? It's an old ass i3 laptop. Upgrading to W10 helped since it's faster than W7.

Spyware? I hope you don't use any social media, web browsers, or free email. What phones do you use?

Oh but, "muh privacy", all while your ISP tracks everything you do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DocNo
like this
thebufenator said:
Bloat? It's an old ass i3 laptop. Upgrading to W10 helped since it's faster than W7.

Spyware? I hope you don't use any social media, web browsers, or free email. What phones do you use?

Oh but, "muh privacy", all while your ISP tracks everything you do.
Click to expand...
Yes, its all about privacy. You got me....
 
heatlesssun said:
Indeed. I've known about Linux for 20 years. Whatever control I could gain has always been more than offset by the lack of support for the things I do.
Click to expand...
This is really the bottom line for most people, with the lack of O365/Office 20XX and AAA gaming to be a close second and third.
It is also why Linux will almost certainly never take off on the desktop.

Most people also want more functionality and compatibility with their OS than control as well.
 
heatlesssun said:
It can be a lot more complicated than that. I have many thousands of dollars spent on hardware and software that simply doesn't work under Linux. And with all of the talk about control, there's nothing from a PC perspective that I want or need, be it work or play that doesn't work without issue under Windows 10.

What's the point of control over something that doesn't do the job?
Click to expand...
Understood. I've run Linux, but not in a long time. For me, Win10 works fine, but I'm not doing much with it, just Office, Firefox, Scrivener and sometimes gaming. I keep my LAN locked down pretty hard, haven't had any security issues. Hardware is pretty mainstream (if running both a 1080 and a 1060 in one system is still mainstream) and I usually wait a couple of weeks to apply updates.

Honestly, I have more problems with the power coming into the house than with Windows 10. Reliability of my systems went way up after I put all the important ones on a CyberPower 1325VA sine-wave UPS.
 
Red Falcon said:
This is really the bottom line for most people, with the lack of O365/Office 20XX and AAA gaming to be a close second and third.
It is also why Linux will almost certainly never take off on the desktop.

Most people also want more functionality and compatibility with their OS than control as well.
Click to expand...

I just don't what's so hard about this. There's lots of things to like about Linux and no one really argues that. But tell a Linux fan "This doesn't work ..." and then all of sudden you're a paid shill. Because something didn't work under Linux and there wasn't readily available solution.
 
heatlesssun said:
I just don't what's so hard about this. There's lots of things to like about Linux and no one really argues that. But tell a Linux fan "This doesn't work ..." and then all of sudden you're a paid shill. Because something didn't work under Linux and there wasn't readily available solution.
Click to expand...
Unless you can get office to run on linux? Not sure how or if it runs. MS might even make it so it wont run on it?
 
Hagrid said:
Unless you can get office to run on linux? Not sure how or if it runs. MS might even make it so it wont run on it?
Click to expand...
There is OpenOffice. Supposed to be file compatible. But I use Office in my work, the cost of owning it is worth it to not have to worry about compatibility issues or learning a new way to do stuff.

That said, I do resent the way Microsoft essentially forced Office365 subscribers to stop using Office2013 and use Office2016 instead.
All the new crap in Office2016 just gets in my way.
But oh well. We can't always get what we want-- unless we're stupid rich.
 
Hagrid said:
What changed? Hmmmm.
Click to expand...

What changed is computing. The desktop paradigm that Windows 7 followed is no longer the dominant computing platform. A lot of the angst over Windows 10 isn't so much about Windows 10 but normal evolutionary forces. "A desktop only OS that you can control!" sounds good in an internet forum like this. Try using that to sell an OS the general public today and good luck.
 
Hagrid said:
Unless you can get office to run on linux? Not sure how or if it runs. MS might even make it so it wont run on it?
Click to expand...

LOL! Coming from a Rift guy this is funny. Last summer I spent about a good 40 hours messing around with Steam VR under Linux. The situation is probably better today but wow. I admit, that venture really turned me off from Linux. The state that was in compared to Windows was a fucking joke.
 
Loved XP and stil love 8.1.
Just built a new C236 1U and so far Windows 10 works as well as 8.1.
I’m hearing a few people using certain apps where their dll. files are disabled.
We’ll see how things go.
I have 2 x 1U Workstations in a 2U ATA Case I drag around.
If Windows 10 Rig chokes the 8.1 1U is right underneath.

They can data mine me all they want.
If somebody makes a dime off of my boring life hats off to them..
 
heatlesssun said:
All I am saying is that 2 in 1s are a critical part of the Windows market today. All you have to do is look at Amazon or walk into a Best Buy. 2 in 1s along with gaming PCs are devices that currently drive Windows PCs in the consumer market.
Click to expand...

And its only taken us six years to get there from Win8's release with its tablet centric UI aka Metro. Well, to be fair 2 in 1's have been popular for a couple of years now. How hard is it for MS to make an adaptable system? Win10 is better than 8 on this front but then they go cheapo with QA and updates that many people don't want or need. For pete's sake heatlessun, you and I and many others on this forum have been debating this for years. Yes, yes, tablets/touchscreens are indeed now the present and the future. Microsoft has just levied their monopoly of desktop/business customers to push this hybrid OS full of ads, data tracking and candy effing crush updates. God forbid people make righteous complaints about an idiotic update system that isn't needed.
 
viper1152012 said:
I havent had any issues personally, but many cusromers come in and somehow have screwed the whole update system up.

Own dell, to and custom rigs.
3rd gen to 7th..

Anyone else?
Click to expand...

Heh, yeah. The last update borked one of my SageTV clients. My local network access on that machine became iffy and I found out the system had honked up my hardware listing. My 1 mouse turned into 3, duplicate harddrives, extra USB controllers, etc. Luckily it was only a SageTV client so a fresh OS install fixed it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top