when will the 360 take advantage of installation?

D

Dome

2[H]4U
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Mar 16, 2002
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is the new installation system built to really take full advantage?

i'm thinking if games could do an install instead of being multi-disc (like an option, either install everything or have to swap discs) they would really be a lot more convenient. not that it's the end of the world to have to change a disc every 10 hours, but games with more content could simply be installed to save hassel might be amazing.
 
How many multidisk games are you playing on the 360? I can only think of two that even exist, but there are probably more.

The perfect console would have the optional hard drive installs of the 360 with the easy HD upgrading of the ps3. Instead we get sweet install options on the 360's shitty overpriced hard drives, and on the PS3 we get big hard drives, but shitty mandatory installs that break up games in a much more annoying manner than multiple disks (see: MGS4)
 
well that's the thing about not being any games, when are we going to get some that really take advantage? i feel like it's sitting here now but there's no use for it. AFAIK it doesn't really help with much more than the noise of the disc drive.

i totally understand how much it sucks to have mandatory installs, NOT having to install at all is one of the perks of a console (well it's supposed to be) but until xbox releases a console with a blu-ray drive i feel like i personally would rather install multi discs than swap
 
Dome said:
well that's the thing about not being any games, when are we going to get some that really take advantage? i feel like it's sitting here now but there's no use for it. AFAIK it doesn't really help with much more than the noise of the disc drive.

i totally understand how much it sucks to have mandatory installs, NOT having to install at all is one of the perks of a console (well it's supposed to be) but until xbox releases a console with a blu-ray drive i feel like i personally would rather install multi discs than swap
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I'm not sure what you're even asking in that first sentence...you want them to release more multi disc games just so they can all be installed on the HD? The install advantage is very noticeable to me on games I've taken multiple play throughs with before and after. Dead Rising and Mass Effect being two in particular. I also noticed, while playing lost odyssey, that during the load screens I never have time to read the "tips" since installing that I used to sit and stare at while the loading took place. It's not huge, but given the small increase in load times and the drive silence (and also console longevity-I've had more broken drives 2, than RROD 1), I'd say it's a sweet feature.
 
I think the 360 installs help out a lot. Especially with Lost Odyssey, that game had long load times, but after installing it, its so much better. I'm glad they released this option.
 
but remember some games the install can be detrimental, like halo3

i'd check the 360 install list for advantages/disadvantages
 
I'm pretty sure the Star Ocean game allows you to install the whole thing and avoid disc swap. There haven't been a lot of multi-disc games that were released after game installs became available.
 
BMWlover said:
Just curious, how was the install of Halo 3 detrimental? From casual play I have not noticed anything obvious.
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Load times are worse, with Halo 3 installed to the harddrive. I don't remember the details exactly, and I could be slightly wrong, but I believe the reason has to do with Halo 3 taking advantage of the section of the hard drived reserved for the system and caching. They were allowed to do this to speed things up back when people would be playing this from their DVDs (this was before installs was ever an option).

However, fast forward to NXE, and now when you install Halo on your 360, and start playing, the game is trying to read and write to the drive simultaneously (reading from the actual game install and then reading and/or writing to the system cache area, that the game normally makes use of). Even on their site Bungie has said to not install Halo 3.
 
Halo 3 is literally the only game that has this effect, and it is due to the specific way in which bungie made the game with their caching, as mentioned.
 
Technoob said:
How many multidisk games are you playing on the 360? I can only think of two that even exist, but there are probably more.
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I can think of five:
1. Blue Dragon
2. Lost Odyssey
3. Infinite Undiscovery
4. Star Ocean 4
5. The Last Remnant

That's not a complete list, but given that I own 4/5 (and will probably buy SO4 someday), multi-disc no-swap installs wouldn't be a bad thing. If it ever happens, I rather expect it will be in conjunction with the release of FF13.
 
Technoob said:
Halo 3 is literally the only game that has this effect, and it is due to the specific way in which bungie made the game with their caching, as mentioned.
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It may all be in my head, but --
I recently played Blue Dragon. The load times really seemed to increase when I installed the game to the disc. I ended up deleting the install and it really seemed to perform better... like I said though -- could be all in my head. At most, the speed was the same, but I really felt it was slower while it was installed.
 
why dosen't MS sell an empty HDD cage for like $50 and you can put whatever drive you want in it?
 
I thought GTAIV was much more smooth while roaming the city and playing online. Oblivion's loads seemed shorter as well. Maybe I'm just optimistic.
 
Every game I have installed has improved the game performance substantially. Orange Box was a huge change in improved loading and less pop-in.
 
Bogie 19th said:
Every game I have installed has improved the game performance substantially.
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same here.

I no longer own a 360, but when I did, just about every game I owned ran better installed. Framerates were smoother, loading times were much shorter and texture "pop-in" was reduced
 
"Installing" a game on the Xbox360 simply creates an image of the disc on the harddrive.
 
Bogie 19th said:
And then runs the game at HDD speeds with cache.
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Yeah but it's not installed in such a way that a multi-disc game could seamlessly switch from disc 1 to disc 2.

Remember that an installed game still requires the game disc to be inserted into the drive (for anti-piracy reasons). When you pop the drive open, the console returns to the dashboard. If you were to install both discs of a two-disc game you would still be prompted to insert disc 2.

You'll have to explain to me what you mean by "with cache". When a 360 game uses caching it loads files onto the HDD and tells the game to access it from there. With an installed game, that file would be copied from one sector to the harddrive to the other and then asked to read from the second sector. That activity is redundant and would have little to no positive effect on game loading times.
 
If you say so. However, Major Nelson (director of programming at Xbox Live) has stated that MS has aquired the tech to be able to install multi-game disks to the HDD without the need to swap disks. Only disk one needs to be present. It was in a podcast of his. So that blows your theory out of the water.

Cache will speed up the games. That is the purpose of cache. And yes, it can have "little" positive effect, depending on how the game is written. In the scenario of Halo 3, the cache design of the game actually slows that title down when it's installed.
 
It prompts you to switch the disk but you don't actually have to do it physically if you have the image on the HDD.
 
Bogie 19th said:
If you say so. However, Major Nelson (director of programming at Xbox Live) has stated that MS has aquired the tech to be able to install multi-game disks to the HDD without the need to swap disks. Only disk one needs to be present. It was in a podcast of his. So that blows your theory out of the water.

Cache will speed up the games. That is the purpose of cache. And yes, it can have "little" positive effect, depending on how the game is written. In the scenario of Halo 3, the cache design of the game actually slows that title down when it's installed.
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Do you have a link for that?
 
noobman said:
Do you have a link for that?
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Go to www.majornelson.com and click on his "podcasts" link on the left hand side. You would have to look in the fall time frame (on or around the months of the NXE release). It's there they discussed the technology behind it, and the name of the technology. It's already ready.

I do not know the specific podcast, as he has hundreds. Sorry.
 
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