What Everyone Is Too Polite to Say About Steve Jobs

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The author of this editorial is going to make a lot of Apple fans upset by pointing out all the bad things Steve Jobs was known for. Too soon? Thanks to [H] forum member Sly and everyone else that sent this one in.

One thing he wasn't, though, was perfect. Indeed there were things Jobs did while at Apple that were deeply disturbing. Rude, dismissive, hostile, spiteful: Apple employees—the ones not bound by confidentiality agreements—have had a different story to tell over the years about Jobs and the bullying, manipulation and fear that followed him around Apple.
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I've also heard that he didn't give to charities at all, which is pretty unheard of when you have as much money as he did.
 
I guess the biggest thing that has caught my ears recently with his passing is that he may have caused his own death.

When his cancer was detected, it's been reported that he tried to cure himself with a special diet for 9 to 10 months at which point the cancer might have spread. It was only then, after this length of time, at the urging of the board, did he opt for the surgery. I've seen a few things where his doctors have used the words, "Steve made choices" as in, he may have been responsible for his own death.
 
I still don't understand why people blame the CEOs and American business owners for the use of outside labor if the other country is allowing it to go on AND the workers are willing to do the work. It's like PETA's campaign against eating anything from animals. Their premise is based solely on the horrible TREATMENT of animals, that's why you shouldn't eat them. It's not the consumers fault for the horrible treatment of animals it's the upper management ALLOWING it to happen. I know Steve Jobs has done a lot of crappy things in his lifetime but starting off with him creating global problems because of the use of Chinese workers is plain ignorant and poor journalism. Go to a toy store and realize nothing is made in America anymore.
 
Even haters can't stop talking about him. He's doing a Deion Sanders' interception dance into the afterlife's endzone, starting at the 20 yard line.
 
Yeah, questionable company policies and shady outsourced production facilities aside, the fact that he damn near worked until the day he died is pretty disturbing. I mean, I guess I'd like to be able to do what I like for as long as I can too, but the guy has several young children...

The article left serval headliner examples of questionable behavior out too... Like taking a leave of absence due to a supposed hormonal imbalance only to reveal to everyone (including investors) once he'd returned that he had a transplant. Screwing Woz out of a $5,000 bonus on the Breakout job they did for Atari early on also comes to mind, Woz got paid like $400...

Seriously, the guy was definitely a visionary with good business sense and an eye for detail. The online distribution deals that he signed with the music industry and the app store model are a huge legacy, more so than any gadget, even Pixar will keep on trucking and making us laugh for years... But by most accounts he was a horrid co-worker and terribly immature for a long time.

I'm not gonna bag on his family life or whether or not he gave to charity because that's a personal thing tho, and the public will probably never have the whole story there either.
 
AFAIK he died of pancreatic cancer no? I dunno what operation he did or didn't put off, but the odds for surviving that are terrible regardless.
 
SixFootDuo said:
When his cancer was detected, it's been reported that he tried to cure himself with a special diet for 9 to 10 months at which point the cancer might have spread. It was only then, after this length of time, at the urging of the board, did he opt for the surgery. I've seen a few things where his doctors have used the words, "Steve made choices" as in, he may have been responsible for his own death.
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the famous Andy Kaufman healing method
 
Impulse said:
I'm not gonna bag on his family life or whether or not he gave to charity because that's a personal thing tho, and the public will probably never have the whole story there either.
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Until one of said family members decides the billion dollar trust fund isn't enough, and writes a tell all book.

You know it'll happen.
 
The author has guts to wrote a whole article about it. Though, does this means that the level of Jobs-worshipping has soar to incredible heights after his death?
 
Ruoh said:
Until one of said family members decides the billion dollar trust fund isn't enough, and writes a tell all book.

You know it'll happen.
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I dunno, wife probably won't and the children aren't that old so at worst they may resent his work hours... The one ex and the daugher he denied for years is another story.

Maybe I'm not cynical enough... I was talking with my sister (who's not much of a geek and I doubt knows a lot about Jobs), and I'm telling her how it was kind of a curious coincidence that he died like a day or two after the next iPhone came out. First thing she said was "you really think they were gonna announce it before the launch if he died earlier?". :eek:

The next cruel thought that entered my mind was... Well, maybe the lukewarm reception to the new model did him in. :eek: Tho frankly it's a great hardware refresh for iOS.
 
Steve said:
The author of this editorial is going to make a lot of Apple fans upset by pointing out all the bad things Steve Jobs was known for. Too soon?
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No, the whitewashing of people's life story upon their death for "politeness" is exceptionally troubling, and the case of whitewashing Steve Jobs that is occurring is no different. He was a horrible person to a large number of people who worked for him, interacted with him, and suffered because of him. His is a legacy that only through rose colored glasses would cast him as being considered a "great man" in anything other than driving Apple's share price in the later part of his life. In the end he may have been great for Apple, but his legacy of leading Apple to ever higher share price should never stand as an accounting of his life. He made his choices and he lived his life his way but don't confuse that with living it the right or decent way.
 
I also heard he kick dogs whenever possible!!

cat-dog-kick.jpg
(photo representation of Steve Jobs kicking a dog if a photo of Steve Jobs kicking a dog existed)

Didn't know when famous people died everyone has to IMMEDIATELY bring up all of that person's negatives, all the rotten stuff they did when alive or good stuff they should have done. Certainly people who achieve great things and have very high standards are often blind to their own weaknesses and faults, and perhaps often get a "God-like" mentality which makes it easy to berate and belittle others around them, and blind to the rest of the world, that what they are doing IS the most important thing they should be doing right now. I am sure, to a large degree, whatever made Jobs great as a businessman, a marketer, a creative thinker also made him an a$$, a manipulator, an egomaniac, a demanding jerk, a know-it-all who was never wrong (certainly in his own mind and that he often wasn't wrong in the real world just added fuel to his fire). A lot of these same things have been said about the Oakland Raiders' owner Al Davis who died this past weekend as well as many other influential and "great" people.

Like the Good and Evil Kirk, they can't exist apart from each other. Jobs, being in the spotlight, meant that both his positives and negatives were going to be over-exaggerated and blown out of proportion. But what ever made Jobs a world class jerk probably also made him a person who will be remember for a very long time for his contribution to technology.

He certainly wasn't any different than any of us. He wasn't a perfect person.. he wasn't a saint but doubtful that then made him a sinner. He was a human being with flaws but had an amazing drive to succeed in what he did. Maybe that single mindedness of purpose that Jobs had came at a cost.. perhaps a cost in his personal life, in his character, in his health. Woz said that Jobs accomplished every goal he set for himself. Isn't that in our lives the most we could hope for. And aren't we all fortunate that Jobs set very high goals for himself and that all of us have been the benefactors of Jobs succeeding in his goals.

I kind of remember an episode of a "Twilight Zone" type of show from the 80s or 90s, in which this Elvis impersonator goes back in time to try and keep Elvis from making the mistakes he would eventually make.. but then Elvis dies before getting famous so this guy takes over for Elvis and he ends up making the same mistakes that Elvis did. I am sure we all would like to think we would have behaved differently if we were "quantum leaped" into Steve Jobs shoes. Maybe some of us would have but I have a feeling most of us would have ended up behaving very similar to Jobs. I had a boss once who, when being criticized by others over a certain plan or a course of action, would say "Where were you when the paper was blank?" We all know what Steve Jobs did with his "blank piece of paper".
 
I think it is a somewhat humorous statement about our consumerist culture that Jobs is being talked about to this extent.
 
Apple could get nuked out of the globe and the world would easily survive... Maybe we'd end up paying $30 / month for music subscription services depending on at what point in history you erased Apple, but that'd be the worst of it. People are definitely going a bit overboard with regards to the comparisons of other great losses.
 
Impulse said:
I was talking with my sister (who's not much of a geek and I doubt knows a lot about Jobs), and I'm telling her how it was kind of a curious coincidence that he died like a day or two after the next iPhone came out.
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Jobs died on my sister's birthday. The bitch has always gotten presents better than mine.
 
Not sure what the big deal is, the guy is keeping it real.

Yes, Jobs was a visionary and an excellent CEO in terms of increasing stock value for Apple shareholders, but he was also kind of a dick.
 
Does it really matter?

The guys is dead, 6 feet under. You can say anything and really... well he is dead. Not going to hear it and definetly won't care.

For us? I am sure most of us have real life issues that they can say anything about Steve, I myself put my don't care face on and move on.....
 
Impulse said:
AFAIK he died of pancreatic cancer no? I dunno what operation he did or didn't put off, but the odds for surviving that are terrible regardless.
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They're not terrible - they're non-existent. You don't survive Pancreatic Cancer. Period.
 
I guess you could say he almost represents everything that is wrong with a consumerist based society.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
No, the whitewashing of people's life story upon their death for "politeness" is exceptionally troubling, and the case of whitewashing Steve Jobs that is occurring is no different. He was a horrible person to a large number of people who worked for him, interacted with him, and suffered because of him. His is a legacy that only through rose colored glasses would cast him as being considered a "great man" in anything other than driving Apple's share price in the later part of his life. In the end he may have been great for Apple, but his legacy of leading Apple to ever higher share price should never stand as an accounting of his life. He made his choices and he lived his life his way but don't confuse that with living it the right or decent way.
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Define "horrible". And please don't bother if your definition is "hurt feelings".

Oh, also, please define for us unwashed masses what is the "right or decent way" to live.

Steve Jobs didn't owe anything to anyone. Period.
 
If you want to consider how "good" steve jobs was or wasn't, think about how many people are employed by the most valuable company in the world. Think about how many people he has empowered through their jobs that otherwise might not even HAVE a job.

The economic benefit from Apple touches hundreds of thousands of people, including the Chinese workers who are likely earning 5 times as much as most Chinese.
 
I was always interested in the genesis of personal computer in the 1970s and have read quite a bit about the people on the cutting edge then. Everything I read about Jobs was negative. People admired him for his drive, but he was a despicable asshole to people constantly berating them and treating them like dirt. And from all accounts that didn't change even though he had one foot in the grave. People like that don't find themselves in heaven when they died.
 
Impulse said:
Yeah, questionable company policies and shady outsourced production facilities aside, the fact that he damn near worked until the day he died is pretty disturbing. I mean, I guess I'd like to be able to do what I like for as long as I can too, but the guy has several young children...
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This. Instead of spending time with family, you make sure Apple sells a few million more iPads? Really? Tells me the guy was not fully right in the head.
 
He represents the typical corporate magnate who has built a company from the ground up. There is little difference between Jobs and others like Gates, Rupert Murdoch, Michael Dell, etc. They all have their ideas and ways to implement them, are petty, have large egos and are prone to ranting and raving. Ideologically, I find them all pretty stereotypical. Jobs is no different. He could have redeemed himself with the public by being philanthropic along the lines of Bill Gates, but I suspect his childhood had a part to play in that decision.
 
matt9669 said:
This. Instead of spending time with family, you make sure Apple sells a few million more iPads? Really? Tells me the guy was not fully right in the head.
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I never understood why guys like that even have families. If you're married to your job then why marry a woman and have kids?
 
MajorDomo said:
He represents the typical corporate magnate who has built a company from the ground up. There is little difference between Jobs and others like Gates, Rupert Murdoch, Michael Dell, etc. They all have their ideas and ways to implement them, are petty, have large egos and are prone to ranting and raving. Ideologically, I find them all pretty stereotypical. Jobs is no different. He could have redeemed himself with the public by being philanthropic along the lines of Bill Gates, but I suspect his childhood had a part to play in that decision.
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..and in the end.. how much does he take with him to whatever after life he believes in? All those billions, now part of his estate to be contested by god knows who.

The same way he came to existance is same way he went out. Nada, Zero, Zilch, Zip, nothing. All the money now goes to his kin.
 
Hulahoops said:
I guess you could say he almost represents everything that is wrong with a consumerist based society.
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To have a consumerist society, you need those that desire to consume.

IronChef75 said:
Jobs died on my sister's birthday. The bitch has always gotten presents better than mine.
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That wins the tasteless award for the thread. Bonus points if you actually meant it.*

Paul_Johnson said:
No, the whitewashing of people's life story upon their death for "politeness" is exceptionally troubling, and the case of whitewashing Steve Jobs that is occurring is no different. He was a horrible person to a large number of people who worked for him, interacted with him, and suffered because of him. His is a legacy that only through rose colored glasses would cast him as being considered a "great man" in anything other than driving Apple's share price in the later part of his life. In the end he may have been great for Apple, but his legacy of leading Apple to ever higher share price should never stand as an accounting of his life. He made his choices and he lived his life his way but don't confuse that with living it the right or decent way.
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Paul, I will give you credit --you said what you said above from an intelligent, mature, tactful perspective, more so than many here, including ]H]Staff. I don't consider Jobs a great man myself, though I'll give him credit as an innovator, designer, and pitch-man. However, that brings us into defining what living "the right or decent way" really means. One thing I think it doesn't mean is (not indicating you here, as I haven't seen you do that and I respect you for it) is rejoicing in a puerile way at someone's death simply because you didn't like them or their company. In comparison, I dislike Meg Whitman, Carly Fiorina, and a number of other high-profile people related to tech companies. Like Jobs, I won't shed a tear at their passing --but I won't be out peeing on their graves, either.

*example of sarcasm, for those who do not understand it
 
I was always taught "It's not proper to speak ill of the dead."

So when commenting on Steve Jobs life, I said "He was a marketing genious that caused competition and innovation among competitors"

I didn't mention the other aspects of his life out of respect.

True or not, it's not proper.

BTW: I wonder how many of those "Occupy Wall St." protestors have iPhones and iPods, and MacBooks etc... lol

Those protestors hate people like him, but wouldn't bat a lash to buy his product at inflated prices.
 
deadrody said:
If you want to consider how "good" steve jobs was or wasn't, think about how many people are employed by the most valuable company in the world. Think about how many people he has empowered through their jobs that otherwise might not even HAVE a job.

The economic benefit from Apple touches hundreds of thousands of people, including the Chinese workers who are likely earning 5 times as much as most Chinese.
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And would you be so forgiving it was Bill Gates that recently passed away or would you, and all the other Mac fanatics be pouring out every ounce of bile and venom you could muster?
 
I know a couple of people I went to school with that ended up working at Apple at various times, and the ones that had anything to do with Jobs all said he was a megalomaniac. A damn brilliant one at that. ;)
 
Steve said:
The author of this editorial is going to make a lot of Apple fans upset by pointing out all the bad things Steve Jobs was known for. Too soon? Thanks to [H] forum member Sly and everyone else that sent this one in.
Click to expand...

Bill Gates would fight and scream at Paul Allen all the time.
Guess you didnt read Pauls book I take it.

Human beings are just that, human beings make mistakes.
 
Hate Apple, hate Steve Jobs... who cares.

Great article, hope some of the Apple fanbois realize they worshipped a scumbag finally. Probably won't and will all go buy an iPhone 4s because sheeps follow.
 
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