Why do pirates pirate? (Why do crows crow?)

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Lazyness is what I vote, interesting read though. PC game pirates have been around since the golden days of 5 1/4 floppy discs , I remember people making copies of those all the time and no one really thought badly of it. That was a different time though and most game developers really didn't mind gamers making copies as long as they didn't try to sell them. You also had to make hard copies in person and one at a time, now you can do them from anywhere in the world at anytime in any amount .. so its a bit scary yea.
 
this type of "research" always make me laugh...

Let's see here.

Games, that people like to play, are freely available online- to those who know how to obtain them. The theft of said games, by downloading, involves no physical trip to a store to rob, person to mug, or fund to embezzle. You simply log on to whatever protocol you may choose to use, and download the game.

In the 80s, early 90s, you would dub your friend's music tapes. Now you burn their CDs. Games? People have been pirating computer games since they have existed.

It's not going to change. Theft of intangible products just seems different to people. Is it different? Some say no. Some say yes. Most don't give a damn.
 
Godmachine said:
Lazyness is what I vote, interesting read though. PC game pirates have been around since the golden days of 5 1/4 floppy discs , I remember people making copies of those all the time and no one really thought badly of it. That was a different time though and most game developers really didn't mind gamers making copies as long as they didn't try to sell them. You also had to make hard copies in person and one at a time, now you can do them from anywhere in the world at anytime in any amount .. so its a bit scary yea.
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You mention an important point- the internet. It really does enable widespread distribution rather quickly with our connections nowadays, doesn't it?

Salavat23 said:
I guess they get a thrill out of a "crime" that they can get away with safely.
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lol maybe the first time they do it, when they are 12. After that, it's economics lol. Games for free.... or games you have to pay for.... hmmmm. "What's that you say? I don't have to even get up from my chair? Sign me up! Oh, this game sucks. Uninstall. Ooooo, now I'll download that one instead"

a few days later:

"Man, I have all the games. I'm bored. Maybe I should go outside!"

aaaand Piracy has saved another life.

lol

I start to wonder, sometimes, how far this will go. How much of our goods will become "digital?"

Law enforcement will have to change eventually. I guess it's changing already....
 
TOOL1075 said:
this type of "research" always make me laugh...

Let's see here.

Games, that people like to play, are freely available online- to those who know how to obtain them. The theft of said games, by downloading, involves no physical trip to a store to rob, person to mug, or fund to embezzle. You simply log on to whatever protocol you may choose to use, and download the game.

In the 80s, early 90s, you would dub your friend's music tapes. Now you burn their CDs. Games? People have been pirating computer games since they have existed.

It's not going to change. Theft of intangible products just seems different to people. Is it different? Some say no. Some say yes. Most don't give a damn.
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Well said.
 
Personally I don't buy as many games as I once did, but at the same time I don't pirate them either. Try the demo if one's available and wait several weeks for them to go on sale if word of mouth is good I'll make the purchase. I still have a bin full of new sealed games that I found on sale so maybe that is my motivation to limit future purchases unless it's a AAA title.

However, I have friends that refuse to buy any games but they are the same people that will download every game on release. They have jobs, and could afford to purchase games, but they choose not to. They can have an excuse not to, but I really believe it comes down to you can't beat free.

Being a purchaser, I have to admit I do get pissed that were required to jump through hoops as we purchased the game vs someone that pirated a copy can run the game with minimal restrictions. I believe the company has the right to protect itself, but when you start alienating real customers for the potential ones (which will never occur if there's a free method) you have a poor business plan.

It's unfoturnate as many developers are seeing console sales blow away the PC versions. So many developers are seeing the $$$ and moving resources towards consoles. In many games the PC is the afterthought and we get little to no support because of it.

I agree maybe part of it is I have been around since doom and duke nukem so most of the games don't hold my interest except for a rare few. As far as I remember there has always been shovelware on the PC, but at the same time I have seen Fry's grow from 1 all the way up to 4-5 aisles, only to be reduced back down to 1-2 with only a handfull of games that are not rehashes of prior versions or only have <5 hours of game play at most.

Also I noticed after purchase support dissapearing from the equation on many releases. I remember allot of the AAA titles I recall always including fix patches, added maps, or additions to the game several months after purchase. We always had zero day patches, but I noticed a trend if you don't get a patch within the first 4 weeks of release your SOL.

I think it all comes down to greed. Greed on the developer end results in greed on the consumer end. Put shit it, get shit out. The only difference is if you make a crappy product you loose real customers but sure you will have pirates that play the game. You can't count those people as revenue because a good percentage will never buy your game or any other game while they can get one for free. And people that would buy the game see no value in purchasing your product because of no interest, rehash, or poor support.
 
lol kindof have to laugh at this developer guy,

i'm sure people have been trying to figure out why people are criminals for a long times..



He'll probably come to find out the same thing every other developer has found out before him.

People pirate because they can,

any excuse or reasoning they give you is just a weak rationalization and is meant to help "ease" their conscience. Its much easier to say to yourself, "I stole that game because i wanted to try it before i bought it, even though i played it all the way through" , than "I am a thief who's too cheap to pay for it"..

In end i really believe it comes down to Honest vs Dishonest, its the type of person, not the excuse..

Do you correct the Cashier when they have given you more change than you deserve? or Do you look at is as a bonus?
 
Does it still count as piracy if you buy the game but download and play the cracked version anyway? If so, I can tell you exactly why I do it, but I suspect that's not the answer you're looking for.
 
I used to have to go to the capital buy pirated games when I lived in South America because A - I couldn't afford retail and B - there was no dsl in my town.

2 games retail cost as much as my rent for a month.
 
People just don't view it as a crime. Tell someone you just pirated 10 games and 10 thousand songs and they'll be perfectly cool with it. Tell that same person you just walked into a music store and stole a CD, and suddenly you just became a thief, and they lost all respect for you.
 
Lets take music for example. I have purchased just as much music as the average joe, shelves are exploding with CDs et etc. But I have a 10,000 song library. Now, the RIAA would have you believe that I have therefore defrauded the industry $10,000 dollars. But lets look at this seriously, if pirating stuff didn't exist, would a student like me have spent 10 Gs on music? Of course not, I would have just bought the same number of CDs that I buy today, and would have FORGONE owning the vast majority of my collection.

same idea with videogames but on a smaller scale.
 
mariokarter, no you wouldn't have spent $10k on music, but there's a good chance you would have bought a few more CDs for your collection.
 
Jynio said:
People just don't view it as a crime. Tell someone you just pirated 10 games and 10 thousand songs and they'll be perfectly cool with it. Tell that same person you just walked into a music store and stole a CD, and suddenly you just became a thief, and they lost all respect for you.
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Bingo. It's just something most people do. The majority of our population do not think it is a crime.
 
You dont see people making a big stink about sharing MP3's , why? because its gotten so popular amongst people that its not even looked upon as stealing anymore, its "hey can I get whats on your MP3 player"? "sure."

Give it 5 years and this will be the same for computer software, its already well beyond its infancy stages now.

Its going to be a shame when it happends , Im sure it will hurt and destroy alot of companies that make our games =/.
 
Did it ever START as a crime? Weren't P2P networks initially supposed to capitalize on the idea that the Internet allowed for sharing and people could share files? Keyword was "share". You're telling me you never share things with your friends? CD's, TV usage, computers, games, cars, houses, etc. That was the ideal utopia of the "sharing" through the Internet. Now, that this "sharing" has been branded as a criminal act, people are supposed to see it differently? That's like saying because the FDA, out of nowhere, despite at least centuries of existence and common usage, branded marijuana as an illegal and dangerous drug, people should immediately stop using it, no matter what.

Now I understand that there is a logic to the argument that there is a sense of theft with using a good/service that was not paid for. However, it's not exactly black and white now that the Internet has completely complicated the concept of theft and sharing. Therefore, it isn't easy for the general cyber populace to suddenly think of themselves as stealing rather than sharing.

Bottom line: Don't think people are stupid for thinking they aren't performing criminal acts. It's not quite an easily logical conclusion to come upon. Especially when one rationalization will earn you a free good/service while the other will force you to pay for it or not have it (And we must remember that humans are RATIONALIZERS, not RATIONAL). If we were all rational (that is to say, we follow what is the absolutely truth which is impossible because we don't know what's the absolute truth of anything), we would either be robots with access to all the information in the universe or God.
 
come on guys u very well know why people pirate especially now and i get bet a shit load of cash that most of u have started due to drm/install limits.

downloading games is not a criminal offence, hacking it and distributing it, is a criminal offence
 
We sometimes forget that people are law's source. It's where it all starts. If people in general don't believe of a certain behavior to be of any social negative impact, or to cause harm, then the more people tend to believe so, the more laws regarding that action/behavior are against the law themselves.

You can't really illegalize something your own society thinks of as ok. That in general. If it also is true, I mean the part that most people don't mind, is a bit subjective. Maybe a massive-scale research or smaller national scale researches would tell us.

Maybe not.

Oh well, latest prisonbreak episode just downloaded, I'll go watch. See ya...
 
Godmachine said:
Lazyness is what I vote, interesting read though. PC game pirates have been around since the golden days of 5 1/4 floppy discs , I remember people making copies of those all the time and no one really thought badly of it. That was a different time though and most game developers really didn't mind gamers making copies as long as they didn't try to sell them. You also had to make hard copies in person and one at a time, now you can do them from anywhere in the world at anytime in any amount .. so its a bit scary yea.
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Except you had to also photocopy the damn manual because installing the game would ask you for word seven, from paragraph 2, on page 9.

That was a big pain in the ass.


And I guess I have news for most people in this thread, but society does not think it's ok to download movies, songs, and games. Maybe a bunch of your friends with limited incomes, but not the majority of society by any means

Maybe you're answering the big question right there: most people who download do it because they think *other* people think it's no big deal.
 
Krenum said:
................

"hey can I get whats on your MP3 player"? "sure."

Give it 5 years and this will be the same for computer software, its already well beyond its infancy stages now.

...............
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I think we're way beyond that point already lol
 
mope54 said:
<snip>

Maybe you're answering the big question right there: most people who download do it because they think *other* people think it's no big deal.
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exactly. if it was just the people doing it that thought it wasn't a big deal... we probably wouldn't be having this conversation lol

society will dictate the acceptable threshold of "bad," right?
 
Actually, it's the other way around.

"Things that are perceived to be real, are real in their consequences."
In sociology, we call this the "Thomas Theorem"

When surveyed, people often believe that other people lie, cheat, or steal while they themselves do none of them.

In this case, it's not society that is defining "bad", but rather our perceptions of society's take of what constitutes bad behavior defines "bad".
The problem, of course, is that our perceptions are based on our own beliefs, not actually what others believe.
In sociology of law, we call this "ratification of error"
 
alrighty, let me rephrase.

our perceptions of society's opinion of our actions, dictate our acceptable threshold of "bad"

? it's way too early for this.... lol
 
mope54 said:
And I guess I have news for most people in this thread, but society does not think it's ok to download movies, songs, and games. Maybe a bunch of your friends with limited incomes, but not the majority of society by any means
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Actually I think your wrong, or at the very least the opinion of society is changing to one where the sharing of music, movies and software is not considered bad.

Recently I helped out a co-workers husband, retired Senior Circuit Judge(age: 70's) with setting up his new computer. He forgot to purchase the correct version of Office 2007, he purchased Student and Home and needed one of the ones that included Outlook. So he just had his son (age: 40's) burn him a copy of the office he wanted to have installed. This is a senior citizen who use to be a judge, he clearly doesn't fit the cliche of young college student who doesn't have a pot to piss in.

Society is changing man, the companies and everyone needs to realize that the Internet has had a huge impact on the way we share information. DRM does not prevent people access to software, music or movies. So why do companies continue to adopt policies that aren't working? These companies if they wish to survive need to workout new business models. Valve is making good steps with Steam, and Apple has done well with iTunes. These are both good examples of companies attempting to adapt and inovate ways to compete in the modern world.
 
Well I didn't say anything about "young college students"
It might be surprising, but people on social security fixed income don't have pots to piss in either :)

In any case, society has not changed so much that pirating is socially acceptable to mainstream society, however, what people might regard as "pirating" continues to be fluid.

It's not my personal opinion, surveys indicate that US citizens between the ages of 20s to 30s are more likely to believe that sharing music and movies among a few friends is generally acceptable. Older and younger than that group are more conflicted on the subject. For the younger generation, it usually breaks down to how the original content was acquired. If they bought it, some think giving some stuff to some friends to try out is ok, if their friends downloaded it most think it's not ok to accept a copy. Older generations generally regard it as stealing.

In any case, your premise is wrong.
DRM *does* prevent people accessing data during the critical launches of products.
Bioshock wasn't cracked for 13 days, Warhead has been reported to be cracked a few hours ago. That's nearly 72 hours after release.

This may seem like no big deal to you, but to a company that would have seen it's product released days before official release, it means the difference between staying in business or not. Your question shouldn't be too hard to answer with common sense: Why do business continue to do this? Because it's profitable. When it ceases to be profitable, DRM will cease to be utilized.
 
There are many ways for a person to rationalize pirating.

Money
Convenience
To make a statement (such as an anti-DRM protest)
For the sake of rebellion; stick it to "The Man"
The perception that it's free and they're doing no wrong
 
Alai said:
Did it ever START as a crime? Weren't P2P networks initially supposed to capitalize on the idea that the Internet allowed for sharing and people could share files? Keyword was "share". You're telling me you never share things with your friends? CD's, TV usage, computers, games, cars, houses, etc. That was the ideal utopia of the "sharing" through the Internet. Now, that this "sharing" has been branded as a criminal act, people are supposed to see it differently?
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I also dislike it when people think that Peer-to-Peer = piracy. It's not. It's a technology and probably necessary for when the good ol' client-server model doesn't work too well. Of course, technicalities will never stop the ignorant from parading around yelling "ban all P2P" despite the fact that doing so will cripple the Internet by denying many legit services.
 
Its simple economics. When something costs zero dollars, everyone wants it. When it costs $50 less people are willing to buy it.
 
Wondernerd said:
10 Golden Rules of Video Game Piracy
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Got to rule 2 and couldn't read any further because at that point the author has lost all credability as a writer.

Remember what we just said about you definitely buying the game? Well ignore everything to do with that, because you were never going to buy the game. This is a great way to justify your piracy, because it makes what you do 100% innocent. The basic reasoning for game theft is that you were never going to spend the money on it anyway, so technically the publisher of said game hasn't lost a sale. Logic prevails, and you now have a game that the publisher is perfectly fine with you owning.

It's a logic that has saved many a man from the chopping block. Mike Tyson, for example, was never going to ask Desiree Washington if he could have sex with her, so technically he didn't rape her. He was instantly welcomed back into society for his wanton act of innocence.
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That anology doesn't work at all.

The very point people try to make when they use this argument (and I use it myself) is that with piracy no sale is lost, no goods are stolen. Yes the perpetrator still benefits by getting access to the media but the person who created it suffers no loss.

I think I'd argue that somoene who is raped, suffered.

Author needs to L2Piracy, he suffers the same problem that a lot of people do that he cannot differentiate between software piracy and theft, which NOT the same thing, I wish I could make that more simple and clear but I can't, it's that simple.
 
Frostex said:
....with piracy no sale is lost, no goods are stolen. yes the perpertrater still benefits by getting access to the media but the person who made it suffers no loss.

.........
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<Borat mode on>

Whaaaaaaaaaaat???

<Borat mode off>

the "goods" paradigm is shifting...
 
Frostex said:
I dont follow.
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lol sorry.... pop-culture reference... perhaps you are not American, or are not aware of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borat:...or_Make_Benefit_Glorious_Nation_of_Kazakhstan

I apologize :D

My point: Although I have used that same argument in the past, I believe the definition of "goods" (as in "goods and services") is being constantly changed, tweaked, and updated. So much so, in fact, that the whole paradigm of "goods and services" being received- is shifting.
 
I get the reference, I've seen Borat, I just wasn't sure on the point you were making.

Software isn't "goods" thats precisely my point, they're NOT goods, "stealing" software is NOT theft.

A specific arrangement of magnetic fields on a hard drive cannot be "owned", thats why we have copyright laws specifically to defend software piracy because normal theft laws are not sufficient.

Search for the phrase "copyright is not theft" in google, keep the quotes for an exact phrase match, and read through a least a few of the 31,000 hits about this topic.

I dont think
the "goods" paradigm is shifting...
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I think people just dont understand the current system we have for software and its protection, which is why people fail to grasp why software piracy is nothing like stealing bread from a supermarket.
 
Yes, people pirate beucase they can. People try to justify it because they don't want to admit that they're no better than someone who shoplifts or burglarizes peoples homes.
 
Frostex:

I agree with you.

However, using the legal definition of "good" and the legal definition of "theft" is not what many people are doing when they discuss "software theft."

They either don't know the difference (as you pointed out) or, they are using the word "theft" in a more general, albeit knowingly incorrect, context.

edit: I mean, you can call it whatever you want. You are using "something" without paying the fee (price) to the proper party. In other words, the producer of that "something" is not receiving compensation.

In most cultures, that is considered "wrong." Right?
 
Why don't we just treat it like how people sell WoW gold or PL services. You're not stealing a tangible object, you're stealing a service, a person or a team's "time".

Yeah I know its weak I'm just brainstorming here.
 
mope54 said:
It's not my personal opinion, surveys indicate that US citizens between the ages of 20s to 30s are more likely to believe that sharing music and movies among a few friends is generally acceptable. Older and younger than that group are more conflicted on the subject. For the younger generation, it usually breaks down to how the original content was acquired. If they bought it, some think giving some stuff to some friends to try out is ok, if their friends downloaded it most think it's not ok to accept a copy. Older generations generally regard it as stealing.
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What people say, believe, and do are not always the same. I always have people coming to me asking to fix their home computers and the majority always attempt to get me to install things they haven't paid for. These are college business professors who have ran business and are successful people, ok some are morons, but the point is they run a wide age group of people over 30 years old who make plenty of money and can afford the software, who know the laws, who have a companies business perspective on these things, and they still do it or try to get others to do it for them.

I think many people have no problems with piracy and would do it if they could, they just think it is politically correct to say its bad and they would never do it.
 
TOOL1075 said:
I agree with you.

However, using the legal definition of "good" and the legal definition of "theft" is not what many people are doing when they discuss "software theft."
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Maybe not, I dunno, but thats exactly why we get these sorts of comments below.

GregP24 said:
Yes, people pirate beucase they can. People try to justify it because they don't want to admit that they're no better than someone who shoplifts or burglarizes peoples homes.
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Software piracy is not theft, it's pretty basic and easy to understand, the equivelent in real life if you want to compare it to burglary or shoplifting is like taking a ray gun that can duplicate things exactly, and duplicaiting the goods and then taking the copy, without depriving the owner of the original.

So no, it's not the same, theres basic, fundamental differences.
 
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