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Will MLAA ever get "fixed"?

U

UtopiA

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
3,509
MLAA is pretty awesome, but it's smoothing everything in games, which includes UI stuff (text).
I would think the driver could interpret what's actual graphics, since normal AA doesn't smooth text.
 
I think by the way it's designed that's not possible.

If there was some way that the game would be rendered without the UI, then the MLAA would be applied, and then the UI was rendered, then that would be possible. But I'm not sure if that's even remotely conceivable.
 
Heh, they need to actually get it working properly before fantasizing ways to improve it, as currently its kinda fail broken atm with dx10/11 games with vsync enabled.
 
UtopiA said:
MLAA is pretty awesome, but it's smoothing everything in games, which includes UI stuff (text).
I would think the driver could interpret what's actual graphics, since normal AA doesn't smooth text.
Click to expand...
This is not possible. MLAA isn't actually broken. By design, MLAA uses shader power to smooth the entire scene, which is why text is smoothed. It's not intended as a replacement to normal AA, it's intended to be used for games where the performance penalty for running SSAA is too great or the game's engine does not support AA natively. Since the MLAA algorithm applies the "AA" effect to the entire scene after it has been rendered, including the UI, I don't think they can fix this, though they can probably improve upon the effect so that it doesn't hinder text as much.

Here's the technical description:

The first thing you need to know is that this is a post-processing effect that is applied to the output image after all rendering stages. What this means is that the video card driver applies a custom post-processing filter to each frame after it goes through the GPU pipeline, and before it is displayed on your monitor. This is performed via DirectCompute accelerated by the video card shaders. This is not like in-game antialiasing where 2X MSAA, 4X MSAA or 8X MSAA are performed during the rendering of the scene through the pipeline. By doing it this way, Morphological AA is able to be applied to the entire image, full-screen, so that any aliasing on the image can be reduced, no matter where the textures or polygons are. This is somewhat like applying a filter in Adobe Photoshop.
Click to expand...
 
UtopiA said:
MLAA is pretty awesome, but it's smoothing everything in games, which includes UI stuff (text).
I would think the driver could interpret what's actual graphics, since normal AA doesn't smooth text.
Click to expand...

MLAA is a post-processing filter which is applied after the final output has been generated, which is why it affects everything. UI elements are just textured onto screen-aligned quads - the text isn't affected by MSAA as it isn't geometry, simple as that.
 
For the issue to be resolved there would have to be some communication between the game and the driver/card. As is however like mentioned it cannot be simply resolved from the video cards side.

Battlefield 3 for instance is said to have MLAA built in the game engine, I think they will likely have provisions in place to ignore certain aspects of the screen.

So it isn't really a direct issue of MLAA itself, but the current method of doing so.
 
MLAA has disapeared for me with the new drivers. I used it when I had it. I have a 6870, but there are no MLAA options in the 10.12s.
 
DOX said:
Heh, they need to actually get it working properly before fantasizing ways to improve it, as currently its kinda fail broken atm with dx10/11 games with vsync enabled.
Click to expand...

Heh, Crysis: Warhead, BC2, Metro, Dirt2 all work fine with my 6970.
 
Not tried it yet, but yeah if it's post-processing, then it will always affect text, no fix for that. I wouldn't anticipate text being illegible though, should still look fine, just different.
 
It's really nice to use on BC2. The only games it looks bad on is ones with heavy UI use, and MMO's.
 
Lorien said:
Heh, Crysis: Warhead, BC2, Metro, Dirt2 all work fine with my 6970.
Click to expand...

Sounds like youre either..

a) not running vsync
b) not hitting ur vsync cap due to high game settings and/or using a 120hz refresh rate etc
 
As an aside to this, I think older ATI cards/drivers implemented similar methods of AA back in the day. I remember my x600/x1950 blurring the text just like MLAA when I enabled AA through CCC.
 
I got a 6970 and I have no option on my drivers for MLAA. I'm not sure why its not there. :(
 
the only way I could see it being fixed, that would be low over head, would be the game devs. providing a "mask" to certain areas not to have MLAA applied to it, just like you would apply a mask in Photoshop :p.

not sure if having the scene rendered then the UI Applied would cause any extra input lag, or additional post processing, but it sounds like it would.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
the only way I could see it being fixed, that would be low over head, would be the game devs. providing a "mask" to certain areas not to have MLAA applied to it, just like you would apply a mask in Photoshop :p.

not sure if having the scene rendered then the UI Applied would cause any extra input lag, or additional post processing, but it sounds like it would.
Click to expand...

I cant find those drivers but I installed 10.12's with the hotfix and still no option. I find it actually lowered my performance installing the hotfix..
 
In-engine MLAA, render text separately, overlay upon MLAA treated graphics, pray it doesn't cause too much input lag.
 
I know nothing about current cards due to not having the funds to get one so I never did my research. Do all the Cards use MLAA including the 5770?

Also wondering does it work properly if you dont run Vsync or do you need to run Vsync for MLAA to work. Sorry I dont have a MLAA card at the moment so I dont know
 
4LC4PON3 said:
Ok im wondering. I know nothing about current cards really. Do all the Cards use MLAA including the 5770?

Also wondering does it work properly if you dont run Vsync or do you need to run Vsync for MLAA to work. Sorry I dont have a MLAA card at the moment so I dont know
Click to expand...
I think MLAA is only supported on 68xx, 58xx, and 69xx.
A quick Google says it also works on the 5770, so I assume it works on the 5750 as well.

Can't say about the 48xx though...
 
I get my new 5770 tomorrow so I am doing all the Research I can. I plan to Crossfire so thats another thing I gotta research. I also jsut found that MLAA is supported.
 
4LC4PON3 said:
I get my new 5770 tomorrow so I am doing all the Research I can. I plan to Crossfire so thats another thing I gotta research
Click to expand...
MLAA works, but you might have to use the reg hack to show the checkbox in CCC.
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=332973

Maybe not.
You're in the same boat as everyone else... Even some 6950 owners don't see MLAA in CCC. I didn't with my card until I reg hacked.
 
What I do miss is disable Catalyst A.I.
Why they removed that option is beyond me. If they don't put it back before the HD6990 comes out there are going to be many complaint threads popping up.
 
samuelmorris said:
What I do miss is disable Catalyst A.I.
Why they removed that option is beyond me. If they don't put it back before the HD6990 comes out there are going to be many complaint threads popping up.
Click to expand...

With my 6970 I can turn it off and on just like my 4870 x2. Only option i dont have is "MLAA". I also installed the hotfix which didnt fix anything and dropped my performance to unplayable at times.
 
samuelmorris said:
What I do miss is disable Catalyst A.I.
Why they removed that option is beyond me. If they don't put it back before the HD6990 comes out there are going to be many complaint threads popping up.
Click to expand...

That was suppose to work with certain optimization, also running CF configuration.
 
Crippy: Whereabouts? All I see is this:

catai1.jpg

And the 'Disable ATI CrossfireX power settings' isn't it, it requires a reboot.
 
sidequestion btw:

With the extra ram, shaders, etc on the 6950, how much better MLAA performance does it have over the 6870?
 
samuelmorris said:
Crippy: Whereabouts? All I see is this:

And the 'Disable ATI CrossfireX power settings' isn't it, it requires a reboot.
Click to expand...

When you set "Texture Filtering Quality" to "High Quality" it supposedly disables Catalyst AI.
 
if you have a sapphire 6970, try the 10.12 from their site.
they are the 8.801.
 
Crippy: Yeah that's how it always used to look. I'm running 10.12a because frankly 10.12 is one of the worst driver releases for a long time, by far the most complaints, and it was totally unusable on my 4870X2s.
 
This, and the fact that it just makes the game run like crap on my 5850, are the reasons I don't use it.
 
Since the MLAA is a post processing technique, there's no way to fix it unless if they could differentiate what's an GUI and what's a 3D rendered scene. I also have the HD 6970 and I couldn't find MLAA on the CCC. I managed to install the new CCC preview with my HD 6900 series drivers (They come with the old CCC, I just uninstalled CCC, opened the CCC preview drivers, cancelled installation and went to CCC2 and installed each package individually) and still couldn't activate or see MLAA or Texture Quality settings and not even Super Sampling, couldn't even select High Quality option. I went to the registry as the following.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\{49A6BE31-41D0-4C72-9AC3-AE0D0C6CF200}\0000 (The last string varies my setup and modified the following entries.)

ASE_NA=0 to ASE_NA=1 <<That allows you to enable Super Sampling on the Adaptive Anti Aliasing option.

EnableUlps=1 to EnableUlps=0 <This allow you to enable Ultra Low Power State on Crossfire configuration cards which basically turns off the second video card when not in use.

EnableUlps_NA=1 to EnableUlps=0 <The same as previously but allows you to turn them on and off on the CCC.

EQAA_NA=1 to EQAA_NA=0 <<Allows you to enable Enhanced Quality Anti Aliasing which is a similar technique used on nVidia's CSAA.

MLF_NA=1 to MLF_NA=0 <<Enables Morphologic Anti Aliasing on the Anti Aliasing tab

MosquitoNoiseRemoval=0 to 1 <<This is not related to games but video, allows you to reduce the mosquito noise removal on highly compressed video formats.

SurfaceFormatReplacements_NA=1 to SurfaceFormatReplacements=0 <<Allows you to enable or disable Surface Format Replacement. In some games, high HDR Floating Point based calculations are used, but in some scenarios using a lower 16-Bit INT or 10-Bit (10:10:10:2) HDR format will give you more performance without image quality loss.

TQF_NA=1 to TQF_NA=0 <<Allows you to enable and disable High Texture Quality on the Catalyst A.I. The common misconception here is that the High Texture Quality option will disable Catalyst A.I and that's not correct. The High Texture Quality option will simply disable any texture filtering quality optimization but Crossfire and other optimizations that aren't related to image quality will run, which is a plus since disabling Catalyst A.I. altogether will also disable Crossfire.

There's more entries on the registry that has the same entries but usually they will turn themselves on and will work once you reboot the computer or select the Restart CCC runtime. Enjoy!! It will work with any HD 6x00 series and for sure it should work for any HD 58x0 series and may be the HD 57x0 series.
 
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You are the man. I got more options now in CCC. I still cant change the Texture Filtering in Catalyst A.I. & Anti-Aliasing modes. Its a start though

fixccc.png


That's all the options I have. Everything below that is blank still.
 
Make sure that all the registry values under the Video tab are the same and written as below.

ASE_NA=0 will allow you to choose Multi Sample or Super Sampling Adaptive Anti Aliasing

TQF_NA=0 will allow you to choose the Texture Filtering Quality from High to Very High.

If any of those previous values has a "1" , they won't work.
 
evolucion8 said:
Make sure that all the registry values under the Video tab are the same and written as below.

ASE_NA=0 will allow you to choose Multi Sample or Super Sampling Adaptive Anti Aliasing

TQF_NA=0 will allow you to choose the Texture Filtering Quality from High to Very High.

If any of those previous values has a "1" , they won't work.
Click to expand...


I got the Anti-Aliasing modes to show now. Just one thing missing is the Tessellation area. :D
 
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