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Will a 5870x2 have microstutter?

99.5% of the people out there mistake hard drive lag for microstutter.
 
hard drive lag doesn't make a game running at 30 fps (according to fraps) to look like much less than 30 fps.
 
kadozer said:
Also to add:
Pcgamehardware review also put up some videos in their first story about Microstutter.....funny they took down these videos down of what they thought was microstutter.
Click to expand...

i've don't recall ever seeing pcg's video's of micro stutter. the only time i've seen a recording of the what i consider micro stuttering was a review done by that maxishine fellow on youtube. he posted a side by side compartison of the 9800gx2 vs the gtx280 in crysis, and there is a discernable difference in the smoothnees both video cards' were able to produce despit the number of frames fraps was reporting.
 
Who cares how does it call? its present! and you cant deny it at least no 1 cant tell me i didnt see it.
 
GotNoRice said:
ATI cards have not had any significant micro-stutter in Crossfire since the 3xxx series.
Click to expand...


Well, my 4850 Crossfire setup and my current 5850 setup does not. However, my 4870X2 had it bad, regardless of which driver I used. I even reinstalled the OS, and it did not change.
 
Atech said:
People still in denail of the facts..scary how far people will go in order to deny facts...
Click to expand...

Lol show me where I said MS doesn't exist. I didnt Dnail anything brah! :D
I said for him to show us what he thinks he is seeing as MS.... scary when people cant read and spell.
 
Microstutter was a big problem back in the 3870X2/9800X2 days, but since then, it seems like it's a non-factor for most people. I know the [H] crew has said that they haven't had any problems with it since the release of the 4870X2 and GTX295. I've personally have played with a couple dual-gpu rigs, and I never noticed any kind of issue. Microstutter is kinda like mouse lag and screen tearing. Some people are really sensitive to it, and some(like me) don't notice.
 
I am glad I don't notice it on my setup. It's probably there but I sure as hell don't see it and don't care to!
 
Copyright said:
I am glad I don't notice it on my setup. It's probably there but I sure as hell don't see it and don't care to!
Click to expand...

micro-stuttering is unnoticeable.

but "stuttering" is..

people mistaken it for a long time and still do, and claim stuttering == micro-stuttering..

for some specific games like Crysis Warhead, its pure engine problem. but some people think its micro-stuttering. which is very unlikely.

and I doubt some people even know what micro-stuttering really looks and feels like..
I have experience through 3870X2/9800GX2, where the real micro-stuttering actually appear first.
 
shansoft said:
micro-stuttering is unnoticeable.

but "stuttering" is..

people mistaken it for a long time and still do, and claim stuttering == micro-stuttering..

for some specific games like Crysis Warhead, its pure engine problem. but some people think its micro-stuttering. which is very unlikely.

and I doubt some people even know what micro-stuttering really looks and feels like..
I have experience through 3870X2/9800GX2, where the real micro-stuttering actually appear first.
Click to expand...

how can you assert what you saw is a game engine flaw when there is simply no one else making that claim. furthermore, you game at 16x10 so you're less likely to encounter the issue than people gaming at higher resolutions. you've seen for yourself what most users consider micro stutter but you refuse to accept it as an example of the phenomenon. that's fine, but you're stating conjecture as fact, and that's incredibly misleading. for the record, i noticed micro stuttering before either the 3870x2 or 9800gtx came out, and some users noticed it as far back as the 7950gx2.
 
rennyf77 said:
how can you assert what you saw is a game engine flaw when there is simply no one else making that claim. furthermore, you game at 16x10 so you're less likely to encounter the issue than people gaming at higher resolutions. you've seen for yourself what most users consider micro stutter but you refuse to accept it as an example of the phenomenon. that's fine, but you're stating conjecture as fact, and that's incredibly misleading. for the record, i noticed micro stuttering before either the 3870x2 or 9800gtx came out, and some users noticed it as far back as the 7950gx2.
Click to expand...

uh? a stuttering and micro-stuttering is entirely different. and as far as we can see, it only appear in Crysis Warhead.

and no, I did game at triple monitor before ( until I am sick of black bar on both side ), and still no such thing exist.

when it occur on specific scene, and on a specific game, and just one game that have the problem, and you call that micro-stuttering.
if you think I am misleading, then you are probably the one who is doing it.

plus if micro-stuttering really noticeable enough to make user cry about it, then it would be a big problem across the multi-GPU owner, but it doesn't....
 
shansoft said:
uh? a stuttering and micro-stuttering is entirely different. and as far as we can see, it only appear in Crysis Warhead.

and no, I did game at triple monitor before ( until I am sick of black bar on both side ), and still no such thing exist.

when it occur on specific scene, and on a specific game, and just one game that have the problem, and you call that micro-stuttering.
if you think I am misleading, then you are probably the one who is doing it.

plus if micro-stuttering really noticeable enough to make user cry about it, then it would be a big problem across the multi-GPU owner, but it doesn't....
Click to expand...

do you understand the english language? how am i the misleading poster when plenty of multi gpu users say they've seen micro stuttering. you're the one person claiming that the issue is game engine based but you're stating it as if it were fact. if you posted, 'i think it's a game engine problem' then we wouldn't have a problem. your reasoning is totally broken. not every user will see micro stuttering because as people were not all the same. some will notice it while others won't. hell not everyone games on the same speced computer. you stated previously that you only noticed micro stuttering with the 3870x2 and 9800gx2 because it happened all the time so because you saw it much less often with a new generation of video card then the phonomenon is gone. how can it be gone if you still notice it? do you understand the difference between constand micro stuttering and incidental micro stuttering? incidental micro stuttering is what i've experienced with the 48xx series cards and the gtx2 series cards; it doesn't happen all the time, but i see it now and again. you want people to believe that you don't see micro stuttering, but you don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt that they do see micro stuttering. your reasoning is broken indeed.
 
rennyf77 said:
do you understand the english language? how am i the misleading poster when plenty of multi gpu users say they've seen micro stuttering. you're the one person claiming that the issue is game engine based but you're stating it as if it were fact. if you posted, 'i think it's a game engine problem' then we wouldn't have a problem. your reasoning is totally broken. not every user will see micro stuttering because as people were not all the same. some will notice it while others won't. hell not everyone games on the same speced computer. you stated previously that you only noticed micro stuttering with the 3870x2 and 9800gx2 because it happened all the time so because you saw it much less often with a new generation of video card then the phonomenon is gone. how can it be gone if you still notice it? do you understand the difference between constand micro stuttering and incidental micro stuttering? incidental micro stuttering is what i've experienced with the 48xx series cards and the gtx2 series cards; it doesn't happen all the time, but i see it now and again. you want people to believe that you don't see micro stuttering, but you don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt that they do see micro stuttering. your reasoning is broken indeed.
Click to expand...

my reason is broken? or you are simply just cannot understand what users are experiencing through.

and most of them said they notice it in Crysis Warhead and its in a specific location, but not anywhere else, not even in any other game.

Does it mean its micro-stuttering that cause it? NO.

if you still think its micro-stuttering, then keep the micro-stuttering under your phantom. do not mislead the others.
 
who are these people you're referring to who only see it in crysis and only see it on one stage, or are you just referring to yourself. no one i know who claims to see micro stuttering sees it in only one game.and can anyone else explain to this guy what i posted, because he clearly doesn't understand or purposely skipped over a bunch of stuff. by the way, boy genius what is my phantom?
 
rennyf77 said:
who are these people you're referring to who only see it in crysis and only see it on one stage, or are you just referring to yourself. no one i know who claims to see micro stuttering sees it in only one game.and can anyone else explain to this guy what i posted, because he clearly doesn't understand or purposely skipped over a bunch of stuff. by the way, boy genius what is my phantom?
Click to expand...

how many people who have micro-stuttering in this thread beside pyside, which I just stated that he is experiencing in Crysis Warhead.

please name a few of others that have the problem while 95% of multi-GPU owner in this thread have not seen a damn problem.
 
shansoft said:
how many people who have micro-stuttering in this thread beside pyside, which I just stated that he is experiencing in Crysis Warhead.

please name a few of others that have the problem while 95% of multi-GPU owner in this thread have not seen a damn problem.
Click to expand...

now you're grasping at straws, because payside never said what games he sees micro stuttering in, he just stated that he notices it in his gaming. it was kadozer that brought up crysis. furthermore, this one thread does not include every multi gpu user on these forums. to take that as any kind of justification for you're conjectures about micro stuttering is once again an example of your broken reasoning.
 
Ok let's take a step back here. The issue I see here is not denailing/confirming existence but what individuals think they believe microstutter is vs what it really is. I think the guy complaining about on his system has spoken with his last 2 comments on making his case. If its causing such a bad problem its most likely a bottleneck somewhere else and not ms.

Bottom line is ms has become nothing more than an annoyance at most and trivial in most cases. Its 2009 lol, this has been beaten to death all last year. [H] is limp with this thread. I'm embarrassed for even discussing it again.
 
kadozer said:
Bottom line is ms has become nothing more than an annoyance at most and trivial in most cases. Its 2009 lol, this has been beaten to death all last year. [H] is limp with this thread. I'm embarrassed for even discussing it again.
Click to expand...

absolutely agree with this. it seldom happens for me at 19x12 and below, that it no longer negatively effects my gameplay. at 25x16 i notice it more often. for someone who primarily games at 16x10 to tell me i don't know what i'm seeing with my own two eyes is ridiculous.
 
I must agre that is msot noticable in Warhead but it is present in Stalker and Batman also.

E.G. I'm playing a game with lets say 90 fps and later even the frames drop for only 10% it look like its 20 fps. You can notice it very easy if you keep your eyes at the sides of your screen so you can notice easier the movement "errors" frames skiping or w/e you want to call it does not matter if we call it microstuttering/stuttering or w/e its anoying and present. The good smooth, gameplay experience disappear at once when it ocurs! Trust me my 5870s are awesome when the issue is not present but every time it starts i curse the day when i decide to get 2 cards instead of one! So even god him self deny it i won't agree there is stuttering/microstuttring! I'm playing games long time and i can notice every single problem at once even, if is a bit lower graphics or issues like stated above. Heck i even noticed it on my GTX295 before.
 
I've played TONS of games on 4870 CF and never noticed any type of micro-stutter, my room mate at the time purchased a 4870X2 and never mentioned any type of Micro Stutter but he mainly played WoW and less demanding games (not really warranting a X2).
 
psyside said:
I must agre that is msot noticable in Warhead but it is present in Stalker and Batman also.

E.G. I'm playing a game with lets say 90 fps and later even the frames drop for only 10% it look like its 20 fps. You can notice it very easy if you keep your eyes at the sides of your screen so you can notice easier the movement "errors" frames skiping or w/e you want to call it does not matter if we call it microstuttering/stuttering or w/e its anoying and present. The good smooth, gameplay experience disappear at once when it ocurs! Trust me my 5870s are awesome when the issue is not present but every time it starts i curse the day when i decide to get 2 cards instead of one! So even god him self deny it i won't agree there is stuttering/microstuttring! I'm playing games long time and i can notice every single problem at once even, if is a bit lower graphics or issues like stated above. Heck i even noticed it on my GTX295 before.
Click to expand...

like I said in other thread, Stalker have that problem even on single GPU. Its one of the setting that cause it, I cant remember which one since I don't have Stalker install atm.

for Warhead, you can see in warhead but you cant find the same thing in original Crysis, thats a clear engine issue there.

about batman, I have not yet play it so I cant say anything on that since I dont even have it right now with me.

overall. I think the problem you encounter is call "stuttering" not micro-stuttering.

btw, the video you post I have no idea what is in there that seems to be "micro-stuttering" beside a the stutter I was talking about earlier in Warhead.
but for Crysis, there is no such thing exist.
 
I notice it in Crysis on my GTX295 still need to test with 5870s will report back.

This is a nice explanation of the issue

Taken from Anandtech forum:


Ok, think about this for a moment. If you're about to perform an action (let's say fire your weapon) right before video card number 1 starts rendering a frame. Let's also assume that single video card would render at 15 fps. What's the minimum latency until you see the result?

1000/15 = 66.7 milliseconds. The second card won't help here -- it needs to wait until card 1 does at least some work in order to not duplicate the work.

Now, let's say a single faster card was running at 20 fps. That's 50 ms, for a savings of 16.7 ms, or exactly the time which passes between screen refreshes on an LCD.

Worst case you could be looking at a 32 ms additional latency by going with 2x slower cards, although the FPS you see in FRAPs is 30. Also, best case you'd have 16.7 finishing just in time for the monitor to refresh. Hence, microstutter.

This isn't an issue for slower paced non-twitch games and/or running at very high frame rates per card. But if you are running at > 60 FPS on one card, why do you need 2? Since benchmarks tell you you're running at > 30 fps you may even turn on far more eyecandy than if you knew you only had 15 fps. Also, that kind of firepower is commonly paired with large monitors -- which have additional input lag and slow refresh compounding the problem.

If you don't play twitch shooters and don't notice microstutter then SLI + large LCD is not a bad way to fly. For the rest of us I'm glad there are single card solutions and CRTs.


This is the exact issues i have seen/experienced.
 
psyside said:
I notice it in Crysis on my GTX295 still need to test with 5870s will report back.

This is a nice explanation of the issue

Taken from Anandtech forum:


Ok, think about this for a moment. If you're about to perform an action (let's say fire your weapon) right before video card number 1 starts rendering a frame. Let's also assume that single video card would render at 15 fps. What's the minimum latency until you see the result?

1000/15 = 66.7 milliseconds. The second card won't help here -- it needs to wait until card 1 does at least some work in order to not duplicate the work.

Now, let's say a single faster card was running at 20 fps. That's 50 ms, for a savings of 16.7 ms, or exactly the time which passes between screen refreshes on an LCD.

Worst case you could be looking at a 32 ms additional latency by going with 2x slower cards, although the FPS you see in FRAPs is 30. Also, best case you'd have 16.7 finishing just in time for the monitor to refresh. Hence, microstutter.

This isn't an issue for slower paced non-twitch games and/or running at very high frame rates per card. But if you are running at > 60 FPS on one card, why do you need 2? Since benchmarks tell you you're running at > 30 fps you may even turn on far more eyecandy than if you knew you only had 15 fps. Also, that kind of firepower is commonly paired with large monitors -- which have additional input lag and slow refresh compounding the problem.

If you don't play twitch shooters and don't notice microstutter then SLI + large LCD is not a bad way to fly. For the rest of us I'm glad there are single card solutions and CRTs.


This is the exact issues i have seen/experienced.
Click to expand...

like I said, Warhead got problems. Stalker stutter even on single GPU so that is not the case...
 
I use to own a 4850x2 and I would notice stutter when i first started the game but the longer i played the less it stuttered. This was just my experience
 
psyside said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNcZunYJz2M&feature=related

Watch at 1.30

Another one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3O_iBoUeNU&feature=related

Should i post more ?
Click to expand...

You just posted 2 videos of Crysis benchmark that is defacto CHOPPY even the warhead one is like that too as well as other games. Where's that vid of yours? That is not microstutter, thats just regular choppiness.
Once again we know ms exists let's take a look and see what you think you are experiencing with your system. Please post more and not benchmarks but actual gaming R O F L ...or maybe you just enjoy using google searches for these ms videos with the smoking gun.
 
heh..chopey is one thing and micro stutter totaly different if you cant see it i don't blame you some people see it some aint. Anyway i'm not gonna waste my time trying to prove you there is microstuttering or whatever you wanna call it idc really.Anyway bit offtopic but very important!

Тoday i found out something really really ****ed up! Ati/Amd....

I was playing Crysis and like always maxing the graphics via drivers and in game i can afford it with my dual 5870s. Now where is the problem? whenever i left Ati CCC window/open/minimized, and chek my cpu usage guess what does it show?? an insane 25-30% of usage! Yes This is with an i7 oc to 3.8ghz! so now my guess is someone will say hey,but that is not to much, still i got like 70% free. But think about it when your in game and some heavy physyx/action is on and the amount of cpu usage of the game it self ! imho this is performance killer! i will make an depth testing and see what kind of performance i'm getting with CCC on/off and report back. My recommendation is to set your AA/AF filters etc before you go into game and always close it!
 
psyside said:
heh..chopey is one thing and micro stutter totaly different if you cant see it i don't blame you some people see it some aint. Anyway i'm not gonna waste my time trying to prove you there is microstuttering or whatever you wanna call it idc really.Anyway bit offtopic but very important!

Тoday i found out something really really ****ed up! Ati/Amd....

I was playing Crysis and like always maxing the graphics via drivers and in game i can afford it with my dual 5870s. Now where is the problem? whenever i left Ati CCC window/open/minimized, and chek my cpu usage guess what does it show?? an insane 25-30% of usage! Yes This is with an i7 oc to 3.8ghz! so now my guess is someone will say hey,but that is not to much, still i got like 70% free. But think about it when your in game and some heavy physyx/action is on and the amount of cpu usage of the game it self ! imho this is performance killer! i will make an depth testing and see what kind of performance i'm getting with CCC on/off and report back. My recommendation is to set your AA/AF filters etc before you go into game and always close it!
Click to expand...

the video is too crappy to notice, impossible to notice a thing due to shitty camera.
and btw, during the benchmark tool, there is few part that will stutter no matter what kind of GPU setup you have, and that is not micro-stuttering just let you know.. its game engine problem...

also, CCC doesn't have any CPU usage for me.... not quite sure what you have there :confused:
 
CCC, on a dual or quad core... only uses one core (and it can multi-thread, if needed).
 
When you select the 3D tab from CCC and minimize it does use 25-30%. And about the video there is parts when you can notice i have played/bencnhmark Crysis/Warhead alot and i know what parts of the bench are laggy/slow etc the part i notice the stutter was not one of them. Anyway forget it.

Edit: Yes CCC, using only 1 core still i get bad slowdowns when CCC is minimized it seems to "work"very bad/slow esepcially with other software in combination, heck even Unwinder said it.
 
psyside said:
If you don't play twitch shooters and don't notice microstutter then SLI + large LCD is not a bad way to fly. For the rest of us I'm glad there are single card solutions and CRTs.
Click to expand...

crt for fps shooters are what I use.
then for other games the lcd works great.
 
psyside said:
When you select the 3D tab from CCC and minimize it does use 25-30%. And about the video there is parts when you can notice i have played/bencnhmark Crysis/Warhead alot and i know what parts of the bench are laggy/slow etc the part i notice the stutter was not one of them. Anyway forget it.

Edit: Yes CCC, using only 1 core still i get bad slowdowns when CCC is minimized it seems to "work"very bad/slow esepcially with other software in combination, heck even Unwinder said it.
Click to expand...

ok, I just did the test for CCC when you minimize it..
it got 25% CPU usage for some reason in 3D tab o_O

but when its not minimize there is no problem with it... :confused:
 
Flopper said:
crt for fps shooters are what I use.
then for other games the lcd works great.
Click to expand...


When NANO-CRT's comes out, then I will drop my 2x21" CRT's.
I see no reason to degrade my visual image quality by any number of things:

- LCD's (Poor contrast, poor colors, poor DPI, poor refresh compared to CRT's)

-Multi-GPU (drivers issues, games with no effect, worse performance in some games
and the infamous:

- Microstutter (I prefeer a smooth gameplay and despite some people trying to dispute facts (some people still think the earth is flat...or created) microstutter is a fact...some people just don't have a sensitive perception to see it, but none alas it can be meassured.

There is nothing [H]ard about denial...or bugs...or degraded I.Q.
 
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