Why all the crying about the 7970?

C

CousinVin

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
393
It seems like all that I am seeing is people whining about the 7970 being too expensive. While i agree that it is, both options are at this point.

This is the part that bothers me, however. If Nvidia has released a card that performs almost identically to AMD's solution for this generation, and priced it the same or more, that would just be normal 'ol Nvidia. But now that AMD is the more expensive option for the first time in a while, everyone is crying the blues.

I am just a bit sick of seeing this. It is wildly hypocritical and nearly pointless. If there were only one thread about it, I could see it being fine. however they are scattered about the video card forum. Anyone else seeing this?

/rant.
 
AMD has a history of trying to be the performance/price leader. nVidia has a history of going bigger than the competition and charging for it. People are just hoping that AMD continues their strategy of lowering prices when their parts are no longer top dog, and hoping that might spark a price war.
 
People just like to cry and rant... that's what makes the internet so successful! Both cards could of come out being 4000% better then previous generation, and only $150 to buy and people would still rant and complain about it.
 
I can agree with most points regarding both cards being expensive, and needless whining, etc.

However, at least the 580 legit outperformed the 6970. It carried a stupid large premium for the relatively small performance boost.

But in this case, AMD's card is the pricier one, yet it does not legitimately and consistently outperform the 680. I wouldn't go as far as calling the 680 superior in all aspects, but the fact is the 680 outperforms the 7970 in a number of games (its main purpose, I'm excluding compute here) and comes at a lower price point.

I guess what I'm saying is if you price your product higher than the competition, it better be a clear winner, even if by a somewhat smaller margin.
 
It seems to me that more people are just complaining in hopes of their complaints being heard; the people screaming loudest do not own either a 680 or a 7970, and so IF the 7970 sees a drastic price drop then that means great news for them. For the people who already have one or the other, it will just mean that their expensive-as-hell card now has that much less resale value...
 
StricKeN said:
I can agree with most points regarding both cards being expensive, and needless whining, etc.

However, at least the 580 legit outperformed the 6970. It carried a stupid large premium for the relatively small performance boost.

But in this case, AMD's card is the pricier one, yet it does not legitimately and consistently outperform the 680. I wouldn't go as far as calling the 680 superior in all aspects, but the fact is the 680 outperforms the 7970 in a number of games (its main purpose, I'm excluding compute here) and comes at a lower price point.

I guess what I'm saying is if you price your product higher than the competition, it better be a clear winner, even if by a somewhat smaller margin.
Click to expand...

This pretty much sums it up. The 7970 did not move consumers higher on the price/performance curve from the previous generation (e.g. proportionally more performance for $). Right now, the 7970 costs $550US while the 680 costs $500US and I would argue is a faster gaming card from the reviews I have read, plus it introduces some useful NV features (3+1 displays on one card, TXAA, adaptive vsync etc).

People are mad that AMD didn't price the 7970 at $500 off the bat and drop it to 400-450 to "start a price war".
 
LordCalin said:
People just like to cry and rant... that's what makes the internet so successful! Both cards could of come out being 4000% better then previous generation, and only $150 to buy and people would still rant and complain about it.
Click to expand...

Having a negative opinion of something is much easier!
 
night_2004 said:
AMD has a history of trying to be the performance/price leader. nVidia has a history of going bigger than the competition and charging for it. People are just hoping that AMD continues their strategy of lowering prices when their parts are no longer top dog, and hoping that might spark a price war.
Click to expand...

i would say this is pretty fair assessment. but people don't really think about how the gpu division hardly made any profit in the old pricing system.
 
What's not to understand? AMD now has a product that is no longer the clear market leader (in many benchmarks anyway), yet the product still is priced as if it was.
 
AMD is free to set any price they like users are free to buy or not buy as they see fit, market forces might lead to a price adjustment, if vendors are unable to move units then prices will move.Complaining loudly about prices probably doesn't factor into AMD's thinking much, but if it makes you feel better keep complaining :).
 
It should be $459. For the people that bought it - at least at that price point owning the second fastest card wouldn't suck as much.
 
CousinVin said:
It seems like all that I am seeing is people whining about the 7970 being too expensive. While i agree that it is, both options are at this point.

This is the part that bothers me, however. If Nvidia has released a card that performs almost identically to AMD's solution for this generation, and priced it the same or more, that would just be normal 'ol Nvidia. But now that AMD is the more expensive option for the first time in a while, everyone is crying the blues.

I am just a bit sick of seeing this. It is wildly hypocritical and nearly pointless. If there were only one thread about it, I could see it being fine. however they are scattered about the video card forum. Anyone else seeing this?

/rant.
Click to expand...

I'm no hypocrite because I lambasted Nvidia for the price on the 5870 when it was released too.
 
KaptainKhaos said:
AMD is free to set any price they like users are free to buy or not buy as they see fit, market forces might lead to a price adjustment, if vendors are unable to move units then prices will move.Complaining loudly about prices probably doesn't factor into AMD's thinking much, but if it makes you feel better keep complaining :).
Click to expand...

Bad publicity can very much affect their sales to they better fucking listen to us.
 
I am wondering how much more performance the 7970 can gain through better driver support... and if the fact the price has not dropped is due in part to AMD knowing how much faster the 7970 truly can be..
 
KaptainKhaos said:
AMD is free to set any price they like users are free to buy or not buy as they see fit, market forces might lead to a price adjustment, if vendors are unable to move units then prices will move.Complaining loudly about prices probably doesn't factor into AMD's thinking much, but if it makes you feel better keep complaining :).
Click to expand...

Well...almost all 7970 models are still in stock at Newegg whereas all 680s are OOS. Makes me wonder how many 7970s are moving these days.

You can also take a look at FS/FT. When 7970s are going for around $460 shipped that is pretty telling.
 
Last edited:
In all honesty, why would they lower the price when they don't need to... it's selling just fine. One moment I can find some at distributors, the next day when I try to order it I get told it's sold out. This applies to everything 7850, 7870, 7950 and 7970.
 
To be honest I was quite suprised when I saw the 7970s in the FS/FT forum suddenly plummit to 450 or so. The 7970 is still a pretty beefy card.
 
renji1337 said:
iimo with better drivers i think the 7970 would win.
Click to expand...

Except the 680 achieved with one release driver set what the 7970 has not been able to do with a few sets and a couple months. Personally I wouldn't bank on the AMD driver team for anything, but you never know.
 
Sunnyd514 said:
To be honest I was quite suprised when I saw the 7970s in the FS/FT forum suddenly plummit to 450 or so. The 7970 is still a pretty beefy card.
Click to expand...

Pretty beefy? If all you're doing is playing games then get the 680, sure, but for those of us who actually do more with our time than run BF3 on max settings (GPGPU computations, for example), then the 7970 is still worth its money and thensome. Furthermore, the 680 and 7970 are about dead even when you consider that many of the benchmarks are still in the 7970's favor.

To be honest, if I was ONLY about gaming (or if I needed CUDA), I'd have bought a 680 hands down. But I'm not, and furthermore have been dominating everyone on the competitive FPS circuit with my 5770 (and for the most part, a 17" 4:3 LCD after selling my 22" ZR22w) and lesser cards. 120hz panels and 3x SLI/Trifire do not make a "pr0 g4m3r", and the only reason I'm getting into top tier GPUs right now instead of waiting longer is to take advantage of Bitcoin mining before it's too late...

Because seriously, there are a ton better things I can think of to spend $500 on. But in this case, Bitcoin mining may mean that I see a good amount of return on this investment; we'll see.
 
I don't know. Everyone knows you pay premium for the high end for like ever. And always around $500.

To me the middle is the problem. The 7800 series. The medicore $259 7850 presents no upgrade for my GTX 448 or a users 6950 which was $259. Dumb AMD did not give ppl where most cards are sold an upgrade option. You're supposed to get faster for same price as next generation hits not the same. At least the 7970 and GTX 680 meet that criteria it got faster for same price as GTX 580. Nothing in the middle range does. The 7870 should be $259 and 7850 $199.
 
I agree. People seem to be going nuts over a $50 premium markup. AMD is free to set their own price and you're free to give your business to the company you prefer.

This seem to be more of cheapskates trying to save $100 on a card with 1GB more RAM and about the same performance. The same people will turn around then tell you why buy a 680 when you can save $50 on a 7970 @ $450. Hypocrites.
 
There isn't any decent 28nm $300 range cards available that are worth upgrading to.
 
I have no desire to pay one cent more than absolutely necessary. Hence, I don't mind anyone complaining about high prices.
 
The 7970 is a very good card & in most of the benches the 680 is auto overclocking like it's designed to do. I read Kyles review & I believe the 7970 was at stock speed vs 680 stock speed with the auto OC feature. The 7970 can be easily OCed enough to meet or beat the 680. Plus you get the bonus of an extra 1Gb of vram for the extra $50. Now I'm not saying I'm thrilled with the $550 price but I'm sure AMD is. :D But a little price war would be nice that's why I'm still waiting. ;)
 
oldmanbal said:
bottom line is making money, not friends.
Click to expand...

But the bottom line should be making loyal customers...

The issue here is that many thought the 7970 was already overpriced at $550 and now that it is performing on par or lesser than the 680, which is $50 less, it just looks even more overpriced.

Dantrax said:
The 7970 is a very good card & in most of the benches the 680 is auto overclocking like it's designed to do.
Click to expand...

This has been discussed numerous times, but the 680 is not "auto overlclocking". The boost clock is not an overclock.
 
Whining is pointless.

If you want the 7970 @ $450, then DON'T BUY IT! You've tricked yourself into thinking you actually matter. By what I'm hearing, you'd think you were part of the company.

AMD is out to make a profit just like everyone else. You're out to save money just like everyone else. If you were actually a "loyal customer" and cared so deeply about AMD's well-being, you'd buy it regardless of the price. But you're not a 'loyal customer' any more than they're a 'loyal manufacturer.'

Great! A card that in some aspects provides a performance boost over the 7970 is $50 cheaper. Buy it then and stop crying over how AMD has chosen to set their prices.
 
akg102 said:
By what I'm hearing, you'd think you were part of the company
Click to expand...

I read all the posts and that didn't cross my mind. What exactly are you hearing that makes you think that? Or was that added in for extra drama? Whining about the whiners?
 
Last time I checked 3GB of video ram (AMD) costs more than 2GB (Nvidia). If you OC both cards they trade blows in every game, one card does better in 1 game then for the next game the other card is better. Obviously the people here making all those threads are stupid. In the end 3GB costs more than a 2GB card, and the performance averaged is the same on those cards.This site has alot of crybabys as well you post something someone can't handle like an adult, and they cry for mods to ban you here. I try and live with them by putting them on ignore, cuz the mods listen to the crybabys here.
 
RamonGTP said:
I read all the posts and that didn't cross my mind. What exactly are you hearing that makes you think that? Or was that added in for extra drama? Whining about the whiners?
Click to expand...

Most of the 'whiners' aren't in this thread. And maybe I'm a bit dramatic.......but can you think of a rational person that looks at the GPU landscape and instead of buying the "obviously superior" 680 for $50 less, they choose to whine about AMD not lowering their prices? Claiming to be a "loyal customer" but expecting AMD to take a huge hit in profit is a bit hypocritical. You're saving an extra $100.....now multiply that by thousands of times and that is what AMD loses in revenue.

The fact is, customers want to pay the absolute lowest price for a given product. Companies want the highest possible profit margin for any given venture. I don't understand why this is so difficult.
 
akg102 said:
Most of the 'whiners' aren't in this thread. And maybe I'm a bit dramatic.......but can you think of a rational person that looks at the GPU landscape and instead of buying the "obviously superior" 680 for $50 less, they choose to whine about AMD not lowering their prices? Claiming to be a "loyal customer" but expecting AMD to take a huge hit in profit is a bit hypocritical. You're saving an extra $100.....now multiply that by thousands of times and that is what AMD loses in revenue.

The fact is, customers want to pay the absolute lowest price for a given product. Companies want the highest possible profit margin for any given venture. I don't understand why this is so difficult.
Click to expand...

Well I do think people should express their opinions and that brand loyalty is kind of dumb. Ultimately the best way to express your displeasure with pricing is to vote with your wallet and buy something else.
 
akg102 said:
Whining is pointless.

If you want the 7970 @ $450, then DON'T BUY IT! You've tricked yourself into thinking you actually matter. By what I'm hearing, you'd think you were part of the company.

AMD is out to make a profit just like everyone else. You're out to save money just like everyone else. If you were actually a "loyal customer" and cared so deeply about AMD's well-being, you'd buy it regardless of the price. But you're not a 'loyal customer' any more than they're a 'loyal manufacturer.'

Great! A card that in some aspects provides a performance boost over the 7970 is $50 cheaper. Buy it then and stop crying over how AMD has chosen to set their prices.
Click to expand...

Whining about whiners, lol.
 
anyone following NVidia would know that this card is actually replacing the GTX 570, but since the performance is better (by around 30%) than the GTX 580 they decided to call it the GTX 680 and charge "80" price points for it. This card should be priced around $399 to start and Nvidia has tons of room to move the price down in the future.

As a consumer it sucks that we are overpaying for a card because the compeition is so bad that NVidia was allowed to jack up the price and still sell out!

As a company it was a very smart strategy, they knew it would beat a 7950 easily and pretty much match the 7970 overall for gaming, seeing what AMD was charging, why not place it in the middle and steal as many sales as they could produce cards! But they also knew they would have a tough time calling it a GTX 670 and charging $500 which is why they went with 680... Its already confirmed that in the summer/fall a bigger die will be coming out (size of 580 die) and my money is on it being called the GTX 685. The Big question is the price? Will it be $599, $649? will the GTX 680 drop when its released? And what will the dual GTX 680 card be priced at (GTX 690) $799, $849?

I am an Nvidia fan and have always bought their products but also loved when AMD made them stay honest, We NEED AMD to be competitive and if they are lower in performance we need them to blow away NVidia in price. If they started selling the 7950 at $349 that would kill tons of GTX 680 sales, a lot of people would want to buy 2 of those for $200 more than 1 GTX 680...
 
Aumakua said:
anyone following NVidia would know that this card is actually replacing the GTX 570, but since the performance is better (by around 30%) than the GTX 580 they decided to call it the GTX 680 and charge "80" price points for it. This card should be priced around $399 to start and Nvidia has tons of room to move the price down in the future.

As a consumer it sucks that we are overpaying for a card because the compeition is so bad that NVidia was allowed to jack up the price and still sell out!

As a company it was a very smart strategy, they knew it would beat a 7950 easily and pretty much match the 7970 overall for gaming, seeing what AMD was charging, why not place it in the middle and steal as many sales as they could produce cards! But they also knew they would have a tough time calling it a GTX 670 and charging $500 which is why they went with 680... Its already confirmed that in the summer/fall a bigger die will be coming out (size of 580 die) and my money is on it being called the GTX 685. The Big question is the price? Will it be $599, $649? will the GTX 680 drop when its released? And what will the dual GTX 680 card be priced at (GTX 690) $799, $849?

I am an Nvidia fan and have always bought their products but also loved when AMD made them stay honest, We NEED AMD to be competitive and if they are lower in performance we need them to blow away NVidia in price. If they started selling the 7950 at $349 that would kill tons of GTX 680 sales, a lot of people would want to buy 2 of those for $200 more than 1 GTX 680...
Click to expand...

Can the "would have been" 680 be released today? The only reason I ask, is because releasing a card that is +50% better than a 7970 for the same price would absolutely destroy AMD and any competition NVidia would have. Were they being nice when they decided to just 'steal' some sales from AMD instead of crushing them completely?
 
akg102 said:
Can the "would have been" 680 be released today? The only reason I ask, is because releasing a card that is +50% better than a 7970 for the same price would absolutely destroy AMD and any competition NVidia would have. Were they being nice when they decided to just 'steal' some sales from AMD instead of crushing them completely?
Click to expand...

Doubtful. I don't think GK110 is ready yet. Otherwise, why wouldn't nVidia just release it and charge $650 or something?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top