What Happened to All the Expandable AIO's?

Zarathustra[H]

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So,

My stepsons H110i GTX is starting to act up. The pump is running full speed (as judged by RPM values) but floew seems impeded as one hose gets really hot and the other stays cold.

So, time to replace that thing.

The way my brain works is, whenever something stops working, it's time for an upgrade.

I'm not quite sure he is ready for, or has the patience for a custom water loop, but I was thinking one of those expandable AIO's would be a good idea.

First I went looking for the Swiftech H220x and H280x. Gone, discontinued. Bummer.

Then I remembered that EK used to have one called the Predator. Gone, discontinued.

Alphacool maybe? Wasn't their Eisbaer expandable? OK, so those still exist. They don't seem as impressive though, and at this rate, who knows if there will still be expandable parts for them by the time we decide to do so?

What are your thoughts on this? Are there any other models I should be aware of? Or is it best to pass on the expandables and just go with a regular AIO, or air cooler?
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Does he need an AIO -- a Noctua NH-D15 is 90% of most AIO cooler's in terms of perf and will run forever given the fans don't give out.
That's certainly an option. I like to exhaust heat outside the case to avoid CPU heat negatively impacting the GPU, but for his application it may not be strictly necessary.
 
D

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That's certainly an option. I like to exhaust heat outside the case to avoid CPU heat negatively impacting the GPU, but for his application it may not be strictly necessary.
Yeah I get that. I never know how to orient the water cooler. Do I have a drawing air in the fresh air from the outside and then bring that hot air into the case or do I have it exhausting where ambient air from within the case is going over the radiator and blowing out I think it’s like a lose lose
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Corsair AIOs have a 5 year warranty and a quick google search looks like the cooler was only released 4 years ago so it should be covered.
Wow, did not expect that, but you are right.

Thanks for the heads up. Now I'll have to find something for him to use while I RMA it.

upload_2019-7-21_21-42-12.png
 

Aluminum

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Does he need an AIO -- a Noctua NH-D15 is 90% of most AIO cooler's in terms of perf and will run forever given the fans don't give out.
I'm in this camp, generally fuck AIOs.

Also more like 90-150%, since good air coolers outperform mid-tier AIOs :) The best AIOs will win, but never be as reliable.

The best air would keep a computer running even if the fans die, modern cpu will throttle down but won't shut off like they would with a dead pump and a tiny waterblock.
 

somebrains

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Grab a 212 black, used single fan Noctua, be quiet, whatever is on your cl cheap, cryorig as long as you don't need AM4.

Keep something around just in case.

Guys I know with open loops end up keeping an air cooler and their stock GPU fan setup in case of pump failure, res cracks, etc failure.

At least with an aio you can run to Best Buy or something and get back up that day. Open loop parts aren't always readily available locally, depending on where you live.

The expandable aio idea is great until ooen loop issues become a problem. Arguably cheapie parts makes the upcharge of those expandable aios less attractive bc mostly you aren't getting the full function of an aio, and aluminum parts to expand your loop aren't as plentiful as copper/plated.
 

Anh N.

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Personally, I like the idea of air cooler, and the reliability. But I hate the aesthetic of it, so bulky and heavy.
 
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SeymourGore

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That Eisbaer Extreme 280mm looks impressive (and huge). Been toying with the idea of selling my H110i and replacing it with a Eisbaer 240 or 360 AIO with the thought of connecting it to one of their GPU blocks later on.

Personally, I think the included tubing of those units (with the quick connect fittings) are kinda plain, but that's also what I kinda like about them.
 
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5150Joker

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You can go on Ali express and buy a Chinese made waterblock, radiator, fittings and pump with soft tubing for like $100-150. Given how cheap do it yourself WC is now, I would never choose an inferior AIO.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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You can go on Ali express and buy a Chinese made waterblock, radiator, fittings and pump with soft tubing for like $100-150. Given how cheap do it yourself WC is now, I would never choose an inferior AIO.
Lol. I trust nothing Chinese, and would never buy anything on Alibaba or Ali Express. Now there's a good way to get your identity stolen :p
 

Mchart

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You can go on Ali express and buy a Chinese made waterblock, radiator, fittings and pump with soft tubing for like $100-150. Given how cheap do it yourself WC is now, I would never choose an inferior AIO.
Because the 'inferior' AIO's are literally buy and forget. The most you have to do is swap out the socket type bracket, and re-apply thermal paste.
 

Dan_D

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Because the 'inferior' AIO's are literally buy and forget. The most you have to do is swap out the socket type bracket, and re-apply thermal paste.
I've got custom water on my test bench. I do not use it in my own system. I'm running a 360 AIO and it's able to tame Threadripper, the Core i9 9900K, etc. When you can overclock a Core i9 9900K on an higher end AIO, custom water cooling is less attractive. Honestly, the big reason I'd go with the custom water cooling at this point is because I like the look of it.
 

5150Joker

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I've got custom water on my test bench. I do not use it in my own system. I'm running a 360 AIO and it's able to tame Threadripper, the Core i9 9900K, etc. When you can overclock a Core i9 9900K on an higher end AIO, custom water cooling is less attractive. Honestly, the big reason I'd go with the custom water cooling at this point is because I like the look of it.
Not a chance an aio keeps up with a competently built custom wc with a 9900k, especially if you OC. In addition, you can add gpu blocks into a custom loop where you'd need two ugly aios for the cpu/gpu. AIO is fine for most people and I ran one for a long time but they don't match well built custom loops.
 

Mchart

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Not a chance an aio keeps up with a competently built custom wc with a 9900k, especially if you OC. In addition, you can add gpu blocks into a custom loop where you'd need two ugly aios for the cpu/gpu. AIO is fine for most people and I ran one for a long time but they don't match well built custom loops.
A standard 280mm/360mm AIO is just fine for standard overclocks on a 9900k.
 

5150Joker

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A standard 280mm/360mm AIO is just fine for standard overclocks on a 9900k.
With AVX matching clocks? No its not unless you turn avx down. Even with custom dual rad wc you hit upper 80s in heavy loads that utilize avx at 5 ghz.
 

Mchart

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With AVX matching clocks? No its not unless you turn avx down. Even with custom dual rad wc you hit upper 80s in heavy loads that utilize avx at 5 ghz.
Let me tell you the last time I cared about whatever that is you are talking about on my gaming rig.

Never.

I throw an AIO on, do some average overclocking, (Although with Zen 2 it doesn't), and go play some AssCreed, or whatever.

I'm sure if you build a system that is specifically a dyno queen build you want more than an AIO, but the average user just doesn't need a custom setup.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I've got custom water on my test bench. I do not use it in my own system. I'm running a 360 AIO and it's able to tame Threadripper, the Core i9 9900K, etc. When you can overclock a Core i9 9900K on an higher end AIO, custom water cooling is less attractive. Honestly, the big reason I'd go with the custom water cooling at this point is because I like the look of it.
I got the same clocks back when I used that H110i GTX as I do today with my big custom loop. My temps were higher then, but the overclocks remained the same.

My main motivation for the custom loop is that the extra radiator capacity allows me to run the fans more slowly, which means a quieter system. The Corsair fans on the H110i GTX went up to 100% at load, and they were absolute screamers.

Also, the GPU temps are where I really see a huge difference performance wise. If I crank up the fans to full speed, on a cool (68F?) day, I can run my Pascal Titan X at full load and full overclock, and never hit above 24C, which is nuts. I have never noticed any performance benefit by cooling to below 40C though, so I set the auto fan speed to control the loop temp to 33C, this keeps the GPU to ~37-38C in most titles, sometimes up to 39, which gives me just as good boost clocks as running it cooler, but allows those fans to stay quieter.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Let me tell you the last time I cared about whatever that is you are talking about on my gaming rig.

Never.

I throw an AIO on, do some average overclocking, (Although with Zen 2 it doesn't), and go play some AssCreed, or whatever.

I'm sure if you build a system that is specifically a dyno queen build you want more than an AIO, but the average user just doesn't need a custom setup.
Let me tell you, there is a lot more to computers than just some silly games, and a lot of those workloads will cause you to crash in a hurry if you aren't fully stable. That's why we test on the worst case, so no matter what we throw at it it is stable.
 

5150Joker

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Let me tell you the last time I cared about whatever that is you are talking about on my gaming rig.

Never.

I throw an AIO on, do some average overclocking, (Although with Zen 2 it doesn't), and go play some AssCreed, or whatever.

I'm sure if you build a system that is specifically a dyno queen build you want more than an AIO, but the average user just doesn't need a custom setup.
Hate to break it to you but a lot of new games utilize AVX. So if you clock AVX down while keeping the mults at 50, your game clocks will operate at AVX speeds. Custom WC may not mean as much with Zen 2 unless you want to cool the gpu as well (which most of us do) but on a 9900k@5ghz with AVX to match things get hot fast under 100% loads.

Like Zarathustra[H] my Pascal Titan X at 2ghz never crosses 45C at full load in games like Apex while my 9900k@5ghz stays in the 30-50C range depending on cpu load. If the application demands 100% load with AVX, the temperature climb to the 80s on extended load times but that's because the IHS is ineffecient and not delidded. Those that delid gain another 10-15C on a custom loop.

Finally to me, a custom hardline loop is very pleasing to look at. My latest build:

eXwCDII.jpg
 
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Mchart

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Let me tell you, there is a lot more to computers than just some silly games, and a lot of those workloads will cause you to crash in a hurry if you aren't fully stable. That's why we test on the worst case, so no matter what we throw at it it is stable.
I've never had any issues. Even the most demanding games the AIO handles it just fine and keeps things under 75c.
 

doyll

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It has been proven over and over that CLCs ( factory sealed systems that are a sub-group of AIOs) are no better than top tier air coolers when both have same temp of airflow into their cooling fins. In fact at same noise levels very few CLCs can even match the temps a good air cooled setup gives.

Compound the above with higher cost of CLCs, their not lasting as long, and when they do die it's always the pump (meaning no CPU cooling so no system to use untill new cooler is installed) and a good air cooled setup clearly the bestt performance life, lowest cost and most dependable choice.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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It has been proven over and over that CLCs ( factory sealed systems that are a sub-group of AIOs) are no better than top tier air coolers when both have same temp of airflow into their cooling fins. In fact at same noise levels very few CLCs can even match the temps a good air cooled setup gives.

Compound the above with higher cost of CLCs, their not lasting as long, and when they do die it's always the pump (meaning no CPU cooling so no system to use untill new cooler is installed) and a good air cooled setup clearly the bestt performance life, lowest cost and most dependable choice.
The thing is this. What matters more than keeping the CPU cool and maximizing CPU performance?

Well, most people are GPU limited, so keeping the GPU cool and attaining max boost clocks is a much bigger deal than the CPU.

When you put an AIO cooler exhausting out of the case, you keep internal case temps much lower than even a system with crazy high airflow, thus you wind up with a cooler GPU that may boost higher more often.

So - to me - putting an AIO on Your CPU really has less to do with the CPU and more to do with the GPU.
 

doyll

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The thing is this. What matters more than keeping the CPU cool and maximizing CPU performance?

Well, most people are GPU limited, so keeping the GPU cool and attaining max boost clocks is a much bigger deal than the CPU.

When you put an AIO cooler exhausting out of the case, you keep internal case temps much lower than even a system with crazy high airflow, thus you wind up with a cooler GPU that may boost higher more often.

So - to me - putting an AIO on Your CPU really has less to do with the CPU and more to do with the GPU.
I agree most gaming systems have way more heat from GPU contaminating all components' cool air supply.

As for CPU cooler being a problem, most aftermarket CPU coolers are tower coolers (assuming case is designed toflow enough air for components needs) and tower coolers push their heated exhaust back into rear exhaust vent, so there is no problem with it's heated air affecting GPU cooling. I never have like downflow CPU coolers .. and if using one always reverse their airflow so the are pushing their heated air away instead of re-using their own heated airflow.

The problem us GPU generally dump heated exhaust in all directions comtaminating the cool airflow to everything including themselves .. which is why I remove all PCIe back slot covers to increase rear vent arae and thus imporve front to back airflow around GPU and giving it air closer to room ambient.
 

CMDR1337

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Personally, I like the idea of air cooler, and the reliability. But I hate the aesthetic of it, so bulky and heavy.
/agree
i have the thermal take p3 open air case and although i am using the amd prism cooler its not doing a great job.
an AIO would be nice but pretty expensive.
if i get the Noctua d15 with the chromax colored caps (or whatever they are calling them) it will look nice but
pretty much just as expensive as a mid range AIO.
 

doyll

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/agree
i have the thermal take p3 open air case and although i am using the amd prism cooler its not doing a great job.
an AIO would be nice but pretty expensive.
if i get the Noctua d15 with the chromax colored caps (or whatever they are calling them) it will look nice but
pretty much just as expensive as a mid range AIO.
Why pay more for something that won't as as long as lower cost competition? While CLC will be wearing otu in 3-6 years a NH-D15 will last so many years you will likely more on to something else just because you want something different, because it's life is way longer than tha 6 years. There are still people using the first NH-D14 and Silver Arrow coolers that came out way back in 2008-2009, and first rendition of Silver Arrow was named IFX-14 which came out in 2007. I'm still using Ultra 120 I got in 2005, but I did change the fan and have updated the mount a couple of times.
 

Anh N.

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Why pay more for something that won't as as long as lower cost competition? While CLC will be wearing otu in 3-6 years a NH-D15 will last so many years you will likely more on to something else just because you want something different, because it's life is way longer than tha 6 years. There are still people using the first NH-D14 and Silver Arrow coolers that came out way back in 2008-2009, and first rendition of Silver Arrow was named IFX-14 which came out in 2007. I'm still using Ultra 120 I got in 2005, but I did change the fan and have updated the mount a couple of times.
People pay more for stuffs because it looks better all the time (subjectively of course), regardless of reliability and/or performance. Personally, I would not go back to regular air cooler, just don't want that big chunk of metal covering up all of my mobo. I know it won't break, but also feel unease with the mobo bracket supporting that heavy cooler.
 

CMDR1337

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People pay more for stuffs because it looks better all the time (subjectively of course), regardless of reliability and/or performance. Personally, I would not go back to regular air cooler, just don't want that big chunk of metal covering up all of my mobo. I know it won't break, but also feel unease with the mobo bracket supporting that heavy cooler.
i agree with both you and Doyll

i started my build with the thought that i hated RGB (and i still do honestly) and the case was going into a ventilated closet. Then i saw the Thermaltake Core P3 TG Snow Edition on sale at MC and had to buy it.
then was upsold to the 3800x (only because the 3700x was not in stock) THAT came with the prism rgb cooler. so now i have rgb lights!
i just want to sell it and get the D15 but i still want some type of color theme. Black and White is what im going for.
20190720_141016.png
 

doyll

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Nice looking system! For black / white theme a be quiet! Dark Rock 4 would look nice, are quiet and cool well. Much lower priced is Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Power with a black top and black/white fan. It cools a couple degrees better at with same airflow as NH-D15 does. It's $50 on Amazon.com
 

Dan_D

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Hate to break it to you but a lot of new games utilize AVX. So if you clock AVX down while keeping the mults at 50, your game clocks will operate at AVX speeds. Custom WC may not mean as much with Zen 2 unless you want to cool the gpu as well (which most of us do) but on a 9900k@5ghz with AVX to match things get hot fast under 100% loads.

Like Zarathustra[H] my Pascal Titan X at 2ghz never crosses 45C at full load in games like Apex while my 9900k@5ghz stays in the 30-50C range depending on cpu load. If the application demands 100% load with AVX, the temperature climb to the 80s on extended load times but that's because the IHS is ineffecient and not delidded. Those that delid gain another 10-15C on a custom loop.

Finally to me, a custom hardline loop is very pleasing to look at. My latest build:

The hard lines do look good. I've been toying with the idea of doing that in my PC as I like the look so much. Unfortunately, I wonder if that could cause me issues given that I change my hardware so frequently. That's the biggest reason why I've stayed on AIO's and why if I do a custom loop, I think soft tubing is the way to go for me.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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The hard lines do look good. I've been toying with the idea of doing that in my PC as I like the look so much. Unfortunately, I wonder if that could cause me issues given that I change my hardware so frequently. That's the biggest reason why I've stayed on AIO's and why if I do a custom loop, I think soft tubing is the way to go for me.
The big reason I chose to go with soft tubing was that hard tube builds were still relatively new when I was planning mine, and the fittings made me nervous. The hard tube fittings look like they pull off way too easily.

My soft tubes on the other hand, you'd practically rip the tubing before you pulled it out of the compression fittings.

All that aside, I do like the hardtube look, and I wonder if there is less friction in the lines with hardtubes making loops built with them more efficient. In the grand scheme of things I don't send a lot of time looking at my system though, so the looks are not a huge priority.
 
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5150Joker

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The hard lines do look good. I've been toying with the idea of doing that in my PC as I like the look so much. Unfortunately, I wonder if that could cause me issues given that I change my hardware so frequently. That's the biggest reason why I've stayed on AIO's and why if I do a custom loop, I think soft tubing is the way to go for me.
Yes it will be a bit of a headache when changing parts as you have to drain the entire system and then re-do the hardline for that particular part (e.g. new GPU requiring a new line). But if you're used to hardline builds like I am and have the parts on hand (I always keep spares in the closet), it's relatively painless to cut a new line and shape it. The best part about hardline builds is you design it yourself from beginning to end on how you want the loop to look and its a great feeling when you're finally done building it and see it in real life. I'll probably build another one in a few years when Intel has their 10/7nm desktop parts out in full force. If there is one thing I could go back and change about my build, it's that I wish I had used a PCIe riser card so the GPU would be on it's side w/the RGB and water channels facing outward but I'll probably do that when I get the 3080 Ti.

As far as how hard they hold on to the line, once tightened, you really can't pull them off easily at all unless you put a lot of power into it so there's little chance of them coming off. Of course this is all dependent on which fittings you use and the person building it. If you do choose to go with soft tubing, pick a smaller case and make sure to use angled fittings so you don't have sag. Also, personally, I think the black thick soft tubes people use in small cases with angled fittings looks really good.

For example (I found this using a quick Google search), this is done with black EK ZMT soft tubing:
nch47eacro4z.jpg
 
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Zarathustra[H]

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So, has anyone here experienced Corsairs RMA process in the past?

I filed a RMA request 6 days ago. The automated email said I'd hear from them within two days. Thus far, crickets.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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. If there is one thing I could go back and change about my build, it's that I wish I had used a PCIe riser card so the GPU would be on it's side w/the RGB and water channels facing outward but I'll probably do that when I get the 3080 Ti.
I've seen people do this, and I have to wonder why.

I have had such bad experiences with flexible risers over the years that I would never use one in my main rig.
 

SeymourGore

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So, has anyone here experienced Corsairs RMA process in the past?

I filed a RMA request 6 days ago. The automated email said I'd hear from them within two days. Thus far, crickets.
Their response for an RMA I did last year was fast.

Ticket created 1/30/2018 and RMA approved on 2/01/2018.
 
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