What is special about linux

[As I Lay Dying]

Hmm, that's funny, SP2 came with a shitload of drivers that are hmm. not 6 years old. But even then, how fucking hard is it to pop in a disk or a disc and run a setup routine that takes less tham 2 minutes? I've had to installl drivers on various linux boxes and it's a bit more painful.

ummm.... while I agree it, also depends.......for example the nvida drivers from the ubuntu repo, is two lines, in terminal, sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx, sudo nvidia-glx-enable......so it depends, and the official nvidia driver is pretty simple to get it working to install.

 

[duby229]

Hmm, that's funny, SP2 came with a shitload of drivers that are hmm. not 6 years old. But even then, how fucking hard is it to pop in a disk or a disc and run a setup routine that takes less tham 2 minutes? I've had to installl drivers on various linux boxes and it's a bit more painful.

Yeah how hard is it to go to 16 web sites, then find all of the drivers, and support software, reboot on each one, then figure out why your getting blue screens.... Then have to do it all over again after you finally realized that one of those pakages, god only knows which one corrupted you windows folder.....

Simple really....

Or you can take the time to run "make menuconfig" and do it right in one simple interface. Then for graphics "emerge -va nvidia-glx" Yep I suppose that is a bit harder.... Or not?

 

[RancidWAnnaRIot]

Yeah how hard is it to go to 16 web sites, then find all of the drivers, and support software, reboot on each one, then figure out why your getting blue screens.... Then have to do it all over again after you finally realized that one of those pakages, god only knows which one corrupted you windows folder.....

Simple really....

Or you can take the time to run "make menuconfig" and do it right in one simple interface. Then for graphics "emerge -va nvidia-glx" Yep I suppose that is a bit harder.... Or not?

what's emerge -va nvidia-glx ?

 

[As I Lay Dying]

its the gentoo command to install the nvidia propitiatory drivers.

 

[Stellar]

This guy can't possibly be trying to pass off Gentoo as easier to setup than Windows.

 

[duby229]

This guy can't possibly be trying to pass off Gentoo as easier to setup than Windows.

Is it not? Since the release of GLI, and the ever increasing wonders of Portage....

Windows can't hold a lick.

Besides I thought we're talking about hardware? Yes setting up hardware in Gentoo is about 1000 times easier. All you need is "make menuconfig" All your hardware in one simple easy to use interface. It really dont get much easier then that.

 

[BinarySynapse]

Yeah how hard is it to go to 16 web sites, then find all of the drivers, and support software, reboot on each one, then figure out why your getting blue screens.... Then have to do it all over again after you finally realized that one of those pakages, god only knows which one corrupted you windows folder.....

Simple really....

Or you can take the time to run "make menuconfig" and do it right in one simple interface. Then for graphics "emerge -va nvidia-glx" Yep I suppose that is a bit harder.... Or not?

I don't have to go to 16 websites to download drivers. I get them on disc with my purchase. If there isn't a disc then Windows detects it and installs a generic driver (my 1394 card for instance) I've never once had a BSOD in Windows XP. I've seen them on other people PC's but it's was usually something they cause by mucking around in things they shouldn't, or installing programs they shouldn't.

Now if I wanted the most up to date drivers I can get, then yeah I have to website hopping, but it's the same for linux until the next kernel release.

 

[RancidWAnnaRIot]

Yeah how hard is it to go to 16 web sites, then find all of the drivers, and support software, reboot on each one, then figure out why your getting blue screens.... Then have to do it all over again after you finally realized that one of those pakages, god only knows which one corrupted you windows folder.....

Simple really....

Or you can take the time to run "make menuconfig" and do it right in one simple interface. Then for graphics "emerge -va nvidia-glx" Yep I suppose that is a bit harder.... Or not?

yo're definatly making windows XP sound more unstable than it really is... as a matter of a fact.. i can't remember the last tiem i got a BSOD.. and i've never had trouble with drivers...

 

[Farva]

wow, i cant believe this thread hasnt been locked yet. there really is no true dialog anymore (i cant remember from the beginning). i vote for the thread to be locked before we start a fire

 

[RancidWAnnaRIot]

wow, i cant believe this thread hasnt been locked yet. there really is no true dialog anymore (i cant remember from the beginning). i vote for the thread to be locked before we start a fire

I'm all about fires

 

[gurgle]

Gnomebaker is so much better then Nero its not even funny.

 

[duby229]

I think it's funny.As soon as it gets pointed out that Linux has better, and easier device support then windows, you guys start calling for the thread to get locked.... Almost as if you guys are trying to protect some kind of secret....

Well the secret will be out of the bag soon. Get used to it.

 

[RancidWAnnaRIot]

I think it's funny.As soon as it gets pointed out that Linux has better, and easier device support then windows, you guys start calling for the thread to get locked.... Almost as if you guys are trying to protect some kind of secret....

Well the secret will be out of the bag soon. Get used to it.

who's you guys? not me i'm sure..

second.. with that post alone.. you're basically trying to start a flame war.. so you're the one that's probably gonna ge tthe thread locked..

 

[BinarySynapse]

I think it's funny.As soon as it gets pointed out that Linux has better, and easier device support then windows, you guys start calling for the thread to get locked.... Almost as if you guys are trying to protect some kind of secret....

Well the secret will be out of the bag soon. Get used to it.

I think it's funny that everytime Windows is brought up against Linux (or vice versa) you jump in with your Anti-MS campaigne making Windows out to be MUCH worse than it is. It's like you had one bad experience with WIndows ME on your mom's HP, but XP is much much better.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

ummm....I would like to say this depending, linux hardware can be harder or easier, your kernel can automatically detect everything, and it will work much easier then windows, using a repo to get non-free drivers, easier, having to look and download and run an installer, well thats the same as windows, finally using something like ndiswrapper with a windows wireless card driver, well thats harder then the windows method.

Windows can be very stable in the right hands (prolly never at the same level of linux in the right hands), and linux can be really unstable in the wrong hands. That being said, both have their uses, even though I spend 99% of my time in linux.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

I think it's funny that everytime Windows is brought up against Linux (or vice versa) you jump in with your Anti-MS campaigne making Windows out to be MUCH worse than it is. It's like you had one bad experience with WIndows ME on your mom's HP, but XP is much much better.

In all fairness windows me was the worst os ever, that would sour anyone from windows. I spent every other day trying to get a roommates windows me box to work, not crash, bsod, or kill the network, eventually we decided that we would just banned him from doing anything other then surfing the interweb, even then, ugh....... for a computer science student he was a dumb ass, but in a slight defense of windows me, he once received a file over msn, which was a 'screen saver', yeah turned out to be a virus. I have no idea what he was thinking.

 

[BinarySynapse]

In all fairness windows me was the worst os ever, that would sour anyone from windows. I spent every other day trying to get a roommates windows me box to work, not crash, bsod, or kill the network, eventually we decided that we would just banned him from doing anything other then surfing the interweb, even then, ugh....... for a computer science student he was a dumb ass, but in a slight defense of windows me, he once received a file over msn, which was a 'screen saver', yeah turned out to be a virus. I have no idea what he was thinking.

That's why I said WIndows ME. Although I've had stable Windows ME boxes before. But it was a pain in the ass to make it stable.

 

[duby229]

That's why I said WIndows ME. Although I've had stable Windows ME boxes before. But it was a pain in the ass to make it stable.

I was never able to get ME to install... It always blue screened on detecting hardware... So much for that theory.

Listen I dont have anything against Windows. Some people like it, and that is fine. But saying that Windows is better then Linux is like saying yellow is better then pizza..

It's not even a comparison. They are two completely different things. Just as how you cant eat yellow.... You cant use windows either..... The two just simply arent comparable.

So stop trying to pass off Windows as being better. You can feel free to say it has it's purpose, but please dont kid yourself into thinking anything more then that.... Anything more then that is just FUD and propaganda.

 

[BinarySynapse]

I was never able to get ME to install... It always blue screened on detecting hardware... So much for that theory.

Listen I dont have anything against Windows. Some people like it, and that is fine. But saying that Windows is better then Linux is like saying yellow is better then pizza..

It's not even a comparison. They are two completely different things. Just as how you cant eat yellow.... You cant use windows either..... The two just simply arent comparable.

So stop trying to pass off Windows as being better. You can feel free to say it has it's purpose, but please dont kid yourself into thinking anything more then that.... Anything more then that is just FUD and propaganda.

yellow and pizza. hmm, one's a color, and ones a food item. Windows and Linux hmm. Ones an OS and the other is a.... wait a minute... an OS. They are comparable because they do the SAME thing they OPERATE A SYSTEM. Talk about spreading FUD and propaganda.


Even if I did say it had its purpose you'd go about saying that the purpose would be better suited in Linux. Maybe you should go about explaining why I can't use Windows? I've had few problems with it that were actually Windows related. Most of my problems have been from crappy third party development. I've also had my fair share of problem in Linux. I'm not saying Windows is better than Linux, but on the same note, Linux is not better than Windows. If it were then it'd have taken over the Desktop OS market by now.

 

[duby229]

yellow and pizza. hmm, one's a color, and ones a food item. Windows and Linux hmm. Ones an OS and the other is a.... wait a minute... an OS. They are comparable because they do the SAME thing they OPERATE A SYSTEM. Talk about spreading FUD and propaganda.


Even if I did say it had its purpose you'd go about saying that the purpose would be better suited in Linux. Maybe you should go about explaining why I can't use Windows? I've had few problems with it that were actually Windows related. Most of my problems have been from crappy third party development. I've also had my fair share of problem in Linux. I'm not saying Windows is better than Linux, but on the same note, Linux is not better than Windows. If it were then it'd have taken over the Desktop OS market by now.

OK, I'll try to explain this as simple as possible.....

Yes they both operate a system of hardware, and provide an environment for software to run in. But they focus there attention on two very different things.

1: Windows is almost entirely GUI driven. You can only fit so much information on one screen.. Becouse of this GUI's are inherently limited in what they can do.... As a matter of fact the ONLY thing you can do, is what the GUI gives you the options to do.... That is it..... It is therefore unusable, it uses you. You dont use it, it uses you. Windows is unusable becouse it was designed to restrict you. It was designed to limit the capability odf your computer, it was designed to ONLY do what MS wants you to do.

2: Linux distributions are largely command line driven. Most of them also have a functional GUI, as well, but ALL have a fully functional CLI. By it's very nature a CLI application is limitless.... You can take one command and pipe it to another, and perform operations on the output, and do some really cool shit... Things that are impossible in windows.... You see in linux, their is no limitations at all. I can use my computer how I want to.... Not how MS wants me to.

 

[Tetrahedron]

OK, I'll try to explain this as simple as possible.....

Yes they both operate a system of hardware, and provide an environment for software to run in. But they focus there attention on two very different things.

1: Windows is almost entirely GUI driven. You can only fit so much information on one screen.. Becouse of this GUI's are inherently limited in what they can do.... As a matter of fact the ONLY thing you can do, is what the GUI gives you the options to do.... That is it..... It is therefore unusable, it uses you. You dont use it, it uses you. Windows is unusable becouse it was designed to restrict you. It was designed to limit the capability odf your computer, it was designed to ONLY do what MS wants you to do.

2: Linux distributions are largely command line driven. Most of them also have a functional GUI, as well, but ALL have a fully functional CLI. By it's very nature a CLI application is limitless.... You can take one command and pipe it to another, and perform operations on the output, and do some really cool shit... Things that are impossible in windows.... You see in linux, their is no limitations at all. I can use my computer how I want to.... Not how MS wants me to.

^^ what he said!

 

[BinarySynapse]

OK, I'll try to explain this as simple as possible.....

Yes they both operate a system of hardware, and provide an environment for software to run in. But they focus there attention on two very different things.

1: Windows is almost entirely GUI driven. You can only fit so much information on one screen.. Becouse of this GUI's are inherently limited in what they can do.... As a matter of fact the ONLY thing you can do, is what the GUI gives you the options to do.... That is it..... It is therefore unusable, it uses you. You dont use it, it uses you. Windows is unusable becouse it was designed to restrict you. It was designed to limit the capability odf your computer, it was designed to ONLY do what MS wants you to do.

2: Linux distributions are largely command line driven. Most of them also have a functional GUI, as well, but ALL have a fully functional CLI. By it's very nature a CLI application is limitless.... You can take one command and pipe it to another, and perform operations on the output, and do some really cool shit... Things that are impossible in windows.... You see in linux, their is no limitations at all. I can use my computer how I want to.... Not how MS wants me to.

finally something you said makes sense.

However, Windows wasn't designed to limit you. In fact it's getting more and more features (some call it bloat) every new version. For instance. Load up Windows 3.1 and Windows XP and tell me which one is more limited. If what you say is true than XP would have very few options compared to Win3.1.

However CLI has its disadvantages. "What was that switch again." <Ctril-F2> <man gcc> <Ctril-F1> <gcc ...>
Whereas with a GUI you have all the available options right there in front of you some it's just more intuitive <Alt T> <Compiler Options> <Compile with x optimisations.> <OK> <Compile>

 

[duby229]

finally something you said makes sense.

However, Windows wasn't designed to limit you. In fact it's getting more and more features (some call it bloat) every new version. For instance. Load up Windows 3.1 and Windows XP and tell me which one is more limited. If what you say is true than XP would have very few options compared to Win3.1.

However CLI has its disadvantages. "What was that switch again." <Ctril-F2> <man gcc> <Ctril-F1> <gcc ...>
Whereas with a GUI you have all the available options right there in front of you some it's just more intuitive <Alt T> <Compiler Options> <Compile with x optimisations.> <OK> <Compile>

I guess if you dont want to learn what your computer is actually capable of,and your happy using the restrctions that MS forces on you, then that is the what you need to do... But that is it's only purpose. Becouse you are unwilling to learn the power of your computer, does NOT make Windows better. Like I said, it's kinda like comparing yellow to pizza.

 

[BinarySynapse]

I guess if you dont want to learn what your computer is actually capable of,and your happy using the restrctions that MS forces on you, then that is the what you need to do... But that is it's only purpose. Becouse you are unwilling to learn the power of your computer, does NOT make Windows better. Like I said, it's kinda like comparing yellow to pizza.

Quit putting words into my mouth. I'm not saying that Windows is better.

And to say I'm unwilling to learn "the power of my computer" or learn anything is offensive.

And still your analogy is flawed. Yellow is a color, pizza is a food tiem. Windows and Linux are both operating systems that do the same things albeit in different ways.

Yellow cannot fill you stomach, and Pizza cannot paint your walls.

Maybe if you said it's like comparing a Yugo to a Lexus it'd make more sense since those are both automobiles that have the same function. The Lexus just does it better. (I'm not conceding that Linux or Windows is better)

 

[duby229]

Quit putting words into my mouth. I'm not saying that Windows is better.

And to say I'm unwilling to learn "the power of my computer" or learn anything is offensive.

And still your analogy is flawed. Yellow is a color, pizza is a food tiem. Windows and Linux are both operating systems that do the same things albeit in different ways.

Yellow cannot fill you stomach, and Pizza cannot paint your walls.

Maybe if you said it's like comparing a Yugo to a Lexus it'd make more sense since those are both automobiles that have the same function. The Lexus just does it better. (I'm not conceding that Linux or Windows is better)

No it's completely accurate. Just like you canteat yellow, you cant use windows....

Linux gives me the power to use my computer.Windows does not. It really is that simple. I thought I explained this pretty well above.

 

[BinarySynapse]

No it's completely accurate. Just like you canteat yellow, you cant use windows....

Linux gives me the power to use my computer.Windows does not. It really is that simple. I thought I explained this pretty well above.

Maybe YOU can't use Windows. But because it make you sick to your stomach, boils your blood, and frys your cat doesn't mean that OTHERS can't use it to do what they need. O/S's contribute very little to the "power of your computer". After that it's all the skill of the operator. And it's sounding more and more like your Windows issue are PEBKAC related.

 

[Gatticus]

My point proven. Thanks for playing.

The prosecution rests.

And by the way, in case you forgot what you were saying (which you did), you were talking about Gnome, not X.

Wow, that was really "mature".

 

[duby229]

Maybe YOU can't use Windows. But because it make you sick to your stomach, boils your blood, and frys your cat doesn't mean that OTHERS can't use it to do what they need. O/S's contribute very little to the "power of your computer". After that it's all the skill of the operator. And it's sounding more and more like your Windows issue are PEBKAC related.

I guess I'll have to let you continue to dillude yourself....

You know dillusions are the first step to phsychological breakdown? It's true that we all have a certain amount of dillusions... For example what we think is pretty, or what we think tastes good, or what we think is funny... All dillusions.... But when dillusions start to interfere with logic, that is the first step.

 

[BinarySynapse]

I guess I'll have to let you continue to dillude yourself....

You know dillusions are the first step to phsychological breakdown? It's true that we all have a certain amount of dillusions... For example what we think is pretty, or what we think tastes good, or what we think is funny... All dillusions.... But when dillusions start to interfere with logic, that is the first step.

You want Logic? Here you go

Given that:
1 Windows does what I need it to AND
2. Linux does what I need it to
THen I must assume that neither Windows nor Linux is better than the other.

Given that:
1. Windows allow me to play my favorite games. AND
2. Linux does not allow to play ALL my favorite games AND.
3. Windows has major security shortcomings that require more attantion than they should. AND
4 Linux's security, once properly configured, is no longer a concern for the most part AND
Then I must assume neither Windows nor Linux is perfect.

Nope don't see a problem with my logic. And those are not all inclusive just examples that I am capable of using logic.

Given that:
1. You've stated that I am dillusional AND
2. You've stated that my dillusions have interefered with my logical abilities AND
3. I've shown two example of logic that don't seem to be flawed.
Then, based on the premise that 3 is true, either 1 or 2 must be incorrect.
If 1 is correct, and 2 is incorrect, then you must not know what you are talking about
If 2 is coorect and 1 is incoorect, then you must not know what you are talking about.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

You said that if linux were better then it woul have a bigger desktop market, ummm I would like to point out there have been several examples were better products were bested by inferior products, classic example beta vs vhs.

 

[BinarySynapse]

You said that if linux were better then it woul have a bigger desktop market, ummm I would like to point out there have been several examples were better products were bested by inferior products, classic example beta vs vhs.

I should have said if it were SO much better as duby keeps trying to push.

However there were a few contributing factors to Betamax not winning that war. For example licensing, royalites, and whatever else Sony did to try to squeeze every bit of money out of their format. Same thing happened to IBM's MCA bus for the same reasons.
As well as Nintendo.

But Linux has no price gouging licensing scheme like they did. In fact Windows should be losing market share because Linux is free (for the most part)

 

[As I Lay Dying]

oooohhhh btw off hand, linux gaiz, who want x-fi cards, apparently creative will release alsa drivers, according to creative open source. Here is the news blurb.

May 18, 2006 -- Creative plans to make proprietary (closed source) drivers available for the X-Fi series of sound cards in the second quarter of 2007. These drivers will have full support for ALSA (playback, recording, mixer, MIDI, synthesis) and OpenAL 1.1 (with EAX effects).

source, http://opensource.creative.com/

 

[As I Lay Dying]

I should have said if it were SO much better as duby keeps trying to push.

However there were a few contributing factors to Betamax not winning that war. For example licensing, royalites, and whatever else Sony did to try to squeeze every bit of money out of their format. Same thing happened to IBM's MCA bus for the same reasons.
As well as Nintendo.

But Linux has no price gouging licensing scheme like they did. In fact Windows should be losing market share because Linux is free (for the most part)

Ummm......in all fairness, the first linux kernel was created in 91. The only operating systems in the market were really, microsoft and the apple os. Microsoft, has greater hardware driver support. In the long run, when push comes to shove, its hard to overtake a market where one OS has prolly 95%+ of the market.

First people have to get accustomed to a new os, often very difficult, and the lack of hardware support.

 

[Stellar]

OK, I'll try to explain this as simple as possible.....

Yes they both operate a system of hardware, and provide an environment for software to run in. But they focus there attention on two very different things.

1: Windows is almost entirely GUI driven. You can only fit so much information on one screen.. Becouse of this GUI's are inherently limited in what they can do.... As a matter of fact the ONLY thing you can do, is what the GUI gives you the options to do.... That is it..... It is therefore unusable, it uses you. You dont use it, it uses you. Windows is unusable becouse it was designed to restrict you. It was designed to limit the capability odf your computer, it was designed to ONLY do what MS wants you to do.

2: Linux distributions are largely command line driven. Most of them also have a functional GUI, as well, but ALL have a fully functional CLI. By it's very nature a CLI application is limitless.... You can take one command and pipe it to another, and perform operations on the output, and do some really cool shit... Things that are impossible in windows.... You see in linux, their is no limitations at all. I can use my computer how I want to.... Not how MS wants me to.

First and foremost this is a round-robbin completely subjective argument you are making.. it goes back to the age old KDE vs. GNOME argument. Useability and modularity both have advantages which present themselves best given the end user situation. So far it just so happens that useability wins out when the majority of users of the operating computer systems spend 80% of their time running 20% of the code.

Simply put, the majority of users use only a minority of OS and hardware features and aiming your applications and interfaces toward useability leverages that.

An example is, you don't build a dash like a Boieng 747 into a Kia Spectra. It's overcomplicated and only serves to obviscate the user of the vehicle to the features that they primarily need.

Also to address your bullets

1)
- Windows is still DOS-based, not entirely GUI driven. I use the command line in Windows at work as much as I use the console in Linux at home. If you are not familiar with sysinternals, they make 100s of absolutely awesome tools that are primarily command line based for everything from monitoring registry activity to sniffing packets on your LAN.
- "It is therefore unusable..." Not useable? The whole point of the GUI and the "desktop metaphor" is to increase useability. "...it uses you." I have no idea what you mean by that.

2)
- CLI is certainly not limitless. You are absolutely limited by the commands that your shell provides, that were written for you by developers long, long ago.
- You can pipe commands and redirect output in DOS just the same as is done on a *nix CLI. Apparently you are ignorant of some facets of Windows that have existed since its beginning.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

sorry but isnt dos emulated now in windows.............??? so technically xp is gui driven but does command line emulation if I am not mistaken.

 

[Stellar]

sorry but isnt dos emulated now in windows.............??? so technically xp is gui driven but does command line emulation if I am not mistaken.

That is correct.

Also, you can still boot to the console in any of the newer Windows OSs.

 

[BinarySynapse]

That is correct.

Also, you can still boot to the console in any of the newer Windows OSs.

there's even a Unix like CLI that utilizes many *nix commands for Windows called Cygwin. Not sure about MingW, but I think it's a CLI too, may just be a compiler environment though.

 

[RancidWAnnaRIot]

there's even a Unix like CLI that utilizes many *nix commands for Windows called Cygwin. Not sure about MingW, but I think it's a CLI too, may just be a compiler environment though.

yea i use Cygwin to remotly log into computers at me school.. so i can use design software... i get a shitty connections..

 

[RancidWAnnaRIot]

are there distros of linux that do automatic updating and stuff?? like windows XP does?

when i fiddle with it.. you basically had to update your kernel and other shit yourself..

 

[jpmkm]

are there distros of linux that do automatic updating and stuff?? like windows XP does?

when i fiddle with it.. you basically had to update your kernel and other shit yourself..

I know ubuntu does. You can set it to automatically update, notify you of updates, or don't check at all. Anything that you installed through ubuntu's package manager will get updated, including the kernel. You don't have to compile your own kernel or anything like that.