When will we embrace UT3?

The demo they released may have been the single biggest mistake. They would have sold twice as many copies at launch had they not cut their own throat with that demo. Bugs everywhere, crashed 9 times out of every 10 i tried to launch it. Boring, repetitive, rehashed FPS. They did such an incredible job with the hype all the way up, then destroyed themselves with that demo.
 
honestly think it's because of being multiplayer only. True there are multiplayer only games that sell well, but then you factor that in as a sale stolen because people are playing only that game. A game does better if it has both. Which is kind of funny because I never buy a multiplayer only games. UT3 is my first and wouldn't you know it there are hardly anyone playing it heh.

Oh well it was cheap and came with UT anthology. I like it for a quick spin here and there.
 
xerus` said:
Argh, holy shit man, I can't believe half the stuff in your post. UT2k4 = UT3? You must've not played UT2k4 at all if you sincerely believe that.

The entire style of gameplay from UT2k4 and UT3 is completely different. UT2k4 is completely hitscan dominant with hide and seek play heavily promoted with floaty physics involving moves like dodge jumping across maps, and the the big factor: the shield gun.

You simply cannot play UT3 and UT2k4 the same way and expect the same results. Sure, if you're a casual player who just plays UT and enjoys spamming around with the flak cannon, I guess the game doesnt change that much for you, but for a crazy UT fan that analyzes the game down to the core there are many key differences.

There's more of an emphasis on projectile weapons in UT3 just by looking at the weapon damage. A rocket can instant kill a target that just spawns, which is absolutely crazy if you ask me. It UT2k4, they tend to do anywhere from 82 to 95 damage (dont quote me on that, I'm running off of very little sleep on this post.)

Also, positive feedback loops that created incredible unbalances in UT2k4 are for the most part eliminated from UT3. Once a team established control of major power ups like the 100a and the amp, they basically can start carrying away in the game at an incredible speed that just keeps getting faster and faster because of adrenaline. If you kill a lot, you're rewarded with adren, and you eventually just go for the booster which gives you free health regen until you're fully stacked, and you keep killing. This kind of gameplay makes the first 5 minutes of a match the most important, because once you get that pace set up with the infinite recurring positive feedback loops you dont really have to worry about losing at that point.

The scaling is also a pretty big factor in the gameplay. Maps are now more clustered rather than huge open spaces when compared to the size of your character model, which seems to be a huge fat guy stuffed into armor. Bigger targets, more close quarters gameplay, also makes for a less hitscan dominated game state. Of course hitscan will always be useful though, I mean nothing is going to beat a solid aim with the sniper rifle from any distance.

Also weapon switch speed which is severely hindered in UT3 in my opinion makes for quicker battles that are decided by which weapon you have out at the time you encounter an opponent. In UT2k4, a good player can utilize a pretty wide range of weapons in a duel, switching back and forth for the best situation, but in UT3 its so crippled that in most cases if you have your rockets out, you're stuck with rockets unless you want to wait 2 or 3 seconds for the shock rifle to switch in.

Yes, there are always the same weapons, and theres always dodging and what not, and theres always DM TDM and CTF, but the core game mechanics from UT99, UT2k*, and UT3 have a lot of key differences that make them very different. I mean, if they were all the same game then there wouldn't be a huge split in the community between UT99 players and UT2k4 players.

Internet!
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So your argument is that the every so slight changes in weapon damage and changing rate makes for an entirely new game experience?

Maybe if they actually included new weapons than you would have a better case.

Have you played any of the Warefare maps? They are huge wide open maps. I mean they have to be or how else would vehicles work properly? Even if I add 30 bots it never feels like a cluster fuck.

Oh and I've never killed a newly spawned bot with just one rocket.
 
TheGooch69 said:
So your argument is that the every so slight changes in weapon damage and changing rate makes for an entirely new game experience?

Maybe if they actually included new weapons than you would have a better case.

Have you played any of the Warefare maps? They are huge wide open maps. I mean they have to be or how else would vehicles work properly? Even if I add 30 bots it never feels like a cluster fuck.

Oh and I've never killed a newly spawned bot with just one rocket.
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Weapon damage changed, player scale changed, player movement changed, power ups changed, adrenaline eliminated, and weapon switch time changed makes for a different game experience.
 
xerus` said:
Weapon damage changed, player scale changed, player movement changed, power ups changed, adrenaline eliminated, and weapon switch time changed makes for a different game experience.
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I don't agree at all. I think the same game modes, same type of maps, same weapons, same mechanics, same method of execution, and same style made for the same exact game experience.

However we won't agree on anything so lets just leave it at that. Good argument man, you made some good points that I never noticed.
 
jellyhead said:
How's that going for you? I've read a lot of positive reviews for that version - would be nice to get some feedback from an [H] brother :)
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It's basically like playing on the PC except now I have good framerates (cause my PC has a mediocre CPU while having a rather good GPU). I also finally have a use for my wireless kb/mouse combo other than looking sleek. The load time and framerate is surprisingly good. It only required a few hundred MB to install (I think 270?), yet it had far less load time and far better framerate than Heavenly Sword, which took over 2100MB to install. I haven't seen any slowdown, but I probably haven't pushed the limits of gameplay since I haven't felt like playing it all that much.

The only issue I have is that when I use kb/mouse on my PS3 UT3, all the menus still say stuff like "Press X to confirm, O to cancel" as if I were still using the controller.
 
Got the game for xmas, finally got around to installing it yesterday, played a couple of team dm matches against some bots. My impression was that it played alot more like ut99 which alot of you guys have already said, way more faced paced then ut2k4, I didnt like the double jump, but i did get used to it. Other than that it played like UT should, and I liked it, so I cant wait to get online, download the new map pack and get to fragging

and just a side note, i was messing around with the editor for a bit, and it looks quite fun :p
 
If the game play is the same, then, I must ask: Why are we complaining of classic UT action in the first place? The gameplay is what made the game classic, correct?
 
TheGodfather47 said:
If the game play is the same, then, I must ask: Why are we complaining of classic UT action in the first place? The gameplay is what made the game classic, correct?
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I guess people are just really used to 2k3/2k4 style of game play. As of right now I would rather play 2k4 just cause I've only really gotten my feet wet with UT3, I'm sure as I keep playing UT3 ill start liking it alot more ;)
 
forcefed said:
We'll embrace it when they ditch the idiot proof ui.


Console users will embrace anything new thats thrown to them.


If you liked ut2k4 then no, wait a couple months until they patch it.
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you're a nerd.
 
Neurofreeze said:
It's basically like playing on the PC except now I have good framerates (cause my PC has a mediocre CPU while having a rather good GPU). I also finally have a use for my wireless kb/mouse combo other than looking sleek. The load time and framerate is surprisingly good. It only required a few hundred MB to install (I think 270?), yet it had far less load time and far better framerate than Heavenly Sword, which took over 2100MB to install. I haven't seen any slowdown, but I probably haven't pushed the limits of gameplay since I haven't felt like playing it all that much.

The only issue I have is that when I use kb/mouse on my PS3 UT3, all the menus still say stuff like "Press X to confirm, O to cancel" as if I were still using the controller.
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Thanks for the info - you'd best get practicing with that KB/mouse combo, you're gonna need it if they let us PC gamers at you :p:D
 
So, I just finished installing and patching. I will report back in a bit, after I have taken it for a spin.
 
Maybe when it returns to its roots and stop trying to be some sort of halo knock off. Vehicles and shit just make it hokey if you ask me. Close quarter battles on a space station oh good times.
 
...Halo knockoff it is not.

The game is really nice looking. The combat is fast and fresh. Vehicle CTF is a ton of fun so far :D

I ain't complaining ;)
 
Sorry for the double post, but this finding is worth it ;)

For those who can't stand the 'I am blind!' feeling of all that whack motion blur, depth of field, bloom stuff, please try this:

Navigate to:
C:\Documents and Settings\*username*\My Documents\My Games\Unreal Tournament 3\UTGame\Config

Open up this: UTEngine.ini
Change these from True to False.
Code: 
MotionBlur=False
DepthOfField=False
Bloom=False
QualityBloom=False

Credit: Jivemiguel - http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1245728

You will love the appearance of the game with those simple tweaks. Colors do not have that drab, washed out appearance, things in the distance are clear, and the game just gains another layer of polish IMO. Beware, however, that you may feel the need for AA: resist! It KILLS performance. 8x was a slideshow, 4x is SUPER inresponsive when there is lots of action onscreen. See my sig for specs - AA + UE3= system phail.
 
The biggest mistake on Epic's part was LISTENING TO THE STUPID COMMUNITY HAHAHA.. They complained and sulked about everything and never got their famous UT99 with UT3 graphics.. Since Epic tried to please so many people they ended up producing a FLOP which looks like UT mixed up with Gears of War art Design wtih a fcuked up UI which is just terrible to say the least. The game feels like a big MOD.

UT3 signifies the death of Unreal.
 
Shottah_king said:
The biggest mistake on Epic's part was LISTENING TO THE STUPID COMMUNITY HAHAHA.. They complained and sulked about everything and never got their famous UT99 with UT3 graphics.. Since Epic tried to please so many people they ended up producing a FLOP which looks like UT mixed up with Gears of War art Design wtih a fcuked up UI which is just terrible to say the least. The game feels like a big MOD.

UT3 signifies the death of Unreal.
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I must ask - have you ever actually played the full version of the game?
 
TheGodfather47 said:
If the game play is the same, then, I must ask: Why are we complaining of classic UT action in the first place? The gameplay is what made the game classic, correct?
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bigger targets, smaller maps, stronger weapons, slower movement means there is no dueling anymore: It's first see, first kill more than 90% of the time. That's the change that Xerus eluded to: Faster gameplay like UT99 is one thing, but when your target is this much larger, it significantly changes how the game works: You die a ~lot~ more often, and it's more about who gets the first set of shots off, instead of who is better at picking weapons and manuvering. Even UT99 had dueling: You were a smaller target. Now, almost anything will hit, and do too much damage.

As for warfare: The maps blow, the orb sucks (and the bots + orb sucks), and vehicles are a bit too strong. A good player used to be able to duel a vehicle down. Not so much anymore. No assault, plus all that...

pass.

edit: And yes, I've played the full version.
 
Well I went and bought the game the day it came out.. I'm not saying its a bad game I had a great time playing it. I just think that the experience you get from it is not worth your money.
 
lopoetve said:
bigger targets, smaller maps, stronger weapons, slower movement means there is no dueling anymore: It's first see, first kill more than 90% of the time. That's the change that Xerus eluded to: Faster gameplay like UT99 is one thing, but when your target is this much larger, it significantly changes how the game works: You die a ~lot~ more often, and it's more about who gets the first set of shots off, instead of who is better at picking weapons and manuvering. Even UT99 had dueling: You were a smaller target. Now, almost anything will hit, and do too much damage.

As for warfare: The maps blow, the orb sucks (and the bots + orb sucks), and vehicles are a bit too strong. A good player used to be able to duel a vehicle down. Not so much anymore. No assault, plus all that...

pass.

edit: And yes, I've played the full version.
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Everything that you have cited amounts to one thing - if you're to be successful at this game you must change your tactics from those previously employed. I shall not presume to tutor you, suffice to say that anyone going in to UT3 playing anything other than UT3, so to speak, will struggle.
 
Firsly, it's massively consolfied, the menu and UI almost take the piss compared to UT99, this game was clearly designed for the consoler users and the PC users were an afterthought.

The gameplay is not bad, the problem is that they've bumped the power of a lot of the weapons and you'll find yourself dying in 1 hit from probably over 1/2 the guns which is the perfect way to irritate all the new players into simply not playing online.

I feel that games like UT3 are a dying breed, less and less players can pick these oldschool shooters up and have fun without getting constantly annihilated.

For me i've not played it much due to playing so much TF2 and CoD4, but to be honest I think I'll stop playing TF2 soon due to the increasinly irritating feeling that no matter what I do in game or how well I perform it doesn't make one iota of difference to how well the team does, and CoD4's constant battle against airstrikes and helicopters may mean I'm looking for something with less irritating online gameplay.
 
jellyhead said:
Everything that you have cited amounts to one thing - if you're to be successful at this game you must change your tactics from those previously employed. I shall not presume to tutor you, suffice to say that anyone going in to UT3 playing anything other than UT3, so to speak, will struggle.
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I never said you didn't. However, the result is a game that many of us who have been playing the series from the start do not like. UT2k3/2k4 was very different from UT99, but both were fun.

UT3 is not.
 
The core gameplay mechanics of UT3 are very good, especially the capture the flag. But it is old school, and it is hard to embrace when TF2 offers a more rewarding experience.

I think UT3 is great for like 20 minutes or 30 minutes sessions but it isn't a game I like to play all night, like Team Fortress 2.

There is something to be said for mastering UT3. It is an incredible feeling when you are being engaged by two enemies with rocket launchers at close range and you dispose of both of them with your sheer reflexes and superior mastery of the weapons. It is a game that rewards skill.

The problem is that those types of incredible feats seldom have an impact on the larger match because your enemies respawn almost instantly. Whereas in TF2 a well placed rocket can turn the tide of battle, in UT3 each individual exchange seems to have less signifiance. To capture the flag you not only have to tear through the entire defending team but you also have to deal with the fact that your enemies respawn instantly near your objective and know you are coming. Then you have to get out of there with enemies on your tail, and you can't just run you have to take them out too. I almost never have enough ammo for that.

I don't know it is a fun game but you need to be crazy good to be an effective capture the flag player.
 
Blackstone said:
To capture the flag you not only have to tear through the entire defending team but you also have to deal with the fact that your enemies respawn instantly near your objective and know you are coming. Then you have to get out of there with enemies on your tail, and you can't just run you have to take them out too. I almost never have enough ammo for that.

I don't know it is a fun game but you need to be crazy good to be an effective capture the flag player.
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Which is why it's possible to get SUCH a rush when you score a flag :D I don't get that buzz from any other MP FPS.
 
FPS these days are less about aiming and more about keeping the crosshair on the target for the longest time. 1 shot kill games are extremely rare these days, even cod went toward the this direction (unless you play hardcore). UT is good just for different type of players.
 
exe163 said:
FPS these days are less about aiming and more about keeping the crosshair on the target for the longest time. 1 shot kill games are extremely rare these days, even cod went toward the this direction (unless you play hardcore). UT is good just for different type of players.
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Sort of like, eating these days is less about putting food in to your mouth and more about putting food in to your mouth? Hang on a minute...
 
I used to play UT2k3 and UT2k4 a lot. An unhealthy amount.

I've just played the demo, and the first thing I felt when I played it, is that UT has kind of left what made it special and unique. It seems to me that it's been too far influenced by Halo and Gears of War. It just seems like a bastard child of classic UTs and Master Chief.

An example of this is the in game dialog, like the taunts. In 2k4, they were stupid, but they brought lulz. They still bring me lulz every now and then. In UT3, they just sound stupid, generic, and they don't have that special UT aura to them.

The GUI does feel kind of cheesy. It makes me feel like I should be playing 360 instead of a pc. I guess the whole game just feels "consolized", the more I think about it. A sort of selling out and leaving us PC guys as an afterthought, because there's more money involved with consoles. Then again, it doesn't bother me that much, because I threw together a little INI file editor in VB6 one day, but I've only used it with the demo, and I'm not sure how compatible the INI files are between retail and demo.

Epic needs to take a look at everything, and go back to it's PC roots. UT3 ended up a console game on the PC, instead of the PC game with some shoddy console ports it SHOULD be.

Even then, I still find myself thinking about buying it. UT2k4 was really friendly towards editing things, and I don't see why someone can't just make a little mod that restores some of the more classic feel (like changing weapon damage, or MAYBE speeding up weapon switching).

UT3, in it's position, seriously needs the community to step up and do for UT3 what they did for UT2k4. I just worry, because UT3 is having a difficult time building the community, and if it never really forms, the whole game is going to be a giant flop.

It just pisses me off UT3 ended up being a kind of consolized sell out. The PC community gave a lot to the Unreal series by mods and user content, and it seems like UT3 was Epic taking an epic shit on everyone who has ever made something for UT while running to the consoles with dollar signs in their eyes.

But meh, the whole direction of games is really leaving me depressed. They are all ending up the same in the end, just with minor, minor tweaks. Even Valve, which is kind of a little golden boy. Well, look at their titles. CS:S is a sequel (if you really want to call it that), and their other big online game is Team Fortress 2, which is also a sequel. Even Half life is a sequel (however good it is, and I never played Hl1, even though I played CS 1.6 and original TF, so I won't make any judgements on half-life.)

I think that this whole thing is just a symptom of the sorry state of video games. It's become too expensive to take any risks in development, so we end up with similar games.

Take a look at CoD4. Now, I've only played the demo, but honestly, tell me. How much different is it from a game like BF2?

Now, before you start a pissing match over weapon damage and all that, I want you older guys to think back to back in the day. I mean, remember when Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Star Fox (on SNES), Doom, mario 64, zelda, sonic, grand tourismo, resident evil, tony hawk, the sims, WOW, sim city, and the original warcraft all came out? They were big deals, and they all brought something entirely NEW to gaming.

It's all about the sorry state of games, and it's only going to get worse. Look at the wikipedia best-selling video game list, and you can clearly see that the new systems game's all have a lot more numbers after them than the older ones.
 
I feel that games like UT3 are a dying breed, less and less players can pick these oldschool shooters up and have fun without getting constantly annihilated.
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Pretty much the truth... The long time fans will be pissed off by any attempt to make the game noob friendly and the noobs will just get pissed that they are not good at the game and leave. Lose lose situation. DM games are dead :(
 
The only way I'll embrace UT3 is when some decent maps are released and Epic fixes some of the issues with the game. The latter isn't likely to happen.
 
Dan_D said:
[...] The latter isn't likely to happen.
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Why so? Perhaps they will get thier act together...if the [H] and maybe some other big PC gaming forums throw together a petition, they will take action.

On the notion of a petition, what is your take on that? Maybe ask Kyle, and get in touch with the others? (Anand, the IGN/Gamespot community, etc)
 
TheGodfather47 said:
Why so? Perhaps they will get thier act together...if the [H] and maybe some other big PC gaming forums throw together a petition, they will take action.

On the notion of a petition, what is your take on that? Maybe ask Kyle, and get in touch with the others? (Anand, the IGN/Gamespot community, etc)
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I've never seen a petition work for anything. Epic does need to get their shit together on this game. It's sad that it took a patch to implement correct widescreen FOV settings. Things like that should have been done right from day one. I've got some gameplay problems with UT3. Mainly I can't stand what they did to Onslaught. I used to play the crap out of Onslaught mode but warefare is just terrible. Vehicle CTF has potential but I can't stand the maps. They suck.
 
Look people, Epic is extremely hardheaded when it comes to changing actual gameplay mechanics. The actual play of UT3 will remain the same, the only thing Epic is willing to change is bugs and the menu/server browser systems (and that doesn't mean getting rid of Gamespy, which is the culprit of the shitty server browser and having to use logins and only one name)

Epic will release a bonus pack with around 3 maps and a few meaningless character models like they did with UT2k4 and then they'll continue to use the community as a crutch to make the maps and the competitive community will once again have to do everything for themselves to setup tournaments, sponsors, cash prizes, box prizes, leagues, ladders, and competitive gameplay mods. I'm nearly 100% sure no large professional league will pick up UT3 (for example CPL) and instead they will take COD4 and maybe even Crysis. Hell, BF2142 will probably get a go ahead instead of UT3, which is just pitiful.
 
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