Will mITX limit VR?

silk186

silk186

[H]ard|Gawd
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I'm planning on making an mITX relatively SFF build with the plan to get into VR in a year or two.
I've seen the release of HTC Vive WiGig Wireless Upgrade which seems to need a PCIe slot. Is it expected that future most futures wireless implementations will require a PCIe slot, and that an mATX or ATX board will be required?
 
My speculation: No, you won't need a PCIe slot.

With laptop users and pre-built system buyers (who may not be inclined to install internal components) each being a significant portion of the PC gaming market, I would be surprised to not see a USB-based product. In fact, I would wager it will be the more prevalent solution, when/if wireless VR gains adequately broad market appeal.

It's still a gamble until a product hits shelves, though.
 
the Vive wireless kit does indeed require a PCIe slot, also I use a PCIe slot for my USB card which I use with my Rift sensors.. if get a Rift you may be lucky enough to have enough USB bandwidth already with this however. my old z77 board wasn't so lucky, I haven't even tried using the on-board ones on my newer z97 board yet...

if you go WMR you won't need any as long as you have bluetooth for the controllers, can always get USB dongle for that tho.
 
It would be nice if the device had a hub that connected by USB-C. I've also heard that future GPUs may come with a USB-C port for VR.
 
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silk186 said:
It would be nice if the device had a hub that connected by USB-C. I've also heard the future GPUs may come with a USB-C port for VR.
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Yeah, but that's just combining the USB and display into a single cable called VirtualLink. Turing GPUs already feature this.

I'm not sure if the latency is more important or if they're just concerned about USB ports not supplying enough bandwidth for the wigig video signal. If latency is important, then your only other option would be Thunderbolt 3 to an external adapter.. But if it's just bandwidth that matters, I'm pretty sure the VirtualLink will have enough (42Gb/s).

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13088/virtuallink-announced-standardized-connector-for-vr-headsets
 
defaultluser said:
Yeah, but that's just combining the USB and display into a single cable called VirtualLink. Turing GPUs already feature this.

I'm not sure if the latency is more important or if they're just concerned about USB ports not supplying enough bandwidth for the wigig video signal. If latency is important, then your only other option would be Thunderbolt 3 to an external adapter.. But if it's just bandwidth that matters, I'm pretty sure the VirtualLink will have enough (42Gb/s).

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13088/virtuallink-announced-standardized-connector-for-vr-headsets
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Converting from USB 3.1 to thunderbolt shouldn't be an issue. Some Z370 mITX boards ship with thunderbolt 3.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12683/asrock-z370-gaming-itx-ac-review
 
silk186 said:
Converting from USB 3.1 to thunderbolt shouldn't be an issue. Some Z370 mITX boards ship with thunderbolt 3.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12683/asrock-z370-gaming-itx-ac-review
Click to expand...


Well yes, but you can't use the port on your video card. it's only guaranteeed to be USB-C Alt mode. So you will have to buy a motherboard with Thunderbolt3 just in case.

Unless the video card manufacturers want to eat the additional cost of adding Thunderbolt chipset. But I seriously doubt this will happen in the first generation.

EDIT: Yup, straight from the press release, no mention of Thunderbolt3 support:

Turing is NVIDIA’s first GPU designed with hardware support for USB Type-C and VirtualLink*, a new open industry standard that powers next-generation headsets through a single, lightweight USB-C cable.
Click to expand...
 
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"lightweight USB-C cable", I would have prefered "lightning USB-C cable".
 
How much would Thunderbolt3 add to the cost of a GPU?
I can't imagine it would make much difference to the price of any of the 2000 series capable of running VR.
 
silk186 said:
How much would Thunderbolt3 add to the cost of a GPU?
I can't imagine it would make much difference to the price of any of the 2000 series capable of running VR.
Click to expand...

The same costs for adding it to a motherboard. It raises the MSRP by 50 bucks, if you want to make money.

Since these are not part of the spec, you'd have a card that's $50 more than everyone else's, or you have to adsorb those costs. Or you could just let people who want the port buy it on their motherboard (which does the same thing).

Nvidia may add Thunderbolt support in the future, but they've declined for the first generation. And as long as they don't make it part of the spec, you're unlikely to see it shipping in any products.

These are the new high margin cards, so the last thing you want to do is lower your margins. But you'll gave a $50 higher price than any other card on the market, an you'll have to validate your own interface and drivers (not part of the Nvidia reference design) for a card that will sell less than anyone else.

Usually custom cards mean "use your own power design, and a smaller PCB, and a custom cooler, and maybe swap once DP for HDMI." Beyond that, it's just a copy of the Reference.

The best way to make sure your ITX system has Thunderbolt 3 is to make sure you buy a motherboard with a port.
 
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silk186 said:
I'm planning on making an mITX relatively SFF build with the plan to get into VR in a year or two.
I've seen the release of HTC Vive WiGig Wireless Upgrade which seems to need a PCIe slot. Is it expected that future most futures wireless implementations will require a PCIe slot, and that an mATX or ATX board will be required?
Click to expand...

I think it is possible to get a M.2->PCIE riser adapter. The guys at SFFLab had a mini-ITX system displayed at Computex I think that had a graphics card and capture card, with the capture card running off such a riser.

That said, hopefully this is why the RTXs include the USB-C port.
 
silk186 said:
I'm planning on making an mITX relatively SFF build with the plan to get into VR in a year or two.
I've seen the release of HTC Vive WiGig Wireless Upgrade which seems to need a PCIe slot. Is it expected that future most futures wireless implementations will require a PCIe slot, and that an mATX or ATX board will be required?
Click to expand...

I believe the asrock am4 mitx boards support pcie bifurcation so you could split the graphics pcie slot into 2 x8 pcie slots. Shouldn't meaningfully impact graphics performance and allow use of the HTC wireless setup.

https://smallformfactor.net/reviews...ound-vrm-temperature-investigation#The-Boards

Edit: They also support x16 x1 mode so no compromise (unless the HTC adapter needs more than x1, then you'd have to go x8 x8).
 
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Make sure you read the mobo manual. Sometimes using some features steal from the PCIe slot.

Personally I’d just go mATX for VR... but to each their own.
 
Go mATX and skip the hassles of adapter cables and mounting gear/diy fabrication to mount those extra pcie devices.
 
silk186 said:
I'm planning on making an mITX relatively SFF build with the plan to get into VR in a year or two.
I've seen the release of HTC Vive WiGig Wireless Upgrade which seems to need a PCIe slot. Is it expected that future most futures wireless implementations will require a PCIe slot, and that an mATX or ATX board will be required?
Click to expand...
If you're not going to get into VR for "a year or two," I think I'd just do whatever I wanted now, and deal with VR when I was ready to buy the equipment. Especially in the ream of VR, which is changing a lot from one iteration to another right now, so much can happen in the space of twelve to eighteen months that planning for this speculatively isn't a very good idea, IMHO.

Build whatever fast gaming PC you want now, and chances are, there will be a VR option that you can use when you're ready, or there will be an upgrade path you'll need to follow first.
 
Master_shake_ said:
M.2 to pcie work?

A lot of it boards come with one these days might be a good solution.
Click to expand...

That's what I am going to wait for. Going to see if anyone makes an attempt before I start messing with my Ncase and get a riser mounted in there.
 
I was looking to go for a very small board, but mATX is a lot more flexible. Last time I went mATX I didn't use any of the extra ports.
 
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