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What is special about linux

jpmkm said:
I know ubuntu does. You can set it to automatically update, notify you of updates, or don't check at all. Anything that you installed through ubuntu's package manager will get updated, including the kernel. You don't have to compile your own kernel or anything like that.
Click to expand...

yup indeed ubuntu does do that.



most people who tried linux and say it sucks or is worse than windows, used linux 3-4 years ago and still think its the same from my experience. Linux has made many improvements and is still CLI driven if you so choose, thereby leaving it up the user to do as they see fit with the OS, whereas WindowsOS is forcing one to things how MS wants it to be done.


another thing to be aware of is DRM! OSX and Vista will be loaded with DRM to put even more restrictions on the user... and I still believe that one of MS strageties is to design a "Terminal" type OS that you pay a monthly fee to use, nothing is stored or installed locally.. its on MS servers, though you can log into any machine with this undeveloped OS installed and have your desktop with your programs, pics, music movies, accessible anywhere in the world.. now hey that is cool, but I do not want my documents stored on MS servers and what not... due to security and stability and possibly deleted because MS doesnt approve.. of course this is all speculation, but I do believe it is process in the works.

so to each their own, I am forced to use Windows at work and for new games that come out I want to play... but beyond that i use ubuntu because it works the way I want it to.
 
Amazing how we no longer, tell our computers what to do, but are allowed to do what our computers allow us to. Good ol' DRM.

A reason why I use linux.
 
As I Lay Dying said:
Amazing how we no longer, tell our computers what to do, but are allowed to do what our computers allow us to. Good ol' DRM.
Click to expand...
That's how it's always been, and it's got nothing to do with DRM.

It's all about which is more flexible; The computer or the user. Since the beginning of computers, it's always been the user who is more flexible, and it will continue to be so for the next 5 years at least.

Is there any particular reason everyone wants to turn this argument in to a "who's got the bigger dick" contest? Because, frankly, there are enough factual points to argue over on the merits between the different systems without having to involve everyone's fragile ego.
 
Stellar said:
First and foremost this is a round-robbin completely subjective argument you are making.. it goes back to the age old KDE vs. GNOME argument. Useability and modularity both have advantages which present themselves best given the end user situation. So far it just so happens that useability wins out when the majority of users of the operating computer systems spend 80% of their time running 20% of the code.

Simply put, the majority of users use only a minority of OS and hardware features and aiming your applications and interfaces toward useability leverages that.

An example is, you don't build a dash like a Boieng 747 into a Kia Spectra. It's overcomplicated and only serves to obviscate the user of the vehicle to the features that they primarily need.

Also to address your bullets

1)
- Windows is still DOS-based, not entirely GUI driven. I use the command line in Windows at work as much as I use the console in Linux at home. If you are not familiar with sysinternals, they make 100s of absolutely awesome tools that are primarily command line based for everything from monitoring registry activity to sniffing packets on your LAN.
- "It is therefore unusable..." Not useable? The whole point of the GUI and the "desktop metaphor" is to increase useability. "...it uses you." I have no idea what you mean by that.

2)
- CLI is certainly not limitless. You are absolutely limited by the commands that your shell provides, that were written for you by developers long, long ago.
- You can pipe commands and redirect output in DOS just the same as is done on a *nix CLI. Apparently you are ignorant of some facets of Windows that have existed since its beginning.
Click to expand...

I dont want to be too big a prick, but I gotta say it......

Do you know what the mach kernel is? And do you know what IBM did with it? And do you know the agreement MS had with IBM in devoloping their version of it? And do youknow what happened to that agreement?

Sorry but DOS is dead.... It has been since 6.22.... Yes MS has a terminal emulator. But it's crippled. It only gives you the facilities that rae already included in the crippled GUI. And no it doesnt even come close to what CSH, BASH, or ZSH is capable of.... In thinking so you have succumbed to MS mind washing.... Some prefer to call it dillusions.

It's kinda like being told all yourlife that the color blue is green.... If rthat is all you know then to you blue really is green..... Whether you believe it or not it's still a dillusion.

Another example is being told all your life that MS is as capable as anything else..... We know that is BS, but if that is all you know, then it will betrue to you, but in REALITY..... It's just a dillusion.

You might want to consider looking back in history and seeing how the OS's have developed.... Specific interest in OS2, and Windows NT..... That will give a much better idea of the reality of the current situation we find ourselves in......
 
hmmm....I am saying drm is starting to get out of hand, I'd like it if microsoft or apple also respected my rights as the person who owns the computer and the operating system. Its gotten to the point where, ripping cds you own, can only be played on the computer that ripped it, doesnt matter if you own multiple computers, or can only be played with only windows media player, or itunes. Meaning oh hey now I cant listen to my digital files on my portable audio player, or on my computer with another operating system.
 
duby229 said:
I dont want to be too big a prick, but I gotta say it......

Do you know what the mach kernel is? And do you know what IBM did with it? And do you know the agreement MS had with IBM in devoloping their version of it? And do youknow what happened to that agreement?

Sorry but DOS is dead.... It has been since 6.22.... Yes MS has a terminal emulator. But it's crippled. It only gives you the facilities that rae already included in the crippled GUI. And no it doesnt even come close to what CSH, BASH, or ZSH is capable of.... In thinking so you have succumbed to MS mind washing.... Some prefer to call it dillusions.

It's kinda like being told all yourlife that the color blue is green.... If rthat is all you know then to you blue really is green..... Whether you believe it or not it's still a dillusion.

Another example is being told all your life that MS is as capable as anything else..... We know that is BS, but if that is all you know, then it will betrue to you, but in REALITY..... It's just a dillusion.

You might want to consider looking back in history and seeing how the OS's have developed.... Specific interest in OS2, and Windows NT..... That will give a much better idea of the reality of the current situation we find ourselves in......
Click to expand...

sorry to derail this, but do you know difference between an ellipsis and a period is?

You obviously don't know much about Windows if say DOS was dead at 6.22. Windows 9x was heavily dos based. Even ME had DOS, although MS tried to hide it from the end user without much success. DOS didn't die until NT hit the consumer market in the form of XP.

And what about OS2 and WinNT? MS developed both.
 
beta had serious shortcomings of its own, such as the fact that the tapes only lasted an hour. Who wants to record a movie off tv over two tapes?

As I Lay Dying said:
You said that if linux were better then it woul have a bigger desktop market, ummm I would like to point out there have been several examples were better products were bested by inferior products, classic example beta vs vhs.
Click to expand...
 
get your shit together. There is nothing DOS about WindowsXP.

Also, it seems obvious to most people that the utilities sysinternals makes should have been included with windows from the get go. The simple fact that they are not included goes to show that microsoft intends to restrict your usage. Unless you want to pay $250 bucks / machine or however much it is for the MS Resource kit.

Stellar said:
1)
- Windows is still DOS-based, not entirely GUI driven. I use the command line in Windows at work as much as I use the console in Linux at home. If you are not familiar with sysinternals, they make 100s of absolutely awesome tools that are primarily command line based for everything from monitoring registry activity to sniffing packets on your LAN.
- "It is therefore unusable..." Not useable? The whole point of the GUI and the "desktop metaphor" is to increase useability. "...it uses you." I have no idea what you mean by that.

2)
- CLI is certainly not limitless. You are absolutely limited by the commands that your shell provides, that were written for you by developers long, long ago.
- You can pipe commands and redirect output in DOS just the same as is done on a *nix CLI. Apparently you are ignorant of some facets of Windows that have existed since its beginning.
Click to expand...
 
yes, because citing the existance of GNU and other free software, designed originally for Linux, ported to windows, is a good example of windows' inherint superiority over GNU/Linux :rolleyes:

ryan_975 said:
there's even a Unix like CLI that utilizes many *nix commands for Windows called Cygwin. Not sure about MingW, but I think it's a CLI too, may just be a compiler environment though.
Click to expand...
 
Whatsisname said:
yes, because citing the existance of GNU and other free software, designed originally for Linux, ported to windows, is a good example of windows' inherint superiority over GNU/Linux :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
GNU software was not designed for use with the linux kernel. Most of the standard GNU utilities were written(in at least one form or another) before linux existed. Linux would not be here(in it's current form, at least) if the GNU utilities had not been in place in 1991.
 
Whatsisname said:
yes, because citing the existance of GNU and other free software, designed originally for Linux, ported to windows, is a good example of windows' inherint superiority over GNU/Linux :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

next time try reading my posts. I never said Windows was superior.

And since when does the RK for windows cost $250? I've always been able to download it for free.
 
ryan_975 said:
sorry to derail this, but do you know difference between an ellipsis and a period is?

You obviously don't know much about Windows if say DOS was dead at 6.22. Windows 9x was heavily dos based. Even ME had DOS, although MS tried to hide it from the end user without much success. DOS didn't die until NT hit the consumer market in the form of XP.

And what about OS2 and WinNT? MS developed both.
Click to expand...

Like I said, I never did so good in English........

OK, I dare you.. Triple double dog dare you, to find one.... Just one difference between 6.22, and any newer version. Go ahead.... :D

No MS did not develop both. They are one in the same. One OS two names. And guess who developed the API (win32), the kernel, the GUI, the boot loader, and more.... It wasnt who you think.... And the fact REMAINS that it has been largely untouched since then. They have added a few tweaks to the front end in XP, and they added DX support in 2000, and made some driver model changes in 2000, but otherwize it's the same damn thing IBM developed 10 years ago.... 10 years..... A long long time to sit on your hands if you ask me.

They are finally working on replacing win32 with .NET, and later on WinFX... A good step forward, which I believe is the first time MS actually coded any of there own code in history.
 
Whatsisname said:
yes, because citing the existance of GNU and other free software, designed originally for Linux, ported to windows, is a good example of windows' inherint superiority over GNU/Linux :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


wow you really are spewing garbage.. teh guy you just quote didn't even hint that he thought XP was better or anything like that..

man.. some of you guys really need to read the whole thread before you start accusing people..

people on this forum need to practice their reading comprehension skills
 
duby229 said:
Like I said, I never did so good in English........

OK, I dare you.. Triple double dog dare you, to find one.... Just one difference between 6.22, and any newer version. Go ahead.... :D

No MS did not develop both. They are one in the same. One OS two names. And guess who developed the API (win32), the kernel, the GUI, the boot loader, and more.... It wasnt who you think.... And the fact REMAINS that it has been largely untouched since then. They have added a few tweaks to the front end in XP, and they added DX support in 2000, and made some driver model changes in 2000, but otherwize it's the same damn thing IBM developed 10 years ago.... 10 years..... A long long time to sit on your hands if you ask me.

They are finally working on replacing win32 with .NET, and later on WinFX... A good step forward, which I believe is the first time MS actually coded any of there own code in history.
Click to expand...

If you read your history correctly, then you'd know that MS and IBM co-developed OS/2, they had a disagreement and MS took their code with them and turned it into WinNT, and IBM continured to develop OS/2. And there's a lot more than front end changes between NT 3.1 and XP.
 
ryan_975 said:
If you read your history correctly, then you'd know that MS and IBM co-developed OS/2, they had a disagreement and MS took their code with them and turned it into WinNT, and IBM continured to develop OS/2. And there's a lot more than front end changes between NT 3.1 and XP.
Click to expand...

Ok... Let's see....

1: A new front end
2: DX support
3: A newer driver model
4: some new applications
5:.......??????

I cant think think of anything else.... Most of the new applications were bought from other companies, the driver model was required, the front end was done becouse otherwize it is the same thing as 2000, and they needed a way to sell it..... But that is it.
 
many of the official GNU software yes, however there are shitloads of programs and other libraries packaged into cygwin that are not offical GNU packages, and the majority of cygwins software comes from other free software projects or creators.

jpmkm said:
GNU software was not designed for use with the linux kernel. Most of the standard GNU utilities were written(in at least one form or another) before linux existed. Linux would not be here(in it's current form, at least) if the GNU utilities had not been in place in 1991.
Click to expand...
 
Whatsisname said:
many of the official GNU software yes, however there are shitloads of programs and other libraries packaged into cygwin that are not offical GNU packages, and the majority of cygwins software comes from other free software projects or creators.
Click to expand...
I understand that. I was simply pointing out that GNU software was not originally designed for use with linux as you had stated.
 
Whatsisname said:
duby229 you need to learn how to spell, there and their are two different words.
Click to expand...


Alright, this is the SECOND thread where I see you telling people to learn how to spell.

What are you? The grammar police? Or do you have some bet to see how many posts you can thread crap your hooked on phonics crap in?

This is [H] Forums, not [H] Spelling Bee.
 
Whatsisname said:
get your shit together. There is nothing DOS about WindowsXP.

Also, it seems obvious to most people that the utilities sysinternals makes should have been included with windows from the get go. The simple fact that they are not included goes to show that microsoft intends to restrict your usage. Unless you want to pay $250 bucks / machine or however much it is for the MS Resource kit.
Click to expand...

Nothing DOS about Windows XP except that I can run DOS applications and execute DOS commands in it :confused:

BTW, M$ acquired sysinternals, so those tools will either make it into Windows in one form or another or (more likely) be offered up on the download site such as PowerToys are.
 
duby229 said:
I dont want to be too big a prick, but I gotta say it......

Do you know what the mach kernel is? And do you know what IBM did with it? And do you know the agreement MS had with IBM in devoloping their version of it? And do youknow what happened to that agreement?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how that's relevant to the topic.

Sorry but DOS is dead.... It has been since 6.22.... Yes MS has a terminal emulator. But it's crippled. It only gives you the facilities that rae already included in the crippled GUI. And no it doesnt even come close to what CSH, BASH, or ZSH is capable of.... In thinking so you have succumbed to MS mind washing.... Some prefer to call it dillusions.
Click to expand...

I never even pretended to claim that XP's terminal emulation was capable of what CSH or BASH is, but it most certainly is robust enough for me to do 90% of my job at the command line (including using si tools) which includes supporting over 5000 WinXP workstations in 23 different states.

It's kinda like being told all yourlife that the color blue is green.... If rthat is all you know then to you blue really is green..... Whether you believe it or not it's still a dillusion.

Another example is being told all your life that MS is as capable as anything else..... We know that is BS, but if that is all you know, then it will betrue to you, but in REALITY..... It's just a dillusion.

You might want to consider looking back in history and seeing how the OS's have developed.... Specific interest in OS2, and Windows NT..... That will give a much better idea of the reality of the current situation we find ourselves in......
Click to expand...

So I'm posting from Linux but I'm apparently brainwashed by Microsoft :confused: Now you're just turning this into a non-sensical rant.

Since we're on the topic of the history of technology and you decided to make it personal, how old are you and how long have you been in the IT industry?
 
to the O.P.

what is so special about linux?


no other operating system comes even CLOSE to causing fistfights the way this one does.
 
You guys suck. There is a way to cordially have a discussion regarding the merits of an OS, and there is what you are doing now.

Please continue...
 
jimmyb said:
You guys suck. There is a way to cordially have a discussion regarding the merits of an OS, and there is what you are doing now.

Please continue...
Click to expand...


thank you for the useless post... :p
 
Stellar said:
Nothing DOS about Windows XP except that I can run DOS applications and execute DOS commands in it :confused:
Click to expand...

DOS commands in WinXP?? You mean DOS-like commands.

what about DELOLDOS, DEVICEHIGH or DOSSHELL...

can I boot in DOS and type 'win' ?? will Windows startup.. cause I swear that is how I started win3.0 back in the day? hmmm

DOS does not exist in WinXP... its MS-DOSlike.. there is a differenct
 
lol this sort of shit has gone on for much longer than linux has existed.

nameless_centurian said:
to the O.P.

what is so special about linux?


no other operating system comes even CLOSE to causing fistfights the way this one does.
Click to expand...
 
it's dos about the same way Wine is Windows, and in fact many DOS applications will NOT run in windows NT*.

Stellar said:
Nothing DOS about Windows XP except that I can run DOS applications and execute DOS commands in it :confused:

BTW, M$ acquired sysinternals, so those tools will either make it into Windows in one form or another or (more likely) be offered up on the download site such as PowerToys are.
Click to expand...
 
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