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Win 8 Ditching Start Menu for a Start Screen

jadams said:
If you're searching for a control panel function say automatic updates you press the windows key, type update, you have to click the "settings" filter on the right.
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Sure, if you have one of those weirdo newfangled keyboards that has a Windows key :p
 
jadams said:
This is what I'm hoping. Theres already a registry hack in the dev preview that gets rid of the metro UI. The underlying start menu still exists and I hope will always stay there.
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Yeah, but if you are going to do this, why not just stick with Windows 7? :p
 
jadams said:
The process by which you hit the Windows Key and start typing a few characters to find out program still exists even in the Dev Preview.
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What if you forget the name of the program, like I do sometimes? :confused:
 
I strongly feel that by the time this thing comes out, their will be an 'enterprise' version that has a traditional start menu. They know better than to do away with it.

They are being smart, though. They want a normal person to be able to use a phone, tablet, & a pc and let it all be a natural motion. It is a very ambitious goal.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037836736 said:
Yeah, but if you are going to do this, why not just stick with Windows 7? :p
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Exactly a point i've raised. Someone around here posted a link before of the few hundred improvements that Win8 will bring to the table.

Not including the MetroUI for tablets (not desktops), i see no reason thus far to make the leap from 7 to 8.

But if they try to cram this start screen down our throats in Server 2012 or whatever its called I'll probably implment the old start menu hack.
 
Ashbringer said:
Since Windows 95 the Start button was always rarely used. Almost any application worth a damn creates a shortcut on the desktop. The point of the Start menu is to get you everywhere in your PC, that you need to go. Anything and everything will exist there. We have it for applications that we rarely but desperately need. Everything else is a shortcut on the desktop.

With that mentality they should remove device manager, cause after all it's rarely used.
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This would a good analogy if the Device Manager and Start Menu didn't serve entirely different purposes.
 
I barely use the start menu anyways. I put all my main applications on the desktop, the secondary ones pinned to the taskbar and launch all my games with Steam. Oh well.
 
im not a supernerd but im computer literate and i think this makes perfect sense. i hardly keep anything on my desktop, and i hardly ever use the start menu for more than like 10 programs. move those 10 programs to my unused desktop, and boom, theres 99% of what i use the start menu for. the start menu is annoying and i customize my quick launcher so i can do what i need from there.

fine, i'll get off your lawns now. :D
 
That Start Interface is great for a touch enabled machine, but for a mouse based one, I prefer the classic start menu.
 
I am starting to think Win 8 is going to be a huge failure on the desktop. Reason is for some reason MS seems convinced that people use their PCs like tablets, meaning only one app at a time. No, not so much. Everyone I know does the "multiple apps, multiple windows" thing. Not just power users. My mom does, all our accountants and secretaries do, etc. A major point of a GUI'd OS was to allow for multiple apps to run and interact easily.

I mean what the hell do they think people buy multiple monitors for? They know people do, and in great numbers. Multiple monitors are a big thing in offices these days (and business is a very important Windows market).

People are NOT going to like an attempt to force them to a "one app at a time" thing and aren't likley to want to upgrade. It won't even be because it is different, but because it is measurably less efficient to work that way.
 
The start screen is a fantastic menu system for a mouse and keyboard when you have a crapton of applications installed.

However, it can be a pain for a HTPC with an air-remote or touchscreen tablets.

Give people the OPTION for either view, its just a GUI after all, and I think this will be a huge success.
 
It looks like there is a huge controversy over some of the Netflix vs. Qwickster, I mean, Desktop vs. Metro aspects, not just the Start menu, which means we are still far away from the first real Beta build, before a unified working system is found.

As for the Start screen, my main issue is that it is full screen and hides whatever you were doing. Probably feels even worse on a multiple monitors system.

Because of the size of the tiles, the number of apps accessible is much less than what you can fit on the Windows 7 Taskbar for Desktop usage, and they all require one extra click or keyboard key compared to the shortcuts that require only one click on your Taskbar or Quick Launch toolbar.

As for the few less used programs that are accessed via the Start menu, it's up to you to organize them properly. Here's my current Windows 7 Start menu:

Start%252520menu.png


Most apps have shortcuts copied to the "Applications" group, a few more are in "Games", "Multimedia" or "Web browsers", and all the groups created when installing an app are moved to "Complements". (I pinned IE first for the Microsoft blog, shhhhh.)
 
Ashbringer said:
Since Windows 95 the Start button was always rarely used. Almost any application worth a damn creates a shortcut on the desktop. The point of the Start menu is to get you everywhere in your PC, that you need to go. Anything and everything will exist there. We have it for applications that we rarely but desperately need. Everything else is a shortcut on the desktop.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons android was easier to organize was because of the way the icons were managed. All the applications were inside the startmenu/appdrawer, and then the ones you often use gets a duplicate icon on the desktop/homescreen, but it's still always only a couple of clicks/taps away.

When the application is launched, another icon gets added to the taskbar which makes multitasking more efficient since all your running apps are right there one click away. It such that all you do move a context sensitive item is to drag it to the taskbar, and it will automatically switch to the target application. Android doesn't have this.

There's also the Quick launcher which is a godsend in Win8, perfectly integrated into the taskbar. You can launch any application from the startmenu, and pin them instantly. This lets you easily create groups that you only need for very short terms. You don't need it anymore? Unpin and clear up the taskbar. Applications that i need multiple instances of (win explorer, IE, notepad, various IDEs) also get a permanent place there, so i have something to middleclick.

And last are the toolbars. Also integrated into the taskbar. Not as elegant as the Quick Launcher, but if you put your workspace folder in there, you've got instant access to your active project files. Everything of a particular folder is shown there even the mundane splash screen JPG you need to get back to every now and then without needing to hunt for it through explorer. VERY VERY USEFUL!

The different ways of allowing you to group, organize and access your work files is what differentiates a desktop OS from a tablet OS. Take away the ability to organize on different levels and i'll drop that OS from my work machines.

Quick Launch = All the shortcuts you'll need for the next hour
Toolbar = Direct access to your project files
Task Bar = Instant access to your background applications
Desktop = Sorted access to your often used applications
Start Menu = All your applications, configurations, hardware, etc.

Combining all these into one is not a good idea productivity wise. Maybe if i was using the desktop exclusively, but i'm using all those to manage my work. I'm heavy into multitasking, always dragging things from one application to another (show me a web developer who doesn't), and each particular component needs a different set of application tools. I hope those functions i mentioned stay intact in 'classic' mode.
 
Sycraft said:
I am starting to think Win 8 is going to be a huge failure on the desktop. Reason is for some reason MS seems convinced that people use their PCs like tablets, meaning only one app at a time. No, not so much.
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If you've kept up with what Microsoft has been talking about you'd know this isn't true. I've been using Windows 8 on a pure pen and multi-touch slate Asus EP121 and a single screen 24" 1920x1200 QX9650 desktop and honestly the desktop experience simply isn't that different from Windows 7, other that Windows 8 does seem to run a bit smoother on the desktop than Windows 7.

The new Start Screen works perfectly fine for what most people use the Start Menu for today, that is launch apps and then search. Most of the stuff that's was in the right section of the Start Menu as been add to the ribbon in the new Windows Explorer.

That say doctors are the worst patients, I think technical computer folks are the worst UI designers. I can't think of any major UI change that Microsoft has made where techincial users were strongly against the change. The last example, the Ribbon that was interoduced in Office 2007. I lost count of how many people said that the Ribbon was going to push people to OpenOffice or something else in droves, and yet Office 2010 with the same UI, although with some major changes to the underpinnings, that actually added the ribbon to ALL of the Office products, is the fastest selling version of Office ever.

The Start Screen is great on a tablet, and it works well on a desktop. There needs to be some way to do folders I think, the mouse issues need to fixed as Sinofsky indicated and there needs to be a better task switching mechanism that works with Metro and the desktop better.

This is just the Developer Preview and just enough to get into peoples hands so that they can begin learning Windows 8 and in particular Metro application development, this is the first test version of Windows that came bundled with a development tool that I can recall. I'm sure the major usability issues will be worked out but that many will hate the new Start Screen. But most users will adapt quickly and as apps are developed to use the Start Screen I think people will warm up to it. The problem with the Start Screen in the dev preview is that it's not being used for much.
 
Q: In Win8 metro, how do you switch between tasks and have multiple windows displayed?
 
Stone Cold said:
Q: In Win8 metro, how do you switch between tasks and have multiple windows displayed?
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They don't use windows. They're tiled.

I have a Video player running in the corner of my screen always on top of what i'm currently doing, or have notepad on top of the maximized IE9 noting down the important parts. The demos show i won't be able to do those in Metro.
 
Since going to Windows 7 the only thing I use in the start menu is the search box. Key programs are pinned.
 
Sly said:
Imagine your pinned, desktop, and start icons getting mixed together.
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And each of your favorite web site and page, and a shortcut for each CD album too, according to the MS people in their blog... ^-^
 
Fuck that big ass tablet crap I already own a android tablet I want a fucking desktop OS, that is not a fucking Desktop OS I have to run maya 3d max and crap on a desktop PC all that junk just gets in my fucking way.

That is Horrible it's even worse than the crap apple shoves out it's ass..

I am keeping windows 7.
 
Cube said:
Fuck that big ass tablet crap I already own a android tablet I want a fucking desktop OS, that is not a fucking Desktop OS I have to run maya 3d max and crap on a desktop PC all that junk just gets in my fucking way.

That is Horrible it's even worse than the crap apple shoves out it's ass..

I am keeping windows 7.
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Yep just like all the people on XP. :p
 
I don't really care. I use the start button for very little. I use a task bar for everything. To me, there is nothing worse that having to use someones computer that has 987987934 icons on the desktop...it just looks so ghetto.
 
I have the developer preview installed in a VM on my laptop.

Within five minutes, I regedited my way back to the start menu. At this point, REGEDIT was the only way to do this, there is no on/off toggle.

The Metro interface is great for a mobile phone. It is also good for kiosk PCs, or possibly Internet cafes.

IMO, anyone who has even the slightest bit of tech-savvy will hate it. It seems to be the intention is to bring "tablet simplicity" and an app store to Windows and tie people to it. This will be a big draw to computer illiterates, but at the same time, will keep illiterate users rather than pushing them to learn a little.

I think the Pro/Business version of Windows and probably Ultimate will make it possible to toggle this. The only thing I'd find a positive is if it let netadmins present a start screen to users customized with only the apps they use via GPO. Still, my first inclination is that I'd rather educate users than encourage people not to learn.
 
Ashbringer said:
Be honest with me guys. Do you see me with Ubuntu or Mint? You think slackware will go with my eyes?
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The latest Ubuntu also employs tiles, sort of. Tiles of your frequently used programs in several categories, but you can hit "view more programs" to see the list of programs.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037836736 said:
Yeah, but if you are going to do this, why not just stick with Windows 7? :p
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USB 3.0 support among other enhancements I would imagine.

I wish for native Blu-ray support but I knew it'd be too much to hope for.
 
Ducman69 said:
The start screen is a fantastic menu system for a mouse and keyboard when you have a crapton of applications installed.

However, it can be a pain for a HTPC with an air-remote or touchscreen tablets.

Give people the OPTION for either view, its just a GUI after all, and I think this will be a huge success.
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Not sure why you think that. Media Center remotes have arrow buttons on them. I'm sure they can be assigned to move around and select tiles.
 
Don't really care, if it enhances the experience/makes it easier, I don't care if they remove it. I do like it how ever and do not think that MS will remove it completely.
 
I don't think defaulting it and assuming tablets are automatically a desktop or a laptop is totally correct. I'm sure they want to simplify the menu it would be okay, but a PC isn't a tablet or iPhone. I think giving users the option would be nice, but for simplicities sake it won't happen. I don't exactly like the idea but they're following where the trend is going and that's towards phones and tablet PC's, for the time being. They aren't innovating but they are following Apple's lead.
 
Trepidati0n said:
Yep just like all the people on XP. :p
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You know it's funny you say that. A long time ago I was one of those people. Once I woke up and switched to Vista I found myself liking it all except the interface, specifically the Start Menu. For a while I had tinkered, configured and adjusted the menu for so long and went back to the way Windows 98/XP had it and it was satisfactory.

Now I've long since upgraded to Windows 7 and for the most part it's been fantastic. The one pain in the ass has always been the start menu but I don't think it's the start menu's fault, it's the way it's been implemented. I find myself still using it but I can't stand using it past the quick shortcuts off the first click. Maybe I'm geting old and want the simplicity of the tablet PC but it's more of bad design as I see it and just plain cumbersome sometimes.
 
I think its a good idea. As long as Windows 8 has the same support as win7 I'm ok with the changes. I liked fooling around with the preview iso. Was alot of fun. Cant wait!
 
I keep seeing the new Windows Millennium Edition. How can they go from Windows 7 (which is probably the most stable and elegant OS I've ever used for daily use, to this...abomination?
 
This is just like Office 2007...

A major change where none was needed that does nothing but infuriate end users.

The day I am forced to upgrade to 2007 or 2010 at work is the day I hand in my resignation.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037836736 said:
Yeah, but if you are going to do this, why not just stick with Windows 7? :p
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because of other improvements in the OS, like claims of being upto %30 faster on netbooks... to think windows 8 is merely a GUI improvements is as bad as the XP freaks who said Vista was only a GUI upgrade.
 
Azhar said:
The latest Ubuntu also employs tiles, sort of. Tiles of your frequently used programs in several categories, but you can hit "view more programs" to see the list of programs.
Click to expand...

Nobody likes Unity, but at least you can go back to the "classic" Gnome. Though I honestly don't think Unity as anywhere near as bad as what Windows 8 is doing. I'll probably end up using Mint.
 
Ducman69 said:
The start screen is a fantastic menu system for a mouse and keyboard when you have a crapton of applications installed.

However, it can be a pain for a HTPC with an air-remote or touchscreen tablets.

Give people the OPTION for either view, its just a GUI after all, and I think this will be a huge success.
Click to expand...

Would it hurt Microsoft to ask users to select Desktop view or tablet view when Windows is started for the first time? One size does not fit all.
 
I've been using the classic start menu API mod for Windows 7 for some time now. Works wonders. Hopefully there will be an updated version of the mod for Windows 8, as i'll be using that as well.

First the vista start menu, now this... FFS
 
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