Why OLED for PC use?

Senn said:
Why do you keep repeating the same point? OLED "not having better images" is your opinion. We already know what your opinion is, it feels like we've had it repeated more times than the earth has ever rotated.

OLED works for some and not others. FALD works for some and not others. Arrogantly pushing your opinion over and over isn't doing you any favours.
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This is not an opinion. OLED is not better for PC use. It doesn't have better HDR. HDR is the future. FALD is the future.

OLED works for only a few who stuck in lifeless sRGB lol. And FALD wasn't even bad in sRGB if needed.
 
Funny, only actual fools use displays. All displays are objectively garbage. I just look outside and I see real life. You can't even see real life so you cope by looking at your dull and lifeless FALD and OLED monitors.
 
AwesomeOwl said:
Funny, only actual fools use displays. All displays are objectively garbage. I just look outside and I see real life. You can't even see real life so you cope by looking at your dull and lifeless FALD and OLED monitors.
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These OLED users must hide inside their caves for so long to miss the real life lol.
 
kramnelis said:
These OLED users must hide inside their caves for so long to miss the real life lol.
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You use displays, yes? You can't even see real life when you look at a display. You can't even see real life at all. I don't even use displays. I am on a completely different plane of existence than you. I'm using text to speech software so I don't have to waste my life looking at low brightness displays like you do. As I am dictating this post I am looking directly at the sun which is far brighter than whatever garbage display you're using could ever dream of being, and it's even slightly overcast.
 
Senn said:
It 100% is.

For office work? Really?

I'd argue a self-emissive tech with the (optional!) brightness levels of FALD and no burn-in concerns are the future, we're just not quite there yet.
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No. It's not an opinion. FALD is objectively a lot better than OLED in most cases.

I said you don't understand HDR. You can adjust HDR brightness for SDR office work no problem.

You can wait for another decade for microLED to popularize. But I tell you it won't be made by OLED manufacturers. The current Apple microLED supplier is neither from LG nor Samsung.

Senn said:
...why? What's with this response, every single time?
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You make me laugh every single time with your ignorance.
 
Senn said:
I'd argue a self-emissive tech with the (optional!) brightness levels of FALD and no burn-in concerns are the future, we're just not quite there yet.
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They'll go brighter than current FALDs potentially/ultimately but ABL will have to be addressed

It's all tradeoffs. Per pixel emissive is the future just as much as HDR is. - - Per pixel emissive is here - - with tradeoffs just like brighter HDR is here with FALD's stop-gap solution tradeoffs. They will both fail good brightness and blooming, uniformity, variance tests. Ad nauseam: pick your poison.

. . .

I did look into these samsung FALD tvs previously as I was curious how the FALD tech option was doing on that front.

Rtings reports in the quotes, other comments are mine.

===========================================

QN90B

- Bright SDR (for bright room use since our eyes work in a relative way 😝 )
- Aggressive ABL
"The Samsung QN90B has fantastic peak brightness in SDR. It's bright enough to overcome glare in any room, even if you have a lot of windows or lights. Unfortunately, large bright scenes are dimmed considerably by the TV's Automatic Brightness limiter (ABL)."

-Local Dimming even worse in Game Mode. More blooming, slow transitions visible.
"Unfortunately, like most Samsung TVs, the local dimming feature performs worse overall in 'Game' Mode. The overall performance is pretty similar, but the TV seems to be spreading highlights out over a greater number of zones, so there's a bit more noticeable blooming. The processing is also slightly slower, so zone transitions are more noticeable. However, it's mainly due to the increased blooming. On the other hand, shadow details are a bit better, and there's less black crush overall."
- conversely worse shadow details in movies, more black crush

- - Blooming and varying elevated blacks in adjacent areas (and sometimes even non-adjacent) in dynamic content are unavoidable on FALD densities we have now. Tradeoffs = Not very noticeable, not too bad, can live with it, could be worse . . etc. They are all tradeoffs :rolleyes:
Movies rather than the worse game mode: "There's a bit of blooming around bright objects in dark scenes" - - - > "but it's not very noticeable." - but but but. . how very is very ? noticeable = noticeable tradeoff

-shows things brighter than intended, clips, loses detail.
"most scenes appear significantly brighter than the content creator intended. There's also a very sharp cutoff at the TV's peak brightness, which causes bright white highlights to clip, so fine details are lost. It also behaves differently with different content, as content mastered at 4,000 cd/m² starts to roll off at lower peak brightness, as the TV's tone mapping kicks in earlier than with 1,000 and 600 cd/m² content."

-PWM an issue in some modes , may make some modes and settings unusable.
"The Samsung QN90B uses pulse width modulation (PWM) to dim its backlight, and the flicker frequency varies between picture modes and with certain settings. In 'Movie' mode, with the backlight set between '46' and the max of '50', the backlight flickers at 120Hz. However, it increases to 960Hz with a backlight setting below '46'. The flicker frequency drops to 120Hz in the 'Dynamic', 'Natural', 'Standard', and 'Filmmaker' Picture Modes, or if you enable the Game Mode or Picture Clarity settings. This low flicker frequency can cause headaches if you're sensitive to flicker, and it also causes image duplications with 60Hz content."

"The LG C2 isn't quite flicker-free, as there's a small decrease in brightness that corresponds with the refresh cycle of the display. It's very different from pulse width modulation flicker (PWM) on TVs with LED backlights. "

Samsung QN90B PWM . . LG C2 VRR backlight . . S95B OLED backlight

-- Directions,... err.. screen surface, unclear. Rainbow matte AG layer ( doesn't have the rainbow version on the 43" and 50" models though at least)
"Rainbow sheen from AG coating if light hits it" - also lifted blacks and compromised detail, lack of as saturated of a look, etc. from any activated by ambient lighting matte type AG surface abrasion

- BGR (OLED is pentile or WRGB though)

- OLED has better contrast (into the depths of oblivion and side-by side pixel vs colors rather than brickwork of large zones) and no blooming around bright objects in bright scenes, no varying black background lifting adjacent to bright areas, highlights stand out since they are down to razor's edge per pixel next to darks.
"The LG C2 OLED and the Samsung QN90B QLED are both impressive TVs, and the best one depends on your viewing conditions. The LG is a better choice for a dim or dark room, as it has much better contrast and no blooming around bright objects in dark scenes. The Samsung TV, on the other hand, is a better choice for a bright room, as it gets significantly brighter.

. .

QN 95B QD LED LCD

Per RTings (official RTings in the quotes):

- Bright SDR (for bright room use since our eyes work in a relative way 😝 )
- Aggressive ABL
"The Samsung QN95B has superb peak brightness in SDR. It's bright enough to overcome glare in any room, even if you have a lot of windows or lights. Unfortunately, large bright scenes are dimmed considerably by the TV's Automatic Brightness limiter (ABL),"


-Local Dimming even worse in Game Mode
"Unfortunately, like most Samsung TVs, the local dimming feature performs worse overall in 'Game' Mode. The overall performance is pretty similar, but the TV seems to be spreading highlights out over a greater number of zones, so there's a bit more noticeable blooming. The processing is also slightly slower, so zone transitions are more noticeable. However, it's mainly due to the increased blooming. On the other hand, shadow details are a bit better, and there's less black crush overall."

= Zoned out. Confining to less zones on highlights sounds like more black crush and more lost details, spreading to more zones has more blooming and slower more overt transitions.

-Slightly worse color than the QN90B
"The Samsung QN95B has decent HDR color volume, but it's slightly worse than the Samsung QN90B QLED. It's mainly limited by its incomplete color gamut, but colors aren't quite as bright as they should be"

- - - Blooming and varying elevated blacks in adjacent areas (and sometimes even non-adjacent) in dynamic content are unavoidable on FALD densities we have now.
"Some blooming around bright objects"
-Local Dimming even worse in Game Mode. More blooming, slow transitions visible.
"Unfortunately, like most Samsung TVs, the local dimming feature performs worse overall in 'Game' Mode. The overall performance is pretty similar, but the TV seems to be spreading highlights out over a greater number of zones, so there's a bit more noticeable blooming. The processing is also slightly slower, so zone transitions are more noticeable. However, it's mainly due to the increased blooming. On the other hand, shadow details are a bit better, and there's less black crush overall."
- - conversely worse shadow details in movies, more black crush

-- Directions,... err.. screen surface, unclear. Rainbow matte AG layer on all models I think
"Rainbow sheen from AG coating if light hits it" - also lifted blacks and compromised detail, lack of as saturated of a look, etc. from any activated by ambient lighting matte type AG surface abrasion

- BGR (OLED is pentile or WRGB though)

-PWM an issue in some modes , may make some modes and settings unusable.
  • In 'Movie' mode, with the backlight set between '38' and the max of '50', the backlight flickers at 120Hz. However, it increases to 960Hz with a backlight setting below '38'.
  • The flicker frequency drops to 120Hz in the 'Dynamic', 'Natural', 'Standard', and 'Filmmaker' Picture Modes. This low flicker frequency can cause headaches if you're sensitive to flicker, and it also causes image duplications with 60Hz content.
  • In 'Game' mode, it flickers at 120Hz with a backlight setting of '36' and up, and it flickers at 960Hz below '36'. If you enable the variable refresh rate feature, it always flickers at 960Hz.
  • In 'PC' mode, it always flickers at 120Hz in the 'Graphics' Picture Mode. In the 'Entertain' mode, it flickers at 120Hz with a backlight setting below 49, but it's flicker-free at 49 or 50.

"The LG C2 isn't quite flicker-free, as there's a small decrease in brightness that corresponds with the refresh cycle of the display. It's very different from pulse width modulation flicker (PWM) on TVs with LED backlights. "

Samsung QN95B PWM . . LG C2 VRR backlight . . S95B OLED backlight

- OLED has better contrast (into the depths of oblivion and side-by side pixel vs colors rather than brickwork of large zones) and no blooming around bright objects in bright scenes, no varying black background lifting adjacent to bright areas, highlights stand out since they are down to razor's edge per pixel next to darks.
"The LG C2 OLED delivers a better dark room viewing experience than the Samsung QN95B QLED, but the Samsung looks better than the LG in a bright room. The LG's near-infinite contrast ratio delivers incredibly deep, uniform blacks, and lets bright highlights stand out with no blooming. The Samsung, on the other hand, gets significantly brighter, so it's a better choice for a bright room with lots of natural light."

. . .

QN900B is their 8k tv which also has some tradeoffs.

Worth mentioning since they keep being brought up that the aggressive ABL on them is listed in reviews as a con. I think all of the 2022 2000nit qd-led LCDs do, incl. their 8k one. Not sure what the C 2023 ones are going to do but I read that their 8k 2023 900C flagship has lower brightness than their 2022 models so maybe that one doesn't will have to see reviews on it later. Idk if 2000nit+ progressing toward 4000nit, 10,000nit will be able to avoid ABL even on FALD leds unless they do some serious cooling and/or refine the tech brightness vs heat somehow. The FALD zones behave much worse in game mode on samsung LED FALD tvs too.

-Weird gray uniformity issue with a large dark band across middle of screen + can actually see the backlight brickwork grid in solid bright fields of color (wtf) :
"The Samsung QN900B has just decent gray uniformity. There's a large dark band across the entire width of the screen, which is distracting when watching sports. The sides of the screen are also a bit darker than the center. Unfortunately, the LED backlight grid is noticeable with certain content, especially if the TV is displaying a white screen or any uniform color."

-PWM an issue in some modes , may make some modes and settings unusable:
  • In 'Dynamic', 'Standard', and 'FILMMAKER' modes, the backlight always flickers at 120Hz. This low flicker frequency can cause headaches if you're sensitive to flicker, and it also causes image duplications with 60Hz content.
  • In 'Movie' and 'Game' mode, the backlight flickers at '960Hz' if the 'Brightness' setting is between 0 and 30. The flicker frequency drops to 120Hz with 'Brightness' set to 31 or higher.
  • With the input label set to 'PC', it flickers at 120Hz with a 'Brightness' setting of 46 or lower in both 'Entertain' and 'Graphic' modes, but it's flicker-free between 47 and 50.
"The LG C2 isn't quite flicker-free, as there's a small decrease in brightness that corresponds with the refresh cycle of the display. It's very different from pulse width modulation flicker (PWM) on TVs with LED backlights. "

Samsung QN900B PWM . . LG C2 VRR backlight . . S95B OLED backlight

- Loss of fine details in some content:
"tone mapping is a bit off with highly saturated colors, causing a loss of fine details. You won't notice this with most content, but the Rec. 2020 color space is gaining in popularity, especially in animated films and some nature documentaries."


-Local Dimming even worse in Game Mode. More blooming, slow transitions visible.
"Unfortunately, like most Samsung TVs, the local dimming feature performs worse overall in 'Game' Mode. The overall performance is pretty similar, but the TV seems to be spreading highlights out over a greater number of zones, so there's a bit more noticeable blooming. The processing is also slightly slower, so zone transitions are more noticeable. However, it's mainly due to the increased blooming. On the other hand, shadow details are a bit better, and there's less black crush overall."



- Directions,... err.. screen surface, unclear:
"Unfortunately, the 'Ultra Viewing Angle' layer causes bright lights to create a rainbow smear across the screen, which can be distracting even if the lights aren't directly opposite the TV, including overhead lights." - also lifted blacks and compromised detail, lack of as saturated of a look, etc. from any activated by ambient lighting matte type AG surface abrasion

- BGR (OLED is pentile or WRGB though)


==============================================

Between all of those tradeoffs and those I posted on the ucx/ucg type screens from the hdtvtest screencaps and video I replied with . . .

They all have tradeoffs, oled and FALD and even between different makes and models of oled and falds. After per pixel emissive I couldn't go back to large zone lighting Tetris brickwork personally but I can see why people take those tradeoffs for the other gains. If there were no oleds I'd have more or less "no other choice" but I do have the choice. VR will go all per pixel emissive soon with bright mico-oled so will be per pixel from then on through microLED era. . but I'll have to wait years to get a consumer priced 42" - 55" microLED room sized screen. Then again, time flies. 3 years isn't that big deal of wait to me now with a good monitor at hand but another 5+ from now is a good wait if that long. Per pixel emissive is worth the tradeoffs I get now, and worth the wait and looking forward to microLED later. I'll still look at FALDs if their lighting resolution increases by a lot someday before that though, depending on what advances oled comes up with in that timeframe, or some kind of other tech leaps across the board.
 
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AwesomeOwl said:
You use displays, yes? You can't even see real life when you look at a display. You can't even see real life at all. I don't even use displays. I am on a completely different plane of existence than you. I'm using text to speech software so I don't have to waste my life looking at low brightness displays like you do. As I am dictating this post I am looking directly at the sun which is far brighter than whatever garbage display you're using could ever dream of being, and it's even slightly overcast.
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OLED users must miss that billion nits sun at the noon lol.
 
kramnelis said:
OLED users must miss that billion nits sun at the noon lol.
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I hope whatever you said makes sense to someone out there. Unfortunately you have had permanent damage from looking at low brightness displays, so you can't even see real life.
 
elvn said:
It's all tradeoffs. Per pixel emissive is the future just as much as HDR is. - - Per pixel emissive is here - - with tradeoffs just like brighter HDR is here with FALD's stop-gap solution tradeoffs. They will both fail good brightness and blooming, uniformity, variance tests. Ad nauseam: pick your poison.
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OLED is the bigger trade off. It can hardly get any brighter while the flickering is never fixed. HDR looks significantly worse on OLED with worse accuracy.

Before these OLED manufacturers make the jump to microLED, the FALD LCD already takes over the market. In the end it's the manufacturer who can make better miniLED make the jump the microLED.
 
AwesomeOwl said:
I hope whatever you said makes sense to someone out there. Unfortunately you have had permanent damage from looking at low brightness displays, so you can't even see real life.
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You are never someone out there . You are the OLED user with a dim 150nit monitor.
 
kramnelis said:
No. It's not an opinion.
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Whatever you say.

kramnelis said:
I said you don't understand HDR. You can adjust HDR brightness for SDR office work no problem.
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Presumptions. Trolling presumptions. Your attitude to everyone on here is dreadful.

kramnelis said:
You can wait for another decade for microLED to popularize. But I tell you it won't be made by OLED manufacturers. The current Apple microLED supplier is neither from LG nor Samsung.
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I can wait. What I have now is just fine but I'll be eager to migrate once it's viable.

kramnelis said:
You make me laugh every single time with your ignorance.
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Apparently I'm ignorant because I don't understand your awful response pattern. Hmm.
 
kramnelis said:
sRGB is lifeless. The color is limited no matter how accurate it is because it's a compromised intention nowhere close to reality. With expanded colorspace, even it is not the compromised intention it still has more color not less to deliver better images.
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sRGB is limited, but viewing it in wide gamut just shows wrong colors. You get an image with distorted colors which is a worse image, not a better image. Unfortunately, content is still overwhelmingly sRGB.
 
Bigmonitorguy said:
sRGB is limited, but viewing it in wide gamut just shows wrong colors. You get an image with distorted colors which is a worse image, not a better image. Unfortunately, content is still overwhelmingly sRGB.
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Tell me this when you play games with sRGB 80nits compared to wide gamut Adobe 400nits. You won't use sRGB mode. It simply looks at lot worse than Adobe.
 
AwesomeOwl said:
Funny, you sit in your dim enough room to sleep so you can pretend to see real life but you can't even see real life. Sad.
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Funny it's you hide in your cave with a 150nits OLED. My room is dim only means I can see better with HDR monitors. It doesn't mean I cannot go outside like you lol.
 
Senn said:
Whatever you say.

Presumptions. Trolling presumptions. Your attitude to everyone on here is dreadful.

I can wait. What I have now is just fine but I'll be eager to migrate once it's viable.

Apparently I'm ignorant because I don't understand your awful response pattern. Hmm.
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Because the response form yours doesn't need me a second to respond back.
 
kramnelis said:
Funny it's you hide in your cave with a 150nits OLED. My room is dim only means I can see better with HDR monitors. It doesn't mean I cannot go outside like you lol.
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Funny, you must have actual brain damage from looking at garbage displays. I am literally outside looking at the sun while you sit in your mom's basement pretending to see real life on a dim display.
 
AwesomeOwl said:
Funny, you must have actual brain damage from looking at garbage displays. I am literally outside looking at the sun while you sit in your mom's basement pretending to see real life on a dim display.
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Then you have no brain with an OLED.
 
AwesomeOwl said:
Funny, it seems like the damage has affected your ability to form coherent sentences as well. Truly unfortunate. You can neither communicate nor see real life. No wonder you are so mad all the time lol.
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Funny when someone is so mad he pretend he doesn't have OLED lol.
 
AwesomeOwl said:
Funny, especially coming from someone who has literally admitted to owning a garbage OLED panel, which I have never done, cause I don't own one. The brain damage is strong with this one!
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I don't pretend I don't have OLED lol. No doubt AW3423DW looks like trash to me.
 
kramnelis said:
I don't pretend I don't have OLED lol. No doubt AW3423DW looks like trash to me.
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How can I pretend that I don't have an OLED when I actually don't have an OLED? How broken is your brain? Are you in the psych ward right now? Why do you keep a display you don't like? Is this some form of self-harm?
 
kramnelis said:
Don't forget it's you keep showing your ignorance to amuse me.
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Uhh, yeah, ok. If I just pretend to agree with your fantasy maybe this thread can go back to some form of on-topic sensible discussion.

Unlikely, but worth a go.
 
AwesomeOwl said:
How can I pretend that I don't have an OLED when I actually don't have an OLED? How broken is your brain? Are you in the psych ward right now? Why do you keep a display you don't like? Is this some form of self-harm?
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I like how you stuck in cave and pretend you don't have a dim OLED lol. I keep AW3423DW as an constant reminder what a flickering dim OLED looks like whenever I need comparison.
 
kramnelis said:
I like how you stuck in cave and pretend you don't have a dim OLED lol. I keep AW3423DW as an constant reminder what a flickering dim OLED looks like whenever I need comparison.
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Wow, you keep one around to remind yourself just how much hatred you have for it? That's some impressive dedication to negativity.
 
Senn said:
Wow, you keep one around to remind yourself just how much hatred you have for it? That's some impressive dedication to negativity.
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That one is on my right side too. Though it is not on the desk like XL2546s or PG79QM, it's under the desk. Whenever I need the reminder I will pull it out.
 
In an attempt to move this thread away from... a certain buffoon... is there a good article on this brightness buffer method for burn-in circumvention and how it works on a technical level? I'd not heard of it before now and it seems like a clever method while burn-in is still an unavoidable aspect of the technology.
 
kramnelis said:
I like how you stuck in cave and pretend you don't have a dim OLED lol.
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Funny, but you are the one actually sitting in a cave with a dim OLED (amongst other dim displays). You have literally said so yourself. Meanwhile I am outside taking in the beautiful sights of REAL LIFE.
I would recommend that you talk to your doctor about your delusions.
kramnelis said:
I keep AW3423DW as an constant reminder what a flickering dim OLED looks like whenever I need comparison.
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I would recommend that you discuss this bizarre need of yours with your doctor as well.
 
Senn said:
Uhh, yeah, ok. If I just pretend to agree with your fantasy maybe this thread can go back to some form of on-topic sensible discussion.

Unlikely, but worth a go.
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Funny I don't have fantasy. Don't forget it's you want to trash talk instead without understanding anything lol.
 
AwesomeOwl said:
Funny, but you are the one actually sitting in a cave with a dim OLED (amongst other dim displays). You have literally said so yourself. Meanwhile I am outside taking in the beautiful sights of REAL LIFE.
I would recommend that you talk to your doctor about your delusions.

I would recommend that you discuss this bizarre need of yours with your doctor as well.
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Funny it's your delusion make you pretend you don't have OLED lol.
 
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