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Why Windows Needs A Start Menu

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So people will quit bitching?

Microsoft plans to revive the Start menu in a future version of Windows, most likely Windows 9, aka Threshold. With the Start screen taking over as the landing page and launch pad in Windows 8, does the Start menu still serve a purpose? Yes, it does, at least in my humble opinion. I still find the Start menu more useful than the Start screen -- especially on a traditional PC -- and I welcome its return.
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I haven't used the start menu since XP and I will continue to not use it come windows 9.
 
While I've recently started using Launchy and Everything, I still rely on the Start menu (specifically the embedded search at the bottom) in 7 too much to ever 'do without'.
 
zero2dash said:
specifically the embedded search at the bottom
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This.

In 7, I use the Window key and start typing what I'm looking for all the time. Slightly annoying that I have to use Win+S in Windows 8 to do the same thing.
 
The Start Screen is fine for me. People hate change and to that effect, people will bitch about the new start menu because it looks different than in Win 7.

And you don't have to press Win + S, the Win key brings up the start screen from which any typing becomes a search.
 
Don't use the start menu much, I pin everything to the task bar. Very useful just like the similar bar in OSX. But I need it to boot to a desktop interface where I can more easily switch between multiple running applications, not click around like a giant iPad and hope I can successfully hunt for advanced menu options for when I actually need to use the system like a power user.
 
Steve said:
So people will quit bitching?
Click to expand...
No, because that's not the only problem.

The Win8 UI is ugly, ALL CAPS menus are beyond hideous and dumbing down the OS by removing functionality isn't helping anyone. MS still has the mistaken belief it can merge a casual use tablet OS and productivity oriented desktop OS.
 
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I thought they were bringing it back in an update to 8.1 that was supposed to be out soon?
 
Exavior said:
I haven't used the start menu since XP and I will continue to not use it come windows 9.
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Start menu is useful for pinning things you don't want on your taskbar. The Start screen is even better at that. It's funny how sometimes otherwise smart people just can't get around the simplest things. It's amazing actually.
 
Staples said:
And you don't have to press Win + S, the Win key brings up the start screen from which any typing becomes a search.
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This. Is it really that hard to just start typing from the start screen? If Apple made the start screen, it would be genius.
 
dgz said:
Start menu is useful for pinning things you don't want on your taskbar. The Start screen is even better at that. It's funny how sometimes otherwise smart people just can't get around the simplest things. It's amazing actually.
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Agreed. Microsoft has a good design, but apparently people can't grasp it.
 
Part of the issue is they already had a good design. One that people were familiar with. And liked.
 
SparkedFire said:
Agreed. Microsoft has a good design, but apparently people can't grasp it.
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sure there are some that just don't grasp it, but thats the same with anything out there.

i think the big problem is that people didn't want the changes MS made. it comes down to listening to your customer, which they clearly did not do.
 
dgz said:
Start menu is useful for pinning things you don't want on your taskbar. The Start screen is even better at that. It's funny how sometimes otherwise smart people just can't get around the simplest things. It's amazing actually.
Click to expand...

This is precisely the attitude that isn't needed--"I like this change, so you're stupid for not liking it."

The market said no, so clearly everyone else must be dumb. Or maybe we just didn't want an arbitrary rearrangement of how the computer has worked for the past 20+ years--there are still tasks that MUST be done in one place or the other, the "Metro" apps don't sync up with their desktop counterparts...

I fail to see how having a shiny screen covers this up or makes it a nonissue.
 
THRESHIN said:
sure there are some that just don't grasp it, but thats the same with anything out there.

i think the big problem is that people didn't want the changes MS made. it comes down to listening to your customer, which they clearly did not do.
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They did LOTS of end user research and made some design decisions. Same type of research that saved office from its 2003 menu hell into the ribbon that has proved far more useful. As time has gone on and the idea has fleshed out.
 
pxc said:
No, because that's not the only problem.

The Win8 UI is ugly, ALL CAPS menus are beyond hideous and dumbing down the OS by removing functionality isn't helping anyone. MS still has the mistaken belief it can merge a casual use tablet OS and productivity oriented desktop OS.
Click to expand...

Exactly what functionality was removed? Searching in metro works nearly identical to start menu searching in win 7
 
Riptide_NVN said:
I thought they were bringing it back in an update to 8.1 that was supposed to be out soon?
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LOLNO. If they added a Start Menu back now in a Windows 8 update, they couldn't make it a big marketing bulletpoint for the "new and fresh" Windows 9.

Secondarily, they probably realize that nothing they do at this point will salvage Windows8's terrible reputation among consumers and businesses. They could create a Metro app that prints money and the enterprise segment would still avoid it because Metro is that awful.

For now they'll continue to do bugfix updates to Windows 8 but ultimately they'd like to wash their hands of it and try to create the perception of a fresh start with Windows 9.
 
THRESHIN said:
i think the big problem is that people didn't want the changes MS made. it comes down to listening to your customer, which they clearly did not do.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's not so much that it's a bad interface, simply no one asked for it.

My gripes though, which I don't think have been addressed are:

1. It's too big and so covers anything you had running on your desktop. With the old start menu, i could have a browser open with some instruction on what to type, For example a path to some folder or whatnot, and view the instructions while typing in the search. Now, you'd have to either remember what you were going to type because it gets covered up, or explicitly use the Run... dialogue.
2. The removal of frequently used items list.
 
Because the big giant tiles look like shit and require more effort to navigate?
 
I have to jump in here because I personally found the Win8 changes very disruptive.

Every day I work with multiple versions of Windows and often with vanilla installs. Muscle memory runs deep and I find it damn annoying to get confused when moving between versions.

If Win8 was the first OS I was learning to use and I had no pre-learned muscle memory - it would be better.

If I was not required to hop between multiple versions of vanilla Windows every day, each with its own screens and settings hidden in different locations - it would be better.

If I was actually using a tablet with a touch interface, and not a desktop - it would be better.

If the Home Screen style featured contextual borders and better use of shading - it would be better. Bonus points if you could minimize/resize/dock windows I'm forced to open there...

It isn't that I hate Win8. But Win7 was good enough and I find it harder and harder to expand the depth and capability of my muscle memory each time a software developer want to get creative.
 
People think and organize is very different ways.

Some people liked old start because it was familiar and if you prefer the file/folder method of organizing and finding items it worked well. Win7 added search for those that get "lost" in the file/folder method of organization (not to mention Win7 start blew up and became cluttered).

Win8 basically tossed aside the file/folder method of organization of apps/shortcut... which angered those more comfortable with the same AND/OR engineer types who generally organize in files/folders.

Me... while I am fully capable of "searching"... I find I am not comfortable with it for anything I use commonly.

The customize-able start screen is ok, can pin all your common apps there, easy to use.. The sub start menu like start page is a useless pile of trash that pukes icons all over your screen.

I personally find taking up a whole screen for start seems wasteful. I think it would have been better received if they would have just kept expanding the 2 column start menu into a more customized widget showing menu like the start screen but only using the space it needs. Users could then customize to fit their preferences, whether it is whole screen or just start menu sized.
 
Sovereign said:
This is precisely the attitude that isn't needed--"I like this change, so you're stupid for not liking it."

The market said no, so clearly everyone else must be dumb. Or maybe we just didn't want an arbitrary rearrangement of how the computer has worked for the past 20+ years--there are still tasks that MUST be done in one place or the other, the "Metro" apps don't sync up with their desktop counterparts...

I fail to see how having a shiny screen covers this up or makes it a nonissue.
Click to expand...

You're putting words in my mouth. Where did I say anyone is stupid? I am simply amazed how smart people outright refuse to accept minor changes. The amazing part is that often these "painful" things are so trivial and easily restored, that it's not really practical to even talk about them more than once. Let alone involving so much passion.

I've seen it in many instances. My theory is even smart people are sometimes influenced by the other sheep. It happens all the time. No doubt it happens to me, too.
 
dandirk said:
People think and organize is very different ways.

Some people liked old start because it was familiar and if you prefer the file/folder method of organizing and finding items it worked well. Win7 added search for those that get "lost" in the file/folder method of organization (not to mention Win7 start blew up and became cluttered).

Win8 basically tossed aside the file/folder method of organization of apps/shortcut... which angered those more comfortable with the same AND/OR engineer types who generally organize in files/folders.

Me... while I am fully capable of "searching"... I find I am not comfortable with it for anything I use commonly.

The customize-able start screen is ok, can pin all your common apps there, easy to use.. The sub start menu like start page is a useless pile of trash that pukes icons all over your screen.

I personally find taking up a whole screen for start seems wasteful. I think it would have been better received if they would have just kept expanding the 2 column start menu into a more customized widget showing menu like the start screen but only using the space it needs. Users could then customize to fit their preferences, whether it is whole screen or just start menu sized.
Click to expand...

Im an engineer I use a file/folder structure in windows 8 to organize everything besides shortcuts the exact same way I did in windows 7. Seriously most people commenting here have spent very very little time with win8 its its so utterly obvious how oblivious they are
 
schizrade said:
They did LOTS of end user research and made some design decisions.
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That statement is so backwards it borders on criminal. Its precisely because Sinofsky DIDNT listen to user feedback and vast numbers of Microsoft employees internally - infamously so - that Windows 8 flopped so hard.

Sinofsky was given the power by Ballmer (where is he now?) to ram through his "I know best" approach, which caused Sinofsky to find himself out on his ass as Windows 8 was launching. Microsoft realized the magnitude of the error too late and too far along in the development process - and had to punt, and that football was Windows 8.
 
schizrade said:
Still there

http://www.technorms.com/27427/work-jump-lists-windows-8
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Actually I rarely use these (glad to know what they're called now though)

The list i was referring to was the frequently used application list on the left-side of the start menu. So if i've been launching calc a lot, now it's in the list.

I realize that i could pin things, but many applications i don't want to pin, but like to have them within 2 clicks since i use them semi-frequently.
 
Windows needs a start button and Win95-ish start menu because Windows is for people who don't know how to use computers. Lesser creatures that can't figure anything out and want to use some dumb touchscreen to poke at pretty pictures and pretend like they're important when they spend an extra 2-3 minutes getting out their device, opening a program, using a stylus to write something down, and then saving their work because they're not competent enough to carry a memo pad and pen to a meeting are the ones using Windows. People of transcendent intellect obviously install Slackware without a GUI and resort to CLI-only are clearly superior.
 
Funny that they are saving it for windows 9. I mean you have to give people a reason to upgrade.
Either way I'm glad it coming back. The start screen is usable on small touchscreens but on large high rez displays its a total disaster. Why anyone would want a touchscreen on a desktop pc is beyond me but whatever.
 
Staples said:
People hate change and to that effect, people will bitch about the new start menu because it looks different than in Win 7..
Click to expand...

This is incorrect. Some people hate change and dislike it because it's different. There are others that enjoy change, and will be the first to try out the new OS, but still dislike the way it changed. Not because it changed or because they can't use it, but because it isn't a good change.

I love Windows 8, and I find it hard to drop back down to 7. But, there is still a great feel with the Start Menu, and it's easy to use.

With the Start screen, it's easy, but it's not any faster (unless you're a knowledgeable user and can just type what you want and go... which can be slower at times). People have gotten efficient with the old way. They changed it for a all-in-one interface for touch and desktop. It works great for touch, but it's not as good with desktop use. It works fine, but it's not the best answer for the problem. There isn't an "all-in-one" UI that is perfect for both. Not one that has been developed, anyway. Microsoft has acknowledged this and is coming up with a remedy.

Ask people about Windows Phone, Windows Tablets and Windows Desktops. They love the tile interface on the touch, handheld devices. Desktops and laptops - not so much. So, they can love Windows 8 on a platform where it makes sense. They don't fear or hate the change, they love it. It's when you go to the desktop where Modern UI loses it's love. Not because of change. But, because it's not the optimal UI for it. I'm definitely not saying the Start Menu is. It is ancient, and does a decent job, but it's not the best. Hopefully, a better model comes out that is better. I like live tiles, and would love to get away from the more static icon's on a desktop. Just haven't seen one that fits the bill and works good for everyone.
 
chockomonkey said:
The list i was referring to was the frequently used application list on the left-side of the start menu. So if i've been launching calc a lot, now it's in the list.
Click to expand...

This is actually in Windows 8.1. On the Apps Screen, there's the option to sort by name, date installed, category and most used. I've found this sorting to be very useful.
 
Does Windows 9 support ABE enabled network start menus again? If not it can go right in the trash bin.
 
I really only use the start menu for the "run" command. Funny thing is I use Windows 8.1 and all previous versions(7, XP, 2000, 98) like I've used Windows 3.1. I put my most used programs on the desktop (maybe 10 icons) and put lesser used shortcuts in a folder(like the 3.1 Program Manager) on the desktop. Also use quick launch but again those are almost like desktop icons to me.
 
I have two options. Opening a start menu the size of a post card in the bottom of the screen and then navigating through endless subfolders or I can open a start menu that spans the entire screen and has everything laid out in plain view right off the bat.

One week of using it sporadically was all it took to get used to and navigate with the same speed and ease as Windows 7. People need to quick crying about change.
 
Blown 89 said:
I have two options. Opening a start menu the size of a post card in the bottom of the screen and then navigating through endless subfolders or I can open a start menu that spans the entire screen and has everything laid out in plain view right off the bat.
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Does not scale well when you have 100s of items in the menu.
 
Parja said:
This.

In 7, I use the Window key and start typing what I'm looking for all the time. Slightly annoying that I have to use Win+S in Windows 8 to do the same thing.
Click to expand...

You are aware that this is exactly how searching works in Windows 8 as well, right? Hit the windows key, type what you want, hit enter, use your program.
 
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