WHS changed my thinking

KevinG

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
348
So, after about 3 weeks of having WHS running in my house, I've come to the conclusion that it has drastically changed the way I think about storage.

When I built my quad rig last summer I put 4 500 gig drives in it. Three of them were in a RAID, with a 3x60 (120 gig) RAID 0 stripe for the OS (for speed), and the rest of the space as a RAID 5 (redundancy). The fourth drive was not in the RAID, it was there solely to store the Acronis backups that ran on a schedule. The RAID 0 stripe was backed up weekly (since losing a single drive of the 3 meant the whole machine wasn't bootable), and the RAID 5 was backed up monthly.

This computer was replacing another as my primary rig, but the one it was replacing is set up similarly, and is still in use by my kids. Two 300 gig drives in a RAID 1 (redundant) stripe, with another 300 gig to catch the monthly Acronis backups.

Lastly, there is the HTPC, which has some random smattering of 200, 250, and 300 gig drives. No RAID, no backup...just storage for ripped DVDs.

After one week of WHS, I took the fourth 500 gig out of my primary machine (the quad), and put it in the server. No need for acronis backups anymore, so might as well add the space to the pool. Yesterday, I broke the RAID entirely, created a 120 gig partition on one 500 gig drive, and the rest of the space as a second partition. I restored the primary partition from the server using the restore CD (I wish it let you restore to smaller sized partitions if the space wasn't required...) and put all of the files back on the rest of the space by using the WHS console from a backup that I had just done.

This left me with 2 500 gig drives to throw into the storage pool.

I'm considering doing the same with the older machine to reclaim some 300 gig drives (2 of them), but I think I'm getting into diminishing returns with drives that small. I may just do it for power savings! The HTPC may end up with a single 200 gig drive for the OS, and all of the ripped DVDs on the WHS.

Anyway, I've finally come up with 3 categories of files:
1) Files which absolutely must be backed up, but are unlikely to change much over time (think photos) - These end up on the server, in a share with duplication "on."
2) Files which should be backed up, and are subject to constant changes. (think source code, saves for games) - These end up on the client machines.
3) Files which do not require backup (DVD rips, downloads) - These end up on the server, in a share with duplication "off."

The important thing to recognize is the difference between #1 and #2. Sure, it's easy to throw everything on the server, but you loose one very important feature, and that is versioning. The fact that the backups of the client PCs allow you to go back to arbitrary points in time is important. Files on the server itself are backed up, yes, but only the latest version is ever available.

So, where am I now? I think I'm much better off. The only thing that I'm really lacking is the redundancy of storage for files in category 3. Although the HTPC didn't have it, the other 2 machines allowed me to store huge files in special directories which Acronis was told to ignore. Sure, they weren't being "backed up", but in both cases they were protected (either by RAID 1, or RAID 5). I may get to a point where I have so much storage on the WHS that I'll just turn on duplication for these files as well, but I wish there was support for something like RAID 5 which wouldn't loose 100% of the storage space for these files...

Anyway, that's my rambling for now.
-Kevin
 
You have been assimilated. :)

WHS has completely changed how I manage my data as well, for similar reasons. With 1 TB drives easy to find for right at $100, I've completely changed where I keep information stored.

I've gone from having a 400 GB drive, and a 500 GB drive in my primary workstation to just one 300 GB velociraptor. the old larger drives that used to be in my workstation are now the recording drives in my media PCs replacing the 300's I used to use.

I bought an eSATA enclosure that holds 4 drives. I have a cheap tri core AMD box that hoses all my servers as virutals including the WHS. 3 of the 1 TB drives are used by my WHS VM, the other drive is used by Windows 2008 to backup the internal drive which has my other server VMS, and a virtual disk that holds the backup of the WHS OS partition.

I can take just the external enclosure with the 4 1 TB drives and rebuild my laptop, two media pcs, my workstation, my wife's Vista install running under parallels on her Mackbook Pro, the Windows 2008 server, and if necessary the WHS itself, starting with just one Windows 2008 member server install and connecting up the external storage array.

I'm going to take the drives freed up from my media PCs, and take an old AMD Sempron 3400+ machine and make a WHS for my parents to use. They are about to move out into the sticks (where, amazingly they will have more selection of high speed ISPs, including some really reasonably priced 2 way LOS microwave service, than I do in the suburbs of Dallas Texas, 6 blocks over and I could have sweet sweet FIOS, but I have TWC and I'm too far from the CO for DSL, my parents 10 minutes away in the same city in a part of town built in the late 50's have fiber into the home right now). It will be my remote support gateway as well.
 
Agree 100%. I built a linux software raid 5 2 years ago, command line only access through putty. Everything was put on the raid array, including acronis images of each client PC which happened weekly.
on the array included all photos, music, downloads, -- everything medium-long term

2 weeks ago I moved to WHS, and it was the best computer decision I have made in years.

4x 320gig drives in the pool(scavanged from old raid 5 array)
duplication of vital data - Photos, Music that i do not have hard copies of, documents
non duplication of re-ripable dvds, and TV shows
daily incremental bakcups of all PCs in the house, that use a crap ton less storage than previous acronis images.

annnnd I can run my windows only programs as services instead of something in linux which did not really have the abilities I needed(think rss download +utorrent).

Fantastic product, worth buying 100%
 
...I can take just the external enclosure with the 4 1 TB drives and rebuild my laptop, two media pcs, my workstation, my wife's Vista install running under parallels on her Mackbook Pro, the Windows 2008 server, and if necessary the WHS itself, starting with just one Windows 2008 member server install and connecting up the external storage array.

how does the mac work with WHS? i'm getting ready to pick up a macbook pro myself and wasn't sure how well the two would play together.
 
I don't think that's necessarily a WHS thing - its home servers in general.

I made a similar move a while back too. Made a low power 24x7 PC to handle all network services and file serving and tossed in about 2TB of storage.

Now every PC I build or rebuild comes with just one 160GB to 250GB hard drive for OS/apps. I don't put in optical drives - one USB based DVD R/RW goes around to computers that need an OS reinstall or disc burn. Everything else is accessed as images over the network. Whenever I buy media the first thing I do is rip it and I never see the disc again :p

Recently I put on a Windows XP VM on the server, opened it up for remote desktop and started keeping all of my common apps and frequently visited websites open on it. Whenever I get on any client PC I just remote in and have everything already there.
 
Everything else is accessed as images over the network. Whenever I buy media the first thing I do is rip it and I never see the disc again :p

You rip the software images? I just copy the entire CD to a directory for that software, then drop in a text file to hold the CD keys etc. I have been doing that for years. It works great for everything except the OS disks which of course can't install over a network, but all other software has been able to. And it is also MUCH faster than installing from a CD. I have to admit that I don't do gaming so if there is some image "key" (buried in the CD/DVD) I wouldn't see that problem.
 
You rip the software images? I just copy the entire CD to a directory for that software, then drop in a text file to hold the CD keys etc. I have been doing that for years. It works great for everything except the OS disks which of course can't install over a network, but all other software has been able to. And it is also MUCH faster than installing from a CD. I have to admit that I don't do gaming so if there is some image "key" (buried in the CD/DVD) I wouldn't see that problem.

A lot of games require it, and its always nice to have an image that you can burn if necessary. Installing from images is pretty much as fast as moving the files over from a folder.

Personally, WHS sounds great for home users who want a simple solution, but I don't see how its any better than a typical fileserver. I have an old machine running FreeNAS. I get good transfer speeds and it shows up just like any other shared folders would over the network. Its running RAID 5 and I have a full backup at my parents house (I copy everything over to my Dad's server and everything from his to mine every few months), and I keep anything absolutely vital on an external drive as well. Works fine for me.
 
Personally, WHS sounds great for home users who want a simple solution, but I don't see how its any better than a typical fileserver.

Because its more than a "typical file server", its more than just for home users which should be pretty evident by some of the people here raving about it and tearing sown their raid arrays and switching to WHS, they are by no means your average home user.
 
WHS is just phenomenal. It is what I recommend to my home clients now.
 
Because its more than a "typical file server", its more than just for home users which should be pretty evident by some of the people here raving about it and tearing sown their raid arrays and switching to WHS, they are by no means your average home user.

Where did I say "average" home users. ;)

No need to get upset. I'm just saying I'm perfectly fine with my FreeNAS box. WHS is cool and the features like the ability to backup your client machines are great for a lot of users, but its not something I would use.

Basically, WHS is cool, but it didn't change the way I thought about storage.
 
Hehe Leezad just side step the "simple" word I seen thrown around about WHS. FreeNas is just as simple for to use also.. Well I would say for us that are tech savy. WHS is just a nice product that just works. Hecks it's Server 2003 anyway.
 
Basically, WHS is cool, but it didn't change the way I thought about storage.

This is fair. I probably would have had a drastic "re-think" about storage as soon as I accepted a file-server into my home environment, whether it was WHS, FreeNas, or anything else. It really boils down to the fact that I used to think that I needed a lot of local storage on my computers and I should be concerned with uptime and backups...now I'm realizing that I really DON'T want a lot of local storage and uptime and backup can be solved without even thinking about it (using WHS)...All of that storage belongs on the server, not the clients.

That being said, I likely would never have moved to a file-server if it wasn't WHS. The simplicity is incredibly attractive.

-Kevin
 
I don't think that's necessarily a WHS thing - its home servers in general.

This is absolutely right. I've heard good things about WHS, and I'm sure it's a well designed product, but I'm a *nix guy, so it would do me little good. However, looking at Wikipedia's page on WHS, my server does everything listed under "Features" except health monitoring. It's completely changed the way I use my computers at home. Now, configuring unix servers and writing your own software and scripts is certainly not for the "average" computer user, but getting it all working took a saturday afternoon and it's worked flawlessly ever since.

Bottom line is get a home server. Buy WHS or do it yourself, whatever sounds most fun to you.
 
how does the mac work with WHS? i'm getting ready to pick up a macbook pro myself and wasn't sure how well the two would play together.

WHS won't backup your mac for you but you can access the files on your network just fine.

I hear you can use different little apps to enable time machine on your macbook to backup to it as if it were time capsule but I haven't tried this. Look up an app called time tamer. It's one such app i've heard of.
 
I'm still testing out a 120-day trial of WHS, but so far I'd have to say I am hooked. Even more important is that my wife is hooked also.

I've been running a file server at home for some time but only got into RAID about a year ago (after loosing the hard drive with all our pictures and not having a backup within the last 3 months :rolleyes: ).

Besides the file duplication (which would work better for me since I really don't need RAID5 for my ripped DVDs, TV shows, and software), the thing that made the wife really happy was the web-sharing feature.

Now I can set up a user account and she can let her parents view and download pictures of their granddaughter without her having to hassle with uploading pictures to Photoworks, Shutterfly, Flicker, etc. We can also access our documents via the web from anywhere we have access to the Internet.

Being able to mix and match drives (something I can't do with my RAID controller) is also really nice, considering I have 5 250 GB drives laying around gathering dust, 3 500 GB drives on the RAID card, a spare 500 GB drive, 3 160 GB drives, and probably a few I've forgotten about. I'm drooling over the Norco 4020 case if I can talk the wife into it....

Yeah, I'm sure this can all be done somehow with a standard Server 2003 install (or Linux), but honestly I don't have the time or patience to set all of it up. WHS does it for me, I add some accounts, route the correct ports in my router, and I'm done.

We've already decided to purchase the product once the trial runs out, Now I just have to figure out if I am going to blow out my current server or build a new one. I'm thinking new if I can scrounge up the funds :p
 
Does anyone have windows home server trial ripped to something so that I could upload the iso to try it out aswell ? I have sent a request to microsoft for the trial kit of their WHS a couple of weeks ago, but nothing has showed up. I think my request was in october 22 08.
 
WHS won't backup your mac for you but you can access the files on your network just fine.

I hear you can use different little apps to enable time machine on your macbook to backup to it as if it were time capsule but I haven't tried this. Look up an app called time tamer. It's one such app i've heard of.

Yea you can use time machine to backup your mac and it will store the image on WHS...havent done it since I only run OSX86 and im usually in Vista.
 
I'm just saying I'm perfectly fine with my FreeNAS box.

Word

WHS is cool and the features like the ability to backup your client machines are great for a lot of users, but its not something I would use..

You can back up your computer to a FreeNAS CIFS share using NTBACKUP very easily, only takes a few minutes to set up. Or any SMB/CIFS share for that matter. Automated backups and dissimilar disk mirroring can't be the only things WHS has going for it? If so what's the big deal?
 
Word



You can back up your computer to a FreeNAS CIFS share using NTBACKUP very easily, only takes a few minutes to set up. Or any SMB/CIFS share for that matter. Automated backups and dissimilar disk mirroring can't be the only things WHS has going for it? If so what's the big deal?

Can also be used for but not limited to

Active Directory
Terminal Services Gateway (automatically configured on install)
Web Server(automatically configured on install)
DHCP
SQL Server
O yea and just about anything that Server 2003 does, and Anything that you can install on server 2003 such as VMware, Orb, Mymovies, MediaCenter2005, SageTV, so its not really limited to just filesharing, and automated computer backups....it can do much more.

The thing that makes WHS so great is that automated backups and filesharing is made st00pid simple that even my grandma could prolly set it up.
 
Does anyone have windows home server trial ripped to something so that I could upload the iso to try it out aswell ? I have sent a request to microsoft for the trial kit of their WHS a couple of weeks ago, but nothing has showed up. I think my request was in october 22 08.

I requested my copy in August 22, 2008. Never received it. So I just built a Linux box instead.
 
I'm on my second week with WHS and I'm not sure what to think.

The origional install went fine and worked pretty well for @ 3 days.

File corruption started @ day 4 and continued to the point that I thought I had a failing OS drive.

After a few reinstall attempts and other major problems, I found zeroing all the HDs allowed for a viable complete reinstall.

Imagine my suprise when I was prompted to call to activate because my product key had been used too many times and was invalid......on a trial product. WTF? :confused:

I was on the phone with MS for 1.5 hrs and 6 different CS reps and never did get another key! It got really bad at the end of the MS call when one of the CS agents got confused, determined I had an invalid key because someone at the manfg. plant was pirating keys and had me on a 3-way call with internal security to find the source of the illegal keys. :eek:

It's definately been a learning experience! :D
 
I'm on my second week with WHS and I'm not sure what to think.

The origional install went fine and worked pretty well for @ 3 days.

File corruption started @ day 4 and continued to the point that I thought I had a failing OS drive.

After a few reinstall attempts and other major problems, I found zeroing all the HDs allowed for a viable complete reinstall.

Imagine my suprise when I was prompted to call to activate because my product key had been used too many times and was invalid......on a trial product. WTF? :confused:

I was on the phone with MS for 1.5 hrs and 6 different CS reps and never did get another key! It got really bad at the end of the MS call when one of the CS agents got confused, determined I had an invalid key because someone at the manfg. plant was pirating keys and had me on a 3-way call with internal security to find the source of the illegal keys. :eek:

It's definately been a learning experience! :D

Did you get the updates after you installed it? There used to be a file corruption issue but that was fixed long ago with PP1.

As far as activation, I would have downloaded a crack and been done with it rather than sit on the phone.
 
Did you get the updates after you installed it? There used to be a file corruption issue but that was fixed long ago with PP1.

My discs came with PP1.

It's kinda strange though, last night after installing all the updates, it wanted me to reinstall the PP1 package.

WHS is definately a work in progress.
 
@ Old Hippie

Im suprised you had file corruption? I havent seen that since PP1 and even pre-PP1 it was only when I was directly editing files stored on the shares: such as my Outlook files and such.

As for your problems I would get a new CD altogher, because if there was issue at the MFG plant I wouldnt trust that image.
 
Im suprised you had file corruption?

It was always 10-15 different music files every day. I'd go in, delete the corrupted files, replace them with files from my other back-up and go my merry way. The next day, I'd get another batch.

My server started wanting to do check disk at every reboot and I complied but it didn't do any good. After running the manfgs utilities on all the drives, I discovered they were all 100% good, but nothing short of writing zeros to all the drives would allow for a successful install.

On a positive note, I did get the OS to install on a 74GB Raptor ( thanks for that hint), but only if it was the only drive in the pool. If any other drives were connected at install, it would go to the largest drive.....no questions asked.

Naturally, the boot times are significantly reduced.

I've always learned just as much or more from my screw-ups as my successes, and in this case, I've learned a lot.....a whole lot! :D
 
Quoting myself just feels wrong...Can I go blind from doing that? ;)

The important thing to recognize is the difference between #1 and #2. Sure, it's easy to throw everything on the server, but you loose one very important feature, and that is versioning. The fact that the backups of the client PCs allow you to go back to arbitrary points in time is important. Files on the server itself are backed up, yes, but only the latest version is ever available.

Turns out that this is just plain wrong... I just stumbled on the fact that I can right click on a file that is on the server's shares, choose properties, and there is a tab for "Previous Versions"...Sure enough, it works perfectly. How? I don't know. This makes me think that just about everything can live on the server though...

Ninja Edit: Looks like this is Volume Shadow Copies at work:
http://www.windowsnetworking.com/ar...s-Server-2003-Volume-Shadow-Copy-Service.html


So, where am I now? I think I'm much better off. The only thing that I'm really lacking is the redundancy of storage for files in category 3. ...I wish there was support for something like RAID 5 which wouldn't loose 100% of the storage space for these files...

It seems life FlexRAID may be the answer for this one... I'll look into it when I get the time.

-Kevin
 
It seems life FlexRAID may be the answer for this one... I'll look into it when I get the time.

I use a WHS that I built and ignoring the storage area for a moment the rest of the features are compelling in my situation. I like the automatic client backups and the way it wakes my PC from standby in the night to run it. My main PC's drive died two weeks ago in a storm and I had another drive up and back to my desktop in 20 minutes. I own a Xbox 360 and I use the media sharing functions to stream videos and music. I like the web access to my shared files, the hosted RDP is useful in a pinch, volume shadow service has saved me a few times when deleting the wrong shared files. My main PC has local copies of my documents and iTunes library that get synced with the shares on the WHS using SyncToy. SyncToy runs as a scheduled task whenever my PC is idle. I also use the WHS for uTorrent+webUI (running as a service) and as a standard web server. The fact that the underlying OS is Server 2003 is very versatile.

I use an Areca ARC-1220 controller in my WHS. When WHS was first released I ordered the evaluation and started using it on some old hardware I had laying around. I liked the "auto-balancing" of the files across multiple drives at first, but I was hit with the corruption bug and didn't like the performance of the box when it was balancing storage. I also like to be able to look at the directory structure and know where my files are.

I decided that RAID 5 with its performance qualities and the fact that every file on the server would survive a drive loss was more in line with what I desired. I used three 500GB drives in one large volume/RAIDset at first. When installing WHS, setup just saw my drives as a single 1TB drive and did its 20/980GB C:/D: split as usual. A benefit of this is that WHS never has to balance the storage because the OS thinks there is one drive. I wanted more space so I added another 500GB drive to the system, added it to the RAIDset and expanded the volume (all while online thanks to the RAID card). When the RAID card was done growing the volume, I just logged on to the WHS and ran 'diskpart' to make the data/D: partition grab the new free space at the end of the volume. I'm getting ready to purchase two more 500GB drive to expand the storage space further.

I like the balance between just letting WHS take care of things and the more powerful but more work to setup and manage DIY methods.

~dylan
 
This is absolutely right. I've heard good things about WHS, and I'm sure it's a well designed product, but I'm a *nix guy, so it would do me little good.
Agree as well. OpenSolaris is pretty easy to set up, does file sharing over CIFS or NFS, and does my DNS, DHCP, torrents, and anything else I can think of.
Bottom line is get a home server. Buy WHS or do it yourself, whatever sounds most fun to you.
Yep. WHS is convenient if you just want it to work, but I like the challenge and the flexibility of building it myself out of pieces.

Does anyone else do shared home directories with their home server box? Except for Firefox profiles (which is a really annoying limitation) I share everything profile-related among the computers at home.
 
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