What makes sandy bridge so good anyways?

The problem these days is that any new computer will be fast enough for most users. In my view even socket 1155 is obsolete (in a month anyway), but I still recommended a friend to get a socket 775 recently (with a Radeon 4650). They wanted an all-in-one touch screen and none of them have what I call a decent spec (especially for the money), but they love it - that's what matters.
 
R-Type said:
I gave it two tries, I will not waste any more time trying to get you to see the holes in this delusional argument you have concocted. At this point I fear if I succeed it would be akin to waking a sleepwalker...
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nice wording
 
Gaiden133 said:
So, are there any speculations as to which would be faster between LGA1366 and LGA1155?

So, a 2600K OC'd versus i7-950 OC'd ?
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An overclocked 2600K should beat an overclocked 950 at the same speeds and the 2600K should clock higher.
 
Activate: AMD said:
I still don't see SB being some kind of god chip. It seems like whenever I hear anyone talking about Sandy Bridge these days its just Intel fanboys foaming at the mouth for the latest and greatest thing like it was instantly going to turn every chip that came before it into a laughingstock. it'll be a solid mid-range chip that takes the shine off of the 1366 chips. 30-50% IPC benefits? maybe running specialized code, but do you honestly think we'll see 30% performance gains realized in normal tasks? the IGP is probably irrelevant for at least 50% of all the people at [H], so why are people getting so excited about it? unless I can use it for GPU accelerated programs while having my discrete GPU do visuals, it would just be disabled on my system anyway. I know its exciting to think that your mom's solitaire machine could run crysis at 1024x768 and all...

the best thing SB will do is drive down the price on 1366 boards
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That is all in your mind (whenever I hear anyone talking...)

I'm on this board a lot and NO ONE talks like you are claiming. Most people think it will be meh...

Your expectations seem about right. Maybe 10~15% increase for normal tasks. Some code might run more than double (video?). No one is getting excited about the IGP and yes, 1366 will still be very good.

I think you just fantasized that everyone is jerking off over Sandy Bridge, foaming at the mouth whatever...

or maybe you are talking about your friends or some other website because that isn't happening here.
 
Needmorecarnitine is right. Sandybridge is going to be better, but only by slight margins, like any new cpu series. Anandtech did some benchmarking with them and they are better, but barely. LINK
 
i think my Q6600 at 3.6ghz might be able to pull through the sandy gen. atleast until a game comes out that i see being very cpu dependent that i have to play and my Q6600 and 6870CF just cant handle.

or until an 8 core cpu comes down in price considerably. i just cant see me replacing my quad core for another quadcore unless i absolutely have to, id rather have more cores for video encoding any way so i dont mind waiting awhile.
 
At this point computers are plenty fast. If you are hurting for performance with an older machine, these newer platforms are by no means a bad investment. My LGA775 machine is alive and kicking and I haven't really felt the need to upgrade (which is surprising since my cycle is usually on the course of 2 years). This PC is going on 4 years old now. I've upgraded the GPU to a 5850, and am throwing in an SSD in the next few days, so I foresee this bad boy lasting me at least the next generation.

I've been really happy with the Intel parts being thrown out as of late. Same with the AMD GPU's.
 
NeoMatriX724 said:
At this point computers are plenty fast. If you are hurting for performance with an older machine, these newer platforms are by no means a bad investment. My LGA775 machine is alive and kicking and I haven't really felt the need to upgrade (which is surprising since my cycle is usually on the course of 2 years). This PC is going on 4 years old now. I've upgraded the GPU to a 5850, and am throwing in an SSD in the next few days, so I foresee this bad boy lasting me at least the next generation.

I've been really happy with the Intel parts being thrown out as of late. Same with the AMD GPU's.
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I agree best bang for your money is SSD..Hope prices drop some more after the 1st
 
ramenraider said:
Needmorecarnitine is right. Sandybridge is going to be better, but only by slight margins, like any new cpu series. Anandtech did some benchmarking with them and they are better, but barely. LINK
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15% clock for clock, with higher speeds and a better turbo (and likely better overclocking), plus lower power - how is that barely better? We'll have to wait to see with final silicon, but it's the first new architecutre from Intel for 2 years, so for that reason alone, it's a pretty big deal.
 
GLSauron said:
You realize arrandale is the codename for the mobile dual cores, right?
clarkdale is the desktop dual cores, and the IGP die itself is ironlake (IIRC).

I haven't recommended an AMD system, of any kind, since the K8 days. They may have a better IGP, but the westmere GPU is plenty for 99% of systems out there. The OEM market is still dominated by dual cores, so quads not having the IGP die isn't much of an issue there either. G4x was OK, but the IGP for westmere was a huge step up and sandy's is a leap beyond that.

My server is G31 based, my XPS M1330, which would have been GM4x IIRC, had the 8400GS in it, my E6410 is H55M, and none of my gaming PCs use integrated. So personally G41 didn't do anything for me.
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GLSauron, you're not a typical user (except here), and even I didn't knock G5x for performance reasons.

Also, G4x (including G41), like G3x before it, still permits discrete graphics (my LX2, in case you didn't read the sig, also includes a discrete GPU; I went G4x for price reasons). However, G5x didn't allow for upgrades to quad-core (because it did not support LGA1156 quad-cores, not even basic i7s). That meant if you had i7 anywhere in your future plans, you could not go with G5x.

I'm decidedly NOT a fan of IGP-based motherboards using a different socket than discrete-graphics motherboards. That is the mistake Intel made with G5x, and it looks like it didn't learn from it with Sandy Bridge.

Quad-core CPU pricing (across all of Intel's various sockets) has been headed down, and I don't see that trend coming to a halt during 2011. Slowing down, maybe (if economic growth takes off), but not stopping. Unless SB supports quad-cores, it will have issues.
 
PGHammer said:
GLSauron, you're not a typical user (except here), and even I didn't knock G5x for performance reasons.

Also, G4x (including G41), like G3x before it, still permits discrete graphics (my LX2, in case you didn't read the sig, also includes a discrete GPU; I went G4x for price reasons). However, G5x didn't allow for upgrades to quad-core (because it did not support LGA1156 quad-cores, not even basic i7s). That meant if you had i7 anywhere in your future plans, you could not go with G5x.

I'm decidedly NOT a fan of IGP-based motherboards using a different socket than discrete-graphics motherboards. That is the mistake Intel made with G5x, and it looks like it didn't learn from it with Sandy Bridge.

Quad-core CPU pricing (across all of Intel's various sockets) has been headed down, and I don't see that trend coming to a halt during 2011. Slowing down, maybe (if economic growth takes off), but not stopping. Unless SB supports quad-cores, it will have issues.
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Most people that used quads on s1156 could afford a low end GPU, that wasn't a huge downside. H55 could still use quads, it just wouldn't have the IGP available.
And all s1155 chips will have on-die IGPs, however.
 
For me, SB has value beyond the IGP. Yes, it's a big thing for most users but not for most here on [H]. The true value to me is the 5GHz+ overclocks on air cooling on a quad-core. That's huge! Most I7s can't break 4.5 right now on water and require serious voltage to even get above 4.2 in most cases.

I have a E8400, which is great and all, but my games at 19x12 are clearly maxing the processor based on my E15's monitor. The 4GB memory and GTX 260 are keeping pace pretty well but dual, even when overclocked, is showing its age. Given a choice between 1366 and SB, I'm choosing SB for the tick-tock phase and OC ability.
 
haxxorboi said:
For me, SB has value beyond the IGP. Yes, it's a big thing for most users but not for most here on [H]. The true value to me is the 5GHz+ overclocks on air cooling on a quad-core. That's huge! Most I7s can't break 4.5 right now on water and require serious voltage to even get above 4.2 in most cases.

I have a E8400, which is great and all, but my games at 19x12 are clearly maxing the processor based on my E15's monitor. The 4GB memory and GTX 260 are keeping pace pretty well but dual, even when overclocked, is showing its age. Given a choice between 1366 and SB, I'm choosing SB for the tick-tock phase and OC ability.
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Aye, thats the draw for me as well. Supcom needs all the clock and IPC it can get.
 
GLSauron said:
Aye, thats the draw for me as well. Supcom needs all the clock and IPC it can get.
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Yes, I think a lot of the excitement is from those of us still running a 775 system that skipped over socket 1156 and 1366. The upgrade itch has been getting BAD...
 
R-Type said:
Yes, I think a lot of the excitement is from those of us still running a 775 system that skipped over socket 1156 and 1366. The upgrade itch has been getting BAD...
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Yep. Watching my cpu sit at 99% in games like BC2 really makes me want to upgrade..

Need to hold out a little longer! This q6600 is going to be a beastly upgrade for my server when the time comes.
 
Ughhh You guys think you have it bad playing BC2. Try playing with a SINGLE CORE OPTERON and HD3850 agp graphics card. All settings on low but thankfully Im upgrading to Sandy Bridge soon.
 
I stopped playing pc games when I got an Xbox. And I see my Q6600 lasting me easily another 1-2 years. There is the lust to upgrade but the money is much better spent on other things, since I doubt a non-gamer will see any performance increase in typical tasks. IMO quad-core cpu's are the sweet point, they are plenty fast enough for almost anything and you never notice a lag or delay.
 
Maybe I'm a complete nerd, but does anyone else get a bit twitchy thinking about building a new machine. Not even that you need it or if it's a big upgrade, but the fun part of boxing it all and hoping to hell those dents in the UPS boxes didn't hurt anything too bad!

It's like Xmas time every time I build something. Takes me half a day of building and routing and then several days of tweaking... takes all the cares of school and work away!
 
haxxorboi said:
Maybe I'm a complete nerd, but does anyone else get a bit twitchy thinking about building a new machine. Not even that you need it or if it's a big upgrade, but the fun part of boxing it all and hoping to hell those dents in the UPS boxes didn't hurt anything too bad!

It's like Xmas time every time I build something. Takes me half a day of building and routing and then several days of tweaking... takes all the cares of school and work away!
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Yeap, I'm getting excited about all this new tech flying in for 2011. New gen SSDs, video cards, and Sandy Bridge. Good ol' E6600 has served me well for nearly 5 years. What a beast Core 2 Duo was.
 
R-Type said:
Yes, I think a lot of the excitement is from those of us still running a 775 system that skipped over socket 1156 and 1366. The upgrade itch has been getting BAD...
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I think that sums up how a lot of us feel. Come on SB!
 
Dizon248 said:
Yeap, I'm getting excited about all this new tech flying in for 2011. New gen SSDs, video cards, and Sandy Bridge. Good ol' E6600 has served me well for nearly 5 years. What a beast Core 2 Duo was.
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If the rumors are correct, 28nm TSMC node won't be ready for real gpu production until the beginning of 2012. This makes a current card a better buy than normal because you can expect a longer service life out of it without anything truly revolutionary upstaging it for the next year. Combined with the launch of SB and Bulldozer, early 2011 is shaping up to be a great time to build a system that will last a good while. Given that those of us still computing with a fsb (the pc equivalent of driving a car with a carbuerator) are bound to value this longevity, I don't think anyone can fault a bit of well warranted excitement.
 
To be honest, the most exciting thing about Sandy Bridge for me is the hope of snagging a nice x58 board for 50$ on fs/t or ebay.
 
needmorecarnitine said:
That is all in your mind (whenever I hear anyone talking...)

I'm on this board a lot and NO ONE talks like you are claiming. Most people think it will be meh...

Your expectations seem about right. Maybe 10~15% increase for normal tasks. Some code might run more than double (video?). No one is getting excited about the IGP and yes, 1366 will still be very good.

I think you just fantasized that everyone is jerking off over Sandy Bridge, foaming at the mouth whatever...

or maybe you are talking about your friends or some other website because that isn't happening here.
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Really, nobody? you haven't seen all the posts telling everyone who wants to upgrade to wait for SB? You haven't seen all the people getting totally amped over 5ghz+ overclocks? Maybe we're reading different threads.

At this point we've got a lot of speculation and a few preliminary reviews. not too much in the way of real numbers and no feedback from people with anything other than engineering sample silicon. That doesn't sound like a whole lot of stuff to go on. Personally, I'd be waiting on final silicon with released mobos in the hands of consumers before passing any judgments on its OC'ing abilities Sure, we'll see performance gains, i'm not denying that, but the implication being made to people who want to buy a 1366 platform (1156 is another story) is that they shouldn't bother because its going to be obsolete. there won't be anything new coming on that socket, sure, but there is a mature, proven platform available out right now, and the prices aren't all that bad. I expect to see a fairly large price premium being paid for early adoptors, which throws the whole SB value proposition into question. The real boon will be all the reduced price X58's and 1366's that'll be floating around.
 
R-Type said:
If the rumors are correct, 28nm TSMC node won't be ready for real gpu production until the beginning of 2012. This makes a current card a better buy than normal because you can expect a longer service life out of it without anything truly revolutionary upstaging it for the next year. Combined with the launch of SB and Bulldozer, early 2011 is shaping up to be a great time to build a system that will last a good while. Given that those of us still computing with a fsb (the pc equivalent of driving a car with a carbuerator) are bound to value this longevity, I don't think anyone can fault a bit of well warranted excitement.
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Oh I counted Q4 2010 as 2011, like how cars work. I have a lot of things to consider upgrading to. Still using E6600, ASUS P5W DH Deluxe mobo, GTX 260 sp216, don't have an SSD. 2011 is a great year for me =).

I also don't quite have a need to get a new card. I don't play too many demanding games. Most demanding thing I play now is SC2, that is more CPU bound than anything.
 
Dizon248 said:
Oh I counted Q4 2010 as 2011, like how cars work. I have a lot of things to consider upgrading to. Still using E6600, ASUS P5W DH Deluxe mobo, GTX 260 sp216, don't have an SSD. 2011 is a great year for me =).

I also don't quite have a need to get a new card. I don't play too many demanding games. Most demanding thing I play now is SC2, that is more CPU bound than anything.
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That's almost exactly what I have, except I have a SSD. Man, you are going to love the upgrade just from the SSD alone.
 
Activate: AMD said:
Really, nobody? you haven't seen all the posts telling everyone who wants to upgrade to wait for SB? You haven't seen all the people getting totally amped over 5ghz+ overclocks? Maybe we're reading different threads.
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Waiting 3 weeks to compare Sandy Bridge to S1156 and S1366 isn't foaming at the mouth, it is common sense. If you need a computer NOW, sure, you need it so buy it. But if you can wait, that only makes sense. Its not the act of a lunatic.

And why not get amped over 5GHz overclocks? Don't forget that you are on hardforum, not the Consumer Reports bulletin board.



As far as implications, that doesn't bother me. If there is a problem there, it is probably in the person reading it, not the way it was written. For example: "I suggest you wait for Sandy Bridge." One person may go "OH my god! that must meant the S1366 is the sucks!" Another may think "Seems prudent to wait to compare both models." The problem isn't some "implication", the problem is with the first person. They have brain problems. Sorry.


And you think that when Sandy Bridge comes out the real deal will be with S1366? Umm, yeah. Let us know how that goes. Cheapest S1366 on Newegg right now is $295
 
One thing that is interesting to me about SB is why isn't Intel releasing a higher clocked stock chip now that will fit into a 130W TDP so that people who buy systems from HP, Dell ... can enjoy higher clocks? Is this because of the new turbo boost?
 
drescherjm said:
One thing that is interesting to me about SB is why isn't Intel releasing a higher clocked stock chip now that will fit into a 130W TDP so that people who buy systems from HP, Dell ... can enjoy higher clocks? Is this because of the new turbo boost?
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I assume it's because Intel wants to sell chipsets.
 
needmorecarnitine said:
And you think that when Sandy Bridge comes out the real deal will be with S1366? Umm, yeah. Let us know how that goes. Cheapest S1366 on Newegg right now is $295
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i7-950's can be had for 200$ NIB with X58 mobos in the $150-$200 range. Not unreasonable to expect them to drop a bit more.
 
2500K or 2600K for me depending how much of a difference in terms of performance there is.
 
Especially with the holiday deals going on right now with free shipping and discounts you can get decently hooked up. With so much in question as far as pricing and performance on the new SB I myself just built a new 950 rig.

The way i figure it is I'll wait for the 2011 to release and mature over the next year or so and then upgrade and hand down this rig to my wife who will be using the system still in my sig.
 
Activate: AMD said:
i7-950's can be had for 200$ NIB with X58 mobos in the $150-$200 range. Not unreasonable to expect them to drop a bit more.
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Only at Microcenter. Do you know of any online retailers selling them that low? I might buy one if you do.
 
will intel still play feature games with sandy bridge.

I noticed a low model i5 has AES extensions but not the highe ri5 750, and only the i7 980x has AES, so they seem to selectivelyonly put some features on very few models.
 
Activate: AMD said:
i7-950's can be had for 200$ NIB with X58 mobos in the $150-$200 range. Not unreasonable to expect them to drop a bit more.
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Man, you really don't like SB do you? This is the second or third thread I've seen you blasting people for hoping SB is going to be a good chip. It's a good tick-step for the architecture. It's not going to be the end of the world whether or not it beats socket 1366. Even if it doesn't OC above 5+GHz on air most can't get their 1366 chips above 4GHz without serious air or water cooling. The TDP on the i7-950 at 3.06GHz is 130W vs a i7-2600K at 3.4GHz which is 95W. That's a 36% decrease in TDP which is excellent.

You must have better sources than me because the cheapest I'm finding an i7-950 is around $265 w/o shipping and around $295 on Newegg/Amazon. Secondly, the cheapest x58 on Newegg is $165 with most models that [H] users will use (Asus, GA-UD5, EVGA) starting around $230. You could buy a sub-$200 motherboard but most [H] users want higher than that. Even your own board is selling at $210, which is above your range.


chrcoluk said:
will intel still play feature games with sandy bridge.

I noticed a low model i5 has AES extensions but not the highe ri5 750, and only the i7 980x has AES, so they seem to selectivelyonly put some features on very few models.
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Is this from a vendor spec sheet or from Intel's website? If it's vendor they might have just made a mistake. I don't see them doing that with i5/7 much compared to when they did things like that with Celeron vs Core 2 architecture.
 
Dizon248 said:
Yeap, I'm getting excited about all this new tech flying in for 2011. New gen SSDs, video cards, and Sandy Bridge. Good ol' E6600 has served me well for nearly 5 years. What a beast Core 2 Duo was.
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5 years is impossible. You mean 4 years, if that.
 
chrcoluk said:
will intel still play feature games with sandy bridge.

I noticed a low model i5 has AES extensions but not the highe ri5 750, and only the i7 980x has AES, so they seem to selectivelyonly put some features on very few models.
Click to expand...
That's because those are Westmere processors, which are the "tick" of Nehalem.
 
chrcoluk said:
I noticed a low model i5 has AES extensions but not the highe ri5 750, and only the i7 980x has AES, so they seem to selectivelyonly put some features on very few models.
Click to expand...

haxxorboi said:
Is this from a vendor spec sheet or from Intel's website? If it's vendor they might have just made a mistake. I don't see them doing that with i5/7 much compared to when they did things like that with Celeron vs Core 2 architecture.
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32nm chips have the AES extensions. i5-6xx (dual cores) are clarkdale 32nm cores, i5-7xx chips are lynnfield 45nm chips. Its not so much feature games as the duals being a newer process than the quads.
 
chrcoluk said:
I noticed a low model i5 has AES extensions but not the highe ri5 750, and only the i7 980x has AES, so they seem to selectivelyonly put some features on very few models.
Click to expand...
One of the slightly weird things about the i series range is that the dual and hex core stuff (it's not just the 980x, the 970 and presumably 990x have it too) is a later version of the design than the quad core stuff. So the dual cores and hex cores have that feature but the quad cores don't.

Some of the xeon quads also have that feature because they are really hex core chips with cores disabled.
 
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