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why?

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eli

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
1,648
question...I hear everybody around here saying that no one needs over 430 Watts of high quality power to run basically any single proccesor system. If this is true, then why are people getting more for their system?

My system is arriving tomarrow: barton 2500, nforce 2, sapphire 9800 pro, wd raptor, 1 dvd rom, 1 kenwood 72x, 1 gig ram, sound blaster audigy.

I will be gettings lots of upgrades....like 1 mabye 2 new HDDs, dvd burner, and a cd burner. from what I gathered, the Antec True Power 430Watt, has more then enough power to drive this system. Is this true? if so, why would anyone else get a bigger power supply then 430watt?
 
It might be because they need more amperes on one voltage than a 430W PSU would deliver, while still using less than 430W all in all. (I can see it happening with some exotic cooling, for instance)

There's also the special situations. I've got a 460W, because that was they only one I could find with the right connectors for my MB.
 
one: not evryone sais that, they just recomend the antec truepower 430, b/c it s a kick ass cheap psu that has plenty of room for expansion(ie, next gen cards, more hdds/optical drives ect.)

two: most people now adays enless their running dule raid arrays and uber fans dor use much more then 350 watts, but with the next gen cards, that is bound to go to about 400 watts, and next cpu's ect. it will go up even more
 
so the system that I mentioned will easily run (with all the upgrades that I have mentioned) on the Antec True Power 430?
 
Because a power supply generates least heat and most power out at around 70% load.
So a 430 watt PSU loaded to around 300 watts will use less electricity than a 300 watt loaded to max.

Luck.........:D
 
Originally posted by the_village_treky

two: most people now adays enless their running dule raid arrays and uber fans dor use much more then 350 watts, but with the next gen cards, that is bound to go to about 400 watts, and next cpu's ect. it will go up even more
Click to expand...

Actually, cpu power usage doesn't seem to be going up. (The old athlons were monsters compared to most (not all) of what's new today, for instance. Also, the physical core size doesn't seem to grow, and there's limits to how many watts/cm² it's practical to remove with air cooling.)
 
Originally posted by HHunt
Actually, cpu power usage doesn't seem to be going up. (The old athlons were monsters compared to most (not all) of what's new today, for instance. Also, the physical core size doesn't seem to grow, and there's limits to how many watts/cm² it's practical to remove with air cooling.)
Click to expand...

the die shrinks will slow it down, but power consumption will continue to increase with transistor count. for one, look at the stock heatsinks back then, and look at them now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_power_consumption

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon_XP#Athlon_64

the older athlons definately drew a lot of power but the newer athlon64s and prescotts require even more
 
Originally posted by fugu
the die shrinks will slow it down, but power consumption will continue to increase with transistor count. for one, look at the stock heatsinks back then, and look at them now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_power_consumption

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon_XP#Athlon_64

the older athlons definately drew a lot of power but the newer athlon64s and prescotts require even more
Click to expand...

See your point, but I'm not convinced that the power usage is actually increasing that much at the moment. For instance, look at the power usage through the athlon line, and compare with the XP line, and notice the worst one uses a mere 3 W more. (Indeed, the highest clocked Palomino in that list uses less power than the highest-clocked T-bird, but that probably has other reasons).

I expect the next-gen Athlon64 to use less power than the current ones, too, optimist that I am :)

To put it another way, we aren't speaking of very many watts difference in CPU power usage through the lifetime of a PSU, compared to the other components.

Speaking of heatsinks, the ones on my current processors are positively wimpy compared to what I used on T-birds and durons a few years ago :D
(This isn't relevant, for a whole number of reasons, but I left it in anyway.)
 
so, being that the barton 2500+ is a reletively new proccesor, my system should run good on the antec true power 430?
 
Originally posted by HHunt
See your point, but I'm not convinced that the power usage is actually increasing that much at the moment. For instance, look at the power usage through the athlon line, and compare with the XP line, and notice the worst one uses a mere 3 W more. (Indeed, the highest clocked Palomino in that list uses less power than the highest-clocked T-bird, but that probably has other reasons).

I expect the next-gen Athlon64 to use less power than the current ones, too, optimist that I am :)

To put it another way, we aren't speaking of very many watts difference in CPU power usage through the lifetime of a PSU, compared to the other components.

Speaking of heatsinks, the ones on my current processors are positively wimpy compared to what I used on T-birds and durons a few years ago :D
(This isn't relevant, for a whole number of reasons, but I left it in anyway.)
Click to expand...

the way i see it is that it's a fight between transistor count and manufacturing processes. every time they switch to a better process (.18 to .13, no SOI to SOI, die rework, etc.) the power consumption drops. however, once they boost transistor count the consumption goes up again. since the athlon64 is still made on the .13 micron process but has 2x the cache of the barton plus the memory controler and all the hypertransport stuff, it'll end up sucking a lot of power by the end of the year
 
To be honest, power supplies are a lot more about quality than they are about ratings. Buy quality instead of just going by the bigger number, and you'll do just fine.

Erik
 
I went the 550 for two reasons. One I wanted Antec and two I got the unit for the price of a 430 since my distributor hosed me on shipping on time.

I do alot of business with him and so he felt obligated to provide me a supply on the day promised. I dont anticipate a need for another supply for a long long time.

P.S. Knowing I have alot of head room gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all over :D
 
Originally posted by fugu
the way i see it is that it's a fight between transistor count and manufacturing processes. every time they switch to a better process (.18 to .13, no SOI to SOI, die rework, etc.) the power consumption drops. however, once they boost transistor count the consumption goes up again. since the athlon64 is still made on the .13 micron process but has 2x the cache of the barton plus the memory controler and all the hypertransport stuff, it'll end up sucking a lot of power by the end of the year
Click to expand...

I'll agree with that :)
However, isn't it possible that practical limitations (cooling, again) might cause the power consumption to not increase very much, so you get something resembling
Trans.Count/processFactors=almostConstant ?
(You can only increase the transistor count when you compensate with new technology to stay within a practical W/cm² and W total)
 
I will be gettings lots of upgrades....like 1 mabye 2 new HDDs, dvd burner, and a cd burner. from what I gathered, the Antec True Power 430Watt, has more then enough power to drive my system plus the upgrades. I am right, right? Also, to aviod putting to much strain on one rail, how many devices should I have on each line? I know I shouldn't have my HDD and my video card on the same line, but thats really all I know. Anything else I need to know?
 
I dont want to have my computer fail on me because I used too many devices on one line.....?
 
will be gettings lots of upgrades....like 1 mabye 2 new HDDs, dvd burner, and a cd burner. from what I gathered, the Antec True Power 430Watt, has more then enough power to drive my system plus the upgrades. I am right, right? Also, to aviod putting to much strain on one rail, how many devices should I have on each line? I know I shouldn't have my HDD and my video card on the same line, but thats really all I know. Anything else I need to know?
 
You're fine.

And if you DO manage to overload it - you can always just get another one later. Its not like its a unique, irreplaceable part.

BB
 
so its enough....ok good. about the other thing.....how many devices should I have on each power supply line? are video cards and hard drives the only thing that I should have on the same line?
 
All the power out wires come back to four main spots ( +12v, +5v, +3.3v, ground) inside the power supply.
Unless you have so much load on one line that you are heating up the wires you wont burn out the supply on a good PSU.

Luck........:D
 
Well someone seems a bit anxious. Half the posts in this thread are you bumping it every hour. ;) Relax, you'll be fine with the truepower 430. You can hook whatever you want up to whatever lines that come out of the power supply. They are all the same inside. If you put something on a line that would overload the wires then you would probably fuck up the power supply in the process. The only thing I watch out for is fan pass through connectors. If you are going to use them, try to keep them on their own line(or at least don't plug anything into the end of the passthrough connector). They aren't always the best quality, and they can sometimes break the connection, which you don't want to happen on your drives.
 
More power, stablity, able to move to different computers, better warrenty. 430watts should be more than enough. My 430 is pushing 2 optical drives, with 8HD. No probs at all.
 
cool, thanks guys.....I am anxious.....I gotta lay off the caffiene
 
The reason I bought a Antec TruePower 430 is because the choices where junk 300 watters or a good one. I wanted a PSU that was reliable, quiet, and would last a real long time, and from a company that makes good shit (great warranty/RMA service :) ). A TruePower 430 is really a 430 not some trumped up ratings like you see on the cheap shitty 300watt PSU's. If Antec or some other reliable company made a True 300, I'm sure it would be enough for most systems, but like I said, most 300 watt PSU's are junk for the bottom feeders.

According to J's Custom PC PSU Calculator, I need a 475watt PSU.

XP 2000 Paly
2x256MB DDR
2 Ultra SCSI HD
2 ATA100 HD
CDR/RW
DVD ROM
Tyan G9700-proM
Adaptec SCSI Controller
Motherboard
Two Fans (80mm)
 
I just do not know about J's Custom PC PSU Calculator. According to it, my shuttle case should not be running.
 
Originally posted by darktiger
I just do not know about J's Custom PC PSU Calculator. According to it, my shuttle case should not be running.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly. Before I got my True430, I was using a Enlight 300 that came with a $30 case. It worked, but I could hear my fans slowing down when the CPU came under full load. He might be throwing in a "safety" margin so the shitty PSU's he sells won't come back as returns when they don't live up to their ratings.
 
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