What Drives are We Putting in our NAS systems These Days?

Discussion in 'SSDs & Data Storage' started by Zarathustra[H], Aug 2, 2017.

  1. mnewxcv

    mnewxcv [H]ardness Supreme

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    My experience has been different. Yes, most drives that survive the first month seem to last for years. But after 3 years you never really know. That is when I've had smart errors start popping up leading to replacing the drive. Wd greens, Seagate barracuda, hgst drives in the 3-8 year range have all exhibited this. Not all my drives, but all those brands that Ive owned at one point or another.
     
  2. WhoBeDaPlaya

    WhoBeDaPlaya 2[H]4U

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    I use that as a convenient excuse to up to the next level of storage density.
    My duplicate HTPCs more or less went from 2TB -> 4TB -> 8TB.
    Waiting on the Ultrastar He10 (or better yet He12) to make its debut in externals to be shucked :)
     
  3. RFOneWatt

    RFOneWatt n00bie

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    It sounds like your experience has been just about exactly the same, actually. :)

    5-8 years is a LONG, long time for 24/7 moving parts!

    The one thing I have noticed is that the enterprise (10-15k RPM) drives are not to be trusted after three years of typical 24/7 data-center usage. Three years seems to be the beginning of the end for those puppies.

    ~RF
     
  4. Jorona

    Jorona 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, I agree.

    If it lasts the first 3 months, it'll be fine for about 3 years. If it passes the three year mark, it'll be fine for another three years. 6 years drives get replaced regardless. HDDs just seem to have a 3 year cycle for me.
     
  5. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    So, I still haven't bough my next drives.

    I plan on limiting the pain by buying two at a time, once per pay period and inserting them in my ZFS Pool and rebuilding, with the intent of having the pool grow once the last drives have been rebuilt.

    The added benefit of this should be different shipping ever time, and possibly different lots, so there is less of a chance of multiples going bad at once.

    I am currently leaning towards the last gen HGST HE8 8TB drives. While slower than the latest enterprise drives, they are 7200rpm and ought to be a nice upgrade over my 4TB WD Reds.

    Once done, my old WD Reds will go into my secondary server and be used for backup. Hopefully I can find some affordable colocation or somewhere else to stash it too.

    I'll probably create a single large RAIDz3 vdev with 11 disks for those (3 drive redundancy due to the drives being older) with 12 drives in the system overall, one as a hot spare.
     
  6. EnderW

    EnderW [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Same here. I chose these because they were cheap and 5400 RPM which I prefer in a NAS thats limited by network speeds anyway. Lower heat and vibration than 7200 RPM drives.
     
  7. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Well, I'm going to have to lean away from those HE8's.

    The ones for sale on Amazon right now at a very competitive price are OEM drives and thus lack the 5 year HGST warranty.

    The seller offers their own 2 year warranty, but it seems sketchy to me.

    Back to the drawing board on this one.

    I'd love to go with HE10's but the price is a bit hefty for me
     
  8. SpeedyVV

    SpeedyVV [H]ardness Supreme

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    In my 30+ years with mechanical drives is if I for some reason stop doing backups, then they will die!
     
  9. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Well, I decided to increase my budget.

    I have the first two of 12 total Seagate Enterprise 10TB Helium drives (ST10000NM0016) coming my way soon. Ordered them last night, probably won't be here until at the earliest Sunday, but more likely probably early next week.

    Now I have a discussion on testing going on here.
     
  10. IceDigger

    IceDigger [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Nothing but SAS drives. Don't trust consumer products anymore.
     
  11. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    There are plenty of Enterprise SATA drives these these days
     
  12. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah but you don't want those whiny things in your living room. Some of us prefer to live in a nice home than a data lab.:)
     
  13. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    That's why I keep my servers and networking hardware out of earshot in my basement :p

    Only time this ever became a problem was with my HP DL180 G6 which was just too damned loud even for the basement.



    I measured it at over 100dB...
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
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  14. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    So, I just received my first two Seagate Enterprise 10TB Helium 7200rpm SATA drives last night.

    These are possibly the quietest drives I've ever heard. I can't even hear them over the flourescent bulbs in my basement.

    The spinning is entirely silent to me. The tickets of the seeks are a little louder, but not terrible.
     
  15. jad0083

    jad0083 [H]Lite

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    Just curious, what storageOS/FS are you going to use with those 12x 10TB drives? ZFS, hardware Raid?
     
  16. TeeJayHoward

    TeeJayHoward Limpness Supreme

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    I think my next upgrade will be vertical scaling. I'll still use 2TB SAS drives, I'll just get another chassis and set 'em up as direct-attached storage.
     
  17. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Sounds (ha) promising!
     
  18. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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  19. Valnar

    Valnar [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't understand the OP's question. You mean OTHER than an HGST drive? Because honestly, why would you consider anything else.
     
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  20. WhoBeDaPlaya

    WhoBeDaPlaya 2[H]4U

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    WTF are they using in those? Dozens of black-label Deltas?!
     
  21. jwcalla

    jwcalla 2[H]4U

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    Are there any 5400 RPM HGSTs these days? I feel like they've stopped making them.

    So has anybody stepped up and tried to do an all-SSD NAS or is that just too hardcore still? It doesn't seem like capacity is moving much in the SSD world. And it would probably need a 10 GbE network.
     
  22. WhoBeDaPlaya

    WhoBeDaPlaya 2[H]4U

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    Kind of. The WD white-label and Red-labelled 8TBs are 5400rpm versions of the UltraStar He8.
     
  23. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Worse, IMHO.

    IMG_20171021_135205.jpg

    IMG_20171021_135233.jpg

    There are 8 60mm fans in a 2x4 redundant arrangement, each capable of 14k RPM.
     
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  24. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Well,

    HGST certainly has the best reputation for reliability by far, but they just didn't work out for me.

    After looking at WD Red's since I have had good experiences with my current WD reds, and deciding they were overpriced for what they were, I started by looking into Ultrastars but according to my research they didn't seem to have the ability to set a shorter time on error recovery like you want for drives in RAID, so I decided against them.

    Then I was looking at HGST's last gen HE8 Enterprise drives. They were priced great, but I found that all of the ones you can find now are OEM drives and don't carry HGST's 5 year warranty, so I decided against them as well.

    Then I looked at HGST's HE10 8TB drives, but they aerw just too damned expensive. They cost more than the Seagate Enterprise v6 10TB Helium drives, so I wound up going withthem instead.

    After years of hearing how much Seagate drives suck, I have to admit, they were my last choice, but I figured that most of Seagate's troubles must be behind them at this point. That, and their Enterprise drives can't possibly have the same reliability problems as their much maligned desktop drives have had over the years. I have good redundancy in my ZFS pool (2x RAIDz2 pools) so if any of them fail, I should be able to quickly swap and resilver.


    I was wary of 7200rom drives as well, as they used to be noisy, hot and use lots of power. This new generation of helium drives seems to change all that though. As mentioned previously, I have one running badblocks in the basement, and I literally can not hear the thing over the slight 60hz hum of the fluorescent bulbs down there.. I think they are actually quieter than my 4TB WD Red's at 5400rpm. Their spec sheet suggests they use less power too, if I recall.

    My current 12 drive ZFS pool of 5400rpm WD Reds is enough to saturate two to three gigabit ethernet connections at the same time, and can hit sequential speeds of ~950MB/s reads.

    If all you have is gigabit, even 7200rpm is overkill.

    All SSD NAS:es may be slightly more responsive, but yeah, a complete waste IMHO, unless you have some sort of local mega enterprise database sitting ontop of it or something. For a filer like my own, it would make absolutely no sense, especially considering the outrageous cost it would take to go to the 12x 10TB capacity I am going for :p