What keeps you going to Intel?

Sir-Fragalot said:
Have you ever done extensive testing with an nForce 4 SLi Intel Edition chipset based board? Well I have. I had a board based on the nForce 4 Intel Edition chipset for about three weeks. It was stable and performance wise, was comparable to Intel chipsets. I wouldn't call it immature. Sure it hasn't had the market penetration of the nForce 4 AMD chipsets. The Intel version isn't as old either. Benchmarks show that Intel based SLi systems show less performance gain, and generally perform like a machine equipped with a A64 3000+ or 3200+ in games. This isn't the chipsets fault. I think this is due to the difference in how Intel's perform in games. They simply aren't nearly as fast. So as a result, the Intel systems perform worse.

The motherboard I tested was very stable, and ran games fine. The 3D Mark scores weren't impressive by any stretch, but they weren't horrid either. I certainly don't remember SLi not scaling as well with it. I just remember overall gaming performance being worse. As is typical with Intel processor based machines.

Intel didn't choose Crossfire at all. Intel was going for Crossfire and SLi certification. nVidia chose not to certify Intel's chipsets, and dropped support for them. Probably because they wanted to increase market demand for their own Intel Edition chipsets. It was a business decision nVidia made. Nothing more.
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Oh. My. God.

Someone told the truth! :eek:
 
CHAoS_NiNJA said:
....

Why do *I* believe people go back to intel? They know the name. When a grandma goes into a ma-and-pa computer shop, all she knows is that she wants a "pentium". :p
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People will continue to ask for the Intel because Intel is the 5th most valuable BRAND on earth. The Intel Inside campaign was one of the greatest marketing campaigns ever for a manufacturing company.
 
As an Intel employee, I can say that they are a truly great company in all aspects of management, technology and innovation.

Intel has the CAPABILITY to supply the world with x86 processors and they keep up with demand. Take a look at Intel's financials and breakthroughs in it's industry, especially in marketing. Intel Inside was one of the greatest marketing campaigns which is why Intel is the 5th most valuable brand on earth.

AMD makes great processors and they do quite good as our competitor. Intel is not out to make the absolute bestest processor ever for the money, they are out to make money and continue to innovate. Take a look at Intel vs AMD in revenue, profit margin and capacity and you might learn a thing or too besides arguing which CPU works better for you for the price.
 
r3lic76 said:
As an Intel employee, I can say that they are a truly great company in all aspects of management, technology and innovation.

Intel has the CAPABILITY to supply the world with x86 processors and they keep up with demand. Take a look at Intel's financials and breakthroughs in it's industry, especially in marketing. Intel Inside was one of the greatest marketing campaigns which is why Intel is the 5th most valuable brand on earth.

AMD makes great processors and they do quite good as our competitor. Intel is not out to make the absolute bestest processor ever for the money, they are out to make money and continue to innovate. Take a look at Intel vs AMD in revenue, profit margin and capacity and you might learn a thing or too besides arguing which CPU works better for you for the price.
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Marketing ain't jack without consumers buying, being happy with their purchase and returning to buy again. AMD's sales have increased lately because of sales for Workstation use, not home users. DIYer sales are so few it is not worth talking about.

As for the money, that point was made many posts ago.

The rest of the Industry sees Intel as a "Cash Cow" while AMD is looked at as a "Cash Drain". Examples of this can be seen as Intel spent a Billion on Hynix, Samsung and even former enemy Micron to prop-up the RAM industry. Meanwhile AMD were busy borrowing 1.5 billion from the EU and the Germans.

Donnie27
 
bobthebaker said:
intel retailedge is why....
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Ditto. Newegg doesn't ship to my country, and most of the stuff higher than low-mid-end from local retailers are overpriced. I had to approach a big supplier, and they couldn't get me the proper CPU (thanks in part to AMD's confusing and redundant PR rating system) and the right Socket 939 mobo. I canceled the A64 and Socket 939 order and asked for an Intel P4 with a Socket 775 mobo instead. Order came two days later.

I'm pretty satisfied in it. I think it will be good for a couple of years. Oh yes, I don't need to run everything at 2048x1536 at full details.

Sure, it wasn't really the AMD CPU's fault that I didn't buy it, but then again that's why I bought the Intel chip.
 
serbiaNem said:
They should just agree on one standard, this is becoming a nightmare for consumers. Some noobie buys a motherboard with 2 SLI slots to find one of his cards just doesn't work...
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HTX :cool:
 
I didnt read 80% of this thread, but I will see this. The people that had problems with "stability" on AMD systems I would almost have to say they are PEBKAC.

You guys say they are "less stable"... where is your proof? The nforce chipsets have been as feature rich and stable as any comparable intel chipset.

I just deleted about 2 paragraphs of stuff supporting my arguement... I just really dont care how ignorant people are about the whole stability thing.
 
Then why do you troll in here? :rolleyes: Don't you have your own little playground to play in *hint* AMD subforum *hint*? Piss off! :mad:
 
Tengis said:
I didnt read 80% of this thread, but I will see this. The people that had problems with "stability" on AMD systems I would almost have to say they are PEBKAC.

You guys say they are "less stable"... where is your proof? The nforce chipsets have been as feature rich and stable as any comparable intel chipset.

I just deleted about 2 paragraphs of stuff supporting my arguement... I just really dont care how ignorant people are about the whole stability thing.
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I'm sure those same people don't care about folks who burry their heads in the sand and pretend everything is just peachy.

I'd bet there are many more people who use both Intel and AMD systems than Hardcore Intel or AMD users only. While I can easily see why folks keep going back to Intel, my hardest choice is; do I go with a DFI SLI Infinity $122 or a similarly priced Asus SLI $125, then a 3800+ or a 3500+ and do dual core next year.

Donnie27
 
Intel for working and networked to my LCD monitor in my living room. The hyperthreading helps in multitasking so much.

AMD for gaming and some video editting, but mostly gaming.
 
Genem said:
Intel for working and networked to my LCD monitor in my living room. The hyperthreading helps in multitasking so much.

AMD for gaming and some video editting, but mostly gaming.
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I'm getting a Guitar, a cheap Washburn. So all I have left is enough for a 3500+ and Asus A8N.

Donnie27
 
Tengis said:
I didnt read 80% of this thread, but I will see this. The people that had problems with "stability" on AMD systems I would almost have to say they are PEBKAC.

You guys say they are "less stable"... where is your proof? The nforce chipsets have been as feature rich and stable as any comparable intel chipset.
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Having built both Intel and AMD systems it's just a matter of experience for me. Going clear back to my first Intel system some 10 years ago to the one I have now is proof enough. I'm not saying the three AMD systems I built and used were bad and had major problems. All I'm saying is every Intel system I've built was less prone to BSOD, hardware incompatibilities, and just the general quirkiness of AMD systems. My last AMD system was probably the most stable of the three I built. But, it still never gave me the rock solid experience I've always gotten with the Intel systems I've built. The "proof" you're looking for is from people that have used both systems and have enough experience to tell you about it.
 
dark_reign said:
Having built both Intel and AMD systems it's just a matter of experience for me. Going clear back to my first Intel system some 10 years ago to the one I have now is proof enough. I'm not saying the three AMD systems I built and used were bad and had major problems. All I'm saying is every Intel system I've built was less prone to BSOD, hardware incompatibilities, and just the general quirkiness of AMD systems. My last AMD system was probably the most stable of the three I built. But, it still never gave me the rock solid experience I've always gotten with the Intel systems I've built. The "proof" you're looking for is from people that have used both systems and have enough experience to tell you about it.
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Generally I'd agree. Although the last 2 years have done alot for the AMD platform, and I haven't had any real problems to speak of out of any of my AMD based systems.
 
Tengis said:
You guys say they are "less stable"... where is your proof? The nforce chipsets have been as feature rich and stable as any comparable intel chipset.QUOTE]

I personally like AMD's. But here is my experience after building so many systems for friends and myself. Whenever I build and AMD system it takes about a week (part time) and 4 or more Windows installations to get the system work as it should without any freez-ups/lock-ups. Whenever I build an Intel system (this has happened all the time) from VERY FIRST Windows installation, the system works fine. I never had to reinstall Windows with an Intel system.
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Why do i have feeling, a very strong one, that those results are skewed by the craptacular Via chipsets?

I have built 4 systems with nForce2. All of them have worked the very first time, never BSODed, no extra worked needed. Now I have also built a nForce3 + Sempron combo recently for a friend. Also worked the 1st time.

That's 5 AMD systems with no problems.
 
Mav451 said:
Why do i have feeling, a very strong one, that those results are skewed by the craptacular Via chipsets?

I have built 4 systems with nForce2. All of them have worked the very first time, never BSODed, no extra worked needed. Now I have also built a nForce3 + Sempron combo recently for a friend. Also worked the 1st time.

That's 5 AMD systems with no problems.
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Not even close to what most people deal with when not building an Intel system at all. The only way someone even try to compare something like that is building both. There is not need for an FAQ section for building an Intel system. Newbies should always stay with an Intel rig before having to flash BIOS's to support different types of RAM, or to use an X-Fi. Then they have to understand that even with newer nForce boards and boards kicking PC-3200 speeds back to PC-2700 and 2T to try and stay stable. Or why AMD brags about supporting terabytes of RAM support while desktop motherboards don't support more than 4GB.

So the Rev-E processor fixes were made up uh?

Then there's nVidia bragging about NV-RAID and Firewall software, come on, tell me how well that works for ya'? Meanwhile, all of Intel's software works just as advertised. Somewhat slower but more stable, easy to setup/install and is more compatible right out the fruggin' box.

Donnie27
 
Eh, had a D945GCxx that needed a BIOS upgrade before it would support DMA on SATA drives...but hey, they've all got problems and neither side is bullet proof. (Though my dad is LOVING his Pentium 820 setup I built him, I never worry about that machine...)
 
vsrdan said:
Tengis said:
You guys say they are "less stable"... where is your proof? The nforce chipsets have been as feature rich and stable as any comparable intel chipset.QUOTE]

I personally like AMD's. But here is my experience after building so many systems for friends and myself. Whenever I build and AMD system it takes about a week (part time) and 4 or more Windows installations to get the system work as it should without any freez-ups/lock-ups. Whenever I build an Intel system (this has happened all the time) from VERY FIRST Windows installation, the system works fine. I never had to reinstall Windows with an Intel system.
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Funny....I haven't had a system not work fine on fire up on either side of the coin except when I had a DOA part....which is exceedingly rare (less than 3 or 4 total out of over the years...... lots...I couldn't give an honest guess too many systems over too many years). I even have done installs of less than stable or less than compatable Windows OS's and not had a problem........

Wonder what the other variables could be other than platform ;)
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Donnie27 said:
Not even close to what most people deal with when not building an Intel system at all. The only way someone even try to compare something like that is building both. There is not need for an FAQ section for building an Intel system. Newbies should always stay with an Intel rig before having to flash BIOS's to support different types of RAM, or to use an X-Fi. Then they have to understand that even with newer nForce boards and boards kicking PC-3200 speeds back to PC-2700 and 2T to try and stay stable. Or why AMD brags about supporting terabytes of RAM support while desktop motherboards don't support more than 4GB.

So the Rev-E processor fixes were made up uh?

Then there's nVidia bragging about NV-RAID and Firewall software, come on, tell me how well that works for ya'? Meanwhile, all of Intel's software works just as advertised. Somewhat slower but more stable, easy to setup/install and is more compatible right out the fruggin' box.

Donnie27
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QFT
 
Guys throw out the power of an fx-57 all the time. they are right, very powerful processor. That costs $ 995 as shown tonight on pricewatch.

Epox 5PDAJ $75
Intel 540J $160 Delivered. Ebay
G.skill 4400LE $135 105
Radeon X850XT $300 Local custom builder belly up sale
Antec 550 tru-power $105
Enermax case $72
Liteon DVD Writer $36
Liquid cooling set up $132

$1015 and in a benchmark that is more in keeping for what I do
PCmark04 there is not one single FX 55 or 57 ahead of my 7117 score. There
are however many clocked up to over 3500mhz all on super cooling that are
behind me. I run my little set up everyday of the week at 4305mhz My temps
are cold! with my liquid cooler I never run more that 26C even when benching at
4660mhz. This is the system I could afford and I am very happy with it
Thankyou Very Much.
3D05=7280 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=1463684
3D03=15254 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=4407846
PC04=7117 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?pcm04=3122587

I spend my most of my time video editing but, when I game I can play anything going.
I am ordering a 1gig set of G.Skill 4400LE shortly

You know the argument is old. Buy what you buy, learn to use it for more than a
bencher. I don't really give a damn what the other guy uses. I use what I use.
My money my decision. If a few don't like it. F'em

WZ
 
lol, comparing pricewatch pricing to what you were able to get one offs on ebay?

Feel that you've slanted your data, perhaps just a little bit?

Long story short, put the same cooling solution you've got on an amd processor and you'll end up with a faster rig for the same money---if you're HONEST about pricing each component out, and not comparing retail to ebay, chuckle.
 
vsrdan said:
I personally like AMD's. But here is my experience after building so many systems for friends and myself. Whenever I build and AMD system it takes about a week (part time) and 4 or more Windows installations to get the system work as it should without any freez-ups/lock-ups. Whenever I build an Intel system (this has happened all the time) from VERY FIRST Windows installation, the system works fine. I never had to reinstall Windows with an Intel system.
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I've never heard of anything like that

I have built systems with Intel, AMD and Cyrix. I never had a situation where I could attribute a problem to a cpu. Any of those brands.
 
Spectre said:
Funny....I haven't had a system not work fine on fire up on either side of the coin except when I had a DOA part....which is exceedingly rare (less than 3 or 4 total out of over the years...... lots...I couldn't give an honest guess too many systems over too many years). I even have done installs of less than stable or less than compatable Windows OS's and not had a problem........

Wonder what the other variable could be other than platform ;)
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QFT.
 
If I weren't honest about it I would not have typed Ebay. I have seen that chip on sale as low as $173. So gee add 13 bucks to the total. You are exactly the type I say F'em too.

WZ
 
vsrdan said:
Tengis said:
You guys say they are "less stable"... where is your proof? The nforce chipsets have been as feature rich and stable as any comparable intel chipset.QUOTE]

I personally like AMD's. But here is my experience after building so many systems for friends and myself. Whenever I build and AMD system it takes about a week (part time) and 4 or more Windows installations to get the system work as it should without any freez-ups/lock-ups. Whenever I build an Intel system (this has happened all the time) from VERY FIRST Windows installation, the system works fine. I never had to reinstall Windows with an Intel system.
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Funny, I haven't had problems getting a stable OS loaded on any Athlon 64. Even the bulk of the Athlon XP's and Socket A Sempron systems have all worked fine. I haven't really had any major AMD problems since the Thunderbird Core days.

Granted, I agree that Intel has generally had the most stable platform, but since I got into Athlon 64's I've seen great things from the Athlon platform. Granted, I've only ever used NForce chipsets. VIA was always a pain in the ass to work with back in the day. Same with SIS, ALi, ULi.
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Chris_Morley said:
Eh, had a D945GCxx that needed a BIOS upgrade before it would support DMA on SATA drives...but hey, they've all got problems and neither side is bullet proof. (Though my dad is LOVING his Pentium 820 setup I built him, I never worry about that machine...)
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Is that board in wide use like many of the DFI Ultra-Ds and Asus A8Ns like I just ordered? If I thought this stuff sucked or was crap I wouldn't have ordered one for myself. It's most certainly not that they all have don't problems, glitches or are just plain problematic but they do end up working. You're right, there is NO perfect hardware. Intel Chipset based motherboards just seem to have *FEWER problems, more compat, easier to set up since they reqire less tweaking and maybe they don't run balls-to-the-wall for stability's sake.

Maybe AMD should give Dirk a team to do chipsets and depend less on 3rd parties. Though nVidia/AMD chipsets have come a long way, they are not the *same as Intel as the other guy said. Let's not forget, VIA has made great stides as well but that's for another thread.

Donnie27
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
VIA was always a pain in the ass to work with back in the day. Same with SIS, ALi, ULi.
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I've never had a problem with VIA either and I've built several systems with them. I even sold computers with Cyrix and PC CHips motherboards and didn't have any problems apart from a few hard drives that died over the years

The only motherboard that ever game me problems was an ECS K75S (something like that for the athlon xp) and it was the occasional bios reset
 
Donnie27 said:
Maybe AMD should give Dirk a team to do chipsets and depend less on 3rd parties. Though nVidia/AMD chipsets have come a long way, they are not the *same as Intel as the other guy said. Let's not forget, VIA has made great stides as well but that's for another thread.
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What kind of problems do the Nforce 4 chipsets have?

and do you actually type donni27 in every post or do you have a key hotmapped to it?
 
needmorecarnitine said:
do you actually type donni27 in every post or do you have a key hotmapped to it?
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That just made me die laughing aahah!
 
needmorecarnitine said:
What kind of problems do the Nforce 4 chipsets have?

and do you actually type donni27 in every post or do you have a key hotmapped to it?
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Sureeee you haven't!

Donnie27
 
needmorecarnitine said:
What kind of problems do the Nforce 4 chipsets have?

and do you actually type donni27 in every post or do you have a key hotmapped to it?
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They often have bad SATA RAID controllers. I try to get boards with the Silicon Image raid controller and use those, as the nV RAID is good at eating OS installs.
 
robberbaron said:
They often have bad SATA RAID controllers. I try to get boards with the Silicon Image raid controller and use those, as the nV RAID is good at eating OS installs.
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I've never seen that problem, and I've built alot of machines with the nForce 4 chipset and it's never once happend to me. Not to mention the NVRAID controller usually outperforms the Silicon Image controllers in benchmark testing.
 
The NVRAID/NV IDE driver issues are well documented. It's one of the reasons why I don't recommend RAID-0 to enthusiasts, as most of them will be doing so on an NF4 system, and running RAID requires installing the NV IDE drivers.

From the issues with 16MB Maxtors, to the IDE drivers causing bizarre problems with CD/DVD Burners, it just isn't worth it. I'm going through such an issue right now...my Dad's new NF4 system won't burn anything, even though the drives worked fine on his previous ICH5R system.
 
DougLite said:
The NVRAID/NV IDE driver issues are well documented. It's one of the reasons why I don't recommend RAID-0 to enthusiasts, as most of them will be doing so on an NF4 system, and running RAID requires installing the NV IDE drivers.

From the issues with 16MB Maxtors, to the IDE drivers causing bizarre problems with CD/DVD Burners, it just isn't worth it. I'm going through such an issue right now...my Dad's new NF4 system won't burn anything, even though the drives worked fine on his previous ICH5R system.
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I've never had any of those issues. With any of my nForce boards, nor those I've tested or used in systems I've built in the past. Which amounts to more than 30 nForce 4 boards from various manufacturers.

Not saying you aren't correrct. I've just never seen those issues.
 
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