Why OLED for PC use?

[Zarathustra[H]]

View attachment 556713

This illustrates the problem with FALD better than anything else.

I don't care how bright it gets, if it does this, I don't want it.

This is one of the two reasons I keep HDR disabled on the desktop on my current Asus XG438Q. This and the fact that white windows on dark backgrounds are uncomfortably bright.

(Well that, and Linux to my knowledge does not yet support HDR outside of special driver side implementations for video decode and vulkan for gaming on AMD, but to be fair, I keep HDR off in Windows too, unless I'm about to launch a game that takes good advantage of it, and then I turn it off again right after I close the game))

 

[MistaSparkul]

I sorta agree with Kram on making the image look better by stretching the original SDR presentation into a fake HDR, I mean that's what AutoHDR does you are basically just shoehorning some bootleg HDR into a game that was never intended to look that way in the first place, and yet it can deliver excellent results at times depending on the game and monitor you are using. So the whole idea of "better images" despite everything just being stretched beyond it's intended color space and dynamic range yeah I can agree with that as I'm an AutoHDR user, but I don't agree with him saying that OLED displays isn't capable of delivering those better images. AutoHDR on OLED can definitely look great and much better than the original SDR sRGB presentation. Also, I strongly do not recommend anyone try his "SDR400" trick of cranking brightness up to the max and forcing wide color gamut, that seriously just makes games look ridiculously oversaturated and 400+ nits of sustained fullscreen brightness is really UNCOMFORTABLE to look at for more than a few minutes. Instead, just use Special K. Shadow Warrior 3 now looks amazing with Special K's HDR. Highlights like the sun now have the pop that they should without overblowing out and oversaturating the rest of the image.

 

[Nenu]

Cannot see much difference on your limited OLED huh?

YCbCR is used to optimize luminance. You can crank up brightness to see the increased contrast easily as long as you can actually increase brightness . Since you cannot see it with OLED on SDR. I can show you what it looks like in emulated SDR in HDR mode.

I hope your OLED have enough range to see FALD miniLED SDR.

This is the screenshot from game. Download the jxr image to view in HDR mode to see the emulated version of SDR.
View attachment 556586

Emulated SDR sRGB 80nits


Emulated SDR BT1866 + sRGB + high brightness


Emulated SDR BT1866 + WideGamut + high brightness


The last two images are exactly what it looks like on FALD miniLED such as PG32UQX, PG27UQ, PG35VQ. You should've realized the SDR you see on these monitors is your OLED HDR.

Speaking of the dynamic range, the SDR BT1866 + WideGamut + high brightness is easily 3x more than mere sRGB with 500+nits peak brightness. It's not my business If you like very accurate dim sRGB. My eyes like to see better.
View attachment 556587

Its amusing you have no idea what you are talking about.
Oh, and I'm not using OLED

 

[Nenu]

FALD miniLED SDR is your OLED HDR.

Your reply makes no sense as usual, and again, I'm not using OLED

 

[Senn]

I sorta agree with Kram on making the image look better by stretching the original SDR presentation into a fake HDR

Agreeing or disagreeing with his opinion isn't the issue here I don't think... it's the way we get shat on if we don't agree with every single thing he says.

"Better images" is ALWAYS a subjective matter. Every time.

HDR isn't "better" than SDR in every situation, it's just a different way of representing something and some people may not prefer it. Desktop use being a perfect example. It's more advanced for sure. It requires more capable tech to achieve. Doesn't make it automatically "better".

 

[MistaSparkul]

Agreeing or disagreeing with his opinion isn't the issue here I don't think... it's the way we get shat on if we don't agree with every single thing he says.

"Better images" is ALWAYS a subjective matter. Every time.

HDR isn't "better" than SDR in every situation, it's just a different way of representing something and some people may not prefer it. Desktop use being a perfect example. It's more advanced for sure. It requires more capable tech to achieve. Doesn't make it automatically "better".

Yeah it's definitely subjective, and it's clearly obvious that he prefers to force increased dynamic range into every content and then say that it is objectively better that way, which it's not. Whether an image looks better in it's original sRGB presentation or a forced HDR look is purely a matter of opinion but he's treating his preference of which is better as hard facts and anyone who says otherwise "doesn't understand" or "doesn't want to see better images" lol.

 

[kramnelis]

Ok so I got a Macbook Pro 16" M2 Max today so I can finally join in on this game by having a good enough screen for this.

I downloaded the file and opened it in Affinity Photo 2 and yes, the right and bottom image do look better by quite a bit.

Can you explain what has been done to this image exactly to achieve the result, if the starting point is a regular SDR image assuming grabbed from a film?

I tried opening the image also on my Samsung G70A, which of course is a "barely 400 nits, shit tier HDR" LCD display. The image just looked like it was blown out, it looked terrible and only the SDR image was able to show any of the detail in the smoke for example. I get similar results on my Macbook Pro unless I run at the P3-1600, P3-500 nits or HDR video presets.

You need to use windows system to view the HDR jxr file.

 

[kramnelis]

Your reply makes no sense as usual, and again, I'm not using OLED

I don't care if you are using a 200nits or not lol.

 

[kramnelis]

I sorta agree with Kram on making the image look better by stretching the original SDR presentation into a fake HDR, I mean that's what AutoHDR does you are basically just shoehorning some bootleg HDR into a game that was never intended to look that way in the first place, and yet it can deliver excellent results at times depending on the game and monitor you are using. So the whole idea of "better images" despite everything just being stretched beyond it's intended color space and dynamic range yeah I can agree with that as I'm an AutoHDR user, but I don't agree with him saying that OLED displays isn't capable of delivering those better images. AutoHDR on OLED can definitely look great and much better than the original SDR sRGB presentation. Also, I strongly do not recommend anyone try his "SDR400" trick of cranking brightness up to the max and forcing wide color gamut, that seriously just makes games look ridiculously oversaturated and 400+ nits of sustained fullscreen brightness is really UNCOMFORTABLE to look at for more than a few minutes. Instead, just use Special K. Shadow Warrior 3 now looks amazing with Special K's HDR. Highlights like the sun now have the pop that they should without overblowing out and oversaturating the rest of the image.

So you still don't understand why I say you need at least a X27/PG27UQ alike. Do you calibrate your monitor for sRGB? No?

Once it is calibrated or it is use a pre-calibrated icm profile in WHQL driver the wide gamut won't be oversaturated. It will be stretched properly. What you see on the wide gamut SDR is basically HDR400.

 

[kramnelis]

I don't know where to start. You shouldn't even be able to post on this forum anymore at this point.

Because guys are lying straight lol. sRGB looks the same on every office monitor. Is that a better image lol?

 

[MistaSparkul]

So you still don't understand why I say you need at least a X27/PG27UQ alike. Do you calibrate your monitor for sRGB? No?

Once it is calibrated or it is use a pre-calibrated icm profile in WHQL driver the wide gamut won't be oversaturated. It will be stretched properly. What you see on the wide gamut SDR is basically HDR400.

Uhh I literally followed your specific instructions which did NOT include to calibrate for sRGB dude. Now you're telling me this would only work on an X27 that's been calibrated to sRGB? wtf lol. No thanks I'll stick to Special K HDR + InnoCN, still way better than 120 nits SDR. Not to mention with Special K I don't have to go fudging around my monitor and OS and NCVP settings just to get some SDR400 working, I can just fire up Special K and get an pseudo HDR1000 effect on a per game basis on the fly. If anyone else is curious here's a link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1123osi/force_autohdr_on_unsupported_game/

Turn on local dimming. Crack up brightness. Turn off YCbCr sRGB gamma. Use YCbCR444 format in Nvidia panel. Then choose wide gamut. It's basically HDR400. It needs a competent HDR display to do it properly.

This is exactly what I did, no calibrating for sRGB. So why set my monitor to do 400 nits fullscreen when I can get 1000 nit highlights instead?

 

[kramnelis]

If you love bright with bloom, lifting, and fluctuating luminance go for it but I can't stand it.

Tradeoffs .. QN95B/QN90B QDLED FALD LCD. Gaming mode is much worse than HDR movie modes too.

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Looking forward to some reviews on the meta lens tech OLEDs. 😎

I like how you use your overblown photo to demonstrate blooming while in real scene FALD easily destroy OLED monitors

HDR version


PNG version

AW3423DW

PG35VQ

Original HDR

 

[Senn]

Because guys are lying straight lol. sRGB looks the same on every office monitor. Is that a better image lol?

"Better" is subjective opinion. HDR isn't needed for office work so who cares anyway? You seem to care too much.

Besides, some people have more than one display. sRGB monitor for work because nothing else is necessary unless your job requires it. Nice high end HDR display for gaming and movies/TV.

FALD, OLED, doesn't matter. Personal choice.

Problem solved.

Edit... also the idea that everything you do with a computer display or TV has to look like a window to the outside world is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Nenu]

I don't care if you are using a 200nits or not lol.

You make no sense.

 

[kramnelis]

Uhh I literally followed your specific instructions which did NOT include to calibrate for sRGB dude. Now you're telling me this would only work on an X27 that's been calibrated to sRGB? wtf lol. No thanks I'll stick to Special K HDR + InnoCN, still way better than 120 nits SDR. Not to mention with Special K I don't have to go fudging around my monitor and OS and NCVP settings just to get some SDR400 working, I can just fire up Special K and get an pseudo HDR1000 effect on a per game basis on the fly. If anyone else is curious here's a link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1123osi/force_autohdr_on_unsupported_game/

Just because you turn on wide gamut doesn't mean the monitor needs no calibration for sRGB or Adobe RGB. That's why I tell you it needs X27 since I assume you have WHQL driver installed with dual profiles.

 

[kramnelis]

You make no sense.

You understand nothing then lol.

 

[kramnelis]

you dont understand that people are sick of your bullshit goalpost moving and dismissal of any opinion other than yours. as stated over and over ""Better" is subjective opinion".

most of his post dont.

Better is better. It's bullshit when you lying straight to say sRGB looks better lol.

 

[Senn]

kramnelis: I don't care if you don't see better images lol

Also kramnelis: this entire thread

 

[kramnelis]

Yeah this is ridiculous. It's even counter-productive - you won't improve FLAD LCD sales by acting like that.

It's nothing about recommend you buying a FALD LCD. It's always about OLED being worse for PC use.

 

[Senn]

It's always about OLED being worse for PC use.

Which is always nothing more than your opinion.

 

[MistaSparkul]

Just because you turn on wide gamut doesn't mean the monitor needs no calibration for sRGB or Adobe RGB. That's why I tell you it needs X27 since I assume you have WHQL driver installed with dual profiles.

Even if calibration addresses the super saturated colors, I still find it hard to believe that method is going to look better than Special K. With local dimming enabled in SDR mode the X27 is capped to a max brightness of just over 300 nits. If you run HDR mode and force it through Special K you can tweak the highlights to output 1000+ nits. I'll take my 1000 nits sun over a 300 nits one.

 

[kramnelis]

now youre lying, because i never said anything like that in this entire thread. go ahead and look for yourself. get off your high horse, ffs.

I never lied a single thing about OLED being worse. It's you guys lying straight a worse image with limited range that looks the same as every office monitor lol.

And I just remember aren't you that guy claimed to be a hardcore players use CRT instead of a modern 360Hz monitor? Come and play with competitive players with a 360Hz TN lol.

 

[kramnelis]

Even if calibration addresses the super saturated colors, I still find it hard to believe that method is going to look better than Special K. With local dimming enabled in SDR mode the X27 is capped to a max brightness of just over 300 nits. If you run HDR mode and force it through Special K you can tweak the highlights to output 1000+ nits. I'll take my 1000 nits sun over a 300 nits one.

Well can you use special K on that SDR game you play? If AutoHDR or Special K is available then of course the higher range of HDR version can be better than wide gamut SDR.

 

[kramnelis]

you are lying by saying people said this or that when no such thing has happened. over and over with your lies.
again, another lie.
stop lying.

You are lying straight. Office-look limited sRGB looks better than high range images lol. It's like denying 120fps better than 60fps.

 

[Senn]

Office-look limited sRGB looks better than high range images lol.

No one has said that.

It's like denying 120fps better than 60fps.

I'd rather watch a film at 24fps than one interpolated to 60 or higher. "Soap opera effect" looks awful to me.

 

[kramnelis]

No one has said that.


I'd rather watch a film at 24fps than one interpolated to 60 or higher. "Soap opera effect" looks awful to me.

Really? Then who's that owner of HDR300 OLED 27GR85QE saying he prefers sRGB when he can only see sRGB.

And good luck playing game at 60fps instead of 360fps.

 

[Senn]

Really? Then who's that owner of HDR300 OLED 27GR85QE saying he prefers sRGB when he can only see sRGB.

If you've got a case to prove, you need to go find the evidence. Because I haven't seen any such claim.

 

[kramnelis]

you are just making up bullshit or you dont have a proper grasp on the english language.
youve lied over and over about what people have said.
ive never said either of those.

You are mucking up bullshit instead. I can counter whatever you said.

 

[kramnelis]

If you've got a case to prove, you need to go find the evidence. Because I haven't seen any such claim.

Because your monitor cannot see HDR huh?

 

[Senn]

I can counter whatever you said.

Technically true, even if most of what you're saying is a load of crap.

 

[Senn]

Because your monitor cannot see HDR huh?

Excuse me? How many times have I said what display I'm using?

Here's some advice. Read what people say. Remember who says what.

If you can't do this, shut up.

 

[kasakka]

You need to use windows system to view the HDR jxr file.

Ok so I had HDR support off in Affinity Photo 2 on Windows, that's why it didn't look right. MacOS had it on by default. I tested this with Photos in Windows and Affinity Photo 2 in both MacOS and Windows and with my G70A they look identical. So it works as intended in Affinity Photo.

For this image at least, I don't find that much of a difference between the G70A with it's <400 nits, 10 dimming zone HDR mode vs the Macbook Pro's far superior mini-LED, 1600 nits, 10K zones (according to Apple). I will try to test with my OLED TV as well tomorrow, but to me that should also be perfectly capable of showing this.

I'd love to see the original footage to compare, if it's somewhere online for any of the stuff you've posted.

I'm still interested in how you are making these images, what's the process?

PS. Comparing HDR video with the two extremes of displays I have, the Mac resolves far more detail in bright areas with a lot better black depth/detail. Blooming on it is actually pretty unnoticeable apart from cursor over black background type situations. Starfield test does look pretty terrible tho. Pixel response times are straight up bad, with trailing visible for example when moving windows.

 

[kramnelis]

Technically true, even if most of what you're saying is a load of crap.

It's never load of crap. It's just the truth lol.

Excuse me? How many times have I said what display I'm using?

Here's some advice. Read what people say. Remember who says what.

If you can't do this, shut up.

You use whatever you want. OLED is worse for PC use lol.

 

[Senn]

You use whatever you want.

So you can't remember what I said.

OLED is worse for PC use lol.

Your opinion.

 

[kramnelis]

Ok so I had HDR support off in Affinity Photo 2 on Windows, that's why it didn't look right. MacOS had it on by default. I tested this with Photos in Windows and Affinity Photo 2 in both MacOS and Windows and with my G70A they look identical. So it works as intended in Affinity Photo.

For this image at least, I don't find that much of a difference between the G70A with it's <400 nits, 10 dimming zone HDR mode vs the Macbook Pro's far superior mini-LED, 1600 nits, 10K zones (according to Apple). I will try to test with my OLED TV as well tomorrow, but to me that should also be perfectly capable of showing this.

I'd love to see the original footage to compare, if it's somewhere online for any of the stuff you've posted.

I'm still interested in how you are making these images, what's the process?

PS. Comparing HDR video with the two extremes of displays I have, the Mac resolves far more detail in bright areas with a lot better black depth/detail. Blooming on it is actually pretty unnoticeable apart from cursor over black background type situations. Pixel response times are straight up bad, with trailing visible for example when moving windows.

The image on the left corner is just sRGB 80nits emulation. Don't tell me they look identical compared to other 2.

 

[kramnelis]

So you can't remember what I said.


Your opinion.

I like how you trash talk to infinity.

 

[Senn]

I like how you trash talk to infinity.

Hypocrisy too eh?

 

[kasakka]

The image on the left corner is just sRGB 80nits emulation. Don't tell me they look identical compared to other 2.

I never did. I straight up said the right and bottom pics look better. I'm comparing the quality of those to how they look on the G70A vs Macbook Pro and ignoring the SDR emulation option there.

 

[kramnelis]

I never did. I straight up said the right and bottom pics look better. I'm comparing the quality of those to how they look on the G70A vs Macbook Pro and ignoring the SDR emulation option there.

Then there is a 4th image that looks rather similar to the right and bottom images.

 

[pendragon1]

hypocrite, liar and just plain doesnt understand. the admins say its not a bot, just a foreigner, but i have my doubts...