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What is the MINIMUM CPU/GPU to do a "bigadv"?

B

BlueMax

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
103
Another way of looking at this thread might be, "How to get the MOST points for the LEAST cash!" :p


I edited the top post so I can change the focus a little bit... I've sold off everything so I'm starting from scratch.

What do I need to run -bigadv or other very important CPU folding jobs? I'm not just doing this for points, but big points are being given BECAUSE the jobs are more useful to researchers - right? I'm doing this to cure cancer!

*If at all possible* I'd also like this to be my main Windows machine, where I'll do some occasional other stuff now and then, but will be pure folding 90% of the time.

I'd also like the keep this as inexpensive as possible for now, with room to add later. (Eg. a dual-socket board with one good multi-core CPU to start.) Maybe under $1000?

Thanks! Still folding as [H]ard as I can!
 
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The bonus is a curve directly related to the time between when you downloaded the unit and when the unit is returned for credit to stanford. It is an exponential curve so the faster the better. I would not recommend a 2600K for bigadv moving forward as the deadlines and units will be changing sometime in the near future. It is really a bad way to look at it. The point of the bonus is to encourage people to finish them as quickly as possible. I would not recommend anything less than 16 threads from now on, and performance that more than comfortably meets the "preferred deadline" of the units you wish to fold.

EDIT: bigadv units are much larger and riskier units that have more points awarded to them. Many of these units take an upwards of a day or more even on the fastest systems. The machines that run these units should be dedicated and have some of the better hardware around.
 
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at this point, big adv folding wont happen with the least cash ;) Your looking @ ~1k+ with sales to get a big adv machine these days. Technically a 2600k with a max OC (nearing 5 GHz i think) can sitll pull it off.

Figure out a budget first, then we will be able to better help you decide what direction to go.
 
Well....

In the near future the only -bigadv that will be out there are 16 thread.
But with the deadlines they have, you need a fairly fast 16 thread.

So a SR-2 with L5640's with a (I think) 3.2Ghz OC is about as low as you wana go to hit this round of -bigadv (Someone verify me and I will change numbers if need be)

That said, -bigadv has been and will be a moving target. It will always be the upper crust of machines out there. So if you build a -bigadv box now that just makes the cut, There is a good chance that it wont 1-2 years down the line when they move the mark again.

-bigadv is a nice big carrot for those who want to build crazy fast rigs and return HUGE WU back to Stanford super quick. As machines get faster, that WU will get bigger..... and the cycle moves on.
 
This is good to know... it makes me consider far more expensive options like dual-2011 boards and a pair of 4-core (8 thread) processors. Still - I might be getting into very diminishing returns making a move like that, as instead of spending $400 for a 2600k and mobo, I'd be looking at $1200-1500 in order to barely double my CPU abilities.

AMD has some multi-core options out there but I've been told by lots of you guys that they simply don't perform nearly as well... more cores but still less performance.
Eg: The AM3+ 8-core processor is crushed by the 4-core (8 thread) 2600k - right? (Some have even said the i5 2500k still beats it!)

Sounds like it's either spend $1200 and get huge points, or spend $400 and make my small contribution to the team...

$400 for 10-20k ppd
or
$1200+ for (?)50-100k ppd
 
BlueMax said:
AMD has some multi-core options out there but I've been told by lots of you guys that they simply don't perform nearly as well... more cores but still less performance.
Eg: The AM3+ 8-core processor is crushed by the 4-core (8 thread) 2600k - right? (Some have even said the i5 2500k still beats it!)
Click to expand...

EDIT: Server AMD

Who told you this? Maybe for other tasks AMD does not perform, but for folding AMD is quite good. Many of us are running 4P-8P AMD machines that put out a lot of production. For folding AMD is a very viable option.

Small investment small rewards, big investment big rewards in folding.
 
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in Folding AMD server processors actually are the best bang/buck, and a 4p setup from AMD is the best setup you can make points wise.

The choice is ultimately yours, if your not looking for big points and want a daily driver out of it, get a 2600k, and run linux on it for when your folding (can pull 35k or more that way)
 
Untitledone said:
Who told you this? Maybe for other tasks AMD does not perform, but for folding AMD is quite good. Many of us are running 4P-8P AMD machines that put out a lot of production. For folding AMD is a very viable option.

Small investment small rewards, big investment big rewards in folding.
Click to expand...

Well, how would the Bulldozer FX-8150 8 Core compare to the i7 2600? (Stock speeds to be fair.) Does one solidly trounce the other or are they fairly close?
 
For bigadv AMD is actually a pretty good setup, MUCH more cost effective than 2p lga2011. A 4p 12-core will net you 48 cores and handle any bigadv that they will give out for quite some time.

BlueMax said:
Well, how would the Bulldozer FX-8150 8 Core compare to the i7 2600? (Stock speeds to be fair.) Does one solidly trounce the other or are they fairly close?
Click to expand...

2600 is quite a bit faster

If you want a daily driver, as mentioned above, it's really difficult to get a machine that can do bigadv AND be a daily driver. Plus if you turn off folding in order to game, you may end up missing deadlines, and will at least lose out on some bonus points.
 
You need to put Server level AMD, at the desktop level, A 2600k will still beat a 8150, however when you get into more cores you gain alot in PPD rather than speed.
 
BlueMax said:
Well, how would the Bulldozer FX-8150 8 Core compare to the i7 2600? (Stock speeds to be fair.) Does one solidly trounce the other or are they fairly close?
Click to expand...

The bulldozer FX desktop 8 cores would be comparable to a 2500K for folding. A 6 core thuban would be a better price/performance investment if you went the single socket AMD route.
 
Untitledone said:
The bulldozer FX desktop 8 cores would be comparable to a 2500K for folding. A 6 core thuban would be a better price/performance investment if you went the single socket AMD route.
Click to expand...

Looks like I won't be doing the big jobs anytime soon anyway. :( Even if I found some extra coin to spend $1000 and baaaaarely reach the bigadv requirement, it'll only jump out of my grasp next year.

Sounds like I should just buy something I like, use it any way I want and just let it fold as much as it possibly can, taking whatever points it's going to give me.

Bigadv sounds like a tasty nugget to reach for... when I have a couple grand to spare. :(
 
BlueMax said:
Looks like I won't be doing the big jobs anytime soon anyway. :( Even if I found some extra coin to spend $1000 and baaaaarely reach the bigadv requirement, it'll only jump out of my grasp next year.

Sounds like I should just buy something I like, use it any way I want and just let it fold as much as it possibly can, taking whatever points it's going to give me.

Bigadv sounds like a tasty nugget to reach for... when I have a couple grand to spare. :(
Click to expand...

I think that is well reasoned.
 
Posted in your other thread.

Pocatello said:
Sorry. We are experts at gobbledegook. I predict you will be one day as well.

However, first things first.

Have you started folding? Have you turned in any work units on the current hardware that you own right now?

Make sure you enter your user name, passkey, and team number (33).

Instead of asking about a dedicated folding machine, I would ask about what kind of new computer you really need which you can also fold on. Do you want a new daily driver? Do you need a new gaming machine? Do you need an HTPC? Does your spouse or best friend need a computer? If so, work in that direction. Find a true need to fulfill before jumping into the folding game. After doing that for a time you will find that you have the answers you need.

Welcome to team 33, and welcome to our forums. Glad to have you here. Most all of us are pleasant and helpful. :)





Click to expand...
 
And the specs were there too;

AMD dual-core phenom unlocked to Quad. (tempting to upgrade to 6-core)
12GB DDR3
Geforce 550ti (currently what I'm folding with.)


I just heard so much talk about this "bigadv" and how important it was... I wanted to do it if I could. Sounds like it's just too high for anyone without server-level stuff to attain.
 
Kendrak said:
Well....

In the near future the only -bigadv that will be out there are 16 thread.
But with the deadlines they have, you need a fairly fast 16 thread.

So a SR-2 with L5640's with a (I think) 3.2Ghz OC is about as low as you wana go to hit this round of -bigadv (Someone verify me and I will change numbers if need be)

snip
Click to expand...

Punchy tested this on his stock boxes a while ago, stock x5650 hex cores (2.66ghz) is the minimum to make the deadline and stock 5670's give you about a 5 hour margin on the deadline, to get a decent bonus you would need to push that over clock higher
 
I have a 2p l5639 (Extra Special) 2.26Ghz, and I'm just making the 6904 units with about 6hrs left.

Thats the minum probably today.
 
I have a 2p E5640 that is hitting bigadv, albeit not as fast I'd like.

Single core 8120 oc'd to 4.3 is doing 22-23k depending on WU. It would do more with tighter ram, prob 25k. ppd.

Both the above run linux and fah only.
 
Both a 2500k and an x6 are both BigAdv capable. 2600k does them easily atm. This wont last for long though.
 
G3RG said:
Both a 2500k and an x6 are both BigAdv capable. 2600k does them easily atm. This wont last for long though.
Click to expand...

2500k and x6 are not -bigadv capable, you need 8 cores or threads to be able to download them.

A 2600k has 4 cores but 8 threads, so the client will download a -bigadv for now. But they are moving that line to 16 cores/threads.
 
Kendrak said:
2500k and x6 are not -bigadv capable, you need 8 cores or threads to be able to download them.

A 2600k has 4 cores but 8 threads, so the client will download a -bigadv for now. But they are moving that line to 16 cores/threads.
Click to expand...

When's it moving?
 
Kendrak said:
2500k and x6 are not -bigadv capable, you need 8 cores or threads to be able to download them.

A 2600k has 4 cores but 8 threads, so the client will download a -bigadv for now. But they are moving that line to 16 cores/threads.
Click to expand...

I don't intend to start and argument, but you are wrong.

From Pande himself:
Sorry for not being more clear in the post. It's 16 physical cores in terms of speed (to make the deadlines), but since the client just looks for logical cores (and can't tell the difference between logical and physical cores), the client hard minimum will be 16 logical cores (if we made the client minimum 32 cores, then there would be cases of people with 16 physical cores not working). Since this is a bit confusing to say, I tried to stress the speed needed (16 physical cores), but as before, the key determining issue will be making the deadlines (especially since some people often spoof the number of cores the client detects anyway).
Click to expand...

They're only interested in clients meeting deadlines. He clearly says the 16core limit is set as a "benchmark." If your system is as fast as a 16core... go for it.
 
Just wanted to thank you guys for providing such great info!

This still means the bare minimum is SERVER-class, not desktop-class. You'd need a pair of i7 quad(8) cores in order to make the cut.

Joe Blow on his home computer can just fold away on the basic stuff, I guess. ;)
 
G3RG said:
I don't intend to start and argument, but you are wrong.

From Pande himself:


They're only interested in clients meeting deadlines. He clearly says the 16core limit is set as a "benchmark." If your system is as fast as a 16core... go for it.
Click to expand...

But the fact is a client will NOT give you a bigadv WU with (currently) less than 12 logical cores. Soon to be 16. We consider it to be unethical to use hacks to get bigadv to run on machines that the client wont allow by default.
 
The core hack only modifies the OS. It's as unethical as running linux in a VM for a ppd boost.
 
Many people I'd assume? If I wanted to fold on my main rig I'd fold in a linux VM. It boosts ppd.
 
G3RG said:
The core hack only modifies the OS. It's as unethical as running linux in a VM for a ppd boost.
Click to expand...

You are providing incorrect info to the client.

It is againt the EULA.

And the post you copied from PJ is about threads vs cores.

We do not tolorate advocating this and similar activities. Kindly stop.
 
As a newbie, I don't see what the big deal is... If you're handed a 100-page assignment and you're able to do it in the time allotted, why not?

If you're not given the 100-page assignment unless you meet the requirement of 16 brains, but your 8 brains are fast enough to get the job done in time to get paid for the job, why is it so frowned on?

Is it because the people who spent 4x more money on equipment get miffed someone is fudging their resume to claim to have twice the cores? Who cares unless the job doesn't get done on time?


Of course, I've been folding for all of a couple weeks - what do I know? :p
 
Neither do I.

Numerous times we've seen fallacy of hardware qualification by artificial specs (number of
threads). Not only in context of BA (though, in context of BA it's most spectacular as
we all can see).

Project has created whole point "economy" so it's in no position to condemn donors for
pursuing the points.

Not to mention that the project has been taking advantage of alternative means of
qualification for some time now (QRB + tight deadlines). It's already happening.
 
BlueMax said:
Is it because the people who spent 4x more money on equipment get miffed someone is fudging their resume to claim to have twice the cores? Who cares unless the job doesn't get done on time?
Click to expand...

It is that actually :p

And it's also not against the FAH EULA.


Also: Not bashing on Tear or Kraken (as I use it myself)

But Kraken is much much closer to breaking the EULA (and may infact do so depending on how you interpret it) than a core hack ever will be. Kendrak I'm sure you use the Kraken on your 4p, you see no problem with it?

As it stands: Core hack IS legal based on the EULA and VJ's own word.
 
Regardless of whether the corehack is ethical or not, or against the FAH EULA or not, bringing this discussion to [H] forums, where there is a strong opinion about it, cannot be with good intention. Maybe BlueMax doesn't know, but sure G3RG knows. So, the question for you G3RG: What's your purpose, other than trying to pick a fight?
 
G3RG said:
Both a 2500k and an x6 are both BigAdv capable. 2600k does them easily atm. This wont last for long though.
Click to expand...

Please do not bring any OCN corehack nonsense here, we dont condone or appreciate it.

As far as [H] is concerned x6 and 2500k are not bigadv capable, 2600k only until 6900/01 are finished
 
I was just answering the OP's question. Sr2's are not the cheapest way to legally do bigadv atm. 2500k's and x6's are.

I was challenged by Kendrak and I responded.
 
I think it's best if every person speaks for himself/herself :)
 
tear said:
I think it's best if every person speaks for himself/herself :)
Click to expand...

Agreed, everybody for themselves. Nobody needs to convince the other, and I don't see any possibility for that. So discussion is not only futile but harmful for the universe (negative energy) ;)

That said, if I hated Greek people, I wouldn't yell it out loud in Athens...

PS: Just to clarify, I don't hate Greek people.
 
theGryphon said:
Agreed, everybody for themselves. Nobody needs to convince the other, and I don't see any possibility for that. So discussion is not only futile but harmful for the universe (negative energy) ;)

That said, if I hated Greek people, I wouldn't yell it out loud in Athens...

PS: Just to clarify, I don't hate Greek people.
Click to expand...

I understand your view. I made a joke earlier to Kendrak about someone walking into the Coca-Cola board room and trying to sell Pepsi.
 
Untitledone said:
I understand your view. I made a joke earlier to Kendrak about someone walking into the Coca-Cola board room and trying to sell Pepsi.
Click to expand...

Lulz where had.

OCN is welcome to their Pepsi, we are not going to put a vending machine in here however.
 
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